Legacy of the Ancients Mafia (That's All, Folks!)

[DragonsofSummer]

Ebwop: /pre-in for MS4

[Maemuki]

/pre-in for MS4

[Tarhalindur]

Mod Notes

Play:

Town (Ancients/Ascendant):

Town played fairly well here, especially a few players. Two of the players with investigative roles (dramonic and especially Sajin) made very good day choices; the latter in particular was instrumental to the town victory, both with his D2 SocioPath track and D3 malthusis revive. On the other hand... most of the rest of the town didn't play particularly well, IMO (especially animorpherv1 and zwetschenwasser... well, and Mufasa, but he wasn't exactly in the game now was he?). The High Council took FAR too long to realize what the flip of a Mafia Redirector meant, and the town never really picked up on the fact that the graveyard was one of the major themes of this game (something that would have cost town the game had they figured it out any later).

Shadow Mafia:

The Mafia, on the other hand, played very, very poorly IMO, effectively sealing their own demise. The biggest problem for the Mafia was that its two most important members - SocioPath and DeathNote - played very poorly and wound up getting killed early, exposing them to a LOT of town power roles that those two players were designed as countermeasures to. (In particular, I consider having DeathNote use his Ultimate Day 1 to be the most stupid move the Mafia could possibly make in this setup.) To make matters worse, the one Mafioso who stayed mostly under the radar - Bogre - then promptly got nuked by a doubly-redirected Mafia kill! The only reason Mafia was in this at all was because Starbuck was fairly powerful and Town took a little too long to figure out that players might still be alive in the graveyard.

Serial Killer

- Xyl played fairly well (would have stood a decent shot without malthusis sending in a trigger for Ultimate use) - IMO, he had a good shot to win it all until malthusis got revived. I'm somewhat unsure about his choice to play completely like a dayvig (the second shot D3 might have gone well on dramonic or especially UncertainKitten instead of zwet).

Ironically, what Xyl did best was completely screw over the anti-town factions, both with the SocioPath kill (preventing Mafia from using its best tool a little longer D3 AND preventing Outsiders from getting on a SocioPath lynch) and the xRECKONERx kill (the biggest reason, bar none, that the Outsiders lost).

(Note to Xyl: I assigned a couple of roles specifically - I do reserve mod's prerogative for 2-3 roles in a large them - but IIRC you (unlike, say, zwetschenwasser) weren't one of them. The RNG just hates you.

I say IIRC because you *did* ask for daykills in the signup thread... if I did assign this to you specifically, that's why.)

Outsiders

- After review, the Outsiders were close to winning more because of circumstance (read: Starbuck randoming into the Godfather role) than outstanding play. They did well at getting lynches on Shadows, but Snow_Bunny didn't so much draw kills to her as she just soaked up kills originally headed for Starbuck. (I thought that best play for Outsiders was for Snow_Bunny to Ultimate Day 3, but I may have been wrong there.)

On the other hand, considering that the Outsiders got royally screwed over D1 (xRECKONERx dayvig and Slicey kill), it's a wonder they came as close as they did.

Hypnotists

- The one thing the Mafia *did* do in this game was remove the Hypnotists before the town would ever have to worry about them. If not for the DoS hammer D1 (or if DoS had used his super ability to revive, say, MafiaSSK D1) Hypnotists would actually have stood a decent shot here - Mafia targeting the hell out of the High Council would have worked in the Hypnotists' favor.

Flavor:

There aren't many references here. The flavor text for all vote counts and mod scenes was of my own creation (and the flavor was a pain to write towards the end - I delayed posting several vote counts due to difficulty thinking up appropriate flavor articles).

For those curious, the various bold and underlined (and eventually blue) links on the flavor text are because the Encyclopedia Universalis is, in fact, based on Wikipedia.

There are a few references, but they're all hiding in the race names. With the exception of the Hypnotists, all factions in the game are references (Ancients are a reference to the Stargate verse, Ascendant is a double reference to Stargate and Babylon 5, Outsiders are a reference to Larry Niven's Known Space, Shadows are a reference to Babylon 5, Forsaken are a reference to Warcraft III). There's also a few other references hidden in the race list at the beginning: Balifids and Minions come from the ancient (and rather infamous, courtesy of really bad AI) 4X game Ascendancy, Silicoids and Gasbags are Master of Orion references (the latter in particular referencing the again rather infamous MoOIII), the Other take their name from Girl Genius, and the Ancestors are yet another Stargate Atlantis shoutout.

