Mini 525 "Masons & Mafia"! (Over)


Forum rules
User avatar
PookyTheMagicalBear
PookyTheMagicalBear
Pooky got your back
User avatar
User avatar
PookyTheMagicalBear
Pooky got your back
Pooky got your back
Posts: 36318
Joined: August 17, 2003

Mini 525 "Masons & Mafia"! (Over)

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:20 am

Post by PookyTheMagicalBear »

Masons and Mafia!(Open Nightless)

4 Mafia
4 Masons(Know Each Other + Guaranteed Innocence)
4 Townie

A Live Mafia Member may at any point in the game submit Kill X privately to the Moderator, a player may submit multiple kill orders but they will be resolved in the order they were received.

If X is a Mason, he will be killed, If X is not a Mason, the Mafia Member submitting the kill will be killed.

Mafia&Mason Members have a pregame session to plan strategy or what not but afterwards may not communicate privately.

Once the lynching vote has been cast for a Mafia Member, they are considered "Lynched" and may not commit any kills.

Alive:
ooba
Mr.Flay(Replaced thedragonsprincess)(replaced Archaist)
Mastermind of Sin

Dead:
Albert B. Rampage(Mafia, Failed Daykill, Day 1)
Nightfall(Townie, Lynched Day 1)
WaterboyWaldo(Mason, Daykilled Day 2)
Mathcam(Townie, Lynched Day 2)
SweatPantsNinja(Townie Lynched Day 3)
Miztef(Mafia, Failed Daykill Day 4)
Distad(Mason, Daykilled Day 4)
Yosarian(Mafia, Failed Daykill Day 4)
tyhess (Mafia, Lynched Day 5)

All Role PMs have been sent, if you do not receive one, please contact me.

Mafia and Masons may talk privately until Friday 5 PM EST, at which point the game will begin.
Last edited by PookyTheMagicalBear on Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:52 pm, edited 10 times in total.
User avatar
PookyTheMagicalBear
PookyTheMagicalBear
Pooky got your back
User avatar
User avatar
PookyTheMagicalBear
Pooky got your back
Pooky got your back
Posts: 36318
Joined: August 17, 2003

Post Post #1 (ISO) » Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:15 pm

Post by PookyTheMagicalBear »

Game begins now.

With 12 alive, it will take 7 votes to lynch a player.
Show
"I can't even look at the game anymore.
That evil teddy bear has got everyone twirling by his thumb.
It's like witnessing an slow but unavoidable train crash you can't stop."

-Norwee


"Please refrain from diverting our sleuths out there Pooky."
~Maple
User avatar
WaterboyWaldo
WaterboyWaldo
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
WaterboyWaldo
Goon
Goon
Posts: 122
Joined: September 17, 2007
Location: Try to find me!

Post Post #2 (ISO) » Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:27 pm

Post by WaterboyWaldo »

First vote!

Vote: Yosarian2
User avatar
Yosarian2
Yosarian2
(shrug)
User avatar
User avatar
Yosarian2
(shrug)
(shrug)
Posts: 16394
Joined: March 28, 2005
Location: New Jersey

Post Post #3 (ISO) » Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:27 pm

Post by Yosarian2 »

First post woot!

Random though; it seems to me that random voting might not be useful this game.

In fact, in some ways, this game almost feels like a varient of "assasins in the palace".
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
User avatar
Yosarian2
Yosarian2
(shrug)
User avatar
User avatar
Yosarian2
(shrug)
(shrug)
Posts: 16394
Joined: March 28, 2005
Location: New Jersey

Post Post #4 (ISO) » Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:29 pm

Post by Yosarian2 »

Ok, so not the first post. Darn simulpost.
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
User avatar
WaterboyWaldo
WaterboyWaldo
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
WaterboyWaldo
Goon
Goon
Posts: 122
Joined: September 17, 2007
Location: Try to find me!

Post Post #5 (ISO) » Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:31 pm

Post by WaterboyWaldo »

Yosarian2 wrote:In fact, in some ways, this game almost feels like a varient of "assasins in the palace".
Eh? Can I get a link to said game?
User avatar
ooba
ooba
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
ooba
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 5616
Joined: September 14, 2007
Location: Outpost 31

Post Post #6 (ISO) » Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:32 pm

Post by ooba »

First name in the list ..

vote : Albert B. Rampage


Link to Assassins in the Palace ..
User avatar
Yosarian2
Yosarian2
(shrug)
User avatar
User avatar
Yosarian2
(shrug)
(shrug)
Posts: 16394
Joined: March 28, 2005
Location: New Jersey

Post Post #7 (ISO) » Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:35 pm

Post by Yosarian2 »

...

