Team Mafia 2018: Game 3 - Random GIFs Game Over

[UC Voyager]

mulch is 100% sure skirt skirt is scum. like. he is screaming at me

VOTE: skirt

mulch reads are the best reads

especially when he knows the person's scum game plus the rest of my team agrees for the most part

[Mathdino]

VOTE: UC Voyager
VOTE: UC Voyager
VOTE: UC Voyager
VOTE: UC Voyager
VOTE: UC Voyager
VOTE: UC Voyager

[UC Voyager]

VOTE: UC Voyager

You wanna start answering my questions?

1. quesion

2. i dont really want to tbh. i would rathe rbe playing overwatch claiming to plat, but i will answer them

mulch is 100% sure skirt skirt is scum. like. he is screaming at me

VOTE: skirt

You have yet to give me input from Creature. Has he been reading the thread?

If so, please post any thoughts he's had on the game since the start (and around what page we were on when he had those thoughts).

okay

1. I just asked


2. Town reading you myself. this seems like your town meta and some of my team mates agree. plus i feel your more likely to pick town than scum tbh

[Mathdino]

So you're saying he hasn't been reading the thread?

That's a rephrased version of an earlier question I asked. Please answer that.

Give specifics as to when Creature has provided input.

[T-Bone]

I am altering the posting levels. Pray I do not alter them any further.

Spoiler: Very Important Message

[UC Voyager]

ok


sheep says dino is meta town


mulch says to fuck off creature who is asleep right now because they live in Brazil. and have multiple other games to attend to

[Mathdino]

I'm not asking you to have Creature read the thread literally this second.

I'm asking you when he has provided input in the past, and if he has been reading this thread.

I've twice requested specifically him to be reading this game.

[Bulbazak]

"As for Skirt, he called me town before I even started posting, and then preceded to buddy up to me in subsequent posts. LLD has already pointed out how his entrance sounds fake, and Math has picked up on the discrepancy as well. He's tryharding, but in all the worst ways."

Where did i call you town? Where did i buddy up to you? On what planet am I tryharding?

Spoiler: This is buddying

Bulbazak, From Queue Agents - good.php

I hadn't posted as of this point in the game, and I don't have any recollection of ever having played with you. This felt like you trying to preemptively get on my good side. Looking back on it, probably not a townread per se, but I don't think it was meant to come across as a scum read.

I would take scum if we rolled scum (lol we all rolled town I stg not that you know that) if we valued winning over everything because I have a significantly better scum wr than my team afaik, but I wouldn't if we were playing more socially and for fun.

I adamantly believe Keychain and Dunker are town off of this game, Radja I guess I agree. Bins from what I remember hates scum so yea that's fine too. Don't know CDB or T-Bone play-wise at all so no comment.

UCV... I guess.

No clue for bulba

. LLD, A50, Smoke, definitely realistic for scum. I haven't actually seen A50s scum game I don't think, but iirc Chara said A50 is their scummer?

Math pushes you on the last post and says that I'm good as scum. There is a slight backpedal here, I think, but you definitely didn't want to let go of that potential townread and buddying opportunity on my slot.

Caught up, and Keychain is still kinda nebulous. I'm going to keep an eye there, but not interested in pushing that yet. I thought Elena might be panicking scum trying to squash Math's team analysis (which is actually relevant to Team Mafia). That seems like something I feel scum would do if events were turning against them. But then she did that reversal on LLD after much discussion, and I really can't see Elena-scum doing that, especially when keeping a vote on LLD would be so easy to do at this point in the game, and I really don't think LLD could apply enough pressure to turn the tides on Elena. At best, she'd get a LLD lynch, and at worse, she'd just look like hard headed town. There's really nothing to lose, so her changing her read is a town sign.

As for Skirt, he called me town before I even started posting, and then preceded to buddy up to me in subsequent posts. LLD has already pointed out how his entrance sounds fake, and Math has picked up on the discrepancy as well. He's tryharding, but in all the worst ways.

Vote Skirt skirt

bit of a reach

How so? If it's about Skirt, I'm a little sensitive to buddying, as I've had scum pocket me too many times by playing up to me. So when Skirt, someone that I don't think I've ever played with, enters into the game and immediately begins kissing up to me before I even show up, my scumdar goes off like crazy.

bulbazak scum lean because burden of being good is you don't get away with stupid ass pushes like that

And this is essentially what Skirt did when LLD started pushing him. He attacked her immediately as scum, and when she kept up the push and others were coming around, he changed his tune. I almost wonder if the same thing is going to happen to me, or whether he'll feel the need this time to put all his eggs in this one lynch, especially since Math is backing his play this time.

