421 Smalltown 2: Scrubs Mafia! Game Over!


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Post Post #100 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:22 am

Post by Glork »

DragonsofSummer wrote:Why am I on your short list?
I don't like you.
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Post Post #101 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:28 am

Post by Glork »

Actually... hmm.

I'm going to shut up and let some other people talk for a bit. I need to hear more from everybody before I decide who needs to die.
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Post Post #102 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:58 am

Post by Zindaras »

Thesp wrote:I'm torn 50/50 as to whether or not this post is an indicator of scumminess or of townieness. I think it has both, and that bothers me. :?
I tried to give an analysis of PBuG's decision unrelated to my own opinion regarding him. If you see faults in my analysis, I would certainly appreciate it if you could point them out to me.

Glork, I'd like you to analyze Stoofer.
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Post Post #103 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:35 am

Post by Mr Stoofer »

OK, I've re-read yesterday's lynch.

I was looking for two things in particular:
  1. People who were non-committal about VitaminR at the beginning of his bandwagon;
  2. People who jumped on VitaminR right at the end.
I think if I were scum I would want to see how the bandwagon developed, bearing in mind that it began so early (I certainly wouldn't have defended VitaminR). Then once it got going so strongly, I would have wanted to be on it before it ended. [I'm sure ballsier players than me might not have voted at all, and then used WIFOM.]

Anyway, with that in mind, three people struck me on my read-through:
  • Patrick
    : he seemed to do the minimum necessary to associate himself with the bandwagon without doing anything to push it along. I would have seriously thought about voting for him today, expect for one little thing...

  • Maz Medias
    : His one post of yesterday is striking for its lack of content. I can't think of any justification for him not commenting on the VitaminR wagon.

  • PBuG
    : He made a "role-playing" comment about VitaminR that I think meant he supported the lynch (but without reasons and it wasn't very strong) and then he came in at the end to hammer VitaminR without giving reasons. Also a striking lack of content day 1.
I've also had a look at the PBuG "bandwagon" (on which I have given my opinion). Although I disagree* with Glork (post 81) and Zindaras (post 82) I see where they are coming from. On the other hand, Thesp (post 83) and Maz Medias (post 90, already commented on) strike me as opportunistic and scummy.

I'd also like DragonsofSummer to post some more content - e.g. his views on PBuG and the surrounding debate.



*I disagree that PBuG's play is particularly suspicious (for him). I agree it would have been better if he had taken Fritzler's ability. And Zindaras' post 95 is a very good point.
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Post Post #104 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:37 am

Post by Mr Stoofer »

Oops, I missed the most important thing.

Because I found his behaviour in relation to both VitaminR and PBuG suspicious, I'm going to
vote: Maz Medias
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Post Post #105 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:41 am

Post by Mr Stoofer »

One more thing. I doubt very much if the scum would have targeted Patrick -- why would they bother? More likely he got killed protecting someone else. I've looked at Patrick's posts to see any clue as to who he might have protected -- that person would be confirmed innocent -- but I can't find anything. Maybe someone else can?
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Post Post #106 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:25 am

Post by Maz Medias »

I still like how Zindie is town even though he said the EXACT SAME THING that everyone called me out on. You're killing me.
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Post Post #107 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:30 am

Post by Mr Stoofer »

There's a world of difference between the following (which focuses on the
quality
of PBuG's play, and not his scumminess):
Zindaras wrote:If PBuG's scum, it means we're in LyLo.

I agree with Glork that it is quite unsettling. I definitely want PBuG to elaborate on his choice.
compared to your post (which says you want to lynch PBuG even though you want more rationale):
Maz Medias wrote:He's probably a good lynch, but I want to hear more rationale.
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Post Post #108 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:06 am

Post by Glork »

Stoof, you left somebody off of your list.
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Post Post #109 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:10 am

Post by Mr Stoofer »

What list? Who?
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Post Post #110 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:13 am

Post by Glork »

Mr Stoofer wrote:I think if I were scum I would want to see how the bandwagon developed, bearing in mind that it began so early (I certainly wouldn't have defended VitaminR). Then once it got going so strongly, I would have wanted to be on it before it ended. [I'm sure ballsier players than me might not have voted at all, and then used WIFOM.]

