Mini 1329: Create-Your-Own-Role Mafia: Game Over
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- AurorusVox
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- Elmo TeH AzN
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Elmo TeH AzN
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- Maruchan
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Maruchan she/her
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What do you think is likely to happen? We weren't playing the "What do you think is likely to happen" game with the role, we were playing the "what usefulness does it have"
I was proving it was useful, not what was likely, but so far you haven't told me what YOU think is likely either
What BAD SCENARIO is so LIKELY with this role that it has you scared shittless with your tail between your legs?
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- Maruchan
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Maruchan she/her
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VOTE: Moneybags
Nice catch I didn't see that
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- Maruchan
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Maruchan she/her
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↑ AurorusVox wrote:These arguments fail to convince me that it is more useful to town than to scum.
Who ever said thats what I was arguing? I was arguign that there ARE TOWN SCENARIOS with it, when yo uguys seem to think the role is 100% scum-help only.
You're changing your platform because i destroyed your original one. Quit trying to make a mountain out of a molehill, lets establish the fact you dislike the role, and play the damn game without using shitty OH BUT SO AND SO MADE SO AND SO ROLE SO HE MUST BE SCUM accusations.
Mod, I seriously request re-distributing alignments, as this has gone on too far.
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- Maruchan
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Maruchan she/her
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↑ AurorusVox wrote:AND WHAT A SHAME THAT WE COULDN'T HAVE HAD THIS DISCUSSION BEFORE THE ROLE WAS SUBMITTED
This part is also unforgivable.
You don't think the mod would have been p'oed and yelled at us for discussing that, since discussing that was not a part of the original plan?
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- Maruchan
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Maruchan she/her
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UNVOTE: moneybags
I went back and read both the comments and you are right. Auroros is trying too hard, first with this thing on elmo, (which, by the way, nobody cared 2 shits about until he brought it up), and second with that cleverly leaving half your post out in your links, as well as what was said in the posts you were agreeing to.
1st scum found?
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- Maruchan
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Maruchan she/her
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PS: I am surprised nobody has mentioned the blatant
MARUCHAN HAS CLAIMED HIS ROLE WHAT THE FUCK?!?!?
and are just focusing on Elmo's rolechoice?Show
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- PranaDevil
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Erm... we know he "knew he was town"... unless you're scum, you don't know who the hell is town or who is scum at this stage. So how do "we know he is town"?
No.
No.
No.
Just no, seriously... you want to work out role rotation THIS early on?! Tha benefits scum hugely now. Scum can cleverly play off things by knowing what goes where, the redirector in the hands of scum becomes extremely nasty, as do things like Pikachu, and about half the roles in general as it is... give the scum knowledge of what goes where, and not only can they pick players off, but they can do so with knowledge of which role they're removing as well.
Incidentally, I want nobody to be avoiding a lynch based on a role claim at any stage. Losing a role is never going to be as bad as leaving a possible scum alive with the chance to USE a powerful role.
This will never happen. Nothing in this game suggests "no-reveal", which means scum will not bring back a dead partner, because it will already be known that they are scum, they'll just get lynched the following day too. Instead, town get revived, and are known town, this is hugely beneficial to us, but has little use to scum beyond forcing town to waste a day while we re-lynch a scum. Sure, scum will use it given a chance, but it's more likely town will use it before scum will purely by logical reasoning. Unless scum landed the role today and we lynch a scum today, then tonight it will be town being revived (Or nobody if we lynch scum).
Based on the "make X target X" thing you're talking bollocks about, AV has already said plenty on the subject, but let's give my take on it too:
We wont know who has what, so re-directing a player onto themselves will not benefit anyone unless we 100% know what the role is that we're re-directing.
Re-directing a reviver onto themselves will (I'm guessing) waste a use of it, at best it means we lose a shot at reviving town.