Bulbazak's entrance is completely and 100% NAI, which is fairly concerning.

How so? Were you expecting more from a post that was essentially "I'm here and caught up! Oh, and here's a little of where I'm at."?

I adamantly believe Keychain and Dunker are town off of this game

Dunker hadn't yet posted by the time that you made this post. Why did you already believe that he is town?

This is the same issue I'm having with his position on me early game, and I don't buy Skirt's reasoning for that statement a la Dunker.

That logicky post is pinging me in all sortso f ways. Feels like an overexplanation of an analysis on not all that much source material in the first place. Makes him look active/helpful without really advancing the game (because fundamentally, it's just saying why he's hopping on a wagon).

I admit the post was probably janky. I was trying to both get into the game and give some of my thoughts at the same time after having read 10 pages. I mean, I could have just given reads without explanation, but after Surreptitious, I'm trying to explain my thought process a bit more, because apparently, what I think is really obvious ends up being not so for most people. So if I have some reasoning for a read, I'm going to at least try saying a bit of how I came to that conclusion. If it's all still a bit vague in my head still, or if I'm wanting to withhold the reasoning for the moment, I'll just give a quick read and leave it at that.

Did you have issues with my reads in general? I wanted to give an idea where I was with 2 of the reads I had given in the previous post, and I had just gotten a strong townread on Elena for none gut reasons. Unless you somehow thought I was going to give general reads on every player in the game, I think what I gave was pretty on par with how I normally enter, even if I explained more of my reads than I normally did.

skirt is honestly still probably scum

I actually have a problem with this if you are saying that you somehow are scumreading

both

of us.

@Bulbazak:

Up to what point in the thread had mastina read and offered opinions?

I glanced over what Mastina said, and I don't really think she's said much about this game so far. She's mostly focusing on a couple of the other games, as well as hers. I'm sure we'll talk later, but given our conversations in the spoiled PT of the Mod is Mafia, she just may let me do my own thing unless I ask a question of the team or she sees something she thinks is important.

I need to go to bed soon, but there were a few questions I forgot to ask this afternoon. So I'm going to look back over everything real quick and make sure I post them before I leave for the night.

[skirt skirt]

mulch is 100% sure skirt skirt is scum. like. he is screaming at me

VOTE: skirt

ok the rest of my team also thinks he i scum for the most part.
like

mulch 100%
creature 99%
sheep 80%
me and quick dont know

quick and creature should have me as town. tell creature to think it over more, he often scumreads me right away but correctly flips it soon after. mulch is spitereading me, please don't lie about that.

[Dunkerdoodles]

mulch is 100% sure skirt skirt is scum. like. he is screaming at me

VOTE: skirt

mulch reads are the best reads

especially when he knows the person's scum game plus the rest of my team agrees for the most part

sorry i thought the sarcasm was obvious

[skirt skirt]

"As for Skirt, he called me town before I even started posting, and then preceded to buddy up to me in subsequent posts. LLD has already pointed out how his entrance sounds fake, and Math has picked up on the discrepancy as well. He's tryharding, but in all the worst ways."

Where did i call you town? Where did i buddy up to you? On what planet am I tryharding?

Spoiler: This is buddying

Bulbazak, From Queue Agents - good.php

I hadn't posted as of this point in the game, and I don't have any recollection of ever having played with you. This felt like you trying to preemptively get on my good side. Looking back on it, probably not a townread per se, but I don't think it was meant to come across as a scum read.

I would take scum if we rolled scum (lol we all rolled town I stg not that you know that) if we valued winning over everything because I have a significantly better scum wr than my team afaik, but I wouldn't if we were playing more socially and for fun.

I adamantly believe Keychain and Dunker are town off of this game, Radja I guess I agree. Bins from what I remember hates scum so yea that's fine too. Don't know CDB or T-Bone play-wise at all so no comment.

UCV... I guess.

No clue for bulba

. LLD, A50, Smoke, definitely realistic for scum. I haven't actually seen A50s scum game I don't think, but iirc Chara said A50 is their scummer?

