Mini 116: Trigger Mafia Concluded


Forum rules
User avatar
Candice
Candice
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Candice
Goon
Goon
Posts: 876
Joined: February 15, 2004
Location: My own little world

Post Post #125 (ISO) » Wed Jun 23, 2004 4:08 pm

Post by Candice »

Double-posting to say that I don't think this necessarily clears Jaguar. This link could be (and in my mind probably is) a fluke. I mention it, however, because the question was if there was a link between leprechaun and anything in Willow's post, and there is.
"Don't let go; never give up, it's such a wonderful life..."
User avatar
Otaku376
Otaku376
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Otaku376
Goon
Goon
Posts: 455
Joined: December 16, 2003
Location: Who knew the East Coast had "weather"? brr...

Post Post #126 (ISO) » Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:03 pm

Post by Otaku376 »

That is a very large leap of faith, and I don't know if I could even consider it a possibility. There has to be a less obscure link than that to be true.
I just don't really like the fact that 1) Totem's trigger was blatently obvious and that both Jaguar's and WW's triggers would be near undecipherable.
I'd really like to hear more from Tam, Uraj, and BlueSin because at this point I think the most information would be gained from an eventual lynch of jaguar but do not want to rush anything. Especially in a game format where posts are the major way to find scum.
And to MeMe, because I think participation is very important I think there are several ways for you to easily work around posting a trigger word. Like only reusing words and not introducing a new word into the game. Or something. I'm a little sleepy.
User avatar
Jaguar
Jaguar
The real dogmatix
User avatar
User avatar
Jaguar
The real dogmatix
The real dogmatix
Posts: 887
Joined: January 23, 2004
Location: First the Netherlands, now Canada

Post Post #127 (ISO) » Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:51 am

Post by Jaguar »

See, I am thinking that Tigris just threw the Leprechaun bit in there because Willows was also targeted by scum and since Tigris did blatantly say that I don't know my sanity it was to signal that she did get my PM for investigation and that she couldn't give me a result as Willows was dead. I never thought about Willows having hit a trigger that would have turned her into a Leprechaun because the obvious triggers for a leprechaun weren't mentioned in her posts.

And Shady says there wasn't much pressure? At the time I claimed, I had four votes on me with more willing to vote me. I think that was plenty of pressure. People weren't going to unvote me based on my other posts and others were planning to vote for me. But at least this way, if you are still lynching me, you know who you lynched and what you are losing.

Yes, there certainly were better targets to investigate, but I thought with MeMe in the game, if she wasn't scum she might end up dead in the morning, so I didn't want to lose an investigation. Little did I know that the person I chose instead would end up 6 feet under.

I wonder if there's a way for players to come back from the dead as it looks like I'm going to be the lynch target today :?
MeMe wrote:And Uraj -- we've had two players claim to have hit triggers so far -- one very bad (cop block) and one possibly good (investigative - but no way to tell if it's accurate as the result on willows in unconfirmed). I'd say that gambling that most triggers would work to our advantage is not the best bet that we could make. Since most games start with 3 or 4 scum and this one started with only 2 -- I'd wager that most triggers either strengthen scum or weaken town, otherwise this game's gonna be a tad unbalanced.
See I thought that the pro-town triggers would be something a bit more obscure than saying cop or doc. In addition, there likely are only so many triggers for decent pro-town roles and the rest I would assume are more for flavour, such as someone turning into a doughnut or something silly like that. So rather than giving the claimed cop a bit of leeway, you are lynching the only person (as far as we know) that may be able to shed some light on people. Very anti-town. In any game I've been in, you leave the claimed doc or cop alone at least for one or two days unless someone else claims to have that role.

It is also possible that Tigris built in something that will prevent the town from becoming too powerful, ie. a role could have a stipulation that says if there is another cop out there, this person would only be a back-up cop or the cop role wouldn't be activated.

vote: MeMe
I need a new tagline...
BlueSin
BlueSin
Unique
BlueSin
Unique
Unique
Posts: 677
Joined: December 29, 2003
Location: Zion
Contact:

Post Post #128 (ISO) » Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:26 am

Post by BlueSin »

mind to explain the reason you voted meme, jaguar?

