Open 646 - Semi Nightless - Game Over (D6)

[Transcend]

Your reads parallel heavily with mine Tenshii just in a different order

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your fos on Thor feels more OMGUS-y than anything. And as a newer player, I'd expect that from you. I tend to notice lots of newer town players fosing people that directly attack them since they know they're town and they know they're under attack. They think that scum is taking a bite at them instead of town being incorrect about them.

I don't necessarily agree with the case from Thor myself, but I don't exactly see the attack as a scum-motivated attack? Like it could be, but right now I just lean on him being wrong. Hence why I've said the interactions between you two are TVT.

Which leaves Rosske. I don't think his actions over the course of this game were genuine. I think he vote-hopped a few wagons opportunistically (Thor d1, KTS d1, Io d1, KTS d2, Transcend d2/3/4 etc.) I don't feel the votes he made were for genuine reasons, rather tactical ones.

I'll go over each of his votes that come to my mind in memory.

Thor d1: I think KTS was voting Thor at first correct me if wrong. Rosske's reason for voting Thor was pretty good (hence why I followed suit with the light bw that happened on him). However his actions a few posts later indicate that this was just an opportunistic scum-hop from him rather than actually scumreading Thor and it was him cherry-picking two posts and rolling with the punches. All he did to explain the vote on Thor alongside the 2 posts he quoted was say "gut". He did not pursue that wagon really hard at all.

KTS d1: I think Kcda (mhsmith) voted KTS. Rosske votes KTS as well. The reason escapes me why either of them voted KTS but memory serves that it was a bad vote. He never explained his vote on KTS to my memory, and the person who he voted with when he voted Thor was KTS. So Rosske never explains that his read on Thor changed at all, so he voted the person who he voted with without stating that his mind on Thor changed. Now this is the part I think is damning, but I'm going to safely dismiss this part as null for right now since it can go either way is him telling Karnos "Why aren't you voting Thor?".

Scenario A. He's scum questioning his partner's motives
Scenario B. He's scum telling karnos to vote Thor without actually voting Thor himself
Scenario C. He's town who questioned karnos' motives

Again all these scenarios are plausible, so it's best to dismiss that tell as null. But I seriously feel that Rosske was lightly pushing on Thor again and forgot he was voting KTS since he votehopped KTS and then gave no reason to why he voted him.

Io d1: IIRC he evades the KTS/Thor votes, doesn't explain why and then votes Io with karnos. One could say that he's town because why would he associate himself with his clearly ailing partner? There's many reasons why that can be wrong.

Reason A. With karnos lynched, Rosske would have to survive legitimately 5 lynches by himself. Having the support of his partner would help.
Reason B. WIFOM factor. "Oh if I hard buddy my partner they won't suspect me due to associative tells hehehehehe"

Over all throughout the course of d1, Rosske votehopped 3 times (to my memory) and his votes were all fairly neutral votes where he didn't explain his stance that well.

Now we're on d2. He doesn't participate in karnos twilight at all. Which was a period of at least 3 days. I understand that you cannot always be on mafiascum 24/7 but that was a long ass twilight period due to slow host. He posted

zero

times. I didn't pay attention to see if he was on the site during twilight or not (I think that's cheating correct me if wrong). However he claims he wasn't here for twilight. But like I said, Twilight for karnos was a solid 3 days or more and 3 days of inactivity leads to a prod. Prods aren't something that people like very much and people come on and post a brief prod dodgeto avoid prod. Regardless this aspect shouldn't be analyzed too much, but the fact he was not present for twilight is supporting my case even more. And him not also participating in twilight and his next vote are also reasons to support him as scum.

KTS D2: Instantly votes KTS. "You obviously bussed your partner". He says nothing else. He just sheeps what mhsmith/Luna Fox said in twilight for karnos. If you go back to d1 it shows that Rosske voted KTS, but he never explained that reason at all. Throughout either of his votes. So he votehops KTS twice and gives minimal to no reasoning both times. His vote on KTS doesn't last long. This is possibly the case due to him wanting the rest of the town to tear KTS apart while he WK's him and pushes on someone else. This person being yours truly!

