Open 669 - Nightless Vengeful Mayhem [Game Over]

[mozamis]

Going to try and write up a case on UD tomorrow if I have the time.

fuck this shit

vote revan

could be useless town.
but really he has done nothing all game. no inclination to find scum whatsoever.

scum revan, ud and fitz/hans

[lucca261]

sorry for not being able to get my catchup done last night, I honestly forgot it and today, had no access to the computer until now.

posting now.

[Revan]

I've done a lot actually, just haven't put it down yet. I have a lot of stuff in my head.

[mozamis]

lol

[lucca261]

Page 29

(god I am behind)

@magna, 712: I have given other scumreads other than UD. Mozamis and Superhans remain both a scumread of me and I'm willing to lynch them both today, in case we can't get a lynch on UD. I think one of them is a partner of UD. Both make sense, as Superhans and UD haven't made a lot of contact over the game and the Mozamis-UD crossvote seemed out of the blue and suspicious for me. But I don't think that a UD/Mozamis/Hans team is possible. The last scum would be inbetween Fitz/Revan/Wgeurts, with their likeability changing from who the second scum is. Of course, this is considering UD is scum. No matter how sure I am that UD is scum, there is always the possibility that I'm wrong. In that case, I would need to re-evaluate these reads.

@super, 715: as for super latest posts, I'm thinking that Mozamis is scummier than him, these days. I would lynch Mozamis before him. these posts made me feel like Super is a town member who was not taking the game seriously at the start, but now he's trying to participate, to scumhunt, even if his methods are a bit spotty.

@mozamis, 716: fuck yeah. even if is a bus, one more person on the wagon is good.

@super, 723: so you're unvoting Mozamis, then calling him scum at the end of the post? I don't get it. and call me paranoid, but both Hans and Mozamis joining UD wagon make me feel extremely unconfortable.

Page 30

@super, 725: what is your read on wgeurts at the moment, hans?

@mozamis, 730: I weirdly like this outburst.

@lucca, 734: yeah, totally.

responding to fitz catchup on another post, it was getting confusing

[lucca261]

Fitz Catchup - Page 30

@fitz, 737: holy shit.

this post is big, let's go:

first, let's answer to your questions directioned at me:

I was asking you about Hawk because your post seemed to imply that you were thinking that somebody else had benefitted from Hawk dying, but wouldn't tell who. That reminds me, I had completely forgotten that. Did you, Fitz?

@lucca...I lean town on MOI as well...but how can you definitively anoint him town without some shred of doubt? Is MOI a crap scum player who posts completely differently than he does when he is town? tl:dr; confidence is suspect.

of course I have doubts about Magna. the thing is, one of the biggest factors I try to scumhunt with is consistency. things like a player subtitly changing his reads when it benefits him, having leaps of thought with seemingly no explanation behind it, things like that. and my point about magna is that he is creepily consistent. his posts all seem to follow the same thought process, to try to find scum. he pushes everybody, at anytime, without taking things out of context. I would find extremely hard for a scum player to have such a consistent game with the length of Magna content.

but I have some paranoia about him. an experienced player like Magna could look so townie and so proactive while being scum? maybe, but his content is extremely town, and I'm willing to lynch my actual scumreads now. he is solidly town to me. the not getting lynched commentary is because, if Magna is scum, I think it would be extremely hard for someone to lynch him. he is an almost universal townread.

@lucca...If you can't see Hans and moz being scum together then would you vote Doom today? He's 3rd from the bottom of your reads list.

