In Memory

[drealmerz7]

wow, I was trying to figure out how to make those points and you did it waayyyy better than my attempt, smith

*deletes attempt*

[Postie]

since Lycan should not have been the nightkill

Or it was a vig and the nightkill failed?

[Postie]

I think Kuroi is town now, too.

Why?

[drealmerz7]

since Lycan should not have been the nightkill

Or it was a vig and the nightkill failed?

I like this idea

[drealmerz7]

ok I killed lycan with my vig shot

I have never had a vig shot before and wasn't sure about outing it, especially since I was wrong with it

[drealmerz7]

I almost said right away when confusion about it arose but...I dunno...still not sure telling was the right move, actually :\

[Postie]

[drealmerz7]

I was thinking if he was the lynch I'd shoot boring or if boring was the lynch I'd shoot lycan

and then he said "what if I'm the vig" and well that was that after boring was lynched

[Postie]

If last night's missing kill was down to a doctor they should probably be on dreal tonight.

[mhsmith0]

Agreed

[Gamma Emerald]

Hmm, looking over DEO's iso and I found this little nugget:

You played that game GIF hosted. How can you seriously think that .

The 15p?

I legit don't care about meta

.

Interactions in THIS GAME suggest

at least one of you or Vedith is scum and dreal is town.

But apparently you

do

care about meta enough to defend Titus...

So just the use os PL as a reason?
I felt it was a strong case, and SS's rage kinda felt like scum caught for the wrong reason.

What?

DEO's reason was that SS's reason was a PL. It was not. It was clarified as a joke, interpreted as a joke by multiple people; the self-meta was questioned -- and still DEO carried on for over 20 pages.

A TvT situation would have been like:
"PL lynch Titus! She's always scum!"
"Are you seriously suggesting that?"
"No, it was a joke!"
<game continues>

Instead DEO took control of the game.

Let's note this is Titus and MathBlade we're talking about here. I KNOW Math is a tunneler as town, and Titus likely believed the PL thing was valid. I've seen people use tells like "people who suggest PLs are scum" as town as major case builders.
btw both point I make here are based in the same game.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=68707
Infinity is my reference for tells like the one Titus used, he said 40% of the time scum would vote GL based on his username
Math tunneled me in this game for ALL of day 1

[...]

Please provide a couple examples of Titus doing this as scum in previous games.

I'm not building a scum-meta case on Titus,

I'm trying to show how things appear in the context of THIS game

. Also see above posts; I have experience with Titus as both alignments.

Do you see how that's a bit hypocritical?

I don't listen to my scumreads is why.

[drealmerz7]

I also have a bit of a scumlean on JR now - seems like he's been trying to figure out what happened to the NK

[drealmerz7]

like "were we redirected or was it a vig. shot and we were blocked wtf happened?!?!?!"

[Klingoncelt]

Meta thing, when Titus is in a hydra she's more confident. When she's in a neighborhood she's more confident. She's willing to do a bit of gambiting.

She normally would have started building a Townbloc on Day1, but here we are in Day3 and she hasn't broached the subject yet.

No attempt whatsoever to join forces with anyone. No gambits

I don't like it. Not one bit.

VOTE: The DEO

[drealmerz7]

ummm, she kind of thread-mason-buddied me D1 and we were a bit of a joint force on SS/KTS and RM/boring (to a degree)

just laying out the facts

[The DEO]

Meta thing, when Titus is in a hydra she's more confident. When she's in a neighborhood she's more confident. She's willing to do a bit of gambiting.

She normally would have started building a Townbloc on Day1, but here we are in Day3 and she hasn't broached the subject yet.

No attempt whatsoever to join forces with anyone. No gambits

I don't like it. Not one bit.

VOTE: The DEO

Oh I have a townblock. You are not in it Grandma.

~Titus

[ɀefiend]

Do you see how that's a bit hypocritical?

It's a bit hypocritical I guess, but why is it scum-indicative of Gamma to turn his face away from shadow's offered meta defense while on a different time and place using his own meta understanding to defend DEO?

Like, Gamma didn't seem to be saying that he somehow didn't care about meta in general, rather it seemed like he was explicitly rejecting shadow's meta defense, with stated reasoning of there being evidence of interactions that seemed damning (though why he picked shadow over vedith if it was "one of you two is scum" is possibly an interesting question I might want to dig into).

So other than it being vaguely bad-looking to reject a type of reasoning in one case and accept it in a different case, why does it actually suggest he's being strategic or materially hypocritical?

I don't listen to my scumreads is why.

OK nvm, fair point. I am just trying to make sense of the Gamma-DEO connection. Maybe I am just imagining it but I feel like there's something off.

In regards to Titus, we will have have to agree to disagree about the whole meta thing. Just a final word, though -- can't scum appear sincere as well?

[The DEO]

Zefiend, why did you avoid voting RachMarie?

[ɀefiend]

I'm also wondering why JaeReed abandoned our dialogue. What happened to all the wallpost?

