Mini 525 "Masons & Mafia"! (Over)


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Post Post #100 (ISO) » Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:51 pm

Post by Nightfall »

Red is mine.
Yosarian2 wrote:
Nightfall wrote: 1. I didn't claim to not be a mason. I said something more along the lines of not ruling out the
possibility
that I could be a townie and could have been the one targeted which resulted in the mafias death.
It sounded to me like said, several times, in different ways, that you thought he targeted you. As Albert obveously did not target a mason, yeah, I took that to be a "not-mason" claim.

I have been trying to show that i am not scum.
I pointed out that the death of the scum
may
have been the result of him targeting me
if
I really was a townie and managed to get a scum to play chicken with me. In which case I would be a townie and all the people wagoning me are doing so wrongfully. I never said that I was for sure a townie or that I knew scum truely targeted me. I could still very well be a mason like I said before sticking my neck out to see if any scum are willing to take a chance, and the death could have had absolutely nothing to do with me.

Nightfall wrote: Yeah, and maybe he just died trying to target me for a kill.
Nightfall wrote: P.S. theory... I am believed to be the one targeted. scum think Im townie because their scum friend dies, and waldo tries to bus me thinking that he can quickly get rid of another protown member.
So, yeah. It really sounds like you're trying to push the "Albert targeted me" theory, and that would imply you're semi-claiming townie here. Not good.

I pushed that theory as a means of saying see, if I really am a townie, I was able to get one scum to attack me, and now his friends are trying to off me to. I admit theory was the wrong word to use in that post and could have been much better understood if I had maybe used the word "Possibility"?


2. Just how close was I to a lynch when scum made their attack? How many people were defending me or saying that I wasnt acting overly scummy? I think at that point I was further from a lynch than you realize.
Also I think that a mason being offed by scum, would have given scum much more to work with than if I were to be lynched.
(shrug) You were (and are) the main bandwagon. 3 votes, Waldo supporting the wagon while not on it. And of course Albert wasn't on your wagon at that point.

I guess I just think that I'd expect a scum to either try to lynch you, or at least pressure you farther and see who would defend you or whatever, then take a potshot like that. Then again, it is Albert, so who knows what he'd do, heh.

I guess I just wouldn't expect any scum to try to take a risk like that while you were the main wagon and therefore might get lynched anyway. Honestly, it seems more likely that he might have been your scumbuddy and been trying to save you, by trying to kill off one of the people on your wagon or by trying to create a distraction or something.


Just like my original actions this deals alot with wifom type of thoughts. when our scum bit the bullet there were a few more people raising the idea that I could truely be town, and maybe the scum panicked and attacked me (assuming I am townie) and paid the price. In my eyes would have looked a lot better for our now dead scum had I been killed off after he stuck with close to me, rather than letting me get lynched slowly over time.
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Post Post #101 (ISO) » Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:48 pm

Post by ooba »

Whoa .. So much has happened in 12 hours ..
mathcam wrote:There's something to be said for the fact that Nightfall is at lynch-1, that he's posted since this fact was posted by the mod, and there have been no kill attempts. He also didn't point this fact out, which I think he might have done if he were mafia.

Unvote: Nightfall
until we think that point through.

Cam
That is a good point - He's also posted after the VC ..

But ... This could be one of the better mafia strategies - wait till L-1 and have another one of your scum buddies say "He didn't kill so he couldn't be mafia" ..
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Post Post #102 (ISO) » Sun Nov 04, 2007 7:53 pm

Post by ooba »

mathcam wrote:
On that note:
Nightfall wrote:Hey Mafia.... Kill me.... Now.... I order you.....
I have a hard time believing that this post came from anyone other than mafia. Would a mason/town be so cavalier about the information they might be revealing? This feels much more like something a mafia member would think a mafia/town would post. Just instinct, admittedly, but good enough for an early vote.

Vote: Nightfall.


Cam
Combined with the fact that you started the actual bandwagon on Nightfall makes me think that if one of you turn up mafia , the other one is too ..
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Post Post #103 (ISO) » Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:51 am

Post by mathcam »

Nightfall wrote: But ... This could be one of the better mafia strategies - wait till L-1 and have another one of your scum buddies say "He didn't kill so he couldn't be mafia"
While this is certainly a valid point, I encourage you to consider the source. Nightfall's play this game has been anything but subtle, and what you're suggesting would seem to require much more restraint on Nightfall's part than we've seen him display all game.

