13p Normal [TM2015]

[pieguyn]

post

so instead of trying to point me towards actual stuff I should be looking for in order to town read you, you spend all your effort making sure everyone in this game knows that I supposedly can't read you for shit - despite (as you said in that post) me not actually having to read you in like 7 of those games.

the only game where I really had to form a read on you was TH 3, and, as you said, your RL went to shit that game and affected your play to the point where other people who were familiar with your play had also read you as scum. trying to claim I'm complete shit at reading you as a result of that is disingenuous - sure, I read you incorrectly, but it'd be like calling me scum in a game for lurking when I just have RL factors that make me unable to post. using me "dismissing" you in a rude way to claim I can't read you is also disingenuous, because you completely ignore the context - I had an ultra strong town read on one of the scum in that game that I would not reevaluate. keeping that in mind, it is reasonable to stop you from going and attempting to shoot her. so, what exactly is the problem here?

you also continue to ignore that mastin's scum read on you is not solely based on the fact that you voted TH, but your general play starting from there - and that it's not just the fact you avoided Thor but the WAY you did it. this is a large part of why I think you're just BS'ing here.

*if* you want to show me why I should read you as town here, I'll analyze it, but it's as I said. you're not, and instead making even more noise so that people don't realize you don't actually have a point here.

The way you started D1 was tunneling, but you substantially got better when you realized that notty was townreading me. You never once stopped scumreading me, granted you stopped pushing me. So actively tunneling me yes, actively tunneling-pushing me no. I would have thought you would have asked your whole team for a read on me. Notty isn't the only one on your team that has experience with playing with me.

so, I'm apparently "tunneling" because I didn't go out of my way to ask my entire team for a read on you. are you actually serious? even if I was aware mastin and Mara supposedly know how to read you, you outright fucking claimed in the game thread (actually now that I think about it it might not have been this game specifically, but I know you said this at one point, and I know it's true) that notsci and you were BFFs offsite. after he gave me a town read, I dropped my read in favor of his.

. . .

how exactly is that tunneling? it's exactly the opposite: I'm willing to drop my read when told by someone with more experience with me that I was wrong. and again, you're using the fact I continued thinking you were scum as an excuse to claim I'm tunneling, when my behavior in the game thread quite clearly indicated I did not want you lynched at that point in the game.

I don't believe for two seconds you think that makes sense. I think you're trying to claim I'm "tunneling" you as an excuse to discredit my/mastin's scum read on you, since you expect people not to listen to those who are labeled as "tunneling". even despite the fact that I am scum reading you, I am not tunneling: I am attempting to analyze your posts objectively, and I am finding that none of them make much sense from a town player.

/shrug

I didn't say her read is invalid. I want her to read from D1 start to now and see if it changes. She's wrong, you are wrong. You both need to stop and face the music.

you didn't directly say her read is invalid, no. it's specifically HOW you're doing it here that makes me think you're attempting to discredit over actually reach out here.

you're making a huge point of making sure that everyone in the game knows that mastin had only read from the end of D1. I think you're doing this because you think people will be less likely to listen to a read coming from someone who hasn't fully read the game, so you make a huge point of this in order to discredit her read on you.

and even if this was the case, I don't believe you legitimately think this makes sense. I think you're aware that mastin's RL situation is fairly busy, that she's V/LA on weekends, and that she at several points does not have enough time to contribute fully to games. I think you're suggesting this, knowing full well that there is a relatively good chance mastin won't be able to actually read the full game - which will put her in a position where you can just claim "lol, you haven't read the game" and tell her to read it whenever she wants to push you as scum.

both of these are fairly typical scum manoeuvres in order to make someone attacking you look worse than you. it's all posturing, really - and this is why I do not see a town approach in the way you're playing this game day.

I don't do the 'tell me why you are town shit'. I don't like that shit at all that anyone pulls in a game. If you don't think I'm town by an ISO then tough shit. Give me a point by point reason why i'm scum and I'll try to refute a case. People telling someone to point out why I'm town is scummy as fuck, I'm sorry.

are you actually serious? you're claiming I'm wrong and asking me to reread you and YOU DON'T EVEN TELL ME WHAT I SHOULD BE LOOKING FOR THAT I'M MISSING. serious question: I'm supposedly misreading you. why exactly would you expect me to read you any differently if I look at your ISO in the current gamestate?

