Open 642 - The Woodshed - Game Over

[PantherPunt]

FYI M&M was a hydra of Postie and Radiant Cowbells. Town Mafioso (their sub) was an alt of some unknown account. Slot inhabitant #3 is TBD.

I just went back to OP and noticed that actually when I realized they aren't in current VC (VC seems incorrect by the way - there was a vote on Ranger just before it)

what an ugly game activity wise

[mhsmith0]

Yes but at least you get to enjoy round two of "Is BTD6 mislynch bait or wolf", always a super fun game to play

[PantherPunt]

Yes but at least you get to enjoy round two of "Is BTD6 mislynch bait or wolf", always a super fun game to play

you're not a top mafia player until you learn to discern this. it's seriously the hardest thing about playing on this site
for what it's worth, my initial reaction was wolfy for 57 because he sells his own reads short as if to give himself the option to move away from them or dismiss them if questioned. but I went and looked at Open 644 and he called his own reads 'weak' four times on day 1 so it appears to not be a scumtell on him personally

it's villagery perspective from you either way and I feel pretty good about identifying you from a perspective standpoint so I'm curious to see what your questions look like whenever I make it to your posts

I get to play monday morning quarterback already knowing IV's alignment as I go through, but he's my strongest village read through 5 pages and I have a mild one on Alexcellent, seems to now be Titus slot, for 123 and 124.

I, like others, laughed at Ranger's read list she dropped in 92 bc it looked so much like her early ones from STD (namely the town read on Shadow) and am taking note on who else is incredulous with that Alpaca read. feel like there could be a w/w interaction like that purely based on how ridiculous it was of Ranger but at the very least I think it makes Alpaca/Ranger not w/w considering Alpaca's reaction and Ranger's apparent propensity to just TMI a townread early for an incredibly stupid reason

irrelevant to this game but related wolfmeta - are you familiar with the legend of Yates?

[mhsmith0]

Somewhat, in terms of the key points (I think - unless there was sketchy stuff beyond just the cheating). Some of it I got from Visorslash's "how to play mafia like a champion" (which was awesome). Also Yates's last game (CHEESE - he was wolf and got banned while playing) was the one right before Fruit Salad, so I'd skimmed that before /in'ing.

[mhsmith0]

you're not a top mafia player until you learn to discern this. it's seriously the hardest thing about playing on this site

Yeah it's one of my big town game weaknesses (accurately finding other town is another one). A big moral victory for me came in Newbie 1691, where Eggman looked terrible most of the game, and was constantly under pressure, and I correctly ID'd him as town mostly because the cases against him were consistently garbage.

Of course I also drove a mislynch on Ircher that game, and then when Almost50 subbed for Eggman he was so utterly horrific that I mislynched him too ... but at least I bagged KAAG first to avoid the sweep (and I HATE, HATE losing to scum sweeps - I now have three such losses, though Open 635 kinda doesn't count since I subbed in at MYLO and was neither on the ML wagon nor was ML'd).

[PantherPunt]

Somewhat, in terms of the key points (I think - unless there was sketchy stuff beyond just the cheating). Some of it I got from Visorslash's "how to play mafia like a champion" (which was awesome). Also Yates's last game (CHEESE - he was wolf and got banned while playing) was the one right before Fruit Salad, so I'd skimmed that before /in'ing.

ok so you're familiar with the cheating - checking scum PTs as a sitemod to be fully informed.

my issue was that I always thought he was a wolf for giving asinine villager reads on people for ridiculous things. it just looked like pure blatant TMI to have a villager read and no paranoia over something that should never ever be alignment indicative let alone something that produced a high confidence in alignment indication. except he'd turn out to be a villager who just had wolf levels of information

my point is that Ranger appears to have that TMI problem that's wolf indicative

I will say that 134 gave me towny vibes in terms of the construction of the wall against RC appearing as though she believed what she was saying. but when comparing the conviction of that read vs where she had her vote and the utter farce that was her justification for the vote on IV, the post turns out to ring very hollow

and actually as I think about that post more I have to refer back to our game we just finished I have a thought about her and percentages

and too bad I don't have to solve IV because he NAILED my thoughts on the "don't know if scum have daytalk" thing Ranger said. when I get suspicious something could mean something dependent on whether or not there's daytalk, I check OP then make up my mind then post. the way in which she made that post seemed forced as she followed up her own post with the "oh they don't have daytalk it's in OP" which screams fake LAMIST

[PantherPunt]

you're not a top mafia player until you learn to discern this. it's seriously the hardest thing about playing on this site

Yeah it's one of my big town game weaknesses (accurately finding other town is another one). A big moral victory for me came in Newbie 1691, where Eggman looked terrible most of the game, and was constantly under pressure, and I correctly ID'd him as town mostly because the cases against him were consistently garbage.