Did you guys miss the part where random votes might not be good in this game?

Anyway, the way it's like "Assasins in the palace" is that in this game, the town does NOT want the scum to find the masons, so we have to be careful what we say.
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
User avatar
WaterboyWaldo
WaterboyWaldo
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
WaterboyWaldo
Goon
Goon
Posts: 122
Joined: September 17, 2007
Location: Try to find me!

Post Post #8 (ISO) » Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:03 pm

Post by WaterboyWaldo »

unvote
for now.
User avatar
Unright
Unright
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Unright
Goon
Goon
Posts: 252
Joined: September 2, 2007
Location: Bradenton, FL

Post Post #9 (ISO) » Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:04 pm

Post by Unright »

Aw.. But this is my first game with the legendary mathcam. I
really
wanted to vote for him.... :x
Vote Right -- Unvote Unright!
User avatar
mathcam
mathcam
Captain Observant
User avatar
User avatar
mathcam
Captain Observant
Captain Observant
Posts: 6116
Joined: November 22, 2002

Post Post #10 (ISO) » Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:13 pm

Post by mathcam »

Yosarian2 wrote:we have to be careful what we say.
Indeed -- especially be cautious of whether or not a given post gives off the impression that you had the chance to talk to people last night (or not).
Yosarian2 wrote:it seems to me that random voting might not be useful this game.
Perhaps, though an actual random vote, instead of random-unless-its-one-of-your-buddies vote, seem pretty harmless.
Unright wrote:Aw.. But this is my first game with the legendary mathcam. I really wanted to vote for him....
Well, that wouldn't be random, and Yos only seemed opposed to random votes. I say go for it.

Cam
User avatar
WaterboyWaldo
WaterboyWaldo
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
WaterboyWaldo
Goon
Goon
Posts: 122
Joined: September 17, 2007
Location: Try to find me!

Post Post #11 (ISO) » Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:13 pm

Post by WaterboyWaldo »

Are you suggesting that you can't vote for mathcam unless it's a random vote? I guess that would make you mafiosi then.


FOS: Unright.
User avatar
Yosarian2
Yosarian2
(shrug)
User avatar
User avatar
Yosarian2
(shrug)
(shrug)
Posts: 16394
Joined: March 28, 2005
Location: New Jersey

Post Post #12 (ISO) » Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:25 pm

Post by Yosarian2 »

mathcam wrote: Perhaps, though an actual random vote, instead of random-unless-its-one-of-your-buddies vote, seem pretty harmless.
I guess...not sure what the point is then, though, and it still seems like any reactions that might come from a vote like that are as likely to hurt us as they are to help us.
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
User avatar
mathcam
mathcam
Captain Observant
User avatar
User avatar
mathcam
Captain Observant
Captain Observant
Posts: 6116
Joined: November 22, 2002

Post Post #13 (ISO) » Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:51 pm

Post by mathcam »

Yosarian2 wrote: I guess...not sure what the point is then, though, and it still seems like any reactions that might come from a vote like that are as likely to hurt us as they are to help us.
Agreed, though even in normal games, the merits of true random voting weren't exactly overwhelming anyway.

I guess the dangerous aspect is when masons "random vote" among the non-masons -- if/when that mason gets killed, the mafia can then look back and presume that the target was probably not a mason, and they'll know if they're not mafia, and hence possibly get a free kill.

That said, the second most dangerous is when masons do the opposite of what I just said -- in the sense that if there's any distinction between what townies and masons are supposed to do, then that helps the mafia figure out which is which.

Man. At least the mafia have as many pitfalls to fall into as the rest of us.

Cam
User avatar
Unright
Unright
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Unright
Goon
Goon
Posts: 252
Joined: September 2, 2007
Location: Bradenton, FL

Post Post #14 (ISO) » Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:59 pm

Post by Unright »

Yosarian2 wrote:I guess...not sure what the point is then, though, and it still seems like any reactions that might come from a vote like that are as likely to hurt us as they are to help us.
So.. We're going for a reactionless game? Should I break out some tea and scones?
WaterboyWaldo wrote:Are you suggesting that you can't vote for mathcam unless it's a random vote? I guess that would make you mafiosi then.