*you* are the one claiming I should not be misreading you here. the burden of proof is on *you* to explain why this is the case.

you're just repeating that I'm reading you wrong and hoping people believe it without thinking critically - as opposed to, for instance, starting off by actually engaging me on why I actually think you're scum. and I could potentially see this, except YOU KEEP SAYING THAT MASTIN WAS SCUM READING YOU EXCLUSIVELY BASED AROUND YOUR END-OF-D1 PLAY, AND IMMEDIATELY ASSUMED AS MUCH WHEN I FIRST ANNOUNCED SHE HAD A SCUM READ ON YOU. this is, again, why I'm not seeing a town approach here.

the last sentence is also amusing, given you appear to believe I'm town.

[pieguyn]

VOTE: DW.

I don't like the whole let's flashwagon Boon. He tried to derail both the TH and the Thor lynch, granted he was in the same boat as me for not wanting to lynch Thor, but there was no reason for him to try derail the TH lynch either like he did. The only reason why he would derail the TH was because he had a higher scumread on Boon. Boon went V/LA, didn't claim. Why was there a sudden push for wanting Boon lynched like ~hours~ before the deadline.

here Mala is claiming DW is scum and saying that "there is no reason for him to derail the TH lynch like he did". this is, again, objectively false. DW said this _in the game thread_:

I've been on the fence about Trojan for a while, but I'll give my team some credit on this one. Plus, I'm not about to lynch a D1 PR claim.

DW made it pretty clear what his motivation was: he was on the fence about TH and wasn't sold on the wagon. this is a perfectly valid reason for not wanting to vote someone and make a last-ditch attempt to lynch elsewhere.

this is typical scum behavior. Mala is not attempting to form a read here, or critically think about what happened in the game. rather, she is taking something that DW already explained, and inventing some alternative cosmic motivation in order to justify using it as a scum read. but, OK. suppose she was right about this and that is why DW voted Boon. why is this scummy? what does DW-scum have to gain by doing this? why *couldn't* DW do it as town? this isn't a good reason for reading DW as scum, and she's not thinking about this because she doesn't *have* to fucking think about it - she wants to push DW as scum and is making the evidence fit her conclusion.

I was apologizing to TH because I didn't like the thought of lynching him. Towards the end of the day I was getting a bit of a townread on Trojan for the way he was expressing his last reads from his team. It felt town-motivated like he was trying to give his last will. That's what made me believe that Trojan was flipping town and I apologized because I didn't want to lynch town, but at the same time I didn't want to lynch Thor, who claimed a PR. I was conflicted and I knew that I couldn't wagon anyone else.

but now Mala claims that she didn't have particularly strong feelings about TH being scum either. so, if she _herself_ didn't have a strong read on TH, exactly what is wrong with DW doing the _exact same fucking thing_?

she knows it's not a scum tell, but is pushing it anyway. this is highly disingenuous and likely scum.

[pieguyn]

@sthar: look at the timestamps. there were literally 6 fucking seconds left until the deadline hit and we'd get a no lynch. you might jump on at the last minute in order to not look bad off it, yes, but not in a situation like that where not doing so would literally not cause Thor to even get lynched. /shrug

[Nexus]

Votecount 2.1:

Malakittens (3)-

Save The Dragons, pieguyn, SleepyKrew

VysePresident (2)-

Trojan Horse, Egg

DeltaWave (2)-

Boonskiies, Malakittens

Egg (1)-

sthar8

Not voting (3)-

jasonT1981, VysePresident, DeltaWave

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Deadline is at 6pm on the 30th April 2015. (expired on 2015-04-30 13:00:00)

[Malakittens]

I'm going to prod dodge for the next few rl days.

Wanna know the worst part about this post. Even if you active lurk you'll get away with it because there's so much fucking damn attention/pressure on me that this shits going go and get unnoticed.