Anyway, with that in mind, three people struck me on my read-through:
  • Patrick
    : he seemed to do the minimum necessary to associate himself with the bandwagon without doing anything to push it along. I would have seriously thought about voting for him today, expect for one little thing...

  • Maz Medias
    : His one post of yesterday is striking for its lack of content. I can't think of any justification for him not commenting on the VitaminR wagon.

  • PBuG
    : He made a "role-playing" comment about VitaminR that I think meant he supported the lynch (but without reasons and it wasn't very strong) and then he came in at the end to hammer VitaminR without giving reasons. Also a striking lack of content day 1.
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Post Post #111 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:17 am

Post by Mr Stoofer »

A few people (I think Zindaras was one, IIRC) commented early on VitaminR, saying that they thought he was a good lynch, but would hold off voting to allow more discussion. I think such an attitude was fair enough so I didn't include such people. Is that what you mean?
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Post Post #112 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:19 am

Post by Glork »

No. That's not what I meant.

Go look at your suggested criteria again, and look again for somebody who fits them quite well.
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Post Post #113 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:20 am

Post by Mr Stoofer »

~sigh~

You're not the boss of me. But OK, I'll re-do the exercise.
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Post Post #114 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:41 am

Post by Zindaras »

Glork, don't ignore 102.
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Post Post #115 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:48 am

Post by Mr Stoofer »

OK Glork, I've re-read again, and it's obvious you mean Thesp. I probably didn't include him first time round because I thought his first post was "anti-VitaminR" -- and therefore he did not satisfy criterion (a). Perhaps I was being too soft on him. Thesp was also discussing nightchoices although he didn't give this as a reason not to vote VitaminR (unlike others). You are probably right that he should go on the list. He is also on my "PBuG list".



:idea: I've just had a thought. VitaminR vigging night 1, and then denying it, was a fairly stupid thing to do. If that's what happened (and all the evidence is that it did), then that suggests that his scumbuddies are fairly inexperienced/unsophisticated -- e.g. I would be surprised if Glork had been party to such a plan.
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Post Post #116 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:24 am

Post by Glork »

Zindaras wrote:Glork, don't ignore 102.
I wasn't ignoring it. I asked Stoof those questions for a reason.


Stoofer and I seem to be on the exact same wavelength. My list coming into today was Thesp, Maz, DoS, and PBuG... and now Stoof has named Maz/PBuG (and eventually Thesp) for the exact same reasons that I suspected them. DoS is on my list because it seemed like he just wanted to fit in with the early pressure on VitR, and he hasn't really contributed anything at all. His early vote for VitR was mere flavor, and doesn't suggest any real willingness to go thorugh with a VitR lynch.

That said, I'm not entirely convinced that Stoof is pro-town. His behavior was obviously anti-VitR yesterday, but I could easily see Stoof throwing a doomed scumbuddy under the bus as hard as he possibly could (much as I would expect myself to do so). If I were looking at everything objectively, I'd probably put Stoof and myself on approximately the same level... Stoof seems to want to further conversation, and in my eyes, he's applying pressure in most of the right places. I don't particularly agree with his stance towards Patrick; I think that Patrick's early "I don't see how Kelly died unless she was killed or used a night action, and I don't see her using a night action as an SK feasable" comment was pretty genuine, as it's exactly why I attacked VitaminR right off the bat... but that seems to be a completely moot point. I do kinda wonder why Stoof would bother saying that Patrick fits the bill. A small part of me is thinking, "It's like he wants us to believe that he's being genuine and completely objective." But I *do* like most of what I'm seeing out of Stoof right now.