I think totem is suspicious because of the direct relation between the trigger word dougnut and the role he get. Jaguar and WW both activate the trigger that is harder to guess.

but it could happened though. it's hard to create 80 words that is hard to guess.
Why people always find me suspicous?
User avatar
Tigris
Tigris
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Tigris
Goon
Goon
Posts: 689
Joined: December 14, 2002

Post Post #129 (ISO) » Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:19 am

Post by Tigris »

The newly compiled and possibly even accurate vote count.
Vote Count

Shady (2): Totem, Bluesin
Jaguar (3): MeMe, Tam, shady
MeMe (1): Jaguar

not voting:Candice, yaw, Uraj, otaku, nard

Oh and I should announce that I'm off to a wedding tomorrow ^_^, it's in state this time, so it shouldn't affect anything, but just in case.
User avatar
MeMe
MeMe
Post or Perish
User avatar
User avatar
MeMe
Post or Perish
Post or Perish
Posts: 10710
Joined: October 6, 2002
Location: Missouri
Contact:

Post Post #130 (ISO) » Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:32 am

Post by MeMe »

BlueSin wrote:mind to explain the reason you voted meme, jaguar?
Er - I thought she did a fine job of explaining herself. I'm voting the only claimed investigative role.
Otaku376 wrote:And to MeMe, because I think participation is very important I think there are several ways for you to easily work around posting a trigger word.
Thanks, but I'm not actively
not
participating and I don't know how some of you have gotten it into your heads that's the case. I'm just not interested in "posting to post" or to keep the game rolling (which
is
my usual play style). When I've had something to say, I've done so. In this game, however, I see reason to keep the posts concise and necessary (I'm unconvinced by the "triggers are probably mostly good" line of thinking).

unvote: Jaguar
because you're right. Though your early behavior and the fact that we know some triggers (and, I'm assuming, even investigative ones) can be attained by either alignment keeps you at the top of my suspects list, I'll lay off you for now and see what you can tell us tomorrow.

vote: Otaku376
Next best guess -- excuses in several of his posts and often reiterating others' points. Maybe weak, may be something.
Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza
User avatar
nard054
nard054
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
nard054
Goon
Goon
Posts: 177
Joined: December 7, 2003
Location: Pittsburgh

Post Post #131 (ISO) » Thu Jun 24, 2004 6:09 am

Post by nard054 »

I wouldn't like to lose an investigative role day one, so I won't be voting Jaguar after all.

Instead, I'm going to
vote: Totem
. The other triggers were obscure and no one was sure what word had triggered it. But he was sure...and from what I've heard of the role it wouldn't be obvious that the word donut triggered it. It just seems kind of odd to me.
User avatar
Otaku376
Otaku376
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Otaku376
Goon
Goon
Posts: 455
Joined: December 16, 2003
Location: Who knew the East Coast had "weather"? brr...

Post Post #132 (ISO) » Thu Jun 24, 2004 9:12 am

Post by Otaku376 »

I think if anyone were telling the truth about hitting a trigger it would be Totem. His warning of the doughnut trigger seems protown. I would not imagine scum would try to draw attention so early like that. It is fair odds that some of the trigger words are obvious versus obscure since we don't really know if either or both of the trigger claims are lying.
MeMe, I understand you are worried about hitting a bad trigger, and perhaps I blew it out of proportion a bit. Why sign up for a game that actively hinders your usual play style and is designed around a mechanic you are intentionally avoiding though? And I'm sorry if you think a lot of my posts are excuses and reiterations of others' points but (look another excuse!) I have had to play catch up early on in the game and reiterating can shed new light on things. I helped clear something up for BlueSin a while ago.
User avatar
MeMe
MeMe
Post or Perish
User avatar
User avatar
MeMe
Post or Perish
Post or Perish
Posts: 10710
Joined: October 6, 2002
Location: Missouri
Contact:

Post Post #133 (ISO) » Thu Jun 24, 2004 9:34 am

Post by MeMe »

Otaku - why
not
sign up for a game for which I think the optimal play is different than my normal style? If someone's more tied to a playstyle than to winning, well...that person's an idiot. Seems a ridiculous question, to me.
Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza
User avatar
MeMe
MeMe
Post or Perish
User avatar
User avatar
MeMe
Post or Perish
Post or Perish
Posts: 10710
Joined: October 6, 2002
Location: Missouri
Contact:

Post Post #134 (ISO) » Thu Jun 24, 2004 10:21 am

Post by MeMe »

Sorry for the double, but I kept thinking about it after I signed off & I do want to ask Otaku: what's the purpose of this line of conversation with me? Your second-to-last post contained suggestions on how I can participate while avoiding triggers and your last contained, basically, a remonstration for signing up when I don't want to play it like you want me to.