[SleepyKrew]

or it's because I'm obvtown
I don't normally say that, and I usually detest when others do, but this is the most obvtown I've felt in ages.

[Malakittens]

lolno. I beg to differ. You are deff not Obv town. You are being townread by a few, but you aren't an universal townread. There's a difference.

[Malakittens]

Will reply to sthar and Pie after my 12 hour tommorow. That's if my manager doesn't end up ticking me off to the point im a fiery ball of rage.

[Save The Dragons]

Trojan:

Delta voting Boon put boon at 1 since Egg just unvoted Boon in his previous post...the vote count is literally the post before Egg's. So he's basically jumping off a 4 person wagon to hit up a 2 person wagon a day before deadline...given that he's been pretty anti no lynch I really don't see your point.

---

I agree with 1025. I don't really see the point of Mala showcasing her meta wrt being read nor asking mastin to try again with her read. I disagree with the accusation of tunneling.

---

sth8r

Why do you consider a Hider a strong investigative role? And would you back up the claims you are making about zor and the setup?

---

delta

less getting baited more VCA please

---

lastly sk you're not as obvtown as you think you are if you are town don't push it

[SleepyKrew]

lolno. I beg to differ. You are deff not Obv town. You are being townread by a few, but you aren't an universal townread. There's a difference.

lastly sk you're not as obvtown as you think you are if you are town don't push it

w/e I'm not getting lynched today

[pieguyn]

Pie was literally like a beacon of hope for me, multiple times parting the seas and leading the way towards Thor as a valid lynch, her posts like a flaming sword to cut through the verbose, timewasting arguments to expose the scummy intent beneath for all to see.

just saw this

if this is real, I'm sig'ing this postgame. this is one of the most beautiful things I've ever read.

<3

[Trojan Horse]

Trojan:

Delta voting Boon put boon at 1 since Egg just unvoted Boon in his previous post...the vote count is literally the post before Egg's.

Whoops! You're right. I need to read these things more carefully.

Okay. So much for my argument against Egg. My top scum candidates are Vyse and Mala. Vyse, where are you?

[Save The Dragons]

SK why did you feel the need to announce that you were going to prod dodge?
What's your opinion on malakittens that's more than just 'she's buzzwordy'?

[Malakittens]

tbh SK's post to me felt like a salt in the wound type post to me.

Like neener neeener I can get away with shit like this.

I hated it so fucking much

still a quick post bc im at work rn

[Egg]

Sleepykrew, Day 1 no lynches basically makes Day 2 a second Day 1 but with a dead town player in damn near every game where it happens. Do you disagree? Also, Cheet wants to know why Mala isn't in your lynch pool.

Pie, you can tell Mastin I'm not really even close to scum reading you right now. It's just that if someone decided to hard bus, I find you more likely that sthar (maybe), Trojan the counter wagon, STD who got emotional when he was fighting with Thor, dead town Fenchurch, or myself who I know is town. If someone bussed, it had to be Sleepykrew or you with an outside chance of sthar. But I agree with you that we'll probably find both scum on the Trojan wagon and that's where I'm most interested in lynching from today as I said. Wait. Mastin thinks Boon is town for NOT hammering scum? Because he'd obviously hammer his scum buddy? No. I disagree with that.

What exactly about Pie's play looks like bussing

It doesn't. If she bussed, she did it well.

I don't like Mala asking Pie for Mastin's read on her and then explaining that it should be a perfect read. If Pie were scum, couldn't Mastin just get it right from knowing? If Pie is town, there's obviously a chance Mastin could be wrong. So what does this question accomplish? It doesn't sort Pie at all, so it feels like an appeal to be town read.

You said both of us
Why did you say both of us

Dunno to be honest. Looks like I misremembered or mistyped or something. Maybe whoever I was responding to included both of you and I didn't fact check.

Boon, why is Mala town?

I retract my previous belief that {Thor, Mala, Boons} is the scumteam...it's a pretty ballsy scum move to post the exact same readslist right after each other

It's probably Vyse and one of Boon/Mala.

Are we allowed to talk about tokens, and where we put them at?

Are you even reading? Not wanting to talk about it was a point being used against Jason Day 1.

