New Year's Eve Masquerade Ball - [Game Over]

[Dunnstral]

My gut says that she spewed kagami town with her push there

What are you talking about and why is it only kagami and not me?

Hope you're not talking about stuff AFTER HS suicided.

[Dunnstral]

Remember how early on I said people shouldn't leave the dance?
I'm over that. You should leave the dance

If HS actually takes this advice (she shouldn't) and HS-Parama flips town-town (let's hope not), I'm just gonna stick my vote on Dunn and never move it.

[mhsmith0]

My gut says that she spewed kagami town with her push there

What are you talking about and why is it only kagami and not me?

Hope you're not talking about stuff AFTER HS suicided.

You remember paramas "kill it with fire" bit after kagami unvote/revote? That was what I was talking about. I still don't know why basically no one seemed interested in talking about that, including after I brought it back up a few times.

Now that parama is dead, it was either an opportunistic hop onto something null (and that it was in the context of kagami vote on mds/jester means either pocketing or defending a scum-buddy, nit sure which off the cuff), or she knew she was going down and was just trying to create anti-spew. My current inclination is that it was an actual opportunistic push though.

[Dunnstral]

So by extension does that mean I'm town to you or just kagami?

[Dunnstral]

I think I called you out on that post because it looked like you were setting up for me flipping town and trying not to get suicided on the next day

[mhsmith0]

So by extension does that mean I'm town to you or just kagami?

Probably spews you both, if I'm correct about it. The question is if, in that spot (where HS threatened to suicide if anyone else got to l-1), she'd be more inclined to try and fake spew a buddy town (knowing wagon wouldn't have a realistic chance of going through), or more inclined to try and get off one more mislynch for the road. I don't know parama as a player, so I don't know for sure what she'd be inclined to do there, but I'd think it's likelier to be real spew than fake spew.

I still want to do a larger re-read to be sure but that's my current gut. I'm not entirely sure what to think of kagami's essentially meh reaction to the moment when I pushed her on it, but then no one else seemed inclined to much care either, so I want to say her lack of interest is probably not indicative of her on that front.

[mhsmith0]

I think I called you out on that post because it looked like you were setting up for me flipping town and trying not to get suicided on the next day

I thought it was
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p8652537
Actually, although I guess you hadn't specified which one in particular.

[Dunnstral]

It was mostly that post but I meant in general as well

[Dunnstral]

So your thoughts on lynching sad/scout?

[mhsmith0]

Thinking about it, want to take the time to go through parama interactions (probably also HS ones) and see what I think. I don't particularly think that parama vs sad was outside the realm of reasonable scum theater (all the more so if scout was the scum in the sad/scout pair), but "it could have been" isn't really enough for me to go on rn. This is me being lazy again, but it's a holiday weekend and we now have more time so I don't feel a crazy need to rush.

[pieguyn]

Kagami, if mhsmith was to flip town here (and I probably am leaving in this position unless he somehow does something really really town, so this isn't about whether I'm leaving or not, I mean literally if I was to leave and he flipped town), what would you think?

thing is I'm not sure to what extent I believe what's actually going on here is that SAD and Parama were distancing, and if mhsmith was to be town here, the most likely explanation to my mind would still be what I said way back in this game day: that this is Dunn attempting to prepare for a run to endgame by solidifying his position (via the Parama bus) and laying down connections to implicate and eventually lynch the remaining town pair in the game (which he couldn't just lynch under normal circumstances due to them being very town). so I absolutely don't want to lynch SAD/Parama today, if I want any lynch I want a lynch on my pair and I want to discuss in advance what you think might be going on here if mhsmith does, in fact, flip town.

I still don't see a lot of his thought processes coming from town and I still don't see a town approach at all in how he was handling me the entire game day up until the Parama lynch. if mhsmith is scum, I fully admit that I am probably just wrong on this, but if he's town this seriously needs to be looked at and I don't exactly know why you've thought Jester/Parama/Dunn was impossible the entire time.