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Post Post #104 (ISO) » Mon Nov 05, 2007 4:07 am

Post by WaterboyWaldo »

Just a correction: That quote mathcam just mentioned was from ooba, not Nightfall.
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Post Post #105 (ISO) » Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:06 pm

Post by mathcam »

Good point.

In other news -- where'd everybody go?

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Post Post #106 (ISO) » Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:57 pm

Post by Unright »

mathcam wrote:Good point.

In other news -- where'd everybody go?
I'm here. I got real busy the past couple of days and you guys had a flurry of activity. So I'll catch up, digest, and post later tonight (early tomorrow?)
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Post Post #107 (ISO) » Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:45 pm

Post by Miztef »

Nightfall's latest post has cleared up his position a bit for me, I find him even less likely scum now. (I also agree with Mathcam's point about Nightfall, I don't think the mafia would risk that)

Not much else interesting for now, game has kinda calmed down.
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Post Post #108 (ISO) » Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:02 pm

Post by Unright »

Hmm.. I don't like what went down at all... Mathcam's got a point that Nightfall's most reasonable course of action was to make a blind guess if he were scum. Which is damn annoying because he is by far the most scummiest player in the game.

Also anyone that claimed that ABR targeted them (like Waldo and (sigh) Nightfall) is a major suspect in my book. It's a simple, but effective trick for scum to do to look like a townie screwing up their cover.
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Post Post #109 (ISO) » Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:10 pm

Post by mathcam »

Unright wrote:Which is damn annoying because he is by far the most scummiest player in the game.
Heh. This is exactly where I am right now as well. The thing is, my point notwithstanding, I'd
still
put him as about a 50/50 chance at pro-town vs. mafia, which still puts him way higher on my scumometer than anyone else so far.

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Post Post #110 (ISO) » Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:09 am

Post by Unright »

Well, since I guess we're giving Nightfall a pass for now, then we need a new target.

vote: Eteocles


Since he, along with ABR, tried to defend Nightfall and since I really consider Nightfall to be scummy.
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Post Post #111 (ISO) » Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:20 am

Post by Nightfall »

Is that the only reason your voting him? because he didn't find me scummy?
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Post Post #112 (ISO) » Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:10 am

Post by Unright »

Sure, why not? He's only made 3 posts (all 3 days ago).

1. Making a random vote despite general agreement against it. Gives no real defense as to why it's good. Only seems to have skimmed the thread.
2. "EBWOP: Oh and the Nightfall post means shit." <- WTF? Do you have any meta familiarity that justifies this type of dismissal?
3. Proud of meaningless posts. Defends NF (again) re: Archaist.

He's done something that could be considered scummy in every post he's made. Plus, the only other person to outright defend you turned out to be a member of the mafia. It's a circumstantial connection, but it's the best lead I've got right now.

He's now got a vote on him so he needs to show up and defend himself. If his defense is lackluster, I strongly urge the rest of the town to quick lynch him.
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Post Post #113 (ISO) » Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:43 am

Post by Nightfall »

That's not voting him just because he defended me though.
There's other stuff there too.
And that statement about him being the only other player to defend me isnt true.
There are other players in this game that raised doubts earlier on in my wagon that I may not be scum.
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Post Post #114 (ISO) » Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:03 pm

Post by Yosarian2 »

mathcam wrote:There's something to be said for the fact that Nightfall is at lynch-1, that he's posted since this fact was posted by the mod, and there have been no kill attempts. He also didn't point this fact out, which I think he might have done if he were mafia.

Unvote: Nightfall
until we think that point through.

Cam
Interesting point, Mathcam. I guess the question is, would a scum nightfall in that situation think he was about to get lynched and take a 50/50 shot at taking a mason down with him, or would he think he had better odds by just defending himself and trying to not be lynched?
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Post Post #115 (ISO) » Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:36 pm

Post by mathcam »

Good counter-question, Yos. :)

In short, I don't know. I don't know Nightfall very well, and I suspect that he'd make different decisions than I would, but I think that it would depend on the air of the town. If
I
were Nightfall a page of posts ago, I wouldn't have expected much in terms of leniency from the town. The lack of unvotes since then is probably a confirmation of that. That would seem to imply taking a stab at killing someone, which didn't happen. That said, I am not Nightfall, or more to the point, Nightfall is not me. If anything, Nightfall's posts make me lean toward thinking he'd believe he could get himself out of a mess. Finally, it's also possible that he didn't pay too close attention to the vote count, or didn't realize he was at lynch-1.