Game Design:

This setup has been in the making for a LONG time (about three years - it predates my registration on MafiaScum) The original version of this setup was the first setup I ever designed (I never used the original, in no small part because I lost the exact design).

Several features of previous Tar games actually originate in this setup. Babylon 5's semi-town factions (Anti-Shadow/Anti-Vorlon) were based on the original version of the Outsiders in the proto-setup. Ryoko in Suzumiya Haruhi was based on the original version of the Hunter-Killer. The Whack A Mole ability in the various Mind Screw games was derived from the Day 0 info-lynch in the protosetup. Mind Screw Mafia 3 borrowed a LOT from this setup (it's closer to the original setup, in fact) - the Ultimate mechanic originated in the LotA proto-setup (in fact, it's the original version - the concept of Renumerations came later), the High Council mechanic in MS3 was basically the original version of the High Council here (though in that game I made the High Council less plot-important), the Tweedledee/Tweedledum roles were modified from the original Neighborhood Watch in the proto-setup, and several of the roles in Mind Screw 3 were all-but-reused in this setup.

Certain aspects were changed late - most I'll point out in the roles section, but the Outsiders gained their "don't talk about Outsiders" late (when Kinetic pointed out "won't they all just claim D1?").

There are a few flaws in the setup, IMO. It predates my Mind Screw 3 experience, and like that game it runs VERY close to the limit on the amount of complexity I can really keep together as a Mod (hell, I screwed up twice here - IIRC, I forgot to give the High Council their High Council PM... which told them that Day 0 was an infolynch day, oops; likewise, I nearly missed that dramonic died D3). In addition, it has about 1-2 too many confirmable townies (the Neighborhood Watch + 2 investigative roles, not to mention a few longshot roles); I actually noticed this problem about a day before I started the game and tried to fix it (hence why the Neighborhood Watch had a hamfisted attempt at deconfirmation), but since I noticed it so late I didn't really fix the problem before the game started.

Core themes: Ultimates, the graveyard (in many ways, this setup was BUILT around Requiem of the Oldest Order and the sheer numer of graveyard-targeting roles needed to give town a chance of figuring it out), redirecting roles. The High Council is the largest subtheme.

Note on Ultimates: The original Ultimates were designed as 1-shot abilities that became active on a certain day (drawn from Warcraft III Mafia 2 on MTGS, I believe). This was modified to "become active when meeting a certain condition" before Mind Screw 3 was designed, and would have remained the same if not for me noticing Amistarian Mafia on MTGS (whose burnout mechanic gave me the inspiration for Renumerations). The choice of term for the Ultimate cost is a reference (to Darker Than Black).

Note when looking at roles: Every nontown role has a 1-shot ability (either Super Ability or Ultimate, usually the former) that would make sense on a town player, to facilitate falseclaiming.

Specific roles:

The Intruder

- This is one of the MS3 legacy roles (directly analogous to Rei Ayanami in MS3). The original role in the protosetup was unnightkillable double-voting Mafia Godfather with a global redirect as an Ultimate; since this got used on Rei, I swapped the Ultimate for the Lain mechanic (player while in graveyard), removed the NK immunity, and nearly called it a day.

Then I realized, very late, how screwed this role was if forced to try to falseclaim and added Requiem of Time (remember, all the nontown roles have either a Super Ability or an Ultimate that imitates a town ability). Then I decided that the Mafia was too vulnerable to crosskills and added Evasive (also for flavor reasons). I still agree with the former change but have grown to dislike the latter, mainly because it nerf's malthusis's Ultimate too greatly (it might still have done well on a Mafioso, but it shouldn't have been on The Intruder).

The Seeker

- I can't remember whether this role was in the protosetup or modified (probably yes, since I remember the original setup having redirector + roleblocker and it has the Voice of the Ascended ability); it's also similar enough to MS3 Kaname Chidori that I feel comfortable calling it a MS3 legacy role.