You've given no beneficial stuff for town, just "if X and Y meet this criteria, then we can use this as beneficial to town", by that point the role has been used a few times and created one hell of a disturbance amongst town roles (unless we get bloody lucky and redirect onto scum).
Also... scum kill stuff, how do we know it affects the kill? We know scum will have additional powers to their kill (whether they have to choose to use the kill or a role we don't know, so let's assume they can do both for the sake of being careful), so what if it only re-directs the power? Even if it doesn't, we need to not just guess who is scum, but which is submitting the kill, otherwise we could just be telling a scum to hide behind themselves... this benefits nobody, again.
So... pro-town useage of role is... non-existant that I can see outside of us all mass revealing our roles (which is stupid) and then seeing who gets what tomorrow (even dumber, as then scum also can either kill someone to get a powerful role to land with them the next night, or play WIFOM to make us believe a guy getting a powerful role the following night is scum).
But it does all seem a bit of a mess right now. My main suspects are easily Elmo for that god-awful role submission and Moneybags (from earlier stuff rather than what AV "caught"), and vijay, for the earlier "I know this based on my role" stuff.
Maru I believe is likely town because he's getting stuck into the debate and not hiding from it, similar with AV, but they're taking opposing sides and it's going to distract us from hunting elsewhere. For now can I suggest we return to the Elmo-role debate later today/tomorrow, and for now look at things outside of it like vijay and Moneybags, rather than continuing round in circles. As I believe we have a town vs town debate going on with scum hiding in the wings ready to pounce once things get properly dicey with votes being heavily launched.
- Maruchan
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↑ PranaDevil wrote:Just no, seriously... you want to work out role rotation THIS early on?! Tha benefits scum hugely now. Scum can cleverly play off things by knowing what goes where, the redirector in the hands of scum becomes extremely nasty, as do things like Pikachu, and about half the roles in general as it is... give the scum knowledge of what goes where, and not only can they pick players off, but they can do so with knowledge of which role they're removing as well.
Incidentally, I want nobody to be avoiding a lynch based on a role claim at any stage. Losing a role is never going to be as bad as leaving a possible scum alive with the chance to USE a powerful role.
yo useem to e pro at mis-reading things.
I said ONCE WE WORK IT OUT, as in LATER IN THE GAME, as in NOT RIGHT NOW
also "we know he knew he was town"
"We know that elmo knew that elmo was town" as in WE KNOW HE GOT HIS ALIGNMENT PM BEFORE HE MADE THE ROLE BECAUSE HE TOLD US.
god
readthegameplz
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↑ Elmo TeH AzN wrote:
2nd question Yes
1st question:
Say X kills Y
Redirector: selects X to redirect to X
X is scum.
??? = Profit
so you KNOW who scums arew and you KNOW who's gonna make the kill. riiight.
Aurous post has said this very well.
@Money's 101: what?? the opposite; it was very easy to conclude that.
@102: ?????...AtE? or just stupid?
@103: usefullness=what CAN happen ans IS LIKELY to happen. e.g.: cop investigates scum before getting killed.
I'll look at 104 in a sec, on the phone.
@106: I'll give 90% of the cases pro-scum.
have not read 111,112 yet.
In post 836, Lucky2u said:
Rule # 5h05: players should not attempt to use or manipulate the mod for any purpose.
about maru claiming - it doesn't matter much right now. it's kinda like Maru protectin gself from a nightkill, cuz no scumteam would kill this role.
@111: he said he was town earlier, go read. in case you don't get it, that is 'assuming he is town, then...bla bla bla'.
Maru, haven't you been the one who asked for replacement when you knew the roles and rotation? so why all of a sudden the change? nice catch from parana.
well you explained it in 112. but 111 has very good points otherwise. I also support the point there where he concluded you were town maru.
@111: he said he was town earlier, go read. in case you don't get it, that is 'assuming he is town, then...bla bla bla'.