Math pushes you on the last post and says that I'm good as scum. There is a slight backpedal here, I think, but you definitely didn't want to let go of that potential townread and buddying opportunity on my slot.

Caught up, and Keychain is still kinda nebulous. I'm going to keep an eye there, but not interested in pushing that yet. I thought Elena might be panicking scum trying to squash Math's team analysis (which is actually relevant to Team Mafia). That seems like something I feel scum would do if events were turning against them. But then she did that reversal on LLD after much discussion, and I really can't see Elena-scum doing that, especially when keeping a vote on LLD would be so easy to do at this point in the game, and I really don't think LLD could apply enough pressure to turn the tides on Elena. At best, she'd get a LLD lynch, and at worse, she'd just look like hard headed town. There's really nothing to lose, so her changing her read is a town sign.

As for Skirt, he called me town before I even started posting, and then preceded to buddy up to me in subsequent posts. LLD has already pointed out how his entrance sounds fake, and Math has picked up on the discrepancy as well. He's tryharding, but in all the worst ways.

Vote Skirt skirt

bit of a reach

How so? If it's about Skirt, I'm a little sensitive to buddying, as I've had scum pocket me too many times by playing up to me. So when Skirt, someone that I don't think I've ever played with, enters into the game and immediately begins kissing up to me before I even show up, my scumdar goes off like crazy.

bulbazak scum lean because burden of being good is you don't get away with stupid ass pushes like that

And this is essentially what Skirt did when LLD started pushing him. He attacked her immediately as scum, and when she kept up the push and others were coming around, he changed his tune. I almost wonder if the same thing is going to happen to me, or whether he'll feel the need this time to put all his eggs in this one lynch, especially since Math is backing his play this time.

Bulbazak's entrance is completely and 100% NAI, which is fairly concerning.

How so? Were you expecting more from a post that was essentially "I'm here and caught up! Oh, and here's a little of where I'm at."?

I adamantly believe Keychain and Dunker are town off of this game

Dunker hadn't yet posted by the time that you made this post. Why did you already believe that he is town?

This is the same issue I'm having with his position on me early game, and I don't buy Skirt's reasoning for that statement a la Dunker.

That logicky post is pinging me in all sortso f ways. Feels like an overexplanation of an analysis on not all that much source material in the first place. Makes him look active/helpful without really advancing the game (because fundamentally, it's just saying why he's hopping on a wagon).

I admit the post was probably janky. I was trying to both get into the game and give some of my thoughts at the same time after having read 10 pages. I mean, I could have just given reads without explanation, but after Surreptitious, I'm trying to explain my thought process a bit more, because apparently, what I think is really obvious ends up being not so for most people. So if I have some reasoning for a read, I'm going to at least try saying a bit of how I came to that conclusion. If it's all still a bit vague in my head still, or if I'm wanting to withhold the reasoning for the moment, I'll just give a quick read and leave it at that.

Did you have issues with my reads in general? I wanted to give an idea where I was with 2 of the reads I had given in the previous post, and I had just gotten a strong townread on Elena for none gut reasons. Unless you somehow thought I was going to give general reads on every player in the game, I think what I gave was pretty on par with how I normally enter, even if I explained more of my reads than I normally did.

skirt is honestly still probably scum

I actually have a problem with this if you are saying that you somehow are scumreading

both

of us.

@Bulbazak:

Up to what point in the thread had mastina read and offered opinions?

I glanced over what Mastina said, and I don't really think she's said much about this game so far. She's mostly focusing on a couple of the other games, as well as hers. I'm sure we'll talk later, but given our conversations in the spoiled PT of the Mod is Mafia, she just may let me do my own thing unless I ask a question of the team or she sees something she thinks is important.

I need to go to bed soon, but there were a few questions I forgot to ask this afternoon. So I'm going to look back over everything real quick and make sure I post them before I leave for the night.

if you're town, mastina should sort me for you. I called you a good player because you are, that's not a townread in any sense of the word. that's not buddying.

that said, this post locks in my scumread of you. it's pretty awful. mote when I'm not baked.

