Open 646 - Semi Nightless - Game Over (D6)

[mhsmith0]

When you come back Giga: Why did you let your Tenshii town read go to waste? I'm trying to decide how you 180'd there. I think his play was fairly consistent the whole game and his tone matched throughout the whole game. I gave you a plethora of reasons from my ISO that Tenshii could be town and you didn't really take any of them to heart. Walk me entirely through what made you lynch Tenshii yesterday.

Thor fed into my paranoia early game, so after that I never really HAD a townread to 180 from. I read your posts but you pretty much just quoted yourself so it's not like I really felt any need to change my read. Should I explain my scumread on Tenshii or...?

Also I was thinking that a Thor/Giga LYLO isn't really that great for scum!mhsmith because I openly admit that I would vote Mhsmith right off the bat and I would expect Mhsmith to vote me back because I don't think anyone could have pushed Thor as scum. So maybe mhsmith has to take the risk as scum? I'd still take Tenshii and Thor with me to LYLO and I'll be using that as my defense all day

There's also the fact I had NOTHING to gain from pushing Karnos from a scum perspective. If anything, I'd be planning on having Karnos carry my team's win because I really would not expect myself to be able to pull off a successful first scum game outside of the Newbie Queue.

In theory I agree w this. Otoh if you're his buddy you were presumably just distancing early, presuming it would go away, and then basically found yourself unable to credibly hop off his wagon. I don't think the back and forth really looked like that, but it's a theoretically plausible model of what could have happened, and for the most part I believe your town read came mainly from being early on karnos.

[Transcend]

mhsmith don't twist my words. I still think you're scum but I'm playing it safe and investing this game until I am absolutely positive on who is scum. I.E. I'm not giving Giga a cake walk win if he's scum. I can say one thing on a mislynch but when it's LYLO my mind can completely change.

[mhsmith0]

That's fine I think. It seemed like a change in perspective from "yeah tenshii or giga can win if they fooled me" to where you are today.

Is this normal for you in LYLO, to become more tentative in your reads/votes? It is for plenty of people, but I'm curious if this is your norm as well.

[Transcend]

On this site I've only been in one lylo as town and I flat out just yolo'd it immediately and hammered correctly. However that C-14 game was really fast paced unlike this game. I did some reaction tests on Raskol and they made him nearly certain town so I just hammered Ranger to avoid having doubts.

In my scum game on mylo everyone fosed Lowell so I let him get lynched while holding a strongman power to off the jailkeeper.

Both those lynches happened quickly without much waffling from me.

[Transcend]

Actually in diffusion of power I voted rather quickly as well but it wasn't an intense 3P Lylo like this. It was a 6 player MYLO. I almost unvoted Ranger but unfortunately scum slowrolled a blitz so I kept my vote parked on her.

[Transcend]

Basically my behavior is entirely different because this game has gone on for MONTHS and we've had 4 chances to win but flopped all of them. I really don't wanna lose this when we've been so close so many times. If I mishammered Ranger in C-14 it would've been a "meh whatever" as oppposed to mishammering here where it would be like "HOLY F*** I WASTED ALL MY F***ING TIME JUST TO BE WRONG".

[Transcend]

Like I'll be honest this game has given me sleepless nights and made me late for work a few times so losing here would absolutely disgust me.

[Transcend]

To answer your question directly: I think it depends on the game. If it's fast paced and relaxed then I might be quicker to vote in LYLO as opposed to this long and drawn out intense game.

[mhsmith0]

For me, I'd had a 3-game winning streak that just got snapped (my first wolf multi ball game [on MU] did not go so well, had to fake claim d1 and the got lynched d2, and then town pulled it out thanks to a bunch of cross-kills). I've had an annoying tendency to turn losses into losing streaks (I had a six-gamer across multiple sites not that long ago), and would REALLY like to finally claw my way over .500 on MS (6-6 right now, including some just horrific gut-punch losses).

At any rate, I'll probably go work on this more over the weekend. Hopefully something jumps out at me in the process.

[Transcend]

My batting average excluding Marathon games is pretty terrible I believe.

[mhsmith0]

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mhsmith0
Can see for yourself. Didn't update for the multiball result, rest is up to date I think.