Of course I also drove a mislynch on Ircher that game, and then when Almost50 subbed for Eggman he was so utterly horrific that I mislynched him too ... but at least I bagged KAAG first to avoid the sweep (and I HATE, HATE losing to scum sweeps - I now have three such losses, though Open 635 kinda doesn't count since I subbed in at MYLO and was neither on the ML wagon nor was ML'd).

not gonna lie I thought your constant references to other games and other players was wolfy last game but didn't voice that specifically. if that game wasn't over yet I'd be skeptical of you here but it appears to just be a smith thing. Plotti does it too

idk why - the anecdotes feel like buddying the thread in having something to talk about that's either relatable to someone or is otherwise just a "I learned X in Y situation" so look how I'm applying my experiences to 'solve'

gonna ignore it I guess but maybe less of that is more

[PantherPunt]

Alexcellent (Titus) not a wolf if Ranger is and probably vice versa as well for the bottom of 147. you don't agree with a bro that way you agree with a villager you're looking to buddy

I feel like I'm running away with a Ranger wolf read and want to keep pushing but I have to drive home. will continue catching up at home but hate doing it without taking notes so if I do, I'm either posting everything as I go or just holding off until tomorrow morning

[mhsmith0]

Personally I thought 134 was weirdly oversold. Talked about it more at 602. You'll get there eventually. Still kinda annoyed that the board showed zero curiosity in what I was thinking there before I had to spell it out for everyone.

Also

No, I mean the mhsmith that is town I know will post all angles, IN THREAD, on all players. All of them. And with a very low level of confidence, weakly select the ones he thinks are more likely to be true.

was pretty rich coming right in the middle of 644 and my game-long over-confident tunnel on ploben.

[PantherPunt]

Personally I thought 134 was weirdly oversold. Talked about it more at 602. You'll get there eventually. Still kinda annoyed that the board showed zero curiosity in what I was thinking there before I had to spell it out for everyone.

Also

No, I mean the mhsmith that is town I know will post all angles, IN THREAD, on all players. All of them. And with a very low level of confidence, weakly select the ones he thinks are more likely to be true.

was pretty rich coming right in the middle of 644 and my game-long over-confident tunnel on ploben.

Assuming that's a Ranger post

what do you think of her change in confidence? I went back to the VC where I replaced in and saw her make some post about having no idea where to vote or something along those lines. far cry from what I'm reading on her 100% scum IV read and 95% MM read. I have a thought on it but am want you to weigh in first

[mhsmith0]

I honestly don't know. My gut says it's becuase she has no idea where she can productively push a mislynch (and/or doesn't want to blatantly over-push another "100%" mislynch wagon), but it's plausible as a town "fuck it I don't know and I'm not going to BS a read I don't have" perspective. I don't think it's a particularly AI moment.

PS Yes that was a Ranger post. It was the sort of thing that sounds like it's well thought out, but when you get down to actually thinking about it, is really superficial (since it was based on a game where I was in for like 72 hours, excluding site downtime, before the final mislynch came in). Even on its own it pinged (who makes THAT specific a meta read on someone based on THAT little meta together, especially when she was IC in a newbie game when I was actually a wolf [though she'd died before i subbed in]?), but now knowing she was wolf in 644, it pings even harder.

[PantherPunt]

I honestly don't know. My gut says it's becuase she has no idea where she can productively push a mislynch (and/or doesn't want to blatantly over-push another "100%" mislynch wagon), but it's plausible as a town "fuck it I don't know and I'm not going to BS a read I don't have" perspective. I don't think it's a particularly AI moment.