If you think it's scummy for me to want to avoid a trigger, vote me for saying so. But it's starting to look to me as though you're enjoying a "MeMe's doing it wrong" tangent that keeps focus off the business of finding scum. My "maybe weak" vote on you is starting to feel a bit more solid.
Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza
User avatar
Otaku376
Otaku376
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Otaku376
Goon
Goon
Posts: 455
Joined: December 16, 2003
Location: Who knew the East Coast had "weather"? brr...

Post Post #135 (ISO) » Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:04 pm

Post by Otaku376 »

I thought about why I was playing in this, when I opted out of Marvel Super Heroes. I thought these games mechanics would be more interesting and fun. I just find it weird you signed up for this game and would go and try to avoid the mechanics. It's like going to Magic Mountain and being afraid of the roller coasters. You are playing different, which you have admitted to. That could be seen as suspicious, and I was exploring it. I do not think I am keeping the focus off of finding scum.
I am not voting you because I am exploring this and am not confident in it. The fact that you are cautious about hitting a trigger seems more protown than scum to me right now. So it's mixed feelings.
User avatar
Tam
Tam
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Tam
Goon
Goon
Posts: 383
Joined: December 14, 2003
Location: USA
Contact:

Post Post #136 (ISO) » Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:16 pm

Post by Tam »

Well, bah, I'm really unsure now. A few good points have been brought up about Jaguar, and combined with her last post, I find my suspicions fading a bit.

Unvote Jaguar


Not sure what to think about the Meme thing currently though. I thought it a bit odd, just like Meme said, at first, but Otaku's last post actually seems very reasonable, so...I dunno... :?
Tam
[url=http://maddox.xmission.com/tictacs.html]Bush or Tictacs?[/url]
User avatar
MeMe
MeMe
Post or Perish
User avatar
User avatar
MeMe
Post or Perish
Post or Perish
Posts: 10710
Joined: October 6, 2002
Location: Missouri
Contact:

Post Post #137 (ISO) » Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:59 pm

Post by MeMe »

Otaku & Tam...I'll just repost what I said earlier.
MeMe wrote:Think about it -- would I deliberately go against what is normal play for me if I were scum? It's just so easy for people to point and say "MeMe's acting different!" and I know that. If I were scum, I'd do everything I could to be typical, non-suspicious Me.
Know this: I didn't sign up for the game with the attitude of "hey! I'll just not post!" But once I saw Totem's claim I thought it best, for me, to clam up unless speaking was necessary. I'm one of the most investigated/protected/targeted players on this board. If I tripped a trigger like Totem's, I'd have a high chance of hurting the town. That said, you'll notice that I've recently abandoned the hope of posting less (even though it is a damn fine idea for me in this particular game) because MeMe will, apparently, never be allowed to do so, regardless of how sound the reason.
Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza
BlueSin
BlueSin
Unique
BlueSin
Unique
Unique
Posts: 677
Joined: December 29, 2003
Location: Zion
Contact:

Post Post #138 (ISO) » Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:20 am

Post by BlueSin »

meme,
strangely, you play differently in both this and the mini 115 if i'm not mistaken. I'm not saying that shows you are not the former meme, just point it our so that others know about it. I tend to believe meme for now, she can't be a mafia in both game and then play differently to attract attention. That's called ridiculous!

unvote shady vote nard

I really don't find the donut claim suspicous. Although it is differ from the other two trigger words, who said it is not possible to have obvious trigger words in the 80 word list. totem had explain that he doesn't know for sure the donut is the trigger, just guessing based on the role he get.
Why people always find me suspicous?
User avatar
nard054
nard054
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
nard054
Goon
Goon
Posts: 177
Joined: December 7, 2003
Location: Pittsburgh

Post Post #139 (ISO) » Fri Jun 25, 2004 3:03 am

Post by nard054 »

If he did say that he didn't know that donut was the trigger, than that will make more sense to me, but I can't find it (after just skimming through his posts).

