Civilization Mafia [GAME OVER]

[nancy]

LUV if you want to prove that you're Town you should get Big Ben and cop someone for a guilty.

[Vecna]

Elbrin's replace out was pretty town yet Gork is being scum read.

Lolwut? Elbrin's replace out is one of the main reasons people have been scumreading the slot so badly. That shit was more slippery than an eel in an oilstore.

Gorkington being able to salvage the slot (or trick me in the way he did) is quite the godsent.

Why would tricking you be a godsend?
Wouldn't that be a bad thing?
What has Gork done to "salvage the slot"?

Already explained three times, browse my iso.

[MathBlade]

nancy if you're townreading Vecna you should wait for his plan.

[nancy]

OK. But to be frank I'd rather follow RC's plans.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I don't need to prove I'm town because I am obviously town.

I am only going for vig or the blocking Wonder. Big Ben is asking us to lynch correctly today.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Which is why I thought scum had Hanging Gardens tbh, since Fro99er was a bit of a no brainer I think? He was the most widely townread and willing to work with others even if he was all over the place.
My experience with PV is he doesn't get nightkilled early in the game but rather left for a lategame mislynch or nightkill. (Shadorun, Undertale) I really wasn't thinking of him as a viable protect given that, though Ali reamed me somewhat on not protecting PV when I claimed to him.
Kyouko wouldn't have died because he was being pushed on, he was lynchbait, so there's no point in protecting him there imo. I don't remember him ever having good reads in my mini normal either tbh. Him and Creature would have been seen as mislynchable, where Caesar I would have thought could normally put up a fight against his lynch. Once I realized he was seen as mislynchable as well I moved on to the obvtown neighborizer protect. I'm still not entirely sure Pine was targeted over Ali tbh. Unless scum got fed up with him not getting mislynched and decided to off him that way instead?

Anyway fair warning, my grandmother was in a place hit by a cyclone recently, tore roofs off houses and such, so I might end up V/LA since when we managed to get her on the phone just now she broke down... I might fly up to see if there's anything I can do once they allow flights there again. I'll announce it here if/when it happens and PM the mod but yeah.

And you didnt think this was suspicious, given the fact PV ended up dead?

Also, gl with the grandmother situation, thats rough.

Not saying I didn't find it suspicious. I mentioned it to Ali in the hood at the time but he pointed out that PV prior to that was obvtown and I tried to reason out the possibilities and found the nightkill to be most probable. It's not impossible for PV to be scum, I haven't ruled it out, but I'd rather go forward here thinking we don't have a scum flip yet because janitored flips are really hard for me to deal with. If he is scum then it's going to come out when we lynch scum and see his and their reactions around each other eventually I think.

Thanks, man.

[MathBlade]

Again Vecna how is the plan coming? Will it be ready tomorrow ? Three days?

I ask not to rush but an ETA. I also want to analyze what you are thinking more.

[MathBlade]

OK. But to be frank I'd rather follow RC's plans.

It isn't about whether you'd follow it.

It is about analyzing Vecna's thoughts and keeping it to its promise.

He needs to sell us a plan.

[Vecna]

I visited Nancy, with the IF being a tracker visit, which cannot happen anymore.

I thought the whole point of you claiming to visit Nancy was to get a game breaking event of basically catching scum trying to shoot her so you targeted her and a dead tracker. You are going to have to explain this to me like I'm 2 or just requote your stuffs.

I got the impression that Vecna said he did what he did to get proof that Creature is town and RB'd him. None of it logically makes sense. It will be interesting reading the next 17 pages to see if this has been answered, and how. It's fun replying inline with catchups this way, I might change to doing it this way all the time.

Vecna is just scum but if he'll bus nancy and fix his reads then I'm okay with him inventing bullshit. It's obviously bullshit. No townie goes I'm going to test Creature's roleblock when scum wouldn't claim the goddamn roleblock in the first place XD

Like Vecna's grasping for straws at this point when the simplest answer is

Alisae is town for D1 claim.
Senpai is obvious town doc.
Leonshade wagon had scum on it.
Davesaz is parity cop or scum meaning that Davesaz and Creature are same alignment. Further meaning why the hell would dave protect those two slots not under suspicion? Maxous yeah but Creature...cmon
RC is town because Drixx.

This entire day has been trying to get me to bend on obvTown so they have lynches later. C'mon. Both wagons are slow because they are scum.

Youre missing the obvious point; Maxous wasnt dead yet when I sent in my hagia sofia order to confirm whether creature roleblocked me, so I simply did not know whether the Davesaz result was on double town or double scum. If you read my posts before night youll see my reads there were heavily favoured towards them being scum together so I was expecting creature to RB davesaz instead of me as he claimed - so I wanted to creature a small opportunity to catch him.

