Open 710: MKUltra - Foreign Spies Win!


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Post Post #475 (ISO) » Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:43 pm

Post by GuyInFreezer »

In post 473, Sky_Paladin wrote:My only concern is that she was part of the back and forth with Tatl and Tael that resulted in them putting doc in every post which proooooobably gave away that they were the doc.
You have no idea
how much I tried to fix this
by softing doc myself
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Post Post #476 (ISO) » Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:55 pm

Post by Beefster »

In post 472, GuyInFreezer wrote:
In post 471, Beefster wrote:I should not have gone along with you.
Oh?

I'm preeeeetty sure I let you decide if you wanted to join the wagon or not.
In post 393, GuyInFreezer wrote:That would be fantastic.

You can always ISO RF to convince yourself if that's the way you prefer.
In post 394, Beefster wrote:Maybe I'll hammer after RF claims.

I need to evaluate this for myself.
In post 397, Beefster wrote:Yup. Hammer after claim. Unless RF says something that somehow redeems him.
I get what you're pointing out here, but you
were
a key player in driving yesterday's mislynch.
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Post Post #477 (ISO) » Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:57 pm

Post by GuyInFreezer »

And how does that make me scum?
Would I be scum if RF flipped scum?
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Post Post #478 (ISO) » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:21 pm

Post by Beefster »

You were, rather confidently, pressuring my vote one way or the other. I was put off by it at the time even though I sort of kinda saw scum in RF (at first). You primed my thought processes for a scum read.

I think a better question for the second would be "
Could
you be scum if RF flipped scum?" and the answer would be yes. But would a red RF flip make you scum? Not really. It would have gotten me off your back for a little while. Since this is multiball and it wouldn't have to be a bus, it doesn't really prove anything.
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Post Post #479 (ISO) » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:28 pm

Post by Beefster »

In post 475, GuyInFreezer wrote:
In post 473, Sky_Paladin wrote:My only concern is that she was part of the back and forth with Tatl and Tael that resulted in them putting doc in every post which proooooobably gave away that they were the doc.
You have no idea
how much I tried to fix this
by softing doc myself
2 things:

1. I call bullshit on this. I just read through your ISO and I see no softclaiming doc.
2. Softing doc has solid scum motivation. You can use it either to get votes off you or to white knight, as in this situation.

I also saw a few posts in your ISO that really ping me. Case incoming.
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Post Post #480 (ISO) » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:29 pm

Post by GuyInFreezer »

In post 479, Beefster wrote:I just read through your ISO and I see no softclaiming doc.
In post 404, GuyInFreezer wrote:
In post 402, Tatl and Tael wrote:VOTE: redflavour

Doc is on me
-Tael
Wtf no doc on me
You're not getting killed
In post 442, GuyInFreezer wrote:
In post 429, Tatl and Tael wrote:But I'm making it as clear as possible where my reads stand
Thoughts on Hawk/Sesq/skitter pls

In case you're somehow really nightkilled.
In post 444, GuyInFreezer wrote:Dunno if that will appease the doc to be on you.
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The true enlightenment was realizing that they are the same thing."
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"who the fuck fakeclaims Tracker like that
WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
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Post Post #481 (ISO) » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:31 pm

Post by GuyInFreezer »

In post 479, Beefster wrote:You can use it either to get votes off you
Did you feel the urge to get your vote off me when I replied that to
Sky
?
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The true enlightenment was realizing that they are the same thing."
~fferyllt

"who the fuck fakeclaims Tracker like that
WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
~Alisae
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Post Post #482 (ISO) » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:32 pm

Post by GuyInFreezer »

I'm also gonna wait a bit until more people talk, because I do have some fun thing to cook up.
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The true enlightenment was realizing that they are the same thing."
~fferyllt

"who the fuck fakeclaims Tracker like that
WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
~Alisae
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Post Post #483 (ISO) » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:47 pm

Post by Beefster »

My case against GIF:


In general, his tone comes off as trying too hard to be friendly/joking. He didn't contribute much of anything meaningful until the RF wagon (first round).

His RF tunnel strikes me as odd. was the first he ever mentioned RF in any meaningful capacity and he never provided a single justification for the wagon other than that post.

GIF does quite a bit of white knighting against PLs in , , and

in particular reeks of IIOA.

and are garbage.

He
really
likes pointing out that this is a multiball game. It seems as if every third post from him makes some reference to that.

I also noticed a softclaimed doc in and just now, so I retract my bullshit call. I still stand by my scum motivation point though.