[Transcend]

I think I'm 2-2 in terms of games I didn't get lynched or night killed for town. Every game I got lynched or night killed I believe I lost.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i'd like to know if, after mhsmith metas me, if i really am an aggressive player? tbh my inaction this game came more from tunneling karnos D1 and not making a solid effort to sort people besides him, Thor, and Io and it makes sense w/ my personality so idk.

i really cannot see transcend as scum, so I'm starting to wonder if I'm supposed to be the mislynch bait or what...? Mhsmith doesn't look like he came into this lylo with a clear plan, so I'm having a tough time gauging the nightkill and feel kind of lost.

i feel like i should answer transcend's question about me voting townreads post-D1 but truthfully my answer kinda sucks. Like i said before i got caught up in a tunnel on karnos and kind of ignored the other slots (i had strong opinions about phantom i guess but it was more "don't lynch lynchbait!!" than a defense of a serious townread). d2 i just was so confused i kind of gave up and started coasting, i was townreading every slot besides Rosske (and kankies) throughout the whole game and I just assumed I had to be wrong SOMEWHERE.

i still haven't read-read through the game recently and this game is just kind of an annoying one to read

also i haven't won a single game yet lmao. my newbie was 100% on me but Town deserved the win in 649 because I had the game solved, but died after someone quick-selfhammered themselves for literally no reason

[Transcend]

I openly refuse to read any games I wasn't in, and this is the only game we're in together right now that hasn't ended. So based on the few times you played EM you weren't that aggressive at all as either alignment. However, I don't think you were as engaged as you are here. You openly stated somewhere you didn't like it.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

yeah em's community seems kinda toxic idk... not rly somewhere i want to associate w/ and play frequently. i like f2f mafia for a fast paced game

i like here a lot. but good to know

[Transcend]

I'm just trying to understand how your motivation for the game died if you supposedly pounced mafia d1 and had 5 chances to get the other one.

Speaking for myself, I was eager to find the second mafia and redeem myself after I got dragged and made myself a jack-ass d1.

PEDIT: EM's community is fairly toxic and unfortunately you get stuck with a troll in your game more often than not, but it's still miles better than ToS. I would not recommend my worst enemy to go there.

[mhsmith0]

@giga: I'll actually +1 trans question about why your motivation dropped, especially if this had a chance to be your first ever win on MS. It feels more like you'd be chomping at the bit to grab that first win with blood in the water.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i think people have a bad tendency to expect an easy game after a d1 scum lynch... i did not get an easy game, thus, dissatisfaction.

i also lose motivation rly easily. my townplay is pretty pro-scum lol, i'm easy to manipulate too

There was also the fact that 649 was a much more interesting game and I put WAY more time into it than this one

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I feel bad for whoever is the other townie because I feel like I'm gamethrowing at this point when I'm trying to justify bad townplay

[Transcend]

Fair enough.

@Both of you:

For each lynch you participated in on a scale of 1-10 I want you to tell me how confident you were of them flipping wolf. 1 being not confident at all and 10 being extremely confident. You can give reasons if you want or just give a number.

Lynches Giga was in:
Karnos
Killthestory
PhantomCobalt
Tenshii

Lynches mshsmith was in:
Karnos
Killthestory
PhantomCobalt
Rosske/MariaR
Tenshii

And I'll answer my own question, but I was only on the Rosske/MariaR lynch.

I sorta have to give two answers. Before MariaR self hammered herself I was at about a 9. However when she self-hammered that immediately dropped to a 4 but I still had a glimmer of hope due to her scummy predecessor and the thought she might've just put herself out of her misery.

[Transcend]

I feel bad for whoever is the other townie because I feel like I'm gamethrowing at this point when I'm trying to justify bad townplay

Don't feel bad if you are town. I've half-assed several town games whether it was due to other, more interesting ongoing games, or if it was just due to me having a lack of care in the game. You didn't throw the game if you're town because you strongarmed scum d1.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

ok

10
6
4
8

All sound about right

Interesting question.

[mhsmith0]

i haven't found a recent game where Krinkles votes for his partner during RVS

so, it's irrelevant

If it's indicative (in this case suggestive of it bit being trans) I'd think it's not irrelevant.

Btw karnos scum games on site
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
Did not rvs either buddy

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p8215199
Did rvs one buddy (cakey) on 2nd rvs vote

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p7911854
No rvs of only buddy (ranger), does eventually cast a vote for her that lasts for less than an hour

I think that's his only scum games on site, unless I screwed up the checking. Will dig into those a bit more when I have time.

[Transcend]

So nothing at all gave you doubt about K-man?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

well
if he normally doesn't rvs his partner, maybe he decided to this one time
but if it's something he (almost) ALWAYS does then i'd see it as relevant