But, he said he was turned into a donut...so I guess that 99% of people would assume that that trigger came from the word donut. I'm still kinda iffy about him though.
BlueSin
BlueSin
Unique
BlueSin
Unique
Unique
Posts: 677
Joined: December 29, 2003
Location: Zion
Contact:

Post Post #140 (ISO) » Fri Jun 25, 2004 3:17 am

Post by BlueSin »

he don't know for sure. mod doesn't reveal the trigger activate at the pm according to 3 of the 'lucky' players. But i remember totem said he guess donut is the trigger due to he can a role that has something to do with donut.
totem posted in post 112 wrote: And you are right. PM telling me that I hit a trigger and asking if I want to activate it did not contain the trigger word. I only knew after i saw an effect.
totem posted in post 59 wrote:Ok, so now I can say I turned into donut.(hehe) From what I understand it will be highly unhealthy for cop to investigate me.
it is possible a scum trick to void cop investigation. he stated that he get a role called donut which is evil in cop eyes. but he don't need to claim this so early if he is scum.
Why people always find me suspicous?
User avatar
Yaw
Yaw
Yawesome
User avatar
User avatar
Yaw
Yawesome
Yawesome
Posts: 3171
Joined: February 9, 2004
Location: Nairobi, Kenya

Post Post #141 (ISO) » Fri Jun 25, 2004 8:33 am

Post by Yaw »

Actually, MeMe's explained her not posting thing to my satisfaction. Now that I understand she's cutting back on the "posting just to post" posts instead of the ones with scum-finding content, I can't say I have a problem with that. It's more that I expected a post in response to Jaguar's claim and was surprised not to see one, though now I see that she was making her point through silence.

I also agree with BlueSin's logic -- I see no reason for Totem to claim donutness as scum (in fact, if he were scum I think he'd be more likely
not
to claim, and let a cop get burned trying to investigate him), and Jaguar's is clearly the stranger claim because of the whole "leprechaun" bit. Going after Totem well after that whole issue was discussed is reason enough for me to add some pressure.
Vote: nard054
Success breeds suspicion
User avatar
Jaguar
Jaguar
The real dogmatix
User avatar
User avatar
Jaguar
The real dogmatix
The real dogmatix
Posts: 887
Joined: January 23, 2004
Location: First the Netherlands, now Canada

Post Post #142 (ISO) » Fri Jun 25, 2004 11:51 am

Post by Jaguar »

Just a quick note to say I'll have limited access over the weekend. Absolutely stupidly busy as usual.
I need a new tagline...
User avatar
Candice
Candice
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Candice
Goon
Goon
Posts: 876
Joined: February 15, 2004
Location: My own little world

Post Post #143 (ISO) » Fri Jun 25, 2004 4:07 pm

Post by Candice »

I'll have to agree that rehashing the Totem thing isn't going to go anywhere- in fact, in my opinion, Totem's claim was the most reasonable of them all. If ANYTHING, Jaguar holds a world more of suspicion in my eyes, since Willow's death scene didn't mention anything Leprechaun. Totem's FIRST day-one post was to warn about his trigger, and while that creates a suspicious situation with an unconfirmable claim, and then to invite a lynch, rather than risk the cop, tells me his claim was pro-town. This situation has all been gone over. I really fail to see the point in going back to it, Nard.

I'm willing to vote for Nard at this moment but I want to hear from him again before I do.
"Don't let go; never give up, it's such a wonderful life..."
User avatar
nard054
nard054
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
nard054
Goon
Goon
Posts: 177
Joined: December 7, 2003
Location: Pittsburgh

Post Post #144 (ISO) » Sat Jun 26, 2004 4:18 am

Post by nard054 »

I think you've all twisted my opinion. My point was just to point out that Totem was the only person to know what his trigger word was. Jaguar didn't, Willows didn't, and I don't. I also tripped up a trigger last night. I won't reveal the specifics yet.

And actually, while writing the next part of this post explaining that the donut role was not believable, I kind of thought of ways it could hurt the town, making it much more believable to me. (If you want me to post these ways than I can...but I thought they were kind of obvious when you started to think about it.) So
unvote: totem
. It was just an idea...but apparently all of you seem to be in love with him or something.

Now to move on to a completely unrelated subject. We keep saying that we should believe Totem because scum wouldn't claim for no reason on day 1. So I was thinking that would be the perfect oppurtunity for scum to claim and seem more believable. I'm talking, of course, about Jaguar. I think she's caused more than enough suspicion for a lynch. So I'll put my vote back on her.
vote: Jaguar
User avatar
Tam
Tam
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Tam
Goon
Goon
Posts: 383
Joined: December 14, 2003
Location: USA
Contact:

Post Post #145 (ISO) » Sat Jun 26, 2004 5:09 am

Post by Tam »

OK, I'm having connection problems this weekend apparently, but nothing big yet...Arrrgh! Candice, I think I tend to agree with you about Nard054. I don't really see why he should have brought all of that up again and I'm not sure I totally accept his reasoning in his last post.

