Mini 750 - Idyllic Mafia (Halted)


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Post Post #125 (ISO) » Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:42 am

Post by freeko »

Which is exactly why I said the information could be completely invalid. I was assuming, and you were assuming.
No, im pretty sure you are the only one assuming.
You still had no right to want her out of the game with your own lack of significant posts earlier.
She could have chosen to shape up instead of ship out. Thereby she would have had to actually play the game at some point. It was clear she was not interested in doing so by her posts up to that point.
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Post Post #126 (ISO) » Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:23 pm

Post by Nuwen »

Mizz's wagon:

L-6: MissRin - RVS
L-5: Nuwen - Policy/blind pressure vote
L-4: Dean Harper - Stated pressure vote
L-3: Shanba - <3WAGONS
L-2: freeko - Stated pressure / " Idont like quantifying a vote for someoen who I dont think is scum"
L-1: Slicey - "giving up"

Master Ruck -> the claim request.
Artem -> The wall in front of the wagon.
MissRin -> First to ditch the wagon

1. Rin's hop off the wagon is understandable and expected, since her vote was placed in RVS and she was not pushing for a lynch.

2. Twin votes from Dean Harper and freeko to "add pressure" and "vote [for] someone who at the least will not help the town scumhunt." Hey freeko, would you have been satisfied if Mizz had been quicklynched on page 3? Do you think that because she was useless, there was no further information to get out of today? Or do you believe that she was so actively detrimental that her death was worth a quick end to day 1?

3. Ruck's claim request isn't inherently suspicious unless he's directly connected to someone pushing Rin's wagon.
Artem wrote: This statement comes up in many games but it's not true. I will flat out admit that I'm pressure-voting freeko right now, but I still expect him to address his poor reasons for a L-2 vote.
You can do all the expecting that your heart desires - but what will eventually get a player to respond in that situation is more posting attention, especially from other players. Your vote is akin to a FOS in value.

Metaing freeko, I'm inclined to believe that he's always belligerent.
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Post Post #127 (ISO) » Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:48 pm

Post by Dean Harper »

Nuwen wrote:Metaing freeko, I'm inclined to believe that he's always belligerent.
good to know.
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Post Post #128 (ISO) » Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:17 am

Post by Corvuus »

Mod: please replace Seamus, he hasn't posted for over a week.


MissRin: Mizz.Mafia got replaced, do you have comments on the game now?
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Post Post #129 (ISO) » Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:08 am

Post by Master Ruck »

I do not like that vote Shanba made on Mizz. It looks like he did it just because all the cool kids were doing it and gives no reason at all for it. At least other people said their vote was for pressure or just to get rid of an unhelpful user. If he can, I'd like to see him explain that vote.
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Post Post #130 (ISO) » Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:03 am

Post by Shanba »

Master Ruck wrote:I do not like that vote Shanba made on Mizz. It looks like he did it just because all the cool kids were doing it and gives no reason at all for it.
That's pretty much it, you know. Bandwagons, especially early game, are awesome.
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Post Post #131 (ISO) » Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:20 am

Post by Master Ruck »

Bandwagons are good because they give information on who is wagoned and all those who participated. You just hopped on because it was a wagon that was there and served only to push it along without giving anything more. That, to me, is a scum-tell.
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Post Post #132 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:10 am

Post by Shanba »

Master Ruck wrote:Bandwagons are good because they give information on who is wagoned and all those who participated. You just hopped on because it was a wagon that was there and served only to push it along without giving anything more. That, to me, is a scum-tell.
It's also interesting from the reactions of those who aren't on the wagon, too (for example, if a couple of people start acting all worried about it and the wagoned person eventually turns up scum, you have a good place to start looking.