The Ultimate on this role changed during initial design - it was originally a 1-shot recruit, but then I remembered how damn broken Brand was in Mind Screw 3 and how strong a few other Shadow abilities were and changed it for a copy of Kairyuu's Ultimate. The ability to view the High Council thread also came late, when I decided I wanted an additional failsafe against Starbuck dying early and the High Council then taking over the game.

The Hunter

- Probably the most heavily modified Mafioso from the protosetup, and the only Mafioso who doesn't really have an equivalent in MS3 (closest in that game was Tessa). This was probably the most valuable Mafioso bar none, with both a redirect (a fun yet underused ability) and the setup's version of MS3's Brand (weakened for balance reasons), plus Requiem of Watchful Eyes for falseclaim purposes (was in the game from the beginning, but buffed right before sending the setup for review).

The Enemy Mine ability was a late addition, thought up in a"hey, I just thought of a cool ability... time to put it in something" moment. Originally it was slated for Mind Screw 4, but I moved it into this game when I decided the Mafia was still too vulnerable to the town's redirecting and bomb roles. It was intended to be vulnerable to trackers but not watchers and to prevent Mafia kills from blowing up in the Mafia's face.

The Apprentice

- A MS3 legacy role through the oddest possible path. To quote Mind Screw Mafia 3's mod notes:

Marvin - Marvin's history is interesting. This role began as a role in the original Legacy of the Ancients setup. It was then removed from the setup during adaptation and added BACK into the setup (when added back it had the tracker immunity and an Ultimate that would permablock a player and remove said player from win condition calculations so long as Marvin was alive; when Natirasha protested, I reverted the role back to its original version - tracker immunity + bulletproof - and added the Wiretap ability to force the Mafia to make choices) when I thought the Mafia was underpowered with 4 individuals. This was probably a mistake; the Mafia might very well have been balanced without this role.

In order to differentiate this role from its predecessor and the MS3 mod notes, I removed the bulletproof Ultimate and added the bomb ability. The Ultimate was actually an afterthought here, meant entirely for falseclaim purposes - I thought this role was so necessary for the Mafia, even if only as a backup, that it should never use the Ultimate unless necessary.

The Usurper

- This is a role I've been waiting to use for a LONG time. IIRC, the original version was effectively a modified Cult leader (players would be hypnotized but wouldn't know it) that could also play as an Arsonist (force a hypnotized player to kill themself). When I changed the High Council, I changed this role to tie into that change (hence the "become a second Mafia"), added the 1-shot for falseclaim purposes (and to serve as the role's bulletproof shield), and changed the "force target hypnotized player to commit suicide" ability into Soul Nova.

The Hunter-Killer

- Another role from the protosetup. IIRC, it was originally a daykilling SK (the protosetup was a normal day/night design, as it predated my introduction to the concept of Deep South) with a 1-shot bulletproof shield as Ultimate. The bulletproof became double-life when adapting, and then became Requiem of the Oldest Order once I hit upon the idea of using the Lain mechanic as an Ultimate (and central theme) here.

Exile was added shortly before sending the setup for review, for the sole purpose of giving the SK a way to wreak havoc with the graveyard theme.

The Ambassador

- Probably the only Outsider that did change significantly during design, as the original design predated my development of the Invent ability. I've forgotten exactly what the original did (protective ability of some kind, I think?), but the idea was a role that would shepherd the rest of the Outsiders (especially the masons) through the game (Masonify definitely comes from the original design - the unstated intent was for the Ambassador to find the Outsider Masons and use it on one of them).

When I decided to add a powerful ability to one of the Outsiders (to encourage the Ancients to let at least one live), I grabbed Invent from MS3 and put it on the role. In light of that, the freeform became obvious as a 1-shot for the role.

The final choices for this role were a) putting it on the High Council (done very late, in order to ensure that the Outsiders had some presence here) and b) deciding on the point condition.

Note that this role was designed as one of two main ways for the Outsiders to get points, with The Harlequin being the other. For good or ill, xRECKONERx missed one really obvious way to get a point - he would have gotten a point for submitting Outsider Falseclaim, which he could have done at the start of the game!

The Intern/The Attache

- These roles can be mentioned simultaneously, since the basic concept (Outsider masons with the ability to hide both masons) and abilities are drawn in almost unmodified form from the protosetup