If I abandoned it then it means one of the following:
I forgot (please quote it if you want more discussion since I'm too lazy to go back right now)
I was done talking (not sure if that's the case since I don't even remember having a discussion with you)

I've been preoccupied trying to reread and look at vote counts and struggling to figure out where I went wrong with my reads since Lycan should not have been the nightkill, which indicates something about my thoughts on the gamestate isn't adding up...which means my reads are horribly wrong, most likely.

I think Kuroi is town now, too.

I will have to get back to you on this. It was mostly about your reads at the time -- probably outdated conversation now that you are reevaluating.

[ɀefiend]

Zefiend, why did you avoid voting RachMarie?

Can you avoid asking dishonest questions? I was voting RM when I felt she was the optimal lynch.

I did not vote boring because I felt lycanfire was a better choice. The defense against Math, the claim, the reads -- nothing compelled me to move my vote. I should have known better since apparently Math's case was bullshit. But that is a whole other topic I still need to reevaluate in my scumread on your slot.

[The DEO]

Zefiend, why did you avoid voting RachMarie?

Can you avoid asking dishonest questions? I was voting RM when I felt she was the optimal lynch.

I did not vote boring because I felt lycanfire was a better choice. The defense against Math, the claim, the reads -- nothing compelled me to move my vote. I should have known better since apparently Math's case was bullshit. But that is a whole other topic I still need to reevaluate in my scumread on your slot.

Math's scumread was moonlogic, not bullshit. Nice deflection.

You were voting RachMarie when no one would lynch her but when the wagon took off, you did not. Suggests distancing.

Your OMGUS and hypersensitivity to being FoSed also suggest scum.

What alignment do you think RachMarie was? Who do you think was scum on her wagon?

[Klingoncelt]

Meta thing, when Titus is in a hydra she's more confident. When she's in a neighborhood she's more confident. She's willing to do a bit of gambiting.

She normally would have started building a Townbloc on Day1, but here we are in Day3 and she hasn't broached the subject yet.

No attempt whatsoever to join forces with anyone. No gambits

I don't like it. Not one bit.

VOTE: The DEO

Oh I have a townblock. You are not in it Grandma.

~Titus

Then it's likely not a Town bloc.

I'll keep the vote on you.

[ɀefiend]

Zefiend, why did you avoid voting RachMarie?

Can you avoid asking dishonest questions? I was voting RM when I felt she was the optimal lynch.

I did not vote boring because I felt lycanfire was a better choice. The defense against Math, the claim, the reads -- nothing compelled me to move my vote. I should have known better since apparently Math's case was bullshit. But that is a whole other topic I still need to reevaluate in my scumread on your slot.

Math's scumread was moonlogic, not bullshit. Nice deflection.

You were voting RachMarie when no one would lynch her but when the wagon took off, you did not. Suggests distancing.

Your OMGUS and hypersensitivity to being FoSed also suggest scum.

What alignment do you think RachMarie was? Who do you think was scum on her wagon?

The two are synonymous to me.

"No one would lynch her" -- can you STOP being dishonest please?? RM got to L-1 in a short span while I was voting her. "The wagon taking off" again took over a week.

Show me where I omgusd anyone? I refuse to engage you any further if you are just going to sling shit.

I am honestly not sure what RM's alignment was at this point. The second question is partially dependent on the first, and partially dependent on me sorting YOU, which is a more pressing concern to me at the moment.

So how about you do something productive and address my concerns and analyze other people's input to my discussion?

[Gamma Emerald]

Do you see how that's a bit hypocritical?

It's a bit hypocritical I guess, but why is it scum-indicative of Gamma to turn his face away from shadow's offered meta defense while on a different time and place using his own meta understanding to defend DEO?

Like, Gamma didn't seem to be saying that he somehow didn't care about meta in general, rather it seemed like he was explicitly rejecting shadow's meta defense, with stated reasoning of there being evidence of interactions that seemed damning (though why he picked shadow over vedith if it was "one of you two is scum" is possibly an interesting question I might want to dig into).

So other than it being vaguely bad-looking to reject a type of reasoning in one case and accept it in a different case, why does it actually suggest he's being strategic or materially hypocritical?

I don't listen to my scumreads is why.

OK nvm, fair point. I am just trying to make sense of the Gamma-DEO connection. Maybe I am just imagining it but I feel like there's something off.

In regards to Titus, we will have have to agree to disagree about the whole meta thing. Just a final word, though -- can't scum appear sincere as well?

Tell me more about this connection.

[JaeReed]

I also have a bit of a scumlean on JR now - seems like he's been trying to figure out what happened to the NK

like "were we redirected or was it a vig. shot and we were blocked wtf happened?!?!?!"

If I were scum trying to figure out what happened I wouldn't be doing this in the main thread you potato Think about how I responded to Dunnstral being roleblocked in trials. I can't quite remember what my response was to the lack of nightkill but I remember feeling really awkward about it and not knowing the proper townie response to seeing that so I wanted to ignore it.