FOS: Unright.
Wow, you must be a big fan of taffy!
Vote Right -- Unvote Unright!
User avatar
Miztef
Miztef
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Miztef
Goon
Goon
Posts: 827
Joined: April 20, 2007
Location: Ottawa, Ontario

Post Post #15 (ISO) » Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:03 pm

Post by Miztef »

WaterboyWaldo wrote:Are you suggesting that you can't vote for mathcam unless it's a random vote? I guess that would make you mafiosi then.


FOS: Unright.
That is just ridiculous. Besides the fact that they could be masons together by your logic, that's not even what unright meant. Unright was referring to the fact that random voting is not very useful in this set-up, as Yosarian2 has pointed out. (I don't understand this logic, but I'm assuming Unright is following it, as that is what seems the case)

mathcam wrote:Perhaps, though an actual random vote, instead of random-unless-its-one-of-your-buddies vote, seem pretty harmless.
I suppose... I've never played in a set-up like this. I don't actually know how things work really, so I'm just going on other people's experience.

@Yosarian2: Can I get an explaination on why random votes are not useful in this game?


This is the way I see it, but I could be wrong:

Mafia & masons know their respective groups. "Random" votes could hurt the town, as masons may choose not to random vote other masons, and the scum could pick up on it. So it may be more useful to not random vote at all.
User avatar
Miztef
Miztef
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Miztef
Goon
Goon
Posts: 827
Joined: April 20, 2007
Location: Ottawa, Ontario

Post Post #16 (ISO) » Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:07 pm

Post by Miztef »

sorry, small edit on last post:

Where I said (I don't understand this logic...), I thought about it later while writing the post, and that's why my conclusion contradicts it. Sorry about that.

Would still like an explanation from Yosarian2 though, as I'm a little sketchy on it.
User avatar
Yosarian2
Yosarian2
(shrug)
User avatar
User avatar
Yosarian2
(shrug)
(shrug)
Posts: 16394
Joined: March 28, 2005
Location: New Jersey

Post Post #17 (ISO) » Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:12 pm

Post by Yosarian2 »

Unright wrote: So.. We're going for a reactionless game? Should I break out some tea and scones?
Not...reactionless. But it might be better to carefully decide who you want to try to get a reaction from, if you know what I mean.
Miztef wrote: @Yosarian2: Can I get an explaination on why random votes are not useful in this game?


This is the way I see it, but I could be wrong:

Mafia & masons know their respective groups. "Random" votes could hurt the town, as masons may choose not to random vote other masons, and the scum could pick up on it. So it may be more useful to not random vote at all.
Right, that's really the big thing. In a "normal" game, masons won't random vote each other usually; if masons play like that here, then random voting=bad. There's trisky WIFOMy type stuff that makes that a lot more complex, of course, but considering how little random voting usually helps even in a normal game, it seemed better to just skip the whole thing. Basically almost the same arugment I made in the "Assasins in the Palace" game ooba just linked to.
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
User avatar
Unright
Unright
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Unright
Goon
Goon
Posts: 252
Joined: September 2, 2007
Location: Bradenton, FL

Post Post #18 (ISO) » Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:15 pm

Post by Unright »

Miztef wrote:That is just ridiculous. Besides the fact that they could be masons together by your logic, that's not even what unright meant. Unright was referring to the fact that random voting is not very useful in this set-up, as Yosarian2 has pointed out. (I don't understand this logic, but I'm assuming Unright is following it, as that is what seems the case)
Huh.. I make one innocuous comment and one person interprets it as being a scumtell, while another interprets it as blind agreement with a third party.

Oy vey.. This is going to be an interesting game.

For now though, let's let Unright speak about what Unright means, what Unright is referring to, and what Unright is following.
Vote Right -- Unvote Unright!
User avatar
ooba
ooba
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
ooba
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 5616
Joined: September 14, 2007
Location: Outpost 31

Post Post #19 (ISO) » Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:25 pm

Post by ooba »

Mafia & masons know their respective groups. "Random" votes could hurt the town, as masons may choose not to random vote other masons, and the scum could pick up on it. So it may be more useful to not random vote at all.
But this could work against the mafia too .
a) Your reasoning could extend to Mafia too where we can deduce that the player random voted by mafia mostly should be town
b) And if it is a truly "random" vote (i.e where the probability of voting all other players was equal),then there is no information divulged from random voting.