@lucca...WTF? "yeah Doom is town?" smh head. He could be....but how do you know that so confidently? Though in hindsight....675 was a pretty good post. Leaning Doom town seems fair. But no locks please.

my thing about doom is this: I never really had more of a null read on him. he is a strange player to read. his posts look so proactive, so helpful and he seems to be looking for scum. but some content looks faked. I don't like how seemed to line up lynches. and a lot of his proactive content, like commentating on the daykill time, is NAI.

so, almost for all game, he was a line on my readlists. up above doom, this player is null at least. under doom, this player is scum. until he had that weird vote on Magna, with the breadcrumb. this was scummy for me. I didn't buy his explanation that he was trying to get scum. so I moved him down a bit. when he answered my concerns and other players began to do more scummy things, my concerns with Doom were getting smaller, for a point that reading his posts now, I genuinely feel that he's trying to hunt for scum. so now he's my second most sure townread. even at this time, the middle of the breadcrumb stuff, I wouldn't vote him.

some posts of him that I liked are 615, 675 and 676

Annnd Hans unvotes moz. Does a Hans moz combo work?

that wasn't a question for me, but I'll answer nonetheless.

at the start of the day, with the length they were going to lynch each other, I thought that for sure they weren't scum together. but lately, with the strange unvote and sudden townread that both developed about themselves, I'm starting to get paranoid about this. as a song here in Brazil states, I'm 99% thinking that they aren't scum together, but that 1% is vagabundo. (rowdy)

what do you think about this?

---

about the post in general, I confortable now putting fitz at my townpile, at least for now. his post is incredibly consistent, he brings the points that I thought a player reading this pages would bring, and regardless if I agree or disagree with his reads, I think that they are solid, and show that he's trying to process stuff.

[lucca261]

Page 30 (continued)

@doom, 743: but that is not a rule. I've seen games (yeah, I watch games sometimes) where scum assumed the role of a townleader quite easily. I think there was a game that Thor do this very well on a newbie game I was watching. but I like that thought process coming from you.

@superhans, 746: like this from Hans too. this, combined with the sudden vote-unvote situation, make me think that he's just trigger happy with his votes. quite honestly, I like his reasoning on Revan. from his position, I think I would scumread Revan, too.

@revan, 749: please do. paranoia is starting to get me here.

Page 31

@mozamis, 750: and Mozamis already unvotes UD. interesting.

@revan, 752: talk to me. what is your scumread on UD based on?

[lucca261]

my reads:

- TOWN
Magna
Doom
Fitz
Wgeurts
Hans
Revan
Mozamis
UD
- SCUM

[Ultimate Despair]

Vote Count 1.8

**Friend Computer**

(6/6)

- wgeurts, magnaofillusion, havingfitz, doomfeathers, sesq, ultimate despair

Superhans

(2/6)

- revan, lucca261

Sesq

(1/6)

- mozamis

Revan

(1/6)

- superhans

A lynch has occurred!

Please stand by.

So basic VCA and situational analysis (FC/Sesq were probably doomed, no other wagons had much momentum other than a brief spurt towards revan) means that virtually always you're gonna have at least one, and probably two, scum in the off voters (theoretically you might even have three, but that seems unlikely IMO). The interesting question given the vote counts is whether hans/revan might actually be w/w with a nice distancing setup.

Kinda wanna mull that over for a bit.

-M

[Ultimate Despair]

I don't even get where you're coming from on point 1. We had a bunch of posts addressing and discussing Moz on day 1; are you asking us to restate our reasoning? Did you miss it? Like, what exactly are you getting at here, because it would be fairly difficult to miss our thoughts on Moz from day 1, and we have under 100 posts, so it would be hard to miss given the ISO feature. If you have questions about our read from day 1 ask them, but it's not my job to rehash previous events for your convenience.

Color me unimpressed with this response. The whole point of the exercise is to highlight what I see as fake-reads from your slot. Your ISO shows some softball questions tossed towards Moz Day 1 that supposedly pointed to a scum read. Yet today you’ve conspicuously avoided voting for the slot up until just now. And I don’t see anything in your Day 2 ISO that says “I revoked that read” (in fact you in this response squash that notion) or significant scum-hunting elsewhere (I discount your back and forth with Lucca as that is mostly driven by disproving his read on you not commenting on his alignment).

Here's the thing, though: your actual questions
1) Just asked us to restate what we'd already said
2) Misread junko's point - you seemingly interpreted that as if she was reading them without a prior opinion, as opposed to the more natural "these are my two scum reads" interpretation

So if your intention was to highlight fake reads, you did a really poor job of it, asking a "give me the info you already gave me" question, and asking a question that was seemingly based on a misinterpretation of a post. If you thought we were making fake reads, then things like "why weren't you voting", or highlighting specific posts or points that you thought were odd, would have been helpful.

