Civilization Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Agreed with Math. Picking a resolution to minimize scum harm is playing to not lose. Picking what's best for town is playing to win.

What's wrong with playing not to lose? Isn't playing optimally always better?

[Vecna]

Not losing equals winning. So picking to not loose is by definition always the superior option.

Using semantics to justify a pro-scum choice - it has been noted

[PeregrineV]

If we vote for arts were likely going to be getting wonders such as double vote, governor, lynchproof and with a bit of luck the ability that shows the ammount of scum on the winning wagon.

Most of these dont add much for town and just make figuring stuff out harder.

Its almost worth it to make the game more interesting though....Choices choices

Entertainment > logic?

Just assuming all get built every day, by day3 everyone will have something. Except holdouts. So selectivity may come in as people hold out hope for better wonders.

[Nahdia]

@mod If Arts is chosen, will a vote/lynch mechanic still be available during MYLO/LYLO?

That would depend on the specific ability in question.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

@mod If Arts is chosen, will a vote/lynch mechanic still be available during MYLO/LYLO?

Why does it seem like you're thinking so far ahead?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

The majority of the Anicent Era Wonders suck

[Leonshade]

Playing to not lose = stalling, defensive play, playing to avoid a loss.

Playing to win = pro-active, offensive play, playing to advance your win condition.

Scum can manipulate the game in all scenarios. Voting none will slightly hinder scum, but it also won't help town. Scum can strategize with five heads, but we can strategize with fifteen. Maximizing town information is good. Vote Sciences.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

We can but we most likely won't. That is asking for a lot.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Playing not to lose is playing smart. Playing to win is gambling.

[The DEO]

Playing to not lose = stalling, defensive play, playing to avoid a loss.

Playing to win = pro-active, offensive play, playing to advance your win condition.

Scum can manipulate the game in all scenarios. Voting none will slightly hinder scum, but it also won't help town. Scum can strategize with five heads, but we can strategize with fifteen. Maximizing town information is good. Vote Sciences.

Where does the setup say five players? *squints eyes*

Anyway, I am in favor of sciences but it is a personal choice on my part. I like the study of votes and their placement. One player one vote simplifies the game for me.

~Titus

[The DEO]

Sciences helps town optimize for best picks as well.

[Nahdia]

Resolution Vote 1.01

Sciences (2):

Leonshade, Elbirn

Arts (2):

Maxous, PeregrineV

None (2):

Lil Uzi Vert, Vecna

Not Voting (15):

Akane and Nebby, Fro99er, Nero Cain, Yuri, beeboy, The DEO, Creature, Drixx, Julius Caesar, ssbm_Kyouko, ooba, Sondam, NoticeMeSenpai, Albert B. Rampage, Spiffeh

With 21 players alive, it takes 11 to pass a resolution by majority.
Resolution deadline is in (expired on 2017-02-14 10:05:30), at which point the resolution will be decided via plurality.

[Sondam]

VOTE: None
Yes science helps town but it also helps scum a lot to plan I'd rather leave the game state as it is there's more town then scum these don't help us and we can get better why give scum any wiggle room at all
~Maria

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Sciences just leads to distractions. Gives scum an excuse to look like they're doing something.

[Spiffeh]

Suggestion: We publicly agree on who builds which wonder, so that everyone else can submit no build request and get a higher priority during the next era. Then those player agree on which wonders to build while everyone else sits it out, and so on.

Also, I say Sciences on the resolution.

I am strongly against this plan

This would be like only having a few power roles and all of them outing themselves immediately

Scum then know who they have to worry about and can neutralize the role that's most threatening to them

[PeregrineV]

Sciences helps town optimize for best picks as well.

Except we can't really coordinate without outing the town roles.

the closest thing would be a binary system, where someone should be able to build a wonder but they can't because they already built a scum one.

[PeregrineV]

Also, I expect some people, maybe 1 town and( definitely one scum) will be able to build more than one wonder.

[Vecna]

Town cannot deliberate on who gets what since it allows scum to optimize nightkills. Id just leads to individual deliberations, and everyone getting greedy and saving up for that one awesome thing coming next day, and then all betting on the same thing. Result: lots of stuff goes unused.

Scum can figure out how high their priority number is. Activating sciences gives scum too much power to strategize since it is far easier for them that way to make a strategy which one of them gets what.

Im a scum strategizing nerd. I can see the super-obvious benefits of Sciences for scum, and id be able to manipulate science into a big big benefit for the scum team.

It is a bad idea if theres anyone competent on the scumteam.

[Spiffeh]

VOTE: None

This should be the vote today

Sciences allows scum to plan ahead and know whether to save themselves to contest town for a certain ability in the future. They already have a numbers disadvantage so we shouldn't allow them any more information about roles than they get right now. I don't really see a benefit for town.

As for Arts, the only role I can think of that would have a significant impact on the game would be a lynchproof which only benefits scum. Things such as double votes could screw us over in LYLO/MYLO situations (though I'd hope Nahdia would design the game in a way where that couldn't happen).

[The DEO]

I full heartedly disagree. There's already awesome stuff now, and town can coordinate. There's two wonders I would want personally from this stage here. Who said wonders go up in value as time progresses?

For instance, sciences with the neighborizer can coordinate and form a masonry. Sciences with the Stonehenge can publicly cop who takes a scummy role if they die at night. The doctor can heal prime targets for good role acquisition. (If someone says, I am really good at X and wants it, the doctor can keep them alive).

It may not be traditional coordinating and leashing but it still is coordinating.

~Titus

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm a romanticist at heart.

[Albert B. Rampage]

VOTE: None

[Vecna]

I dont really see how any of those scenario's improve with sciences?

[Albert B. Rampage]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... eIsUseless

[Spiffeh]

@Titus I refuse to go another game coordinating night actions unnecessarily after The Thing Mafia. The Thing was different in that everyone's role was public knowledge so it made sense to coordinate night actions and even then, scum had a pretty easy time slipping through the cracks because of every night action being public.

What you're suggesting gives scum a roadmap as to how to proceed during the night JUST like it did in that game.