But there is a certain amount of merit to what you're saying so
Unvote
User avatar
Archaist
Archaist
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Archaist
Goon
Goon
Posts: 390
Joined: March 28, 2007

Post Post #20 (ISO) » Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:45 pm

Post by Archaist »

Well, if it's not a good idea to throw around random votes, then how do you think we should get the game going?
User avatar
Nightfall
Nightfall
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Nightfall
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2631
Joined: May 15, 2005
Location: Canada

Post Post #21 (ISO) » Fri Nov 02, 2007 6:22 pm

Post by Nightfall »

Hey Mafia.... Kill me.... Now.... I order you.....
Once Nightfall comes, everyone's dead...
User avatar
WaterboyWaldo
WaterboyWaldo
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
WaterboyWaldo
Goon
Goon
Posts: 122
Joined: September 17, 2007
Location: Try to find me!

Post Post #22 (ISO) » Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:09 pm

Post by WaterboyWaldo »

Miztef wrote:
WaterboyWaldo wrote:Are you suggesting that you can't vote for mathcam unless it's a random vote? I guess that would make you mafiosi then.


FOS: Unright.
That is just ridiculous. Besides the fact that they could be masons together by your logic, that's not even what unright meant.
No, because masons could vote to throw the mafia off the trail.

...Although I suppose the mafia could do that too, so I guess I didn't think out my brilliant strategy enough.
User avatar
mathcam
mathcam
Captain Observant
User avatar
User avatar
mathcam
Captain Observant
Captain Observant
Posts: 6116
Joined: November 22, 2002

Post Post #23 (ISO) » Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:00 pm

Post by mathcam »

The tricky part to this game is that the town needs a solid strategy for this game, and the kicker is that it's difficult to discuss strategy without giving away whether or not you're town or mason, and thus had time to discuss strategy with other people. So I apologize for the awkward phrasing of some of my sentences -- I'm trying to phrase it so that it could either be coming as a synopsis of the part of the mason discussion, or as the ideas of an individual townie. Here goes.

We actually have a pretty serious problem as regards to voting, random or not. By me voting for Player X, I'm effectively saying "I am not mason partners with Player X." In addition to making it more likely than X and I are both townies, it also will give away significant information about the other as soon as one of the two of us dies. I think the only solution is that masons have to play as if they were townies, at least in the early stages of the game -- i.e., ignoring the fact that they know who their co-masons are, and vote solely based on how scummy they find a particular person.

On that note:
Nightfall wrote:Hey Mafia.... Kill me.... Now.... I order you.....
I have a hard time believing that this post came from anyone other than mafia. Would a mason/town be so cavalier about the information they might be revealing? This feels much more like something a mafia member would think a mafia/town would post. Just instinct, admittedly, but good enough for an early vote.

Vote: Nightfall.


Cam
User avatar
tyhess
tyhess
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
tyhess
Goon
Goon
Posts: 599
Joined: August 30, 2007

Post Post #24 (ISO) » Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:13 am

Post by tyhess »

mathcam wrote:The tricky part to this game is that the town needs a solid strategy for this game, and the kicker is that it's difficult to discuss strategy without giving away whether or not you're town or mason, and thus had time to discuss strategy with other people. So I apologize for the awkward phrasing of some of my sentences -- I'm trying to phrase it so that it could either be coming as a synopsis of the part of the mason discussion, or as the ideas of an individual townie. Here goes.

We actually have a pretty serious problem as regards to voting, random or not. By me voting for Player X, I'm effectively saying "I am not mason partners with Player X." In addition to making it more likely than X and I are both townies, it also will give away significant information about the other as soon as one of the two of us dies. I think the only solution is that masons have to play as if they were townies, at least in the early stages of the game -- i.e., ignoring the fact that they know who their co-masons are, and vote solely based on how scummy they find a particular person.

You seem to want to want to seem as if your a mason or town. I have a question for you about that-why do you want to seem like there's a chance your a mason?? You said that you don't want to seem like you've had time to discuss strategy, which to means that you have, which would make you mafia or masons. But anyways back to my questions, Why would you want to try to seem like anything elses other than town???


mathcam wrote: On that note:
Nightfall wrote:Hey Mafia.... Kill me.... Now.... I order you.....
I have a hard time believing that this post came from anyone other than mafia. Would a mason/town be so cavalier about the information they might be revealing? This feels much more like something a mafia member would think a mafia/town would post. Just instinct, admittedly, but good enough for an early vote.

Vote: Nightfall.


Cam
I have to agree with you on this part. This posts seems to reek mafia

Vote: Nightfall
Locked