Trans D2: KTS votes me, few posts later Rosske votes me too! This time he's been hellbent on my lynch. I think it's justifiable for players to fos me, due to my shitty reads and consistent mood swings. However, the reason this guy foses me is not genuine and sorta hypocritical. He has said that I'm scum for berating several people (which is me all the time as can be seen in several games of mine).He's also said that I'm scum because I've pushed several mislynches. The lynches I pushed for were Luna Fox (yeah this one was probably wrong) where he never said why my push on Luna was scum motivated, and him. I voted mhsmith Thor and Giga in brief periods but I've only tunneled Luna and Rosske. He said that I've coasted by getting several people mislynched. Which is blatantly untrue. I did not get KTS lynched, I didn't get PC lynched. I was advocates for two people. Luna Fox and Rosske only. But he explains that I'm scum for getting KTS and PC lynched. And say, that even if I did get KTS lynched here, why would he fos me for it since he voted KTS twice? This is inconsistent behavior from him.

With all this above and the 5 votes I recall from him being thoroughly explained, this is why I have concluded that Rosske is scum here. I understand you have meta townreads on Rosske, but Ross is a newer player and isn't going to play the same way as both alignments. Take a look at karnos for example. There were some parties (myself, Tenshii) who thought he was newb town. I had meta on him, Tenshii didn't. We were both wrong. We had incorrect meta, even though his game this game replicated the newbie game I played with him. Newer players are gonna get better and begin to play similarly as both alignments much like most of the good players here.

I know I have berated most of you all day, which was probably not the correct way to approach this. But I have for one final time, gone deeply in depth into all of his votes this game (which is most of his content anyways). And I've explained why it makes him the last scum, and why you should ignore meta this time.

[Transcend]

Keep in mind that in 4/5 of the votes I mentioned he was

NOT

the first person to vote on them.

For the KTS vote d2, he was first, but the KTS bw was inevitable and he got a front row seat to that by dodging twilight and voting first.

[Wingback]

Going to get to the recent posts later. In the meantime, I was looking over my ISO in Mini 1800 for mentions of "Karnos" to see why I was defending Karnos (I was town, he was scum) and it seemed so similar to Tenshii's defense of Karnos that it makes me wonder if Tenshii is town after all.

It re-inforces my belief that people who read tone and emotion over pure logic tend to townread Karnos' genuine posting as scum whereas the 100% logic people think he's the scummiest thing that ever existed. I suppose I

could

see Transcend's townread on Karnos as well given he mostly goes by tone although some of his twilight posting still gives me pause.

What I like a lot less about Tenshii is that Thor is right that he spent most of the game pushing a lurker for lurking and barely engaged anyone.

Still need to get through mhsmith's slot:

Starting with kcdaspot's ISO, I see a lot of overblown fake-looking reactions to Thor but it could be just playstyle. He mentions that all of page four is Karnos being bad and scum, finally concluding that Karnos and KTS are the scumteam and voting KTS. I question why he didn't join the Karnos wagon since it was clearly bigger but he says he can settle for a Karnos lynch in Post 247 depending on the VC. Claims he doesn't like the logic for Karnos and phantom being of differing alignments which could be a way to push a phantom lynch after Karnos. The biggest issue I have with him is his paying lip-service to a Karnos scumread but looking pretty intently elsewhere. I find kcda's playstyle off-putting and hard to get alignment-information out of. Going to comb through mhsmith's ISO in-depth to see what I find.

[Rosske]

In response to people saying I voted opportunistically or without reason in day 1.

It's pretty much true. But it doesn't make me scum.

I didn't really have any strong reads on day 1. I jumped onto wagons and cast votes in order to apply pressure and see what would come back to me, in hopes of getting better reads. I wasn't voting for lynches as much as I was voting in search of information.

Totally get while you can scum read me for that, but that's what I was thinking. Part of my scum read on Transcend is in response to how quickly he snapped up scum-looking behavior from me.

[Thor665]

gigabyte finding reasons to discredit my meta is scummy.

You discrediting Gigabyte's analysis is scummy.
Me discrediting your discredit is scummy.

No - Gigabyte's issues with your meta clear are concise, clear, and very valid points - it is not scummy at all.
You not actually discussing the reasoning behind Wing and me rough clearing you is vastly more scummy than what Giga is doing.
Why aren't you discussing your meta?

I look like an easy mislynch.

You are an easy lynch.
Could you do something about that?

I feel like IF transcend is town, he's playing very destructively, and scum could likely use that to fuel their own anti-town motives, and I feel like you're most likely to be guilty of that.

Does that jive with his interactions with Karnos? You think that looks like a bus?

@Rosske - why is it when I ask you a question I don't get a response?
Answer some questions and pretend to be more pro town than Transcend who doesn't look town at all, please and thank you.

[Wingback]

@Thor, would you mind elaborating on your reads on Transcend and mhsmith?

