Mini 1993 - Earthbound Mafia: Giygas' Curse - GAME OVER

[Mathdino]

You do understand the difference between "scummy" and "actually likely to be scum", right?

Like if I went out here and was like "HELLO EVERYONE I AM MATHDINO AND I AM PLACING A RANDOM VOTE"

that's an objectively scummy thing to say, but it doesn't actually make me more likely to be scum.

Your play is scummy in the sense that it's likely to draw votes, but it's not actually more likely to be scum.

[Beefster]

Inferno390

: Well crap. I wasn't even paying attention to what account I was on. I deserve major mod reprimanding for that.

On a more positive note, how are Brafin and I playing scummily?

VOTE: InfernoBrafin
Semi-serious vote.

IB looks awfully self-conscious.

[TheGoldenParadox]

the worst is town, or at least not scum with InfBraf. Cheeky scumplay like that isn't his thing I think.

No read on the hydra, feels like they're playing in an intentionally scummy way, but whatever.

acryon is probtown until someone finds me evidence that they open scumgames like this.

VOTE: Paradox

Correct move is to always wagon this guy.

VOTE: Mathdino
I frickin' trusted you. I babysat you. But no, you decided to betray me and join the frickin' mafia. What a lowlife thing to do.

[Beefster]

Yeah. Mathdino's pinging me too. Let's see how this progresses.

[Inferno390]

Inferno390

: Well crap. I wasn't even paying attention to what account I was on. I deserve major mod reprimanding for that.

On a more positive note, how are Brafin and I playing scummily?

VOTE: InfernoBrafin
Semi-serious vote.

IB looks awfully self-conscious.

Inferno:

What's pinging you as self-conscious? That post in particular? Or just the way Brafin and I are interacting with each other in general?

You do understand the difference between "scummy" and "actually likely to be scum", right?

Like if I went out here and was like "HELLO EVERYONE I AM MATHDINO AND I AM PLACING A RANDOM VOTE"

that's an objectively scummy thing to say, but it doesn't actually make me more likely to be scum.

Your play is scummy in the sense that it's likely to draw votes, but it's not actually more likely to be scum.

Inferno:

This is backtracky. Who uses scummy in a sense that is not "playinging like scum?" If my play doesn't make me more liekly to be scum, it's called anti-town, not scummy.
This is either bad terminology, or a heavy shade. Stop shading the corn, MD.
VOTE: Mathdino

[Mathdino]

luckily there are 4 people in this game who can back me up on the fact that i use "scummy" to mean something entirely different from "more likely to be scum"

like i could get a cop guilty on a super townish player and that still wouldn't make them scummy

scummy is a matter of weird behaviours that people on MS tend to get pinged by

but see my real issue right now is you chose to wait until after paradox came in and RVS'd me to start a wagon on me

when you easily could've voted me the 3 other times you chose to tell me you're scumreading me

so why now and not before

[InfernoBrafin]

Inferno:

The actual...

I'm going to get modkilled for this before D1 is out.

[InfernoBrafin]

Inferno:

Because I wanted to wait and see how you tried to explain what you were saying. which had led me to believe that you're just shading us. Course Brafin gets a say in this too, so you'll have to see what he says before you have the whole story.

[Mathdino]

No read on the hydra, feels like they're playing in an intentionally scummy way, but whatever.

what about this post makes you think i'm shading you?

do you believe i'm shading your alignment, or your skill/quality as a player?

[InfernoBrafin]

Inferno:

Alignment. By saying that he way you find Brafin and I interacting to be scummy, you're shading how we're relaying information as coming from scum. You can't call a player's skill in of itself scummy; it's the posts that are scummy or not.

[Beefster]

Inferno390

: Well crap. I wasn't even paying attention to what account I was on. I deserve major mod reprimanding for that.

On a more positive note, how are Brafin and I playing scummily?

VOTE: InfernoBrafin
Semi-serious vote.

IB looks awfully self-conscious.

Inferno:

What's pinging you as self-conscious? That post in particular? Or just the way Brafin and I are interacting with each other in general?

Other posts pinged me too, but it was the fact that you were already asking others why they thought you were playing scummily... on page 2.

It's hard to say if that really means much this early on, but it's a start.

[Mathdino]

Edit: Always scummy, flashwagoning scummy players is great for (hilarious) reactions.

also note that i said this in reference to paradox's play

given that he's been mislynched in both games i've played with him, the idea that paradox is always scummy holds true

so do you also believe i'm shading paradox by saying this

Edit: cool
well i was shading your hydra's play quality
not your alignment
in fact, had you actually asked me if i was scumreading you about a page ago, i'd have called you gun-to-my-head town

also i literally didn't say that you and brafin interacting with each other was the scummy thing, don't know where that comes from

@Beefster: do you think anything of the fact that inferno literally just gave me reasons for why i thought they were scummy

[InfernoBrafin]

Inferno:

Where I get the shade fro is you acting like the way we are trying to be transparent with our reads is scum-like behavior, but then being flippant about it. It looks like you're calling us scum without actually committing to a read.