But that's all irrelevant, because you're reading far too much into it. Not every post of mine is supposed to scream to everyone how town I am, sometimes I just like to fuck around. Or in other words - I simply do not believe that occasionally posting uninformative posts is a bad thing. Sure, if it becomes a habit, that's active lurking, but one swallow does not make a summer. You weren't going to get any extra info from me
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making that post.
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Post Post #133 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:05 am

Post by Master Ruck »

I should take that as some kind of meta on you, then? Can anyone else here confirm if Shanba is like this? You're right, though, to say this is nothing to use in a case to say you are scum, but I still don't like it as you made it possible, or at least look possible, for any other scum to jump on and make an early quick lynch.
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Post Post #134 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:54 am

Post by Shanba »

Master Ruck wrote:I should take that as some kind of meta on you, then? Can anyone else here confirm if Shanba is like this? You're right, though, to say this is nothing to use in a case to say you are scum, but I still don't like it as you made it possible, or at least look possible, for any other scum to jump on and make an early quick lynch.
This is not meta. This is common sense.

For all the fear about a quicklynch, how much do you really think a quicklynch would have hurt town? Certainly, it wouldn't be a disaster. Worst case scenario for town would be if a townie hammered, and frankly, I have enough confidence that that won't happen that I'm quite happy to put anyone at l-1 at any time. Any vote can be withdrawn, remember, except the hammer itself.

Quicklynches happen, but even when they do, they don't hurt town that much.
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Post Post #135 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:21 am

Post by Master Ruck »

That, and it still being early in the game the damage is minimal, I suppose. I will always prefer a reasoned lynch instead of a quick or policy lynch, though.
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Post Post #136 (ISO) » Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:06 pm

Post by Artem »

freeko wrote: She could have chosen to shape up instead of ship out. Thereby she would have had to actually play the game at some point. It was clear she was not interested in doing so by her posts up to that point.
Because a newbie is supposed to instantly learn how to play better from a "shape up or ship out" phrase.
M R wrote: Bandwagons are good because they give information on who is wagoned and all those who participated. You just hopped on because it was a wagon that was there and served only to push it along without giving anything more. That, to me, is a scum-tell.
Asking for a claim for no good reason is a scum-tell also, and if Shanba hadn't started the wagon, you wouldn't have dropped it.

I'm still content with my vote on freeko. I don't buy his change of hearts at L-1, especially since he's still adamantly defending his vote.
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Post Post #137 (ISO) » Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:24 am

Post by freeko »

Yay worksux. I have to go on another work realated V/LA until the end of the week. Conditions shoud improve over the next week, but I cannot be sure of this anymore. I assumed that some normality would have been restored this week, and that was not the case. I will try to play, but I cannot guarantee anything right now due to current work situations.
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Post Post #138 (ISO) » Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:23 am

Post by Corvuus »

unvote, vote MissRin


Nuwen posted, Seamus should be replaced, so voting MissRin to get response/activity/comment.

-----

For Shanba: I don't like your reasoning that a 'quicklynch' wouldn't have been bad since it leaves out the possibility of them being a power role which definitely would have been a 'much worse' worst case scenario. The rest of your post is just wifom/mindgame since you, as scum or town, would probably do that.

Freeko: Do you think what you wanted (Mizz.Mafia to 'shape up or ship out') could have been accomplished without voting her to L-1? (i.e. 4 votes and town's scrutiny be enough?) and what do you think about asking Mizz to claim at L-1, etc.

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Post Post #139 (ISO) » Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:42 am

Post by Shanba »

For Shanba: I don't like your reasoning that a 'quicklynch' wouldn't have been bad since it leaves out the possibility of them being a power role which definitely would have been a 'much worse' worst case scenario.
Personally, I feel town puts too much stock in power roles anyway, but your point is taken. Not also, though, that her being a power role is about as likely as her being scum, which is much better than the worst case scenario.
The rest of your post is just wifom/mindgame since you, as scum or town, would probably do that.
Uh, yeah. I was arguing that it was a nulltell, not that it was a towntell.

Corvuus: who is the scummiest player in the game?

Vote: Dean Harper
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Post Post #140 (ISO) » Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:33 am

Post by Corvuus »

Personally, I don't really like any of the answers given by the 'wagoners'. However, it ends up being a null-tell or anti-town/not necessarily scummy for the most part.

