Mini 1802: Paint Mafia Sequel - Game Over!

[Dwlee99]

The smart scum play would have been to change as many players to red as possible to make the endgame be all red.
Or all blue, either way - the goal would be to take the most expeidient path to make the color flip info meaningless which would be the red path, but let's presume scum are dumb.
There is zero value in changing a town player to purple, black, white, or fuscia if the only end goal of those colors is to confuse.

Unless scum can't change colors from blue to red and vice versa - which the flip info does not appear to support.
Which is making me wonder if they got caught out with the purple, causing a shift in optimal play choice.
Timing wise that appears to make sense with the single red flip from a town and no blue scum flips.

Insert your next rant below.

P sure last game scum had a one shot of their colors. So they have to choose different paints for each player. They couldn't go all red or all blue cause of the x-shot on colors.

[Dwlee99]

Like, say I'm scum and you're town - why would I want to change your color to purple, as opposed to changing it to red?

cause u already changed zulfy

[Thor665]

P sure last game scum had a one shot of their colors. So they have to choose different paints for each player. They couldn't go all red or all blue cause of the x-shot on colors.

You are wrong, scum had infinite red paint and only one shot of blue paint last game.
If you think scum only had one shot of blue - who did they use it on?
If you think scum had no blue and only one red shot, wouldn't the optimal strategy be to start immediately painting over red - with, say, purple?

[Dwlee99]

are you saying that you know how the paint mechanics have worked this whole time and yet you were acting completely oblivious to it earlier to try to do a pseudo town slip?
and the optimal strat would be to paint over everyone as a different color, not just scum

[Dwlee99]

Sotty is advancing a concept of wanting to lynch himself to figure out his color to figure out my alignment.
Like...if I was town, and I wanted to figure out Thor - I can't conceive of thinking that a self lynch would be the easiest answer option.
A lynch of who you want to figure is the easiest option.
It makes no sense.

If colors can change and have no relevance to alignment - why does any of it matter?

Like, let's say we could get mod confirmed color results on everyone right this second - would it solve the game?
If yes, why do you need to be flipped to learn about another color?
If no, why do you care about the other color?

P sure last game scum had a one shot of their colors. So they have to choose different paints for each player. They couldn't go all red or all blue cause of the x-shot on colors.

You are wrong, scum had infinite red paint and only one shot of blue paint last game.
If you think scum only had one shot of blue - who did they use it on?
If you think scum had no blue and only one red shot, wouldn't the optimal strategy be to start immediately painting over red - with, say, purple?

sounds kinda like someone was reading a scum chat and educated themselves on the scum's purpose of painting me purple lol

[Dwlee99]

katsuki has voted ira for two days straight, plenty of time for scum to come in and quick hammer if katsuki and ira are town.
I'm done with this blubbering discourse
VOTE: katsuki

[Dwlee99]

^ l-1

[Thor665]

I remain confirmed town except if Katsuki is scum.

are you saying that you know how the paint mechanics have worked this whole time and yet you were acting completely oblivious to it earlier to try to do a pseudo town slip?
and the optimal strat would be to paint over everyone as a different color, not just scum

Nothing suggested that I was trying to town slip - do you see something suggestive of that?

Why is the optimal strategy to paint over everyone, as opposed to painting all town red or all scum blue?
While we're at it, I would still like you to back up your theory that all town started as blue and all scum started as red. That is required for your conf scum claim (now shifted to mostly confirmed, natch) on Kat to make sense, yeah?

sounds kinda like someone was reading a scum chat and educated themselves on the scum's purpose of painting me purple lol

Kind of an odd dodge of the questions I asked you.
So your theory is scum painted you purple because the logical move for scum to do would be to paint themselves purple, so they did it to you to set you up?

[Thor665]

I remain confirmed town except if Katsuki is scum.

Though really the only point here is Sotty.