Jokes about townflip on

is suspicious.
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Post Post #484 (ISO) » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:49 pm

Post by Beefster »

FTR, I noticed the doc softclaims independently.
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Post Post #485 (ISO) » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:53 pm

Post by GuyInFreezer »

In post 483, Beefster wrote:GIF does quite a bit of white knighting against PLs in 267, 273, and 378
Do you even know what white knighting is?
In post 483, Beefster wrote:273 in particular reeks of IIOA.
Do you even know what IIOA is?
In post 483, Beefster wrote:He really likes pointing out that this is a multiball game. It seems as if every third post from him makes some reference to that.
And?
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The true enlightenment was realizing that they are the same thing."
~fferyllt

"who the fuck fakeclaims Tracker like that
WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
~Alisae
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Post Post #486 (ISO) » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:54 pm

Post by GuyInFreezer »

Oh also
In post 483, Beefster wrote:In general, his tone comes off as trying too hard to be friendly/joking.
I'm pretty sure I was anything but friendly this game.
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"I used to think you had this elegant-trolly, minimalist playstyle. Then I realized the playstyle is ~Lazy~
The true enlightenment was realizing that they are the same thing."
~fferyllt

"who the fuck fakeclaims Tracker like that
WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
~Alisae
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Post Post #487 (ISO) » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:59 pm

Post by Beefster »

In post 485, GuyInFreezer wrote:
In post 483, Beefster wrote:GIF does quite a bit of white knighting against PLs in 267, 273, and 378
Do you even know what white knighting is?
In post 483, Beefster wrote:273 in particular reeks of IIOA.
Do you even know what IIOA is?
In post 483, Beefster wrote:He really likes pointing out that this is a multiball game. It seems as if every third post from him makes some reference to that.
And?
Meh. Wrong terminology.

It's easy to stand up to policy lynches and it's an easy way to earn towncred.

Focusing on stats in the context that you brought them up doesn't look all that great.

Last time I was in a multiball as scum, I called attention to the fact that it was multiball and therefore scum would scumhunt. It, among other factors was my demise.
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Post Post #488 (ISO) » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:00 pm

Post by Beefster »

In post 486, GuyInFreezer wrote:Oh also
In post 483, Beefster wrote:In general, his tone comes off as trying too hard to be friendly/joking.
I'm pretty sure I was anything but friendly this game.
Because you're always serious.
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Post Post #489 (ISO) » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:02 pm

Post by Viomi »

In post 458, skitter30 wrote:@mod: Has mumble been replaced? Also
Yes, Mumble has been replaced by springlullaby

Flavor will be clear on kills once updated, I'm operating from my phone currently and should have access to my machine tonight
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Post Post #490 (ISO) » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:04 pm

Post by GuyInFreezer »

In post 487, Beefster wrote:It's easy to stand up to policy lynches and it's an easy way to earn towncred.

Focusing on stats in the context that you brought them up doesn't look all that great.
You do realize that I had to step up because the policy lynch was actually happening, right?
You even agreed with me sarcastically.
In post 487, Beefster wrote:Last time I was in a multiball as scum, I called attention to the fact that it was multiball and therefore scum would scumhunt. It, among other factors was my demise.
Apparently you don't see the difference of what you did as scum apparently and what I did so let me clarify it for you.
What you did, was stating an obvious theory that everyone with a half of brain knew about, in attempt to earn towncred.
What I did, was stopping the anti-town thing from happening because some of the people had no clue what the hell they were doing.
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The true enlightenment was realizing that they are the same thing."
~fferyllt

"who the fuck fakeclaims Tracker like that
WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
~Alisae
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Post Post #491 (ISO) » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:07 pm

Post by GuyInFreezer »

In post 488, Beefster wrote:Because you're always serious.
Always.
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The true enlightenment was realizing that they are the same thing."
~fferyllt

"who the fuck fakeclaims Tracker like that
WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
~Alisae
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Post Post #492 (ISO) » Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:45 pm

Post by Sesq »

In post 459, skitter30 wrote:
In post 439, Sky_Paladin wrote:Gif, while we're in twilight, thoughts on Kop?

As an aside I have been too busy to really focus on this game; I'm probably going to drop out if I can't commit properly by the next phase.
I think this is a pretty weird post. Like you pop in during twilight to ask GIF about Kop (ie as opposed to talking about something topical like Red wagon or the rc/mikan/gif thing).

Like why is this directed at GIF in particular? Why were you specifically asking about Kop at that juncture?
also "next phase" instead of "next day" is an interesting word choice

also later calls this day "phase"

make what you will

he's town
In post 473, Sky_Paladin wrote:Other thoughts:
I enjoy Mikan's entrance to the game, it's fairly active and her opinion is clear. It's miles-away more towny than TD IMO. My only concern is that she was part of the back and forth with Tatl and Tael that resulted in them putting doc in every post which proooooobably gave away that they were the doc. I'm town-sorting this slot for now.

Actually that's the whole player base so I'll just do a full reads list.