Since it's such a close call, and no one else jumps out at me as scummy (and the risks associated with discussing other potential lynch targets), I think I'm back to leaning toward lynching Nightfall. If nothing else, we'll have the potential to gain more information by leaving him at lynch-1.

Vote: Nightfall.


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Post Post #116 (ISO) » Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:35 pm

Post by Miztef »

Based on all the opinions about Nightfall, I am still more inclined to believe he is not scum.

I believe he would definitely attempt to kill someone when at L-1, although, I can see how it may be a decent strategy to not kill at L-1. It was quite fast as well (only a few pages in), so it may not seem as urgent, cause lynches don't usually happen that fast.

I dunno... I keep changing my mind on the issue. For now though, I am not going to vote to him.


Unright's jump towards eteocles intrigues me though. I still find the "I don't mind posting meaningless posts" line so odd. Why would anyone say this line?

He however, seems to have also defended Nightfall, so if Nightfall turns out to be scum, I am more inclined to believe eteocles is scum. (This may be hypocritical though, considering I have also defending nightfall to some extent)
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Post Post #117 (ISO) » Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:10 pm

Post by WaterboyWaldo »

Well, I think that killing Nightfall is a great course of action because he is scum, and, regardless of alliance, so many people are tied to him that it would give us a bounty of information when he dies.

Also, we can't assume that the mafia will kill at lynch-1, because now they can use it to their advantage and NOT attempt a kill to make themselves looks good.

It looks like we'll have to
get a new Mastermind of Sin.
I was looking forward to playing with him, but he apparently does not share the same notion.
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Post Post #118 (ISO) » Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:32 pm

Post by Nightfall »

WaterboyWaldo wrote: Also, we can't assume that the mafia will kill at lynch-1, because now they can use it to their advantage and NOT attempt a kill to make themselves looks good.
Excuse me? Does that make any sense?

Math - yes I realized I was -1 but what else can I do but talk? With this group of people and the speed at which they bandwagond if I was scum I would have taken my chances at offing someone. Look at how easily Yos just turned your vote back onto me.

If I get lynched, and I turn up pro town, please take a closer look at Arc, Waldo, and Yos.
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Post Post #119 (ISO) » Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:15 pm

Post by mathcam »

Waldo wrote: It looks like we'll have to get a new Mastermind of Sin. I was looking forward to playing with him, but he apparently does not share the same notion.
Quite wrong. Playing with MoS is one of MoS's favorite things to do.

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Post Post #120 (ISO) » Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:14 pm

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

Whoa I'm in this game! >.<

Original Roll String: 1d12
1 12-Sided Dice: (6) = 6
Permanent V/LA.
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Post Post #121 (ISO) » Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:14 pm

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

Vote: tyhess


Die scum die.
Permanent V/LA.
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Post Post #122 (ISO) » Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:20 am

Post by WaterboyWaldo »

We've already had one mafia member kill himself, and we've already decided that random votes are harmful to the town. Now is not the time to use dice.

My expectations have been shot :(
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Post Post #123 (ISO) » Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:29 am

Post by tyhess »

I think MoS might be trying to look like scum and then anyone who votes for him is obviously scum :).....but seriously......a random vote at this point???
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Post Post #124 (ISO) » Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:40 am

Post by Archaist »

Miztef wrote:I believe he would definitely attempt to kill someone when at L-1, although, I can see how it may be a decent strategy to not kill at L-1.
Actually, I think for the Mafia killing at L-1 would be a bad plan, as no matter what the result of their kill, the Town would see it and lynch them. Because of this I am inclined to believe Nightfall is Mafia, and here's why; If a pro-town player were at L-1, then the Mafia, knowing the pro-town player would be highly suspected if any kills were made, would attempt a kill and all suspicions of who made that kill (if successful) would go to the person at L-1. I don't think the Mafia will attempt kills when they are at L-1, rather, they will attempt kills when a pro-town player is at L-1 because that would give them a chance to get rid of two pro-town players in one swoop. Because no kills have been attempted I think Nightfall is the most suspicious right now.
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