[Dwlee99]

are you saying that you know how the paint mechanics have worked this whole time and yet you were acting completely oblivious to it earlier to try to do a pseudo town slip?
and the optimal strat would be to paint over everyone as a different color, not just scum

Nothing suggested that I was trying to town slip - do you see something suggestive of that?

you came off trying to seem ignorant to the way the paint worked in order to seem town. just a bad vibe i got

Why is the optimal strategy to paint over everyone, as opposed to painting all town red or all scum blue?

we've been over this
a limited amount of paint would mean that scum would be unable to just paint everyone red

While we're at it, I would still like you to back up your theory that all town started as blue and all scum started as red. That is required for your conf scum claim (now shifted to mostly confirmed, natch) on Kat to make sense, yeah?

zzz
NO TOWN CLAIMED TO HAVE STARTED RED
Katsuki has claimed that they started out as blue!
THEY CLAIMED TO START AS BLUE
but they didn't start blue. They started red >_>

sounds kinda like someone was reading a scum chat and educated themselves on the scum's purpose of painting me purple lol

Kind of an odd dodge of the questions I asked you.
So your theory is scum painted you purple because the logical move for scum to do would be to paint themselves purple, so they did it to you to set you up?

[/quote]
I didn't really read the entire argument for why it is "optimal" but that would probably be a good reason to do so

[Thor665]

you came off trying to seem ignorant to the way the paint worked in order to seem town. just a bad vibe i got

How did I "try" to seem ignorant? I actually only really asked why scum would choose a particular strategy for paint changing - that is a valid question and does not imply ignorance at all.
I think you're making this up.

we've been over this
a limited amount of paint would mean that scum would be unable to just paint everyone red

What leads you to believe scum have a limited amount of paint?
They didn't in the last game.
Was there discussion about how unlimited paint was unbalancing last time?

NO TOWN CLAIMED TO HAVE STARTED RED
Katsuki has claimed that they started out as blue!
THEY CLAIMED TO START AS BLUE
but they didn't start blue. They started red >_>

I will agree no town claimed they started as red.
I will agree Katsuki claimed he started as blue.
Neither bit of info actually answers my question as to why you presume all town started as blue and all scum as red - you were even discussing a scum godfather a while ago, which doesn't appear to exist, and also are not discussing any idea of scum having blue paint or not.

I think that the goofy colors suggests a lack of blue paint.
I think by town being made red without claiming it suggests bad town play or scum with at least some red capability.
If I was scum, and couldn't make myself blue, and had limited ability to make town red, my goal to protect from paint investigation would be to early limit the possibility of a red paint check, and to also kill blue paint flips.
Scum appears to be following at least half of this strategy.
For you to be town, what is your theory for why they didn't follow the first half?

I didn't really read the entire argument for why it is "optimal" but that would probably be a good reason to do so

Yeah...the other option is that Ockham says you're scum.

[Thor665]

you came off trying to seem ignorant to the way the paint worked in order to seem town. just a bad vibe i got

How did I "try" to seem ignorant? I actually only really asked why scum would choose a particular strategy for paint changing - that is a valid question and does not imply ignorance at all.
I think you're making this up.

we've been over this
a limited amount of paint would mean that scum would be unable to just paint everyone red

What leads you to believe scum have a limited amount of paint?
They didn't in the last game.
Was there discussion about how unlimited paint was unbalancing last time?

NO TOWN CLAIMED TO HAVE STARTED RED
Katsuki has claimed that they started out as blue!
THEY CLAIMED TO START AS BLUE
but they didn't start blue. They started red >_>

I will agree no town claimed they started as red.
I will agree Katsuki claimed he started as blue.
Neither bit of info actually answers my question as to why you presume all town started as blue and all scum as red - you were even discussing a scum godfather a while ago, which doesn't appear to exist, and also are not discussing any idea of scum having blue paint or not.

