Newbie 1735 - Banana Split (Game Over!)

[goodmorning]

@ironstove: I don't see how you come to that conclusion.

[jon_h61]

Wow, a lot of peeps are coming back from long breaks. I guess I picked a good time to come back myself.

My initial read of DDD is Town. I still don't get the copper/Dragon tag team. Just seems "too scummy to be scum." I'm almost sure one of them is scum. The argument is just so convoluted. It doesn't feel natural (to me).

Let me make sure I have this right. Copper/Dragon are Town reading each othrr, right? @ both Who do you think looks scummiest in regards to their DDD interactions? Who would you compromise lynch?

[jon_h61]

Fluff? I have s minor complaint (request). While ISOing I'm finding a lot of quote strips that have no reference as to who you are talking sbout. At the time it may be obvious, but going back over ISOs, its not always obvious. Quoting the first post (or part thereof), then quote stripping the rest (pertaining to the person) would help cut down on confusion. TIA

[Accountant]

Just seems "too scummy to be scum."

No such thing

It doesn't feel natural (to me).

Why do you feel that convoluted natural arguments are difficult/impossible? What about the argument between DDD and copper?

[jon_h61]

No such thing

I know.

If someone is making arguments that don't seem to make sense, it's usually a good thing to push on it awhile.
Like if Dragon's really Town, she should be trying to show (me) why/how I'm so screwed up on my read on them, not just say yeah I knew you were gonna vote me(paraphrased).

[Dragonfire]

@Dragon my accusations were made with very little reading done. So don't be too offended. But yeah, it might be something like that.

I haven't read the DDD spat, so for now it's only hearsay to me. I'll ISO him tomorrow. There's others I need to look into, but replacements bleh.

Oh, okay. Take your time, a fresh input is exactly what this game needs right now.

It's very simple if DDd flips town which I don't think he will, then copper must die.

It's not quite that simple. Town can tunnel other town, you do realise?

My initial read of DDD is Town. I still don't get the copper/Dragon tag team. Just seems "too scummy to be scum." I'm almost sure one of them is scum. The argument is just so convoluted. It doesn't feel natural (to me).

When you've fully read the thread, do tell us what exactly you find convoluted and unnatural. If you don't understand, I might be able to clarify it for you. I guess it must look like we're making all these complicated posts and DDD's are so simple, but actually he's been evading our points by deliberately not directly replying to us.

Let me make sure I have this right. Copper/Dragon are Town reading each othrr, right? @ both Who do you think looks scummiest in regards to their DDD interactions? Who would you compromise lynch?

copper voted me, and then unvoted after my case on DDD, so I'm not sure exactly what his read on me is. But yes, he is my strongest townread.

By that post, are you saying you are only prepared to lynch me or copper today? Also, why in particular are you voting me over copper?

[Dragonfire]

No such thing

I know.

If someone is making arguments that don't seem to make sense, it's usually a good thing to push on it awhile.
Like if Dragon's really Town, she should be trying to show (me) why/how I'm so screwed up on my read on them, not just say yeah I knew you were gonna vote me(paraphrased).

I'm a "he", not a "she". And you haven't given me any reasons on why you find me suspicious, so I can't exactly defend myself from nothing apart from saying that I'm town.

[jon_h61]

@Dragon Apologies. I'll try to keep it straight.

You two are my biggest scum reads, yes. I'm not certain though. You were just picked first. Copper's attacking GM's post throwing shade when there were so many question marks sounded disingenuous. The buddying of you, and other things make me more inclined to believe he's scum. I'm on a phone so quote stripping is a pain, but hopefully I'll have the case I believe up today so it can be analyzed. I know I kill Townies sometimes so I know i can be wrong. But sometimes I get it oh so right.

[copper223]

Fair enough, I'll wait for the case before commenting on the rest.

[Accountant]

Can you plz respond to my questions

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@GM, if there a reason you're sitting your vote on copper right now instead of joining in on the dragon pivot?

And this will seem cruel because it is, but is there a reason you insist on talking to iron like he's people? Several people have asked him to participate in a useful fashion and he just doubles down on the same nonsense, why do you think this time you'll actually get a worthwhile response?