PS Yes that was a Ranger post. It was the sort of thing that sounds like it's well thought out, but when you get down to actually thinking about it, is really superficial (since it was based on a game where I was in for like 72 hours, excluding site downtime, before the final mislynch came in). Even on its own it pinged (who makes THAT specific a meta read on someone based on THAT little meta together, especially when she was IC in a newbie game when I was actually a wolf [though she'd died before i subbed in]?), but now knowing she was wolf in 644, it pings even harder.

lol that you were a wolf in that newbie

the entire meta read is backwards. reminds me of "Panther is scum because he KNOWS I am able to provide zero content reads as town" that just had me bertstaring at the screen and lost as to how nobody else saw that she was arguing that she only does that in one alignment. still getting lols from that post as I recall it

[PantherPunt]

had a quick skim of your ISO smith for questions and while some gave me some pause for their superficiality (I got kind of entrenched in the grouping from the latter 400s to 600) I think the tone in 511 is indicative of what I've just seen from you and I like 556 despite disagreeing with your issue there

do you feel your wolf game has progressed since fruit salad and if so, in what way in particular

[PantherPunt]

ok I've stayed at work an extra half hour dicking around on this game I'm actually out

[mhsmith0]

lol that you were a wolf in that newbie

?

the entire meta read is backwards. reminds me of "Panther is scum because he KNOWS I am able to provide zero content reads as town" that just had me bertstaring at the screen and lost as to how nobody else saw that she was arguing that she only does that in one alignment. still getting lols from that post as I recall it

FWIW that back and forth did a pretty decent job convincing me that you really were just reading her for stuff that's Ranger-specific and not necessarily AI for her, which made me think it was basically just a vendetta.

do you feel your wolf game has progressed since fruit salad and if so, in what way in particular

I think it actually regressed from fruit salad for a while. I just kept doing worse and worse (nothing like continuing to get quick-lynched to kill your wolfing confidence) and it hit rock bottom at Micro 610. Star Fox was nice because I had a lot of fun in wolf chat and somehow survived despite being pretty obv!wolf with a terrible fake cop claim. Then newbie 1714 was nice because I could slide right into an ongoing town meltdown and win basically by PR hunting at night and not fucking up during the day. Overall I think I can probably do a decent job disguising my active lurking when I'm around players who don't know me. I don't know if I can do a decent job imitating my town game.

[PantherPunt]

lol that you were a wolf in that newbie

?

was the town metaread she gave of you above not from the game you were a wolf in? as in the meta read is backwards
maybe I misunderstood you but please clarify as this is kind of important to my thoughts on her

the entire meta read is backwards. reminds me of "Panther is scum because he KNOWS I am able to provide zero content reads as town" that just had me bertstaring at the screen and lost as to how nobody else saw that she was arguing that she only does that in one alignment. still getting lols from that post as I recall it

FWIW that back and forth did a pretty decent job convincing me that you really were just reading her for stuff that's Ranger-specific and not necessarily AI for her, which made me think it was basically just a vendetta.

wat? the push on her was to get her to kick her ass into gear. it got her ass kicked into gear and her push back on me made it abundantly clear she wasn't playing form a town perspective. I'm actually trying to be cautious here about vendetta lynching her and if anything am gun shy and fearful I'm just going to make anything she does fit her scum play. I'll have a better picture once I'm through more than 6-7 pages

do you feel your wolf game has progressed since fruit salad and if so, in what way in particular

I think it actually regressed from fruit salad for a while. I just kept doing worse and worse (nothing like continuing to get quick-lynched to kill your wolfing confidence) and it hit rock bottom at Micro 610. Star Fox was nice because I had a lot of fun in wolf chat and somehow survived despite being pretty obv!wolf with a terrible fake cop claim. Then newbie 1714 was nice because I could slide right into an ongoing town meltdown and win basically by PR hunting at night and not fucking up during the day. Overall I think I can probably do a decent job disguising my active lurking when I'm around players who don't know me. I don't know if I can do a decent job imitating my town game.

didn't get anything out of this : /
but not sure I needed to

[mhsmith0]

was the town metaread she gave of you above not from the game you were a wolf in? as in the meta read is backwards
maybe I misunderstood you but please clarify as this is kind of important to my thoughts on her

No, the town meta read was from open 635, where I was town. It was just a VERY specific meta read, which is weird since she'd ALSO seen me as wolf (given that she was actually following along as IC after her death - dead chat in that game was pretty dead but showed some level of following along). The super-cautiousness with my vote is pretty consistent with my MYLO/LYLO town play, but not necessarily consistent with my town play generally.

It's just weird to develop that specific of a meta read of me from a very small sample size, and then especially weird given that she was playing with me in a different game where I wasn't exhibiting the whole "with a very low level of confidence, weakly select the ones he thinks are more likely to be true" bit, and it hadn't pinged her there at all (at the time I was town-reading her in 644, but the fact that she was scum and had actual knowledge that I was very probably not the one unknown traitor slot only makes the read here even more suspicious to me).