This post is too wishy washy for me. Who exactly are you scum reading? He's setting himself up so he can vote in any direction without getting scrutinized for it. Congratulations, Egg, you are now only the 2nd scummiest person here.

VOTE: Delta

I'm not seeing it that way. He says Jason is town. He says Sleepykrew is town. He says you are scum. The only possibly wishy washy stances are backing off of STD and Pie. I don't think that post warranted that reaction from you.

Mala's entire argument with Pie rubs me the wrong way. Post 996 by Pie pretty much sums up why.

Trojan, yeah, your lynch was more likely than Boon's and I wanted to lynch someone who didn't claim a power role. My scum read on you wasn't as strong as on Boon but there just wasn't support.

I was conflicted and I knew that I couldn't wagon anyone else.

Yet you were so dead set against a Boon wagon starting up.

Beyond that, Boon is pretty damn town. Mala and Vyse are just now getting their heads in the game, and I'm willing to give them the space to do that. If they lapse into lurking or otherwise become unreadable we can talk about them.

So they are town unless they lurk?

@pie- you don't think that Egg wouldn't be tempted to jump Thor's obviously sinking ship to be a part of an otherwise all-town wagon? Even under pressure, when he knew that he was visibly active at deadline?

If I was scum planning on bussing, I'd have done it long before the last minute before deadline.

[Boonskiies]

@Egg - I've already linked to a game that shows how pointlessly hammer my scum buddies. Even without letting them claim sometimes. People on the site think I have a mod setup where it alerts me if someone is at L-1, and I come in.

Also, I've explained my Mala town read. At least 4 fucking times. Everything that's being said about her can be said in a town pushing perspective as well. My team, specifically GuyInFreezer, read Mala as town. I'm going to trust it, as my scum reads are different.

[Boonskiies]

Also, egg, I'm with you on lynching in the Trojan wagon; let's lynch Delta now.

[Malakittens]

Mala wrote:
I was conflicted and I knew that I couldn't wagon anyone else.



Yet you were so dead set against a Boon wagon starting up.

I already explained why I was dead set against it. Making me repeat it is like beating a dead horse.

Boon was/is a townread. He was a pretty strong townread during D1.
He didn't have time to claim if a flashwagon came up.
He didn't have time to give out his last reads/flesh them out.
Running him up and lynching him would have been an unnecessary and the likelihood of a super scum driven wagon.

[Save The Dragons]

Boon, will you humor me and enumerate the reasons why GIF thinks Mala is town?

[jasonT1981]

Bloody hell, I sleep for 14 hours, and come back to many pages.....

Anyway, I could go for a Delta lynch today (though this is my thoughts from last night, not read today yet) but on glancing and SK shouting he is obv town......

Obv town would not need to keep telling people they are obv town, and SK is not Obv town.

[Malakittens]

Also, egg, I'm with you on lynching in the Trojan wagon; let's lynch Delta now.

Boon why are you trying to work with your second scumread...?

[jasonT1981]

I'd actually like to follow that up, Mala, and ask if Boon thinks there is bussing involved in this?

[Malakittens]

nexus

:
Can we get a prod on Vyse? I'm aware it's only been 24 hours and change since D2 opened, but he's posting elsewhere on site.

[Boonskiies]

Also, egg, I'm with you on lynching in the Trojan wagon; let's lynch Delta now.

Boon why are you trying to work with your second scumread...?

I'm being obnoxious. Plus, if I get one of the people I want lynched done, by all means. Also, to see what he feels of that, as it fits what he wanted. But mainly, I'm being obnoxious.

[Egg]

Boon, just because you've bussed before doesn't mean you're town every time scum gets lynched and you aren't on the wagon.

Mala, I wasn't asking you to explain. I got that you were against it. I'm just saying if you were so sure Trojan was town and Boon was an option, you being against it stands out especially when you are saying Trojan was the only choice. I mean it's true to an extent. A Boon lynch wasn't happening. But they way youcame in all fuck no we aren't doing this really stands out to me.

Boon, Delta is probably the least likely from the Trojan wagon to flip scum. (Actually, a double check shows me Jason was on the wagon so second least likely)