It came across as busywork, and I don't think you ought to be surprised that I wasn't much interested in indulging what looked like lazy questions on your end, regardless of your tacked on "you need to answer this right away" bit

As for the bit about not voting, we were conspicuously not voting anyone at all. Do you think it's scummy to be a non-voter in a situation where we were also relatively low activity for the first week or so of the day phase, and there weren't any wagons that had grown really large? That strikes me as a pretty null bit; why do you think it's indicative?

Not a discussed vote with my hydra partner ftr, but im sure mukuro will agree given 701 and 702.

What do you think specifically is scummy about those posts?
--

I really should let junko answer for herself, but here goes

UNVOTE

HE SEEMD A BIT BLAND BUT HIS LAST FEW POSTS HAVE BEEN "SCUM HUNTERY" SO HE'S BACK TO NULL

I don't think I hate this one as much as Junko, but I'll note she made a LAMIST note about it in hydra thread

leaving p.oe
wguerts, rev, UD and fitz as possible scum
of these i wgeurts i guess is the weakest scum read, since he looked very fucking town earlier on. But as someone else mentioned, his total lack of content ment that that his towniness has evaporated.
Still, rev ud and fitz i guess makes more sense.
dan, i thought rev was looking more town so thats confusing. Still, i could vote him.
But we should focus on fitz and UD, and work out the last scummer later.

This one is worse. It's a "POE" that doesn't seem especially strong (as a simple example, the very post before, he bumped Lucca to "null", which strikes me as a poor basis of using POE to create scum reads, if you're to the point where you're dumping out null reads). It's also super hedgy on revan, while expressing an interest in focusing on fitz/us (not clear why). I'll let junko talk about if she saw more than that, but that's where my take is.

Yet aside from being occasionally scum-read there is no inclination to wagon him

Lol...so what are you saying about his lack of wagonning? That it suggests he could be scum?

Pretty much. The point being that he's such an easy target that scum would have gone after him by now were he town.

@UD if Moz flips:
Scum, who is the partner?
Town, who is the partner?

Why do you care about this? I'll admit that I occasionally do pre-flip associations when I'm in the mood, but w'ere in a game without a night kill, which means that there's probably LESS utility from this than usual. Like, say moz is lynched and flips scum and then we get day-vigged before we can talk about associations. While there would be less of a legacy on our end, there would also be the benefit that scum is out of kill shots, which strikes me as a perfectly fine outcome.
TLDR: I'm not especially in the mood to discuss pre-flip associations, although I suppose that's potentially subject to change if I get in the mood.
-M

I wanna know. Don't buy your point that it being nightless invidates this question, I think that pre flips can generate pretty insightful content.

Well, in the event that Moz flips town, I doin't know that there's anyone in particular that screams out scum due to that flip.

In the event that Moz flips scum, I'd probably want to re-read interactions and voting patterns a bit more carefully (among other things, seeing how the wagon on him actually develops as hammer gets closer might be interesting and useful). Probably Revan becomes the most obvious possibility, given the possibility of getting in on that bus early after SH vote there, but I odn't know that I feel that stronglya bout it (it's also plausibly just an opportunistic hop after the wagon on us has pretty flagrantly stalled).

That's pretty hedgy, but I don't know that I have a better answer for it rn.

-M

[Superhans]

I've done a lot actually, just haven't put it down yet. I have a lot of stuff in my head.

Name 2 things you've done.

[Superhans]

Cos saying you've been doing stuff is less effective than actually doing stuff.

[Superhans]

Vote Count 2.6

Mozamis

(3):

Superhans

, MagnaofIllusion, Ultimate Despair, havingfitz

Superhans

(2): Revan,

mozamis

, doomfeathers

Ultimate Despair

(2): lucca261, mozamis

Not Voting

(1): wgeurts, superhans

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

wgeurts & revan are being prodded.