[pieguyn]

also, if we're talking about people who largely ignored Parama D1, Dunn definitely falls into that set of people as well. he didn't have anything except a few interactions where he pokes them about their S_S slip being nonsense, and pokes them for spending 1300+ pages pushing the "slip", but he declares no read until he makes it clear he town reads them in 1933 and he never explains the reason anywhere. I find this particularly unusual because Parama's S_S push is a lot of the reason they were scum here, so it's not something I expect someone to notice and acknowledge the issues with and then just have no follow-up on it whatsoever.

I'm having flashbacks to 2913.

[Dunnstral]

Ah, I don't think lady pieguy likes me very much

[mhsmith0]

lol me either. I've already told her to feel free to vote me if she likes. She seems to think this will result in our pair getting voted out quickly, though damned if I know why given the pace of the game so far.

[Dunnstral]

that this is Dunn attempting to prepare for a run to endgame by solidifying his position (via the Parama bus) and laying down connections to implicate and eventually lynch the remaining town pair in the game (which he couldn't just lynch under normal circumstances due to them being very town).

Who, sad-scout?

I'm willing to talk about my read on them this game day. I realize they likely won't suicide so I'd need to convince people to vote there anyway

As for your theory that's some nice paranoi I guess but I'm not doing any of that

I've also made it clear that I'd be willing to reevaluate your pair if smith flipped scum. Which means you should put your suicide on hold for after scout-sad

[Dunnstral]

also, if we're talking about people who largely ignored Parama D1, Dunn definitely falls into that set of people as well. he didn't have anything except a few interactions where he pokes them about their S_S slip being nonsense, and pokes them for spending 1300+ pages pushing the "slip", but he declares no read until he makes it clear he town reads them in 1933 and he never explains the reason anywhere. I find this particularly unusual because Parama's S_S push is a lot of the reason they were scum here, so it's not something I expect someone to notice and acknowledge the issues with and then just have no follow-up on it whatsoever.

I'm having flashbacks to 2913.

My parama read didn't form until day 2, and it was from stuff happening during day 2 and I did talk about it in our pt

[Dunnstral]

I talked about it in thread too

Remember that big post? Yeah

that

one I keep linking

[pieguyn]

I'm not talking about your D2 Parama read.

I'm saying that on D1, you correctly noticed that Parama's S_S push was nonsense, which was by and large the best evidence for them being scum at that point in the game, but did not follow up on it at all until the point where you said you thought they were town in 1933, for reasons you had never explained.

[Dunnstral]

I didn't scumread their push day 1, you're confusing your views with mine

[pieguyn]

OK. why didn't you question it, and where did your D1 town read on them come from?

it was a terrible push. how do you explicitly *point out* why it's such a terrible push and not so much as stop to think, "maybe this is coming from scum. I should stop to question it in a bit more detail"?

[Dunnstral]

I townread them comparing their play to the last game of this type that was a micro that we had just played

They weren't exactly great in that other game, either. They were pushing on me as town all game.

[Dunnstral]

it was a terrible push.

Your words, not mine. I explained that that's not how my read formed

[Dunnstral]

Do you want to talk about why you think sad/scout is a high likelyhood town pair?

[pieguyn]

it was a terrible push.

Your words, not mine. I explained that that's not how my read formed

you explicitly said "you've been sitting there and insisting it was a slip for 1300+ posts" and "what you're arguing is completely wrong, it isn't a slip at all".

that was exactly why the push was so terrible. at that point, it goes beyond someone being bad as town and into the territory of someone stretching to find a "slip" they can comment on.

[Dunnstral]

Sure is easy to say what I should have been doing after they've flipped scum. I thought they were just tunneled 1300 posts into the game.

Are you too far gone pushing me to back down or something? Feels like you're really trying to find reasons to call me scum. Have you compared parama to anyone else?