That doesn't make sense though. It relies on a mystical idea of Red Fort nancy never crumbed or expressed desire of building.

It does make sense, since I had nothing to do with the wonder anyway, so it was a freeride to try and guess who mightve built it. Noone had given any such indication, so I took the person I could come up with any reason whatsoever. I knew it was a longshot, ive stated this every single time.

Eye for the small details. Very low probability of succes, but if it does work out it instantly catches a scum. So I had to at least try, no?

[Vecna]

I expressed my view that scum took the roleblocker. I also have no idea whether scum have daychat or not. I'm going to go off of my reads before I worry about setup spec.

And FTR: I'm starting to feel it's very unlikely that scum have the original vig role.

I agree with this. Either that, or theyre full now.

Or somehow none of the 5 picked daychat, which is why someone just thought "oh let me pick this zimbabwe wonder.

These are all so far-fetched though.....

Doesnt it make you question your Nancy read -at all?-

Because I feel it really should.

[RadiantCowbells]

Man I've thought about it but my read here outweighs any setup spec. I once copped someone and still knew that they were scum and outed with my result saying that they were godfather and they were in fact godfather.

I still think it's more likely some really weird shit happened wrt scum strategy than that I am misreading nancy here.

[Vecna]

@LUV So you're arguing scum sent out the widely scumread player to do the nightkill where their day game has been good enough that we haven't lynched scum yet.
Because I don't think the way the game has gone so far points to scum being that stupid when they'd likely know the roleblocker is town, and I don't buy that scum wouldn't have tried to build the roleblocker.
Like, if scum haven't bussed by now what makes you think they'd do something designed for a setup to bus?

No the game points to scum being cocky, so yes, I can buy them sending Gork.

Ok what about the game points to scum being cocky here then?

Maybe the 7-0 sweep.

Also, you clearly don't understand what "cocky" means.

The game being 7-0 doesn't point to scum being cocky unless we flip scum that was being cocky. You're assuming that scum would be cocky at this point because you would be, and even if you think scum are cocky this game? The main person I can think that fits with that is Vecna. Who you townread.

Doing a fake replace out does not a cocky scum make.

That was genuine frustration.

[Vecna]

nancy -- Vecna scum do you see it now?

If you really think that if Nancy is scum, RC is town - youre being blind to whats happening.

Theyre either HARD HARD town together, or running this game as scum together. Either way, one of your 3 reads in NANCY/NERO/RC is -wrong-.

There is absolutely no alternative. Your scumread on me clouds every single judgement you have.

It is a sad sight for sore eyes.

[MathBlade]

nancy -- Vecna scum do you see it now?

If you really think that if Nancy is scum, RC is town - youre being blind to whats happening.

Theyre either HARD HARD town together, or running this game as scum together. Either way, one of your 3 reads in NANCY/NERO/RC is -wrong-.

There is absolutely no alternative. Your scumread on me clouds every single judgement you have.

It is a sad sight for sore eyes.

Oh Vecna I am pushing everyone not confTown to me.

[Vecna]

does nancy/nero both being scum even make sense?
that whole interaction with them earlier was just scum theater?

Im starting to believe less and less that its not a bus yeah...

You realize I had suggested this before right and you laughed and called me crazy?

(Paraphrase)

How is the plan Vecna?

Making it after done with my night-catchup

[Vecna]

nancy -- Vecna scum do you see it now?

I can see a world where Vecna is scum but it's still a very far-away one. Need to do more work in PT to see if I can make sense of it, there was a point in this game where I was scumreading him so I have to go back and look at what that was I suppose and reason out the read all over again. He's not locktown, but I'm still TRing him. I have no idea what is going on with his progression right now.

My progression is this; My read on you screams town to the high heavens.

Mechanically, it makes ZERO sense.

RC being town here that doesnt believe in mechanics and trusts his reads over everything would totally explain this, but it still means that scum wouldve HAD to take the Great Zimbabwe. Dont you find this strange yourself Nancy? Because noone claimed it, and town wouldnt hide it while seeing you get lynched.

And for scum to take the great Zimbabwe, it means that NONE of them shouldve taken the daychat wonder during day1. It makes no sense otherwise, unless they fully predicted that they could frame someone with it and predicted the mass-claim.

[Vecna]

me/luv taking vig, nancy/leon taking big ben, and caesar going for rolestopper, sure

This, except I go for priority. Keep in mind if there is more than 1 Town in the vig pool we basically autolose.

When we can prove scum took neighborizer there is a 0% chance of you not being lynched because then we know scum don't have the first vig as I know suspect they don't.

Stop being survivalistic.

Name the scum team.

I'm still catching up btw, not totally up to date on thread. If you want me to guess at the scumteam, I can.