I'm currently reading you, Gigbyte, and Rosske as town. I have Transcend as the most likely scum candidate but I could see it being Tenshii as well. Still need to do an ISO of mhsmith to lock down that read.

[Tenshii]

What does that have to do with anything?
They did make a case based on meta - which is sorta day play, does that not count?
Apparently making a case on Thor for only day play is bad.
So why is it bad they went the other way with Rosske?

Iirc, Rosske's slot was townread due to one nightkill and less than 200 posts for meta. Both of this is the only thing townreading a slot that has 4 days worth of content. I personally find this ridiculous. Especially when Transcend/mhsmith0 concluded that stuff like NKA, Meta, VCA, should all be stuff that support a case and not be the whole case by itself.

[Tenshii]

@Thor When did your read on Transcend flip?

[Thor665]

@Thor, would you mind elaborating on your reads on Transcend and mhsmith?

In what way?
I think mhsmith is mostly town for how he ended up reacting to the Karnos wagon, and his defense of the wagon.
I think Transcend is mostly town for being a ponce.
That's really all I've got.

I'm currently reading you, Gigbyte, and Rosske as town. I have Transcend as the most likely scum candidate but I could see it being Tenshii as well. Still need to do an ISO of mhsmith to lock down that read.

Why do you clear Giga so well?

What does that have to do with anything?
They did make a case based on meta - which is sorta day play, does that not count?
Apparently making a case on Thor for only day play is bad.
So why is it bad they went the other way with Rosske?

Iirc, Rosske's slot was townread due to one nightkill and less than 200 posts for meta. Both of this is the only thing townreading a slot that has 4 days worth of content. I personally find this ridiculous. Especially when Transcend/mhsmith0 concluded that stuff like NKA, Meta, VCA, should all be stuff that support a case and not be the whole case by itself.

Why in the universe should NKA, meta, and VCA not be the whole case?
Like - you had a case yesterday of 'dude is lurking' and thought that was good but a case of 'looking over two games and seeing differences in scum and town play, combined with an analysis of who the scum's kill benefited and hurt makes me town read Rosske for the following evidence reasons (insert specifics)' is "ridiculous"?

That makes no sense as a stance.
Clarify?

@Thor When did your read on Transcend flip?

I dunno, when did you see it flip?
Because my theory belief is it's when I just commented that he wasn't playing pro town a post or two ago (ignoring that I've been saying that about him for weeks) and also ignoring that it is easily possible to think someone is town playing badly and not scum.
So I actually think you're just skimming and asking empty questions.
If it was some other point in the game - outline where I flipped my opinion and I'll explain my reasoning.

[Tenshii]

Like - you had a case yesterday of 'dude is lurking' and thought that was good but a case of 'looking over two games and seeing differences in scum and town play, combined with an analysis of who the scum's kill benefited and hurt makes me town read Rosske for the following evidence reasons (insert specifics)' is "ridiculous"?

Phantom was THE DEFINITION of not being town. His flip is the ONLY thing that made him town. Rosske is a slot who has nothing going for him being town except a night kill and a little bit of meta.

My current townreads are Gigabyte, Thor, and Rosske. Rosske primarily because the Io kill doesn't make sense from him, secondarily because meta points more to him being town but it isn't a strong meta read.

There isn't really much of a meta to go by. I refuse to use ongoing games for meta by principle, I should add.

I don't even think you made a meta case yourself on Rosske. The read was just bandwagoned. So if you can (re?)state why Rosske is a good meta read that'd be great.

I dunno, when did you see it flip?
Because my theory belief is it's when I just commented that he wasn't playing pro town a post or two ago (ignoring that I've been saying that about him for weeks) and also ignoring that it is easily possible to think someone is town playing badly and not scum.
So I actually think you're just skimming and asking empty questions.
If it was some other point in the game - outline where I flipped my opinion and I'll explain my reasoning.

Skimming, nah. But I don't really retain my memory of things that well. REGARDLESS, I think it's very fair for me to assume the possibility of you changing a read. Especially with that wording of "Transcend isn't TOWN AT ALL." Unless you're the type of person who just sticks with a read and locks onto it to oblivion

@Rosske - why is it when I ask you a question I don't get a response?
Answer some questions and pretend to be more pro town than Transcend who doesn't look town at all, please and thank you.

I think Thor scumreads me defending Karnos as either alignment, but I think only scum!Thor lets Transcend and Rosske get away with how they are playing. Also note how still the only thing town reading Thor is him being so bussy.