Maru, haven't you been the one who asked for replacement when you knew the roles and rotation? so why all of a sudden the change? nice catch from parana.
well you explained it in 112. but 111 has very good points otherwise. I also support the point there where he concluded you were town maru.
In post 836, Lucky2u said:
Rule # 5h05: players should not attempt to use or manipulate the mod for any purpose.
- AurorusVox
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AurorusVox
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Your post came immediately after this post in which Maru disagrees with my position. Saying "I agree with Maru" without specifying - are you surprised if don't read your mind?
Also if you FoS me why not vote me? Scum.
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↑ Maruchan wrote:↑ AurorusVox wrote:These arguments fail to convince me that it is more useful to town than to scum.
Who ever said thats what I was arguing? I was arguign that there ARE TOWN SCENARIOS with it, when yo uguys seem to think the role is 100% scum-help only.
Again, this post from you suggests that you see those reasons as being why redirector is "one of the best" (since, y'know, you quoted me ASKING why it's one of the best).
Now if you think Elmo received a town PM, you should apparently think he meant "one of the best [for town]," i.e. one of the best roles that would prove MORE USEFUL TO TOWN than to scum.
Also this is bullshit. If he's picked a role that's more useful to scum, why does it matter that there are SOME USES for town? Surely the most important thing is WHO does it help the most. Who do you think it helps the most?
---
↑ Maruchan wrote:
UNVOTE: moneybags
I went back and read both the comments and you are right. Auroros is trying too hard, first with this thing on elmo, (which, by the way, nobody cared 2 shits about until he brought it up), and second with that cleverly leaving half your post out in your links, as well as what was said in the posts you were agreeing to.
1st scum found?
So where's your vote?
Besides I've disproved Moneybags' crackpot theory.
And how does the rest of the post actually change what it looks like he's agreeing with?
JEEZ THIS GAME IS SO OVER
Elmo, Moneybags, Maruchan.
Scumteam found.
Deploy lynches.
Cruise to victory.
THE LEMON LIVES! - Cabd
- Maruchan
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↑ PranaDevil wrote:they'll just get lynched the following day too.
unless there are 3 players left, scum gets the choose dead guy to imitate or bring back dead guy role, and brings back his partner, causing 4 people 2 scum, gamewin
or if there are 5+players left, it makes is take an extra day, which gives scum an extra kill
If the scum have the role to bring back the dead, they will revive their partner for these reasons:
1. its a 2-use role, it takes one use away from the town.
2. It could cause scumwin
3. It gives them an extra day/night phase that they wouldn't otherwise have.
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- PranaDevil
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↑ Maruchan wrote:↑ PranaDevil wrote:Just no, seriously... you want to work out role rotation THIS early on?! Tha benefits scum hugely now. Scum can cleverly play off things by knowing what goes where, the redirector in the hands of scum becomes extremely nasty, as do things like Pikachu, and about half the roles in general as it is... give the scum knowledge of what goes where, and not only can they pick players off, but they can do so with knowledge of which role they're removing as well.
Incidentally, I want nobody to be avoiding a lynch based on a role claim at any stage. Losing a role is never going to be as bad as leaving a possible scum alive with the chance to USE a powerful role.
yo useem to e pro at mis-reading things.
I said ONCE WE WORK IT OUT, as in LATER IN THE GAME, as in NOT RIGHT NOW
So... once we work it out, when scum could have had a couple of uses with it, when by that point we shouldn't be relying on roles over scum-hunting anyway... hmmm...
We know "he knew his alignment", yes...
But how do we know he "knew he was town"? Do you "know" Elmo is town? Do you? Or are you, perhaps, like any town player (as I said I suspect you are, thought... the way you're playing this I am beginning to become more suspect with it) with the view of "we don't sodding well know"?
If you aren't sure... how come you are defending someone else who says "we know he knew he was town"? How do "we" know that? We don't, the ONLY people who know whether Elmo is town or not are Elmo, and (if he's not with them already) the scum team... so, erm... want to pay attention there or are we going to continue with that bug up your ass claiming others aren't paying attention, when it's actually you?