For Dean: I don't like his response, reasoning, asking for claim at L-1.
For you (Shanba) and Freeko: I am so-so with your answers but it doesn't strike me as townie but time will tell. In terms of meta, I think you both do believe in wagoning for information and such, but... well I am watching and reading. Sidenote: you said 'worst case' and what I said is the worst case. The best case would have been that she was actually scum since then at least it wouldn't be a mislynch even if we got marginal information out of it.

Asking for the claim at L-1 is probably the scummiest thing out there; but Dean is posting and could get a response/read on him eventually so I didn't see a need to exert more pressure on him.

My voting and attention on 'inactive/lurkers' is because it is 'possible' that you are town (highly unlikely that you are all scum) and that if we are 'polarized' into "let's scrutinize the bandwagoners" (who I think will have some suspicion on them the whole game) then scum can potentially just drift/lurk by. At the very least, if there is scum on the wagon and scum not on the wagon, then getting a response or comment is worth it.

Corvuus
P.S. if you want me to say a specific person; Dean Harper. I think just saying it is enough to get a reaction out of him and I will continue to vote inactive/lurkers.
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Post Post #141 (ISO) » Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:39 pm

Post by freeko »

Corvuus wrote: Freeko: Do you think what you wanted (Mizz.Mafia to 'shape up or ship out') could have been accomplished without voting her to L-1? (i.e. 4 votes and town's scrutiny be enough?) and what do you think about asking Mizz to claim at L-1, etc.
I consider my vote on mizzmafia to have been made in the same vein of your votes to make people "wake-up", much like your latest vote on missrin I believe it is. I will admit that I was lazy in making that vote, and was shocked it ballooned like that into an L-1 so quickly. For what it is worth I had full well intended to unvote when mizzmafia did something relevant within the game that didnt scream out obvscum. If she did something that was deserving of keeping my vote there, then it would have stayed.

I am not so sure what to make from the claim attempt at L-1. Under general circumstances it seems fairly standard around L-1 or L-2 that people end up claiming. I dont really know if it is forced by the voters or if it is a defense used by the person being voted to get people to remove their votes. Chalk that to general inexperience.
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Post Post #142 (ISO) » Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:36 pm

Post by Dean Harper »

Corvuus wrote:Personally, I don't really like any of the answers given by the 'wagoners'. However, it ends up being a null-tell or anti-town/not necessarily scummy for the most part.

For Dean: I don't like his response, reasoning, asking for claim at L-1.

Asking for the claim at L-1 is probably the scummiest thing out there; but Dean is posting and could get a response/read on him eventually so I didn't see a need to exert more pressure on him.

My voting and attention on 'inactive/lurkers' is because it is 'possible' that you are town (highly unlikely that you are all scum) and that if we are 'polarized' into "let's scrutinize the bandwagoners" (who I think will have some suspicion on them the whole game) then scum can potentially just drift/lurk by. At the very least, if there is scum on the wagon and scum not on the wagon, then getting a response or comment is worth it.
First, when did I EVER say I wanted MissRin to claim? What don't you like about my reasoning for voting for her? I assume you are talking about my response to freeko, which I can understand that you don't like.

So you are basically saying something completely obvious, but making it very difficult to read? (3rd paragraph of quote) Here is my translation of Paragraph 3:

My voting and attention on lurkers stems from the fact that it is possible that they are town, and it is highly unlikely for you to all be scum. I don't want people to focus just on wagoners however, because we could let scum that weren't on the wagon just drift by. At the very least, getting a response or comment is worth it.


I assume you are speaking about me, Shanba, and freeko in the last sentence? Why not refer to the other wagon members as well? Just because you question all of the wagon members doesn't mean you are ignoring the people who weren't on the wagon.
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Post Post #143 (ISO) » Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:39 pm

Post by Dean Harper »

freeko wrote:
Corvuus wrote: Freeko: Do you think what you wanted (Mizz.Mafia to 'shape up or ship out') could have been accomplished without voting her to L-1? (i.e. 4 votes and town's scrutiny be enough?) and what do you think about asking Mizz to claim at L-1, etc.
I consider my vote on mizzmafia to have been made in the same vein of your votes to make people "wake-up", much like your latest vote on missrin I believe it is.
I will admit that I was lazy in making that vote, and was shocked it ballooned like that into an L-1 so quickly. For what it is worth I had full well intended to unvote when mizzmafia did something relevant within the game that didnt scream out obvscum. If she did something that was deserving of keeping my vote there, then it would have stayed.