[Mathdino]

Inferno:

Where I get the shade fro is you acting like the way we are trying to be transparent with our reads is scum-like behavior, but then being flippant about it. It looks like you're calling us scum without actually committing to a read.

AH SEE AGAIN

i said absolutely nothing about you and brafin trying to be transparent with your reads

all i said was that you guys are naturally scummy in a hydra together

in fact, had i chosen to paragraphpost on that when i made 33, i would've said something like
I can sorta see where the scumreads on IB are coming from, but it seems like they're one of those hydra pairs that naturally acts scummy when together; thus far I haven't seen anything actually alignment indicative. It's also possible they're one of those players that intentionally acts scummy in early game, but whatever. Nullread on them.

do you have any thoughts on the fact that i clearly also used "scummy" in relation to paradox's play in 39

[InfernoBrafin]

Inferno:

Perhaps I assumed that's what we were getting scumread for. I just don't see what else we could be doing that could be at all considered scummy.

[Mathdino]

VOTE: InfernoBrafin

this has nothing to do with your generally scummy vibes FTR

opportunistic, could've easily voted me when i basically asked them to
instead chose to wait until after paradox voted me

then assuming reasons for other people scumreading them is an actual scumtell (i think? i haven't seen this behaviour often enough to confirm this but scum is generally more self-conscious)

[the worst]

Can +1 Math differentiates very effectively between scummy behaviour and likelihood to be scum.

Dude won my first town game here (we were both townies and survived) basically entirely because of townblocking his #1 'independent scumread' in LyLo, which PoE'd the scumteam for us.

Inferno/JB what level of experience do both of you have?

[InfernoBrafin]

Inferno:

Okay, but this leads me right back to the point of you won't explain what you find about our play that is scummy, leaving me to only guess about what you could possibly be calling out. Right now it just looks like you are using the fact that we're a hydra to call us scummy.

I think that you're throwing accusations at Paradox of scummy play really early, which is odd. I also think that a flash wagon this early can be interpreted as "hunting for PRs," which makes me trust you less. Not knowing your scum or town meta, I don't know what It means for you yet. But I will.

[InfernoBrafin]

Inferno:

Overall, James and I each have about 4-5 months of experience on the site. We've each only seen a little outside of the newbie queue though.

[InfernoBrafin]

VOTE: InfernoBrafin

this has nothing to do with your generally scummy vibes FTR

opportunistic, could've easily voted me when i basically asked them to
instead chose to wait until after paradox voted me

then assuming reasons for other people scumreading them is an actual scumtell (i think? i haven't seen this behaviour often enough to confirm this but scum is generally more self-conscious)

Inferno:

I'm assuming because you won't tell me. And opportunistic is a stretch.

[Mathdino]

Inferno:

Okay, but this leads me right back to the point of you won't explain what you find about our play that is scummy, leaving me to only guess about what you could possibly be calling out. Right now it just looks like you are using the fact that we're a hydra to call us scummy.

I think that you're throwing accusations at Paradox of scummy play really early, which is odd. I also think that a flash wagon this early can be interpreted as "hunting for PRs," which makes me trust you less. Not knowing your scum or town meta, I don't know what It means for you yet. But I will.

but again

it was of no benefit for me to start telling everyone exactly how you're scummy

because
1. I don't want people to start using my reasons as bad reasons to scumread you.
2. I don't want to give you a road map to getting a townread from me. I want you to play how you naturally play and we'll see what happens.

what you're not understanding is the fact that i wasn't paragraphposting about what made you scummy was actively an effort to not start riling people up about you

and yeah, paradox has been mislynched in 2 different games, once mislynched while i was hard-defending him the entire game
so i believe i have the right to call paradox scummy
it's like you're actively ignoring the idea that a player can be scummy in every game they're in
jaydragonking and momo are obvious examples

[the worst]

I love being scumread as any alignment

Inferno do you agree that some players have meta that makes them seem scummy regardless of alignment?

[InfernoBrafin]

Inferno:

A) It's no benefit to you, but it is benefit to town. Town needs to explain reads so that they can better sort and find scum, even if the read is poor. The fact that you're going to withhold information so as "not to get a mislynch" on someone you find is playing scummy seems incredibly off.

We're not going to change our play to look townie. That's scummy behavior in of itself. What I can do if you explain your read is have a conversation about it and gather information from that read to form my own reads.

And you're telling me that if Paradox had a very towny town game, you'd call it scummy anyways becasue he's a scummy player? Because that's what it seems ike you're saying.

[InfernoBrafin]

I love being scumread as any alignment

Inferno do you agree that some players have meta that makes them seem scummy regardless of alignment?

Inferno:

No. Scummy is a term used to define a post. It cannot be used to define an overall playstyle. People make townie posts as well as scummy posts. The only way you cold convinve me of a scummy player is to find one where every single thing that player posted could fall under the category scummy.

[the worst]

If a player made like 75% scummy sounding posts and 25% Townie sounding posts how would you define them?