↑ Maruchan wrote:↑ PranaDevil wrote:they'll just get lynched the following day too.
unless there are 3 players left, scum gets the choose dead guy to imitate or bring back dead guy role, and brings back his partner, causing 4 people 2 scum, gamewin
or if there are 5+players left, it makes is take an extra day, which gives scum an extra kill
If the scum have the role to bring back the dead, they will revive their partner for these reasons:
1. its a 2-use role, it takes one use away from the town.
2. It could cause scumwin
3. It gives them an extra day/night phase that they wouldn't otherwise have.
And as for this... that's one bastard of a long shot isn't it? Is it not more likely that that situation will never even arise as the necromancer role will have been used well before then? The very second it lands on a town role when we have town dead, is the same second that town are brought back. Any deviation from that means whoever had it prior is scum. Easy. So... why are we even assuming the role will still have uses left once we hit end-game?
Mafia will be able to do that only if they have been killed AT NIGHT. it's a night protection, not a day. most likely scum will die via lynch right? so what's the point?
Maru is not scum; but Elmo, I am sure is.
ninja'd by one post. sec.
Maru is not scum; but Elmo, I am sure is.
ninja'd by one post. sec.
In post 836, Lucky2u said:
Rule # 5h05: players should not attempt to use or manipulate the mod for any purpose.
PranaDevil wrote:[quote="In post 112
But how do we know he "knew he was town"? Do you "know" Elmo is town? Do you? Or are you, perhaps, like any town player (as I said I suspect you are, thought... the way you're playing this I am beginning to become more suspect with it) with the view of "we don't sodding well know"?
If you aren't sure... how come you are defending someone else who says "we know he knew he was town"? How do "we" know that? We don't, the ONLY people who know whether Elmo is town or not are Elmo, and (if he's not with them already) the scum team... so, erm... want to pay attention there or are we going to continue with that bug up your ass claiming others aren't paying attention, when it's actually you?
will you drop that? that whole post is about the ASSUMPTION he is town. if he is town, then he knows he is town, and THEN etc etc.
In post 836, Lucky2u said:
Rule # 5h05: players should not attempt to use or manipulate the mod for any purpose.
- Maruchan
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↑ shos wrote:Maru, haven't you been the one who asked for replacement when you knew the roles and rotation? so why all of a sudden the change? nice catch from parana.
well you explained it in 112. but 111 has very good points otherwise. I also support the point there where he concluded you were town maru.
1. I HATE HATE HATE your use of post#s as reference, as nobody pays attention to post numbers. from now on PLEASE quote.
2. Don't I what? when do I ask for replacement when I know roles and rotations?
2. We don't yet know roles and rotations.....
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- Maruchan
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↑ AurorusVox wrote:JEEZ THIS GAME IS SO OVER
Elmo, Moneybags, Maruchan.
Scumteam found.
Deploy lynches.
Cruise to victory.
VOTE: Maruchan
This vote will go away if/when alignments are re-distributed.
Until then, I'm down for proving to Auroros he isn't as smart as he looks.
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YOu need to go re read the roles bro.
Nowhere does it say this.
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- Guy_Named_Riggs
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I noticed, but haven't had a chance to post before it was covered anyway. It is apparent that you claiming your role isn't as important as discussing Elmo's role choice.
Onto Elmo's Role Chloice anyway...
Can we just stop about it? We need to wait for what the mod has had to say about this. Once the mod has stated whether or not the alignments were sent out before Elmo sent in the role, we can see if we need to discuss this further. If Elmo's Role was sent after, Elmo may be scum (Though I am confused on exactly why he's scum since the role is only a redirector (town can have redirector roles too so it could go either way)). If Elmo sent the role in before he recieved his alignment, Elmo could still be scum so it's pointless to really continue this conversation either way
What do you think BB?