I am not so sure what to make from the claim attempt at L-1. Under general circumstances it seems fairly standard around L-1 or L-2 that people end up claiming. I dont really know if it is forced by the voters or if it is a defense used by the person being voted to get people to remove their votes. Chalk that to general inexperience.
The bolded part totally jumps out at me as contradicting what you said earlier, about your Mizz vote being for a specific reason.

Also, again, I in no way asked for Mizz to claim.
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Post Post #144 (ISO) » Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:41 pm

Post by Dean Harper »

Master Ruck wrote:Mizz, claim. Even if you are going to keep being whiney and unhelpful, we don't want to lynch a town power role D1 for that and end up screwing the game over because of it.
For all those confused about who exactly suggested claiming, it was MR.
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Post Post #145 (ISO) » Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:42 pm

Post by Dean Harper »

*Quadruple Post** Sorry :)...


I would appreciate it if people would proofread their posts. Having to decipher what people are trying to say is in no way helpful in an online environment.
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Post Post #146 (ISO) » Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:01 am

Post by Corvuus »

zzzz, no one posts, and for some reason I remembered Dean's name doing what MR did.

so misquote.

either way, I don't like you posting for others earlier and other than misquoting the name, I don't see why you think what I said is confusing or difficult to read at all. Do you really need to translate and your translation is also failure since you add/change what I said. At no point did I ever say 'ignore' the wagoners/non-wagoners. The 'wagoners' aren't going anywhere so we can either pressure all of you at once or each one of you individual, either way, it is simply a matter of time and people are being lurky/inactive about it.

but oh well. My stance/view of the game hasn't changed.
So edit update: #1:Master Ruck for the claim. #2:Dean Harper for being Dean Harper.

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Post Post #147 (ISO) » Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:49 am

Post by Dean Harper »

Corvuus wrote:zzzz, no one posts, and for some reason I remembered Dean's name doing what MR did.

so misquote.

either way, I don't like you posting for others earlier and other than misquoting the name, I don't see why you think what I said is confusing or difficult to read at all. Do you really need to translate and your translation is also failure since you add/change what I said. At no point did I ever say 'ignore' the wagoners/non-wagoners. The 'wagoners' aren't going anywhere so we can either pressure all of you at once or each one of you individual, either way, it is simply a matter of time and people are being lurky/inactive about it.

but oh well. My stance/view of the game hasn't changed.
So edit update: #1:Master Ruck for the claim. #2:Dean Harper for being Dean Harper.

C
This quote states exactly WHY I needed it translated. Obviously I didn't understand. I never said you were ignoring the "wagoners." All I said was that you wouldn't be ignoring the people not on the wagon if you targeted everyone on the wagon with questions.

I agree about the inactive part, as a lot of people are not even present to post.

I appreciate clear and concise posting. I know what you were saying now, but at the time, your jumbled use of parenthesis and overall poor sentence structure caused confusion on my end. I would just appreciate it if everyone proofread their posts before actually posting them to see if they make sense. I don't want you to change what you have to say, I just want you to please make it clear what you are saying.
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Post Post #148 (ISO) » Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:51 am

Post by Dean Harper »

confirm vote: freeko
for my above quote of him in post 143, and his going along with corvuus' error on the L-1 thing about me without even checking.
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Post Post #149 (ISO) » Wed Mar 11, 2009 2:17 pm

Post by Corvuus »

You can search/read any of my other games and I am like this in all of them. but hey, maybe I can keep my motivation up in this game by challenging myself to fake a PR where I only post concise short statements and I risk being mod killed if I say anything over 100 words/circular logic. Most likely I'll fail miserably.

--------------------

Mod: Replacement Slicey and Seamus. Prod/replacement on Mizz?


Shanba: Why the vote on Dean Harper?

C
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