Civilization Mafia [GAME OVER]

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Like, how did scum even know that Maxous had the doctor? Because I sure had no goddamn clue, and I feel that this kill is totally not wonder-related unless I missed another subtle hint somewhere.

If you feel it's not wonder related then you should take a hard look at the fact he was townreading me.

The options:
1) Scum are continuing to whittle down the people that townread me so that there's a town or two that scumread me for mylo/lylo so I can be the game losing mislynch.
2) Scum found Maxous as doc and figured the other doc was so blatant about the protects that Maxous was more of a threat due to being a wildcard.

Add more if you like but those are the two that jump to my mind upon seeing that, especially considering I could have easily swung back to a Maxous SR if I ended up townreading you again, and with Fro99er dying N1 a Hanging Gardens claim was going to be equivalent to a scumclaim to me, and I have the feeling it would have been read that way to a few other people as well. Scum could have mislynched Maxous instead of nightkilling him, so the question is why? Ergo, one of my two options here are the main things I see viable. Number 2 might be the more likely, the first still kind of feels like I'm going crazy since no one else seems to have noticed so much.

[nancy]

Man this setup is so fucking scumsided.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Like, how did scum even know that Maxous had the doctor? Because I sure had no goddamn clue, and I feel that this kill is totally not wonder-related unless I missed another subtle hint somewhere.

There's been a LOT of claims, and Maxous's lurking fits the profile of a doctor. Though I do agree that he's still an odd kill, not the first one I would make if I was doc hunting.

Stretching this logic to its conclusion, maybe many of the claimed VTs are telling the truth, and scum is in some of the other lurkers who could fit the profile of a doctor?

And here it is, Vecna.

If you're town this is exactly what I was talking about, and I need you to seriously consider the implications of this.

[nancy]

1) Scum are continuing to whittle down the people that townread me so that there's a town or two that scumread me for mylo/lylo so I can be the game losing mislynch.
2) Scum found Maxous as doc and figured the other doc was so blatant about the protects that Maxous was more of a threat due to being a wildcard.

Neither

[NoticeMeSenpai]

In this situation, scum decided to kill Maxous. Maxous was a bold kill due to the result with Creature. So why was he chosen, if scum was trying to PR hunt, over CloudKicker, Gorkington, Senpai and nancy? nancy's been pretty loud all game, so she's a safe choice to not be doctor. Meanwhile CK, Gorkington and Senpai's slots have been much more laid back all game, and would all be good candidates for a doc hunt kill.

Conclusion: there's scum in {CK, Gork, Senpai}. I was scumreading CK anyway, but it wouldn't surprise me for there to be at least two scum here. With two/three scum in CK/Gork/Senpai, Maxous being a doc would be a pretty obvious conclusion for scum to draw.

Maxous asked to be trusted on Pine, said he thought it was a doc protect, TR me, lurked a lot.

Like, he even said Maxous was a decent doc candidate then goes and makes this post. It's gross.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

The idea that Maxous was a manipulative kill is really hard for me to believe. Even if Creature is somehow scum with davesaz or Vecna, killing Maxous for the sake of read manipulation or confusion wouldn't be worth it. If Creature + one other is scum, it's better to keep Maxous alive to either keep suspicion off the scum, or keep suspicion on Maxous.

So Maxous being killed as a result of doc hunting makes sense, and I think scum had a really good grasp on who the doc was due to the claims plus scum member PoE.

^ good post, allthough you couldve made it as scum as well. but keep em coming and I might start showing you some more love again.

Theres something more going on though........But I probably really shouldnt speculate on that.

I think I got what you meant there btw Alisae - with you not wanting to discuss it.

Really not a good post. It was obvious who Parthenon was yesterday if you bothered to read the game at all.

[nancy]

They killed Maxous because it was low info, he was never getting lyncehed and was obviously a PR. IT WAS AN OPTIMAL KILL. THINK ABOUT WHAT THIS MEANS

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Great Wall was the only ascetic Wonder IIRC, so roleblocker it is.