Requoting for emphasis.

[Tenshii]

Oh, doesn't look town at all*

But the point still stands

[Transcend]

I'm going to be extremely tilted if i typed all that and Rosske survives rope fwiw.

[Thor665]

Phantom was THE DEFINITION of not being town. His flip is the ONLY thing that made him town. Rosske is a slot who has nothing going for him being town except a night kill and a little bit of meta.

If he was the DEFINITION of not being town, why is it when I asked you what the case on him was you said 'lurking'?
Are you lying to me now, or were you lying to me then, or is the DEFINITION of not looking town lurking?

I don't even think you made a meta case yourself on Rosske. The read was just bandwagoned. So if you can (re?)state why Rosske is a good meta read that'd be great.

Sure - I explained my thoughts here; http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p8247424

[quote="In post 1934, Tenshii"Skimming, nah. But I don't really retain my memory of things that well. REGARDLESS, I think it's very fair for me to assume the possibility of you changing a read. Especially with that wording of "Transcend isn't TOWN AT ALL." Unless you're the type of person who just sticks with a read and locks onto it to oblivion

@Rosske - why is it when I ask you a question I don't get a response?
Answer some questions and pretend to be more pro town than Transcend who doesn't look town at all, please and thank you.

I think Thor scumreads me defending Karnos as either alignment, but I think only scum!Thor lets Transcend and Rosske get away with how they are playing. Also note how still the only thing town reading Thor is him being so bussy.

Requoting for emphasis.[/quote]
Yeah, there is, strangely, a difference between how you read someone and how you think they are looking due to playstyle.
I've been talking for literal weeks about how I think Transcend is shooting himself and his team, if he is town, in the foot due to his play.
Oddly the most recent statement of that stance changes nothing more than the previous ten did when it comes to my read on the slot.

[Tenshii]

If he was the DEFINITION of not being town, why is it when I asked you what the case on him was you said 'lurking'?
Are you lying to me now, or were you lying to me then, or is the DEFINITION of not looking town lurking?

Not being town aka Not helping town aka Lurking

I don't get that at all - the only scummy thing I can really see there is maybe him not voting Karnos over it.
Looking at his completed scum game he explained himself a lot more, and stuck to a single position, and didn't vote very quickly.

So do you just assume that Rosske wouldn't explain himself a lot as town? Is this and a night kill really your whole town read on Rosske?

Yeah, there is, strangely, a difference between how you read someone and how you think they are looking due to playstyle.
I've been talking for literal weeks about how I think Transcend is shooting himself and his team, if he is town, in the foot due to his play.
Oddly the most recent statement of that stance changes nothing more than the previous ten did when it comes to my read on the slot.

So then why are you townreading Transcend?

[Rosske]

gigabyte finding reasons to discredit my meta is scummy.

You discrediting Gigabyte's analysis is scummy.
Me discrediting your discredit is scummy.

No - Gigabyte's issues with your meta clear are concise, clear, and very valid points - it is not scummy at all.
You not actually discussing the reasoning behind Wing and me rough clearing you is vastly more scummy than what Giga is doing.
Why aren't you discussing your meta?

I look like an easy mislynch.

You are an easy lynch.
Could you do something about that?

I feel like IF transcend is town, he's playing very destructively, and scum could likely use that to fuel their own anti-town motives, and I feel like you're most likely to be guilty of that.

Does that jive with his interactions with Karnos? You think that looks like a bus?

@Rosske - why is it when I ask you a question I don't get a response?
Answer some questions and pretend to be more pro town than Transcend who doesn't look town at all, please and thank you.

The best way for me to stop looking like an easy lynch is to get better at playing this game, which isn't going to happen overnight. After this game I'm probably gonna head back to newbie games. I don't mean to ignore your questions, I just don't always have an answer.

Like, it could have been a bus? it might not have been? And what do I have to say about my meta over then people that I saying I'm playing this game like I did when I was town are correct in their deduction? At the same time tho, this is a different game. I'm playing differently this game. I can't get any reads, I spent a huge chunk of the game just being confused by the mod. Maybe I'm being selfish for wanting to stick it out and see what I can get out of it, maybe if I had replaced out someone else could have contributed more. But I'm trying

Thor, how sure are you that Transcend is town? How likely would it be for two town players to death tunnel in on each other like we've done?

[Rosske]

gigabyte finding reasons to discredit my meta is scummy.

You discrediting Gigabyte's analysis is scummy.
Me discrediting your discredit is scummy.