[Quaroath]

For transparency, I missed a vote in the prior count (DGB's) It is now corrected.


Xkfyu replaces Town Mafioso

We are full!

Deadline will be 7/23 @ 10pm PST.

[Titus]

Holy crap. Shit ton walls. Will read later.

[innocentvillager]

YAY this game is alive again

With an almost completely different playerlist...

[Ranger]

@ranger:when is the last time you've been this openly unsure and without decent guesses in a town game?

Almost all of them. Most obviously, Anything Upick. It didn't last too terribly long, but post-Magna lynch, you could see it in DC Dual Universe UPick as well. While I died N1, in Newbie 1714, rather than continuing to be engaged in the game after my death, I...well, you know. Wasn't.
I mean, that's all the completed games within the last couple of months where it's happened, but that's also all of my completed town games, save for two: the mod-abandoned diffusion of power, and greatest idea. (The rest of my recently-completed games are all scumgames.) Even in Greatest Idea, where I nailed the scum, my engagement wasn't the highest.

I meant what I said. I need to take a break from mafia to recuperate my energy.

I own Ranger's soul so if she is mafia here too I fully expect her to shut down in fear

Yeah about that.

[Ranger]

Yes but at least you get to enjoy round two of "Is BTD6 mislynch bait or wolf", always a super fun game to play

Speaking of which, that would be the reason why I don't think he's scum here.

I had the benefit of knowing he was town in that game, while he was simultaneously in both that game and this game.
Basically my reads at this point can be summed up as:
I don't think DrippingGoofball is scum.
I lean against BTD6_maker being scum.
Titus is the next-highest, at ambivalence.
The rest of the playerlist is equally muddy and blurry to me, below the null line.

That's it.

my point is that Ranger appears to have that TMI problem that's wolf indicative

Guess what I have, or had, since I'm unable to keep doing it in my current condition, a reputation for doing?

I need a break to recover my strength, but there's a reason I got nominated for best town scumhunter: seeing information is just something I normally

do

.

was pretty rich coming right in the middle of 644 and my game-long over-confident tunnel on ploben.

Guess what game I was referring to?
You were not focusing on just ploben.

You were focusing on all the players and all the angles there, too.

I didn't, 100%, know you were town there. And your play was not a carbon copy of JK9++, so I wasn't absolutely sure. But at the time I made that comment, I was firmly convinced you were town (that comment came during D2 in stack the deck if I recall correctly, where I had absolutely zero thoughts about you being a traitor), and was more referring to you THERE than in JK9++.

So, I stand by my statement.
This version of you is not like Stack The Deck.
This version of you is not like JK9++.

My gut says it's becuase she has no idea where she can productively push a mislynch (and/or doesn't want to blatantly over-push another "100%" mislynch wagon)

Yeah, this is BS.
You'd have a better argument that I am scum,

faking

not having confidence, because it was "destroyed".
That is plausible. Don't think I've ever done it before, but it certainly sounds like something I would do.

But because I legitimately wouldn't know where to push?

No.

[mhsmith0]

So... (Adding in #s)

No, I mean the mhsmith that is town I know will
1)post all angles, IN THREAD, on all players. All of them.
2)And with a very low level of confidence, weakly select the ones he thinks are more likely to be true.

So you basically made two points here.

2) I'm sorry but this is a terrible meta read on me. As you said, it came during 644, which means you had ample evidence that this was NOT the case (other evidence includes most of my town games, all posted on my wiki entry).
This is the specific part that looks flat out made up, and I'm honestly curious how you think that meta read coincides w 644. Other than in lylo/mylo in a hammer game (and feel free to look at plague mafia for how I handle lylo/mylo in a mom hammer game where a single bad vote can't immediately lose the game).

1) what specific angles and/or which players do you think I was avoiding in this game?

[BTD6_maker]

Mod, V/LA until 9th July. My Internet is unpredictable here. I will still try to be active when I can, though.

Anyway, still nothing from Ranger about why it was the best option to self-vote. If there is no reply we need to seriously consider Mhsmith's idea, that Ranger was just trying to deliberately avoid being lynched by self-voting, and in that case we must consider lynching Ranger.

VOTE: Ranger

I am fairly sure that at least one of Ranger/Mhsmith is scum now.

[mhsmith0]

Looks like btd6 is shamelessly bandwagoning again.

@ranger: you were pinged really hard by iv's "ranger or m&m I'd likely scum". Why does btd6's even lazier reprisal of this (and this is the like third time they've done it too) draw no interest or comment from you?