Also, Stoof, I disagree completely with your assessment of the sophistication/experience of VitR and his scumbuddies. I think I'd actually be inclined to use such a plan, because the odds of Kelly being the SK are 1/9... that's a very slim chance of getting screwed over. I'm guessing that the scums saw things similarly, and that when Kelly turned up as SK and I proposed that VitR was scum, he panicked and said that he didn't shoot.


I think that I would like Thesp to claim his target and results from last night.
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Post Post #117 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:42 am

Post by DragonsofSummer »

@Glork: You're right I haven't really contributed anything and my vote yesterday was more flavor than actual vote, but I liked your logic about the situation and that is why my vote stayed where it did.

Back to the contributing thing. I will do a re-read and give you my top three suspects by tomorrow.
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Post Post #118 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:10 am

Post by Maz Medias »

Mr Stoofer wrote:There's a world of difference between the following (which focuses on the
quality
of PBuG's play, and not his scumminess):
Zindaras wrote:If PBuG's scum, it means we're in LyLo.

I agree with Glork that it is quite unsettling. I definitely want PBuG to elaborate on his choice.
compared to your post (which says you want to lynch PBuG even though you want more rationale):
Maz Medias wrote:He's probably a good lynch, but I want to hear more rationale.
Oh, wow, thanks so much for telling me what my own post meant! I never could have figured out what I was trying to say without your expert opinion.

Obviously nobody's going to listen to me when I try to point out that I did, in fact, mean the same thing as Zindaras, seeing as how I was agreeing with his position.
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Post Post #119 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:23 pm

Post by PBuG »

Turns out I got something wrong with my role. The ability that I absorb is permanent, but the ability to take an ability is one-shot.
rolandofthewhite (5:40:28 PM): It would be weird living with Thesp. All the hookers murdered and skin lying around. :(
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Post Post #120 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:56 pm

Post by Glork »

Either way, if you're pro-town, you are not to use the ability unless we mislynch
IN LYNCH OR LOSE
.
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Post Post #121 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:52 pm

Post by PBuG »

Fine.
rolandofthewhite (5:40:28 PM): It would be weird living with Thesp. All the hookers murdered and skin lying around. :(
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Post Post #122 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:48 pm

Post by DragonsofSummer »

Alright, Maz is on top of my list because of a few things:
Maz Medias wrote:I was with Jordan last night, in hopes that I could tack myself onto any night-kill immunity. With two killing groups in a small game, I thought that was the best course of action.
This was his first post in the game. I don't like his phrasing of two killing groups, when at this point there was still the potential of three killing groups had VitR been town. It seems he knew Vit wasn't town already at this point.

That was his only post on day one.

I don't like his day 2 play at all for a few reasons. First and formost he feels overly defensive to me. He keeps bringing up how unfortunate it is for him that he said the same thing as Zindaras and its only scummy for him, but it wasn't the same thing at all, and is still contributing nothing except to lash out at people who are showing him how it was different.

Thesp is second because he has added nothing at all to the game so far (I know it is a little hypocritical of me). He has also said that we should lynch PBug today, but only FoS's him and says that he can't figure out why he would take the vig role.

PBuG is third because he did choose the vig ability instead of one that more obviously helps the town.

Also Glork I don't know why you don't like me... I don't dislike you, I nothing you.
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Post Post #123 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:04 pm

Post by Mr Stoofer »

I don't like that post one little bit. Just hopping on/pushing all the developing bandwagons for reasons already given by others.

DragonsofSummer wrote:Also Glork I don't know why you don't like me... I don't dislike you, I nothing you.
I think Glork was just playing his role, he wasn't being personal.
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Post Post #124 (ISO) » Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:06 pm

Post by Mr Stoofer »

I just wrote:for reasons already given by others
Actually that bit's not right. But DoS' post just reeked of opportunism, which was my point.
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