I think that the goofy colors suggests a lack of blue paint.
I think by town being made red without claiming it suggests bad town play or scum with at least some red capability.
If I was scum, and couldn't make myself blue, and had limited ability to make town red, my goal to protect from paint investigation would be to early limit the possibility of a red paint check, and to also kill blue paint flips.
Scum appears to be following at least half of this strategy.
For you to be town, what is your theory for why they didn't follow the first half?

I didn't really read the entire argument for why it is "optimal" but that would probably be a good reason to do so

Yeah...the other option is that Ockham says you're scum.

[Thor665]

pieguyn [3]

- Nahdia, TehBrawlGuy, pieguyn

Katsuki

[6] -

RadiantCowbells, Zulfy,

Ira, Dwlee99,

kraska77

,

Katsuki

Not Voting [1]:

Thor

pieguyn [1]

- Zulfy

Dwlee99 [5] -

pieguyn

, Thor,

ChaosOmega

, Dwlee99,

kraska77

Katsuki

[1]

- iraonavp

Not Voting [1]:

Katsuki

Eh, food for other people to look at, I was hoping for a brighter insight than I got.

[Dwlee99]

Neither bit of info actually answers my question as to why you presume all town started as blue and all scum as red - you were even discussing a scum godfather a while ago, which doesn't appear to exist, and also are not discussing any idea of scum having blue paint or not.

if there is a scum godfather I think that the godfather would have started as blue as opposed to some other color. and AGAIN, it doesn't FUCKING MATTER if scum have blue paint. CAUSE NONE OF THE COLOR FLIPS THAT CONFIRM KATSUKI AS SCUM WERE BLUE!!!!
!!!!!

[Dwlee99]

I think that the goofy colors suggests a lack of blue paint.
I think by town being made red without claiming it suggests bad town play or scum with at least some red capability.
If I was scum, and couldn't make myself blue, and had limited ability to make town red, my goal to protect from paint investigation would be to early limit the possibility of a red paint check, and to also kill blue paint flips.
Scum appears to be following at least half of this strategy.
For you to be town, what is your theory for why they didn't follow the first half?

I just realized how bullshit this entire argument is. Cause I could have been painted night 1, night 2 or night 3. We know katsuki started the game as red, but it is possible that one of the scum painted themselves night 1 night 2 or night 3 (you and ira are both still alive who have flipped non-blue and non-red). So the only thing you're saying is that one of the scum painted themselves not blue or not red nights 1 - 3 which no fucking duh all of the people who could be scum flipped non-blue and non-red.

[Thor665]

I think that the goofy colors suggests a lack of blue paint.
I think by town being made red without claiming it suggests bad town play or scum with at least some red capability.
If I was scum, and couldn't make myself blue, and had limited ability to make town red, my goal to protect from paint investigation would be to early limit the possibility of a red paint check, and to also kill blue paint flips.
Scum appears to be following at least half of this strategy.
For you to be town, what is your theory for why they didn't follow the first half?

I just realized how bullSmurf this entire argument is. Cause I could have been painted night 1, night 2 or night 3. We know katsuki started the game as red, but it is possible that one of the scum painted themselves night 1 night 2 or night 3 (you and ira are both still alive who have flipped non-blue and non-red). So the only thing you're saying is that one of the scum painted themselves not blue or not red nights 1 - 3 which no fucking duh all of the people who could be scum flipped non-blue and non-red.

Not Katsuki though.
And you're voting him.

[Dwlee99]

lol do u have a google extension that changes shit to smurf
anyway though, I don't think that both of the scum would have painted themselves on night 1 and 2.

[Sotty7]

I'm currently at work posting from a kindle so it's hard to quote and keep up but I'm not 1v1 with katsuki at all.

Mostly posting to not hammer at this point. I'm willing to give katsuki a little more time. However the more he avoids the thread, the more it looks like scum bailing

[Sotty7]

Lets talk partners.