[Dragonfire]

@Dragon Apologies. I'll try to keep it straight.

You two are my biggest scum reads, yes. I'm not certain though. You were just picked first. Copper's attacking GM's post throwing shade when there were so many question marks sounded disingenuous. The buddying of you, and other things make me more inclined to believe he's scum. I'm on a phone so quote stripping is a pain, but hopefully I'll have the case I believe up today so it can be analyzed. I know I kill Townies sometimes so I know i can be wrong. But sometimes I get it oh so right.

When did copper attack GM's post? I don't remember where that was. Awaiting your case so I can reply properly.

@GM, if there a reason you're sitting your vote on copper right now instead of joining in on the dragon pivot?

And this will seem cruel because it is, but is there a reason you insist on talking to iron like he's people? Several people have asked him to participate in a useful fashion and he just doubles down on the same nonsense, why do you think this time you'll actually get a worthwhile response?

There's always hope.

Maybe GM's not voting me because she can see how scummy the wagon is, or maybe she's reconsidering her read on me, I don't know.

[jon_h61]

Why do you feel that convoluted natural arguments are difficult/impossible? What about the argument between DDD and copper?

I'm not quite as black and white on things as you are. I don't believe they're impossible. I believe they can be staged. I'm worried that might be happening. What's your opinion of how Dragon jumps in to agree with copper so often, or at least was where I've been reading?

I don't want to read the parts before all the replacements, unless someone references it in a post and it looks like it might be important, or in ISOs.

Pedit "When did copper attack GM's post? I don't remember where that was. Awaiting your case so I can reply properly." Phone posting r hard. Sorry, about the ??????? Thing.

@Dragon I'm still leaning copper over you. What's the vote count?

[Dragonfire]

@Dragon I'm still leaning copper over you. What's the vote count?

I'm at L-2 and so is DDD, we both have 3 votes I think. Accountant and copper have one vote against them each.

[jon_h61]

@Dragon what I was asking about starts off @post 75 and goes on over several of copper's posts in his ISO before he says it wasn't that important.

[jon_h61]

@copper what was going on in the post I reference in 820?

[copper223]

@Jon
Why aren't you reading the ISO of your strongest scum-read?

That question was already asked and I already answered.

To elaborate, on one side I wanted to make sure that if Asty was town he wouldn't feel intimidated about posting, because that's one of the worst things that can happen with newbies.

But more importantly I wasn't very fond of Asty's whining comments and what could have been playing the newbie card at the start of the game, it reminded me of what happened in my previous newbie where Charloux told Thor, Titus and I to chill out as we were scum-hunting to much for his taste and when Thor continued the pressure he replaced out, the slot turned out to be scum.

[jon_h61]

Your wording seems to have been lost in translation (of the post referenced) It still looks weird.

[Dragonfire]

@Dragon what I was asking about starts off @post 75 and goes on over several of copper's posts in his ISO before he says it wasn't that important.

Oh right, I guess I skimmed it before when I was reading the thread in my catch-up. I'll look at it now.

[copper223]

@Jon
Make your case, I don't see why scum decides to solo push me after my wagon dissolved so close to the deadline and I was town-reading the player you replaced so the sooner the better.

[Accountant]

What's your opinion of how Dragon jumps in to agree with copper so often, or at least was where I've been reading?

Feels similar to me agreeing with GM earlier. NAI at worst.

[jon_h61]

@ copper its Day 1 and I'm late to the dance. My case is only going to get so good. Convince us that me or someone else is scum? What I'm trying to say, if you think I'm barking up the wrong tree (reading you as scum), then help consolidate votes where you think should go.

You and Dragon are the main people responding to me. What do you think of that?

[jon_h61]

One thing to remember, when I jumped in and started looking over the thread, these things were being discussed. And what I pointed out then looked like slips to me. So I investigated. What strikes me as strange, no one else is chiming in. Except accountant, who I think is Town. I get all WIFOMy.

[copper223]

I don't find it surprising that your scum-reads are engaging you more than the rest and you landed on some of the more active players as well.

I've had the same problem when pointing out what to me look like pretty obvious potential slips wrt. to Accountant though, why are you town-reading him?

[jon_h61]

Conf-bias, honestly