I read the vote count as: (totally and completely non-official and possibly wrong)

shady (1) totem
jaguar (2) shady, nard
meme (1) jaguar
otaku (1) meme
nard054 (2) bluesin,yaw

I'm kinda suspicious of Nard054 mostly at this point, I think. It seems to be all about shifting suspicion elsewhere...repeatedly. I don't think it helps us much to go over stuff again when we have new stuff to talk about.

I dunno, though. That is pretty weak. :( Not voting quite yet, I suppose. Probably will to help put on pressure if need be.
Tam
[url=http://maddox.xmission.com/tictacs.html]Bush or Tictacs?[/url]
User avatar
Otaku376
Otaku376
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Otaku376
Goon
Goon
Posts: 455
Joined: December 16, 2003
Location: Who knew the East Coast had "weather"? brr...

Post Post #146 (ISO) » Sat Jun 26, 2004 7:09 am

Post by Otaku376 »

Totem wrote: And you are right. PM telling me that I hit a trigger and asking if I want to activate it did not contain the trigger word. I only knew after i saw an effect.
There are some small hints in Jaguar messages that sugest that she indead hit the same kind of trigger I did> Something in the wording.
Still Jaguar acts strangely.
Post 112, Totem says he didn't know what his word was, he is just assuming based on the consequences.
We don't even know if Willow hit a trigger, our only source on that is one person's claim who was under pressure when she said it, as support to her own claim
nard054 wrote:I wouldn't like to lose an investigative role day one, so I won't be voting Jaguar after all.
What happened here? I thought you believed her. Now:
nard054 wrote: So I was thinking that would be the perfect oppurtunity for scum to claim and seem more believable. I'm talking, of course, about Jaguar. I think she's caused more than enough suspicion for a lynch. So I'll put my vote back on her
Her only post in between then was a post about her limited access.
vote: nard054
User avatar
nard054
nard054
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
nard054
Goon
Goon
Posts: 177
Joined: December 7, 2003
Location: Pittsburgh

Post Post #147 (ISO) » Sat Jun 26, 2004 8:11 am

Post by nard054 »

I'm gonna claim right now. I have 3 votes on me and one threatening to. And I'm sure that if the scum aren't voting yet, they will once they see all of the other votes on me. Anyway, my trigger said that I found a gun that was mine during childhood, but I have no idea what it will do. (my role actually states that I don't know what the gun will do.) But it is used
against
mafia. It's pretty much a vigilante role.

I will try to prove my innocence tonight (if I last that long)...but I have no idea what will happen when I use this mystery gun.
User avatar
Yaw
Yaw
Yawesome
User avatar
User avatar
Yaw
Yawesome
Yawesome
Posts: 3171
Joined: February 9, 2004
Location: Nairobi, Kenya

Post Post #148 (ISO) » Sat Jun 26, 2004 8:54 am

Post by Yaw »

So you pulled a vigilante trigger, hm?

Was it in this post?
nard054 wrote:

It sounds as though we don't have to change if we don't want to...so I think it's rather "duh" for townies to never change to an evil role. Just thought I'd state the obvious because, well, we're allowed to talk Night 1 and, goshdurnit, I wanted to.

I can see why a townie would want to change. Sometimes games get kind of boring being a regular townie. But either way...this game will be successful in one of two things:
1. Being an awesome and exciting game to play, or
2. Being the funniest game ever played on this site.

Hopefully both.
Doesn't look like there's much of anything there to relate to a vigilante role. Perhaps this one?
nard054 wrote:Another (easier) question: What are the triggers? Words, phrases, whole sentences, all of the preceding, or something else?
That's even worse for content. Hell,
I
posted more unique stuff in my lone post during the night than you did, and I triggered absolutely nothing. If anything I'm more happy with my vote now than I was when I originally voted. I see nothing to suggest you hit any vigilante triggers at all, and I'm very wary of someone who is telling us flat out that he's going to kill tonight.
Success breeds suspicion
User avatar
nard054
nard054
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
nard054
Goon
Goon
Posts: 177
Joined: December 7, 2003
Location: Pittsburgh

Post Post #149 (ISO) » Sat Jun 26, 2004 9:59 am

Post by nard054 »

I'm willing to, if to prove my innocence.

I was surprised as well when I saw that I hit the trigger. But, as I've said earlier, I couldn't find the word that triggered it. And if Jaguar is telling the truth, we can't find her word and we can't find Willow's word. So if the confirmation of your vote is simply that you can't find the word that triggered my role, I think you're searching pretty deep for reasons to suspect me.
Locked