Possible combos:

Katsuki + Thor
Katsuki + Dwlee
Katsuki + iraonavp
Katsuki + Sotty
Thor+ Dwlee
Thor + iranoavp
Thor + Sotty
Dwlee + iraonavp
Dwlee + Sotty
Sotty + iraonavp


Right now we have Katsuki at lynch - 1 with iraonavp and Dwlee voting. Both myself and Thor have posted without a hammer. That rules out a team of me and Thor as it would make Katsuki town and one of us would have end gamed you all by now.

This also rules out any team of either myself or Thor with either Dwlee or iraonavp because again this would me Katsuki was town and either Thor or myself would have hammered and the game would be over. This leaves us with the following five groupings.

Katsuki + Thor
Katsuki + Dwlee
Katsuki + iraonavp
Katsuki + Sotty
Dwlee + iraonavp

Thor+ Dwlee

Thor + iranoavp

Thor + Sotty

Dwlee + Sotty

Sotty + iraonavp

Breaking it down like this makes it pretty clear to me that Katsuki is scum. I want to check into the Dwlee + iraonavp just to make myself feel better but right now I don't feel that being too likely. I spoke about an alternate theory of the crime, and I was thinking it could be iranovp + Thor. I was doing reading and Bellaphant (Thor) left a vote on Spiffeh (iraonavp) a lot of day one despite spending most of her time pushing elsewhere on her reads. It stuck out to me. We have ruled that partnership out since Thor didn't hammer.

Am I missing something?

[Sotty7]

I remain confirmed town except if Katsuki is scum.

Though really the only point here is Sotty.

Okay, sell me Dwlee + iraonvp. I get the feeling you haven't read the game, mostly because your arguments have been based off today's events. I suggest you get on that ASAP because I'm reading Dwlee and iraonvp as town just based off reactions over today and yesterday and everything is just screaming at me to hammer Katsuki.

[Dwlee99]

Katsuki started the game as red. (This is confirmed as sotty cannot be scum unless katsuki is scum)
The only possible way katsuki could be town is if you think that scum started with a godfather who wasn't blue which makes no sense.

[Cheetory6]

VoteCount 6.02

=====================

Katsuki [2]

- iraonavp, Dwlee99

iraonavp [1]

- Katsuki

Not Voting [2]

- Sotty7, Thor665
=====================

With 5 players alive, it takes 3 votes to lynch.
Day Six will end in (expired on 2016-09-06 18:00:00)

[Thor665]

I remain confirmed town except if Katsuki is scum.

Though really the only point here is Sotty.

Okay, sell me Dwlee + iraonvp. I get the feeling you haven't read the game, mostly because your arguments have been based off today's events. I suggest you get on that ASAP because I'm reading Dwlee and iraonvp as town just based off reactions over today and yesterday and everything is just screaming at me to hammer Katsuki.

I don't particularly think that's the scum pair with you confirmed.

The question to me is Ira+Kat or Dwlee+Kat.

Do you see Ira+Kat as an option?

P.S. I will read things people want to link as important, but, no, I refuse to read the whole game - that is pointless.

[Sotty7]

I'll take a look through at those possible partnerships. I wonder if it might be better to keep our opinions on those brief with an eye to tomorrow and not tipping our hand for the final scum.

You seem to agree that Katsuki is the best option for today. I think I will be checking out iraonvp + Dwlee and if I am fine with that not being the partnership we should hammer.

[Thor665]

Pretty much our opinions on other things should either be hardline or soft as hell, but I also tend to expect you to end up dead almost regardless, so I actually kind of want to hear your thoughts. If you think maybe by being guarded you somehow don't end up dead, great, but I wouldn't want to put money on it as a theory.

I did a scan on Ira+Dwlee yesterday when I got suspect of the speed of his jump after I called him on lack of vote, but there appear to be too many times they're digging at each other for it to really vibe as partners to me. I could of course be wrong, but that's my take on the theory. I suspect the real question is which of Ira or Dwlee are bussing.