I also feel like a town!Leon would have recognized the fakeclaim there for what it was. RC does that shit all the time to try to avoid being nightkilled.

Caveat being if he hasn't really played with RC it's NAI, it's just a really quick conclusion to jump to here I think, just assuming that RC didn't lie about being basically 1s bp as a player with an ego and a history of being nightkilled? Hell, as a player who said multiple times last day phase he was dead that night, even.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

We are unsurprised that you would so pervert the truth, Leonshade. The function of Chichen Itza is dependent on successful targeting of both subjects, so choosing anyone who had built a Great Wall would likely cause the action to fail. While We concur that the failure was possibly due to the action of a roleblocker, as your treasonous friends would almost certainly prioritize the defeat of Senator davesaz, the possible existence of a Great Wall would also stymie the effort. Your dismissal of such a possibility speaks to a desire to paint a false narrative.

We are most sorely wroth that Our mandated conviction against the scoundrel Leonshade failed not once but twice in the previous session, almost certainly due to the distracting influence of his evil friends. We shall be researching the Senate record in an attempt to identify them.

+1000000000000

[NoticeMeSenpai]

nancy, I have the house to myself tonight, once I finish catching up can we OP?

[nancy]

Here is what I need before the day can continue:

1. Whomever has Forbidden Palace to claim immediately
2. Whomever has Leaning Tower to full claim immediately
3. Creature to claim his target
4. davesaz to claim his targets
5. Aslan to tell me they will ride this game on their Caesar read
6. CK to come in here and gamesolve and answer my question wrt Leonshade

pedit YES PLEASE OH MY GOD

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Maxous was hard defending Ceasar and that's about all I see in their iso. If scum wanted to take forbidden palace away from him then it makes sense to kill Maxous to make that mislynch easier.

Point. Good.

pedit <3 ily

[NoticeMeSenpai]

i read last pages, the doc pool analysis was good, i just think leon is discarding that doc might claim vts

No it wasn't, it was trying to set up to mislynch town's remaining doctor.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Somewhere in a dark alley both Notice and Gorkington are evilly laughing

It was 9am and the day had just started but ok, sure.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Maybe we should listen to the guy that wasn't all over a bunch of mislynches.

Me, then?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Math help I feel like giving up, give me motivation.

Spoiler:

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Like, id sign in a heartbeat for a NoticeMeSenpai wagon.....

and id be like 65% certain we'd just get a scum easy like that.

yeahhh you're not even trying at this stage. I'll still keep talking to Ali about the read on you to bounce off and see if I'm wrong but I am pretty much done.

If you're town this loss is entirely on your head, you've led town to fucking ruins over and over and over again, you've promised to re-evaluate based on what I've said then picked fights for the sake of picking them with me so that you can justify your shit ass read on me.

[Leonshade]

Leon you have no structure built correct?

Correct. Now I'm going to borrow Vecna's shtick for a moment.

I HAVE PRIORITY AND I'M GOING TO TRY TO BUILD THE VIGILANTE WONDER. AT LEAST ONE OTHER TOWN PLAYER WITH PRIORITY SHOULD ATTEMPT TO DO THE SAME. BY THIS POINT IT'S OBVIOUS THAT SCUM TOOK THE FORBIDDEN PALACE, ALLOWING THEM TO BLOCK ONE TOWN PLAYER FROM ATTEMPTING TO BUILD A WONDER TODAY. SCUM HAVE A REALLY GOOD GRASP ON THE TOWN'S WONDERS AT THIS POINT, AT THIS POINT THERE'S NO USE ATTEMPTING TO HIDE WHO WILL TRY TO BUILD WHAT. THEY WILL BE ABLE TO GET THE VIGILANTE IF ONLY ONE TOWNIE GOES FOR IT, WE MUST HAVE AT LEAST TWO TOWN ATTEMPT IT.

SCUM GETTING THE STRONGMAN VIG COULD MEAN GAME OVER IF WE MISLYNCH, WE MUST SACRIFICE PRIORITY TO NOT LOSE TONIGHT.

DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY OBJECTIONS TO THIS PLAN?

[Gorkington]

Unclaimed
CloudKicker

Gorkington

NoticeMeSenpai
nancy
Maxous

ftfy.

also still wonderless.

also also feeling like a muddled mess.
i really need to stare at this game for a few hours tonight
and would really like to condense thoughts when ive got my head back into this

as motivation, ive definitely actually created a program that will automatically post my address, SIN # and credit card information if i fail.
feel free to throw rocks at me IRL/destroy my credit/steal my identity if im still being a sack of shit.
you need to do this for me.
as true friends.

[Leonshade]

Re: RC's reactions to thinking Nero could be the IC. At this point it's clear that scum has the Forbidden Palace, so if RC is scum, he would've known that Nero wasn't about to claim IC. Reading the reactions with that in mind, do you think that RC's reactions are genuine, or good on-the-spot improv?

My gut says the former, but I'm thinking RC is town anyway, so it could just be confbias. Would be interested to hear what others think of RC's reactions, if anything.

[Leonshade]

Oh, you did claim VT. I had that in my notes at one point, but ctrl + Fing "vt" I found nothing, should've searched for "wonder" instead.

[nancy]

DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY OBJECTIONS TO THIS PLAN?[/size][/b]

Yes. Stop rolefishing.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

There was also this thing where Notice came out to do a WEIRD WEIRD townread on Gin, and later claimed it was some reaction test - which apparently he wanted Ali to cover for. Writing this, it could also look something like this I guess:

Scumteam 2:
Leonshade
Alisae
RC
Notice
Gorkington

Which Ali can back up, yeah, but you only need to look at the fact that I also ran a reaction test on him to see if he'd claim a scum wonder when he replaced in to know that I'm telling the truth there.

Also, this team holds zero thought whatsoever.
Leonshade can't be scum with me.
Gork replaced Elbirn who can't be scum with me.
There's also no way I'd tie myself this heavily to Ali if we were scum together.

Not to mention the plain facts that Alisae and RC just can't be scum in this game.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Davesaz, are you waiting for instructions in the scumchat or something?

Cmon man, out those targets already.

I'm waiting to see what my targets say, in particular if they guess they were targets. I think there are now 8 pages I haven't read, and it's dinner time.

RC/Vecna

[Leonshade]

I will not agree to a Vecna lynch today. The possibility of him being scum isn't completely closed to me, but I still think he's most likely town.

Netherlands

You should have a Dutch scummeet, by which I mean you should hang out with McMenno.

The one person we should lynch on principle though is Ceasar.

VOTE: Ceasar

We're not lynching anyone on principle in potential MYLO. We need a scumflip now more than ever.

I changed my mind slightly. I just don't think a townLeon would have been that hard to lynch.

I went to L-1, and while the people you're claiming are my buddies could've hammered me (and made a point not to), davesaz and Maxous had the opportunity to hammer as well. I could've been lynched at any point.

Narrative = events that happened so far.

I think its Nancy, RC, Ali and Leon. Like I have a hard time seeing a town Leon being so hard to lynch/spawned a shit ton of counterwagons. I know you'll argue that you town read him so you "stopped" the lynch but I don't think you have that much authority. RC is scum for trying to strongarm a mislynch sans any reasoning and his pushing to be investigated and then claiming great wall was scummy. Nancy is scummy for a multitude of reasons but that "RC is bussing Nero so lets lynch Nero" that her and Ali are pushing is scummy as F. The fact that RC doesn't even give a shit that they are scumreading him says alot.

oh, did I mention that Nancy, Ali and Leon have been on a bunch of mislynches?

As have most everyone else. As are multiple town players in every mafia game ever. How is this relevant?

The idea that we should sheep you because you've avoided being on most mislynch wagons is ridiculous. Easier for scum to do that (a point Math already made).

If you are town: who do you see as scum, assuming I'm town? If I flipped town, would any of your other reads change?