[Dunkerdoodles]

mulch is 100% sure skirt skirt is scum. like. he is screaming at me

VOTE: skirt

ok the rest of my team also thinks he i scum for the most part.
like

mulch 100%
creature 99%
sheep 80%
me and quick dont know

quick and creature should have me as town. tell creature to think it over more, he often scumreads me right away but correctly flips it soon after. mulch is spitereading me, please don't lie about that.

nvm eddie is scum
VOTE: skirt skirt

[UC Voyager]

I'm not asking you to have Creature read the thread literally this second.

I'm asking you when he has provided input in the past, and if he has been reading this thread.

I've twice requested specifically him to be reading this game.

) Elena is most likely to choose scum from her team 2) eddie succesfully pocketed someone 3) Mathdino's reads seem pretty good 4) We want eddie cane pushed but I'm not 99% 5) Keychain was scummy but then he thinks he must be misreading them 6) LLD is scummy 7) Early game called LLD, skirt skirt, keychain 8) bulba is town 9) almost50 is town cause playing like open 707 10) Bins is town 11) Dunkerdoodles feels town
all posted by creature



here

[T-Bone]

Math, this is getting problematic. I'm not going to start a back and forth with you about it...and this isn't another 'meta is trash' thing. I really don't like how insistent you are in communicating with player(s) not in this game. I get why you might do it as town...but it is plenty clear why someone might do it as scum. This is my 'this specific thing is pinging me' post to alert other players though. It's not really aimed at you (despite being addressed to you, because it sounds better grammatically that way), so please carry on.

Edit: Oh and then Skirt does the same thing lololol...I don't know if he's mimicking Math on purpose or...

[Dunkerdoodles]

mulch is 100% sure skirt skirt is scum. like. he is screaming at me

VOTE: skirt

ok the rest of my team also thinks he i scum for the most part.
like

mulch 100%
creature 99%
sheep 80%
me and quick dont know

quick and creature should have me as town. tell creature to think it over more, he often scumreads me right away but correctly flips it soon after. mulch is spitereading me, please don't lie about that.

nvm eddie is scum
VOTE: skirt skirt

this is so out of norm for eddie

[Mathdino]

K now we're on a roll.

@Bulba:
Re: skirt: I thought he used "good.php" to say you're good at scum, dude. Will wait for skirt to respond to this tho.

Re: skirt voting you: I guess you could say I'm backing by canvassing votes for your wagon but he's pretty clearly scummy and I pointed out his repeated sheeping when he did it.

Re: Your entrance: I think I was expecting more interaction. You had a lot of words but little content. Talking about yourself in a way that I don't really think was necessary. Most of us know that you getting in arguments isn't personal, I think.

Re: Your 2nd post: I actually agreed with your reads. I'm not at a point where I can find interactions yet, so I wasn't like "oh wow he's bussing skirt" but it was more "hmmm this post is kinda scummy, but it's also objectively correct in a lot of ways".

Re: My scumreads: Yeah I was scumreading both of you, lol, just not as a team. Tbh you were more of a "I'm very concerned about this player and I want to put pressure to see what's going on with him".

I've gotten that.

I buy Bulba's explanation for his own overexplanation, and for not playing how I might expect. Vote stands on UCV.

EDIT HOLY FUCK GUYS STOP QUOTE WALLING

[Dunkerdoodles]

stop wallposting

[Mathdino]

I really don't like how insistent you are in communicating with player(s) not in this game. I get why you might do it as town...but it is plenty clear why someone might do it as scum. This is my 'this specific thing is pinging me' post to alert other players though. It's not really aimed at you (despite being addressed to you, because it sounds better grammatically that way), so please carry on.

Edit: Oh and then Skirt does the same thing lololol...I don't know if he's mimicking Math on purpose or...

Do you understand yet why I'm asking the specific questions I'm asking?

The mastina thing is something mostly irrelevant now. Bulba already claimed mastina gave input and I was soft-factchecking that. I honestly don't super care what mastina's reads are this game (no offence, mastina).

The Creature thing is a completely different thing. You asked me for follow-up on my questions, and I think this is the biggest read I have.

If you don't understand, I recommend showing your team the questions I'm asking and why I might be doing that. In case it wasn't clear: I think UCV is scum.

[Bulbazak]

@Math: I actually was curious with your focus on T-Bone being in a normal. Was there someplace you were actually going with that? I wanted to ask in my first post, but I decided to give T-Bone time to respond.
Also, how much meta research did you do? I ask, because while on one hand it seems like a lot, there's also some basic things I've noticed you missing.