{Aslan, Caesar, Cowbells, Leonshade, MathBlade, Notice, PV} - locktown
{Creature, Vecna}
{}
{} - null
{Gorkington}
{}
{CK, davesaz, LUV, Nero} - lockscum

One of my Towns might be scum. Creature would be the likeliest candidate, if I had to pick one.

My best guess at a team: {CK, davesaz, Gorkington, LUV, Nero}

Why is ceasar lock-town in this? And how can you be so certain about Davesaz?

Those are old reads from nancy

I don't see why you and nancy are talking as if they are current ones?

Math this is how I post if I missed 15 pages while I was sleeping. You should know that by now. I start where I left off, and I love comment on anything that I read that I want to comment on.

Im nearly to the end and ready to live chat again.

[Vecna]

Nancy talk to me about the following; What happened to the great zimbabwe? Im only here scumreading you because of that inconsistency. Like, did scum just go all in just to frame you? It doesnt make sense.....I can totally see the great wall being on Nero. ugh.

I cannot see a scenario where they have a plausible way to get both vigs, and can dedicate everything to frame you for a mislynch today.

What inconsistency? How is me not getting Zimbabwe a frame? I wouldn't be surprised if scum went for it, that wonder was fucking imbalanced as hell.

Youre not aware we did a full claim? Everyone claimed Nancy.

Im about to make a plan that relies on either you being scum, or scum having that wonder.

ÍF THERE IS ANY TOWN IN THE GREAT ZIMBABWE WONDER, CLAIM SO FFS

One will do.

[Vecna]

Someone needs to actually attempt to build forbidden palace.

It will be in the plan, dont worry.

Although if scum are smart, it was a pretty strong build regardless for them.

So many possible scenario's here.

This game is absolutely amazing and a total abomination at the same time.

[Vecna]

@nancy so Dave is logically Town? Along with Creature?

Nah if Nancy is town.....

Then people are majorly WRONG either about

Alisae + Notice town duo

OR

Davesaz (+ creature) town duo.

There is no other way.

And if you'd just let go of that silly scumread of mine, you'd see this.

There has to be an error somewhere math

THERE HAS TO BE AN ERROR SOMEWHERE IN YOUR ASSUMPTIONS

YOU NEED TO SEE IT.

My scumread of you is based on your play.

Those are all lock Town to me.

Me + Alisae+BaeReed+Dave+Creature = 5 lock Town

RC likely town makes 6.

Caesar is scum or someone got Forbidden Palace to stop him.

Mathblade, your scumread of me is because youve suspected it since the start of the game, and you've looked at everything ive done from that point of view.

Notice and Nero are the only other persons scumreading me this game. Do you really think youre -that- much better than anyone else at attributing scum to my playstyle? Because its nonsense, all my actions have a very clear town-mindset behind it.

I can explain the town-mindset behind EVERYTHING that ive done. And ive tried to do so every step of the way. Youre getting to the place where you have started to question your read on me, I can feel it. You need to push through.

[nancy]

This game is absolutely amazing and a total abomination at the same time.

Yes.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Doing a fake replace out does not a cocky scum make.

That was genuine frustration.

I'm saying cocky scum would announce the wonder they built and do all the large colorful writing shit that you're doing. /That/ is cocky (regardless of alignment, mind, I do think your play is the embodiment of cocky).

I believe LUV is just guessing on the mindframe of scum rather than actually knowing it. Or idunno, maybe I'm wrong and LUV is right that scum feel cocky right now. Cocky scum would most likely fit with you though, no? Or nightkilling PV I guess after stealing Drixx's self janitor treestump and not claiming to get copped. I'm trying to point out to LUV that if he's right in scum feeling cocky then I believe a townread is misplaced.

[Vecna]

My issue at this point is that I'm running out of potential scum slots.

I honestly am starting to think it's not impossible that Peregrine is actually scum

I know how you feel, but its still rather possible for there to be a scumteam without him.

Leon/Nero/Dave/CK/Ceasar

Makes complete sense with everything.

In fact, id totally expect this group of people to be the type NOT to pick up daychat since theyre all little ego-maniacs ( ) that want all-star wonders.

That would explain why they had to pick up the great zimbabwe later. And why Nancy is now in the shitter.

[nancy]

Gorkington didn't claim btw. Nor did CK.

[MathBlade]

My issue at this point is that I'm running out of potential scum slots.

I honestly am starting to think it's not impossible that Peregrine is actually scum

I know how you feel, but its still rather possible for there to be a scumteam without him.

Leon/Nero/Dave/CK/Ceasar

Makes complete sense with everything.

In fact, id totally expect this group of people to be the type NOT to pick up daychat since theyre all little ego-maniacs ( ) that want all-star wonders.

That would explain why they had to pick up the great zimbabwe later. And why Nancy is now in the shitter.

No it doesn't.

It doesn't explain Dave giving us two conf towns needlessly.

Cmon Vecna you were closer then this ....

*sigh*