(expired on 2017-02-04 09:00:01) until deadline.

Wguerts should vote. It's late.

[Superhans]

Going to try and write up a case on UD tomorrow if I have the time.

Revan hasn't made a scum argument on me ALL day and his vote is still on me.

If Revan doesn't have time to push UD then he'll effectively have done absolutely nothing so u better make this USlD case.

[Revan]

Before I start making my mega posts, MOO referred to me as lynchbait. On my home site, I was mislynched a lot and I came here trying to improve that. Does anyone have any tips?

[havingfitz]

Before I start making my mega posts, MOO referred to me as lynchbait. On my home site, I was mislynched a lot and I came here trying to improve that. Does anyone have any tips?

Um....participate. Talk to people. Ask and answer questions. Try to find scum. Lay low when you are scu.....

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MOD

– Is Wgeurts getting replaced? If so is deadline going to be paused while a replacement is found?

--

i'd rather lynch Revan today tbh,
like i know im going to get shit for it, cos it looks like im backing off of Moz, and I have been accused of being partners with him (im not btw @Fitz)
but i think that Revans lurking is deliberate, and scummy, think his previous post was a prod dodge. keeping his vote on me (after saying i looked better (?!)

fuck this shit
vote revan

could be useless town.
but really he has done nothing all game. no inclination to find scum whatsoever.

scum revan, ud and fitz/hans

And these are exactly the kind of posts I expected from scum after I made 738. Having gets promoted up to my likely Town pool for 743 as that is exactly the skeptical kind of approach to my post.

On the other hand but Hans and Moz are willing to just move to what might be an deadline compromise lynch. Super now gets slotted in my third scum suspects list. Moz is simply willing to hop between any of her weak POE pool happens to be getting to most current heat.

At this point of Moz doesn’t eat rope today I will be sorely disappointed …

--

Before I start making my mega posts, MOO referred to me as lynchbait. On my home site, I was mislynched a lot and I came here trying to improve that. Does anyone have any tips?

Play the game. Actually put in effort. This whole notion of “I’m doing stuff in my head” is pure crap and pretending otherwise is foolish. Long-deadline forums Mafia is a commitment of time. You haven’t given anything close to an acceptable level of engagement.

This advice applies regardless of alignment, BTW. Your play is hurting your team regardless of what your alignment is.

[Revan]

I am doing stuff in my head. I have reads, and I have opinions on who I think is scum. I just haven't gotten to a computer so I can share that with you guys.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I am doing stuff in my head. I have reads, and I have opinions on who I think is scum. I just haven't gotten to a computer so I can share that with you guys.

Then you are absolutely failing at playing forums Mafia given it is absolutely a game of written communications. This response only furthers my frustration with you as a player if you are Town. Instead of actually giving content you continue to make these empty posts.

[Ultimate Despair]

@mod: given that this is a nightless game, what exactly happens if we don't reach majority by day end? Just goes to "day 3" or is there an actual consequence?

-M

[Ultimate Despair]

I've done a lot actually, just haven't put it down yet. I have a lot of stuff in my head.

FWIW, this is basically a classic lynchbait post. I guess I'm a bit concerned that he may be intentionally playing into it after Magna called out the lynchbait possibility less than 24 hours prior though *shrugs*

-M

[Superhans]

I am doing stuff in my head. I have reads, and I have opinions on who I think is scum. I just haven't gotten to a computer so I can share that with you guys.

if u dont have a computer how r u writing this post?
also y not throw in some of your opinions while you'r making this half assed excuse?

[Superhans]

Before I start making my mega posts, MOO referred to me as lynchbait. On my home site, I was mislynched a lot and I came here trying to improve that. Does anyone have any tips?

Um....participate. Talk to people. Ask and answer questions. Try to find scum. Lay low when you are scu.....

lol subtle. u gonna vote Rev? cos i want to see it lynched.

[Superhans]

Its simple.
Just Lynch Rev.

[Revan]

I'm using my phone.

I can't put down my opinions right now because it's hard to type a lot, and format it all.