Town
GiF - for towning it up late day 1 even if it was for a mislynch
Mikan - as above

To Sort
Hawk/Skitter

Scum
Icon/Beefster

Some of Icon's posts that ping me -

152 - posts complaining about hydra's. Contrast with my own post 137 -
"if you're playing a hydra I expect you to bring the best and worst of both players, and you don't get to blame your other head for not being town enough."
With
"Make up your mind, and then say what you want. It doesn't help town to hear 2 colliding opinions coming from 1 slot."

Bolded for emphasis. This doesn't seem like a towny-thing to say. Two different opinions is exactly what I'd expect - and hope for - from a hydra. The more unique thoughts out there, the better off town is.

179 is a bit weird. Icon has gone a good chunk of the game at this point asking for a lynch on NM solely because NM claimed scum (...which is fair) and earlier criticises Kop for not voting NM (158), and made it clear in 155 that their vote on NM was
I'm voting him because he claimed mafia, and has made no attempt at, well, anything.


This post asking for Beefster to explain their vote on Not Mafia therefore surprised me, because Icon is aware that by that point the only real reasons to vote NM were because of inactivity and claiming scum. What else could Beefster add? It seemed opportunistic. Icon later switches to Beefster which I concede does look natural.

Later when the game is stalled, Icon questions Tatl and Tael for their NM vote 242. They also poke Skitter for the same thing a little later.

Late day 1 Icon posts some thoughts on Hawk/Beefster, and finally settles on Beefster. This looks natural and I wouldn't call it except...it's multiball, and scum can legitimately scum-hunt the other team.

@Icon

I guess I'm questioning your progression of reads here, Icon. It looks like you wanted NM dead and then once you switched away, anybody else voting for NM got your question mark, and you didn't really mention them late day 1.

What is your current opinion on Hawk/NM?
hydras are not necessarily good for town, "more opinions" is kind of hard when most hydras are so fucking bad at distinguishing eachother, and most people are so fucking bad at distinguishing them, it looks like a contracted fuckpile of uncertainty. scum can use this for subversion and trickery

bad point

the rest of your case is just shitty buzzwords

i am aware i'm focusing a whole lot on you for some reason. i don't know why. just how it is

beefster is also in the category of "town but useless besides the vote"

undying admiration for gif. best player thus far
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Post Post #493 (ISO) » Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:47 pm

Post by Sesq »

its seriously as if beef has not thought for a damn second before fabricating any aspect of this "case". its embarassing

not scummy. just bad
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Post Post #494 (ISO) » Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:58 pm

Post by GuyInFreezer »

I don't really think beef is scum either, which is kinda frustrating because all I can do is snap back at him for that piece of work.
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The true enlightenment was realizing that they are the same thing."
~fferyllt

"who the fuck fakeclaims Tracker like that
WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
~Alisae
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Post Post #495 (ISO) » Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:02 pm

Post by GuyInFreezer »

Oh also
In post 478, Beefster wrote:You were, rather confidently, pressuring my vote one way or the other. I was put off by it at the time even though I sort of kinda saw scum in RF (at first). You primed my thought processes for a scum read.
You call it pressuring.
I call it convincing.
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"I used to think you had this elegant-trolly, minimalist playstyle. Then I realized the playstyle is ~Lazy~
The true enlightenment was realizing that they are the same thing."
~fferyllt

"who the fuck fakeclaims Tracker like that
WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
~Alisae
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Post Post #496 (ISO) » Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:21 pm

Post by Beefster »

In post 495, GuyInFreezer wrote:Oh also
In post 478, Beefster wrote:You were, rather confidently, pressuring my vote one way or the other. I was put off by it at the time even though I sort of kinda saw scum in RF (at first). You primed my thought processes for a scum read.
You call it pressuring.
I call it convincing.
Terminology. Lawyering. Technicalities.
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Post Post #497 (ISO) » Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:59 am

Post by Iconeum »

Busy for the weekend expect mofe from me on monday
Rawr!
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Post Post #498 (ISO) » Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:11 am

Post by Hawk »

Ack sorry I forgot about this game. Just received the day start email. I'll post more later tonight or tomorrow. Doing family stuff this weekend.
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Post Post #499 (ISO) » Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:35 am

Post by Sesq »

In post 496, Beefster wrote:
In post 495, GuyInFreezer wrote:Oh also
In post 478, Beefster wrote:You were, rather confidently, pressuring my vote one way or the other. I was put off by it at the time even though I sort of kinda saw scum in RF (at first). You primed my thought processes for a scum read.
You call it pressuring.
I call it convincing.
Terminology. Lawyering. Technicalities.
"calling things out but not actually explaining why they are bad" meme.

it is important because it makes your case potentially look worse than it is
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