@Smocaine: I'd really like you to explain your LLD vote.

To anyone on a wagon with Smocaine: Think really hard about that, because that's not someplace you want to be.

@CDB: Can you give me more about your Key scumread? I thought his entrance felt off, but with everything else that's happened in this thread, he still feels like a big pile of blah to me. I'm wondering if you saw something that I missed yet gut picked up on.

P-edit: I'm ready to choo-choo Skirt into oblivion now.
Math, if you are really interested in one on one time, I'll probably be more around tomorrow and Wednesday. You should have known by metaing me that d1 is normally where I'm at my worst, and I get better once I'm able to get my head in the game and get on top of things.
Mastina made a point that I'm not charasmatic enough sometimes, so I thought it might be something I should try working on this game. Most of her input came pre-game. For example, she did a mod-meta post on Smith, but I don't want to go into that, because that could tell the scum team what's likely or not likely to be in the game.

[Mathdino]

I wanted to get a potentially readable or alignment indicative response. It seemed really weird that I noticed in his team PT. His response was "well my teammates saddled me with this game, and I guess I could be lying, but whatever, and also I played scumgames in TM when I had to so".

1. I literally can't continue on this road in this thread because then I have to start speculating on what his teammates' alignments are and what they'd want to pick (hence behind-the-scenes work).
2. He's made it clear that despite his slight town preference in 2015, he's also very willing to play scum, so that nullifies that whole deal.
3. "My teammates didn't want this so I got it" is actually pretty fucking obvious looking at the distribution of his team. So I believe that.

Didn't see much point in follow-up when there was a bunch of other stuff to be talking about.

Re: meta: Only half an hour to an hour's worth, I think I said that. I looked through the TM2018 players' recent GTKASes, went through their TM2015 PTs (I compiled and read those before role PMs were sent out to see what works for communication), and otherwise just knew some things about various players. I'm back from like a 3 year hiatus. I only recognise some people (from before and from just recently) so there are a lot of gaps in my knowledge.

I'd really like to know what I'm missing actually.

[Bulbazak]

@Math: Surreptitous is the big one. I tried to make a shift in how I approached explaining or giving reads based on how frustrated I got with people not seeing what I was seeing early on.

And given that you read our PT from last TM, you probably have an idea with how I approached placements this year as well.

Okay, going to bed for reals now.

[T-Bone]

Math, my real final word tonight on the subject is this. I know why players who rely on meta do the questionable things they do. It just doesn't mean they get a pass if I feel the behavior is problematic from the in-game perspective.

[Mathdino]

Can I ask you (in good faith) why you feel it's problematic? This might be more for postgame but postgame is a long way away.

[mhsmith0]

We have reached 24 hours. You're all going to be here for a long
long
long
time

[Mathdino]

My teammates hardclaim

Haven't Kept Up With The Game

. Until now! (well they've read like a few pages but it's k)

Have some shit to discuss.

NSG thinks that Bins's entrance was weird, and the amount of agreement she has with my logic is indicative of attempted pocketing. I have no meta of Bins suggesting she usually opens like that as either alignment, so I need eyes on this.

KMD thinks that:
- Elena's initial question was weird, but is willing to give a pass (I don't see the problem with it)
- Keychain is locktown due to how she answered Elena somewhere
- The fact that Radja told me and skirt "Hey guys I totally could take scum!" is majorly townish.
- He's townleaning skirt.

@skirt:

KMD wants to know exactly why you gave me a townread as early as you did.
- He thinks LLD's scumstrat would be to drive a wedge between me and skirt by pocketing me and tunneling him due to intimidation of a possible townbloc.
- He thinks there's one scum in {skirt, LLD}. He had an issue with how both of them so strongly locktowned me and then started getting in tons of 1 on 1 conversations with me (basically trying to pocket me). He doesn't however think LLD would ever open like that against a scumbuddy skirt.

I'm actually inclined to agree with one scum in skirt/LLD.

The reason I'm not voting them is because
A. I want to push other possible avenues so the day doesn't stagnate into "my way or the high way"
B. Since I do think at least one of them is town for sure, the negative utility of lynching skirt-town and LLD-town is pretty high. It's a risk and people are in a lot of disagreement over the two of them.
C. If we have any investigatives, they can and likely will check one of the two. Done.

oh shit i just refreshed and he has more thoughts hang on