No - Gigabyte's issues with your meta clear are concise, clear, and very valid points - it is not scummy at all.
You not actually discussing the reasoning behind Wing and me rough clearing you is vastly more scummy than what Giga is doing.
Why aren't you discussing your meta?

I look like an easy mislynch.

You are an easy lynch.
Could you do something about that?

I feel like IF transcend is town, he's playing very destructively, and scum could likely use that to fuel their own anti-town motives, and I feel like you're most likely to be guilty of that.

Does that jive with his interactions with Karnos? You think that looks like a bus?

@Rosske - why is it when I ask you a question I don't get a response?
Answer some questions and pretend to be more pro town than Transcend who doesn't look town at all, please and thank you.

The best way for me to stop looking like an easy lynch is to get better at playing this game, which isn't going to happen overnight. After this game I'm probably gonna head back to newbie games. I don't mean to ignore your questions, I just don't always have an answer.

Like, it could have been a bus? it might not have been? And what do I have to say about my meta over then people that I saying I'm playing this game like I did when I was town are correct in their deduction? At the same time tho, this is a different game. I'm playing differently this game. I can't get any reads, I spent a huge chunk of the game just being confused by the mod. Maybe I'm being selfish for wanting to stick it out and see what I can get out of it, maybe if I had replaced out someone else could have contributed more. But I'm trying

Thor, how sure are you that Transcend is town? How likely would it be for two town players to death tunnel in on each other like we've done?

[Wingback]

Going to answer Thor's question about Gigabyte later and I want to double-check my read there as well just to be completely safe. But thoughts on Mhsmith:

Mhsmith's entrance and questions to Luna Fox read town and he seems genuinely interested in figuring her out. This is corroborated when Luna Fox admits that this looks different from her scumgame.

A couple of questions though:

@Mhsmith;

1. Were you following the game before you received your role PM? If so, were you suspecting Luna at that time?
2. Your initial posts towards Karnos does not look as though you suspected him (Post 568, Post 575, Post 579). You were questioning Luna about her scumread on Karnos and appearing skeptical. So, I can't follow exactly at what point you decided that Karnos was scum after all and made the case on him (Post 614). Also, a lot of the things you pointed out in your case were stuff from early game before you replaced in so if you found those scummy, surely you would have pointed them out. Did you suspect that Luna was bussing Karnos or did you think she was pushing a mislynch? If bussing, where's your follow-up after the flip? If you thought she was pushing a mislynch, explain how your reads flipped around from "Luna is pushing Karnos" to "Luna is town and Karnos is scum." What were the posts that caused these read changes?

Post 807 reads town given he's describing what he did hopping onto the Karnos wagon. If he were scum laying the groundwork to push on Karnos' defenders, he would have persued that angle.

Rest of his ISO also shows him genuinely questioning and probing multiple people. Looked through his one scumgame on site and I found his posting a lot more formal/stilted and he explicitly says that he isn't very good as scum. If he's scum here, he's definitely improved. Overall, I'm putting mhsmith as a fairly slight townread.

There's a lot of stuff he says that I agree with but there's something about the way he posts that reads off that I can't put my finger on just yet. He made a case on Karnos D1 and put him at L-1 which is exactly what I would expect a wolf in his place to do

(did I just subconsciously refer to scum as "wolf?" Probably came from poring over mhsmith's ISO so much).

But after Karnos dies, there's no real passion for any push anywhere. It's just a lot of hand-wringing, considering all the possibilities but going along with the lynch that the majority wants.

I haven't seen mhsmith say with conviction that a certain player is scum and push for their lynch. Given his references to his towngame, I feel like that's something he would do as town so I suppose a meta-read of a couple of his towngames is in order.

Finally, another question re: Post 1888:
3) When I asked you for your thoughts on Transcend's push on you, I wasn't asking you to refute it and tell me it's wrong. I wanted to know what you thought on Transcend's alignment - whether it was a town push or a scum push from your POV.

I believe I have outstanding questions from mhsmith regarding my Rosske townread and from Thor regarding my Gigabyte townread so I'll get to those two next. I'll look over Transcend's Rosske case as well though to make sure I'm not missing anything.

In my next post, I'm going to track down each read that mhsmith has to figure out whether it makes sense. He seems town but something's bugging me here and I need to figure out what it is.

[mhsmith0]

In response to people saying I voted opportunistically or without reason in day 1.

It's pretty much true. But it doesn't make me scum.

I didn't really have any strong reads on day 1. I jumped onto wagons and cast votes in order to apply pressure and see what would come back to me, in hopes of getting better reads. I wasn't voting for lynches as much as I was voting in search of information.

Totally get while you can scum read me for that, but that's what I was thinking. Part of my scum read on Transcend is in response to how quickly he snapped up scum-looking behavior from me.

So why do you think it's wolfy to hop on wolfy looking behavior? What in your mind would have been a proper town response to it?

[mhsmith0]

@tenshii: so the issue here is that, based on your read, rosske is either bad town or just a wolf. Like, lurking and non-participation are suspicious, but they're well within the range of bad town. So why in your mind has rosske jumped from bad/unhelpful town to actually being the last goon? I'd like to know how much of the case really boils down to "stuff that is bad town or wolf, and hey if we mislynch its not like we lose an active participating member", and how much is truly wolf-indicative.

[mhsmith0]

@rosske: what do you think of the meta read stated on you? Do you think it's a valid description of the difference between your town and scum game? Why or why not?

As far as a town v town tunnel goes, those can and do happen. If your case on transcend boils down to "he's tunneling me and I'm town" that's not much of a case.

And what are your reads on the rest of the field, and why? A lack of substantive participation has been a big knock on you this game. A good way to fix that is to start substantively participating.

[mhsmith0]

@wing: it's been a month so I don't remember that well, but I believe I read it through once before reading my role pm, and had a gut ping about Luna on my first read through.

You are correct that I didn't especially suspect karnos when I popped in. The reason it changed was I went back and carefully read the back and forths between him, Thor and io. My first take was Luna was opportunistically hopping on a mislynch wagon; only after I dug into it did I suspect karnos more. Had karnos flipped green I probably would have pushed harder on her d2; IIRC my twilight postings d1 suggested this (including suspicion of scum theater between kts and Luna).

As far as my read changing, I thought her content improved as the game continued, I liked her twilight d1 push on kts,etc. I'm not sure I can really put a finger on exactly where and when my read on her changed, though, at least not off the cuff.

Wrt passion, sometimes I feel really strongly about a case and pursue it with vigor, and sometimes I don't. What I'm usually trying to do is either find the best lynch or push the best lynch. When I'm not particularly sure, I'm much more in info-gathering mode (questioning, re-reading, etc). I'd say I didn't pursue the kts case with strong vigor, and I definitely didn't do that with PC since I didn't even vote him until after hammer, and even that was a "a majority shouldn't be ignored just because mod screwed up" vote. PC was a plausible wolf but by no means a lock; and I didn't treat him as if he was.

Ps http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p8168308 was the more detailed case I'd made on karnos, and reflected my thought process at the time, but like I said, I figured the board wasn't interested in wall posts so I didn't bother posting it in detail until asked for later,

Pps I think transcends push on me wasn't obviously town or obviously wolf. I think it was a questionable push using lazy reading, which is suspicious but nothing like a smoking gun. My sense is youre suspicious of it, though; am I correct, and is that still the case?

[Transcend]

so has anyone read my 1925 in its entirety

[mhsmith0]

Yes. I'm trying to get some answers from rosske on other questions before I really react to your case though.

[Wingback]

I am suspicious of Transcend's push on you but I found your lack of reaction to it equally notable. If I were in your place, I'd be very suspicious of someone trying to set me up to be lynched the next day. For most of the game, you deflect Transcend's suspicion of you as lazy or bad, never taking a hard stance on his alignment. Finally, you vote him today because he apparently didn't justify his townread on Karnos whereas Tenshii did. That's information you've had for a long time. So, the co-incidence between me pushing Transcend and you voting him a few pages later doesn't sit well with me especially since you didn't seem to agree with my reasoning for pushing him. It seemed like you saw a potential lynch opportunity in Transcend and came up with your own reasoning to push it through.

I also don't understand what you think happened with bussing on Karnos wagon. At some point, you clear people for defending him given you think scum would want to bus. But now, your main suspects seem to be the two people who defended Karnos.

As for Transcend, I am suspicious of the seeming disparity between Transcend's supreme confidence that Rosske if the final scum while at the same time suggesting not one, but two more backup suspects if Rosske does flip town. In addition to that, I don't really understand the extreme certainty in Tenshii being town given Tenshii is one of the players I'm considering as potential scum.

[Transcend]

lemme spill it out for you

0% you flip scum
0% Tenshii flips scum (I've been known to be very good at reading new players)
a solid 2% Giga flips scum

Leaning about 80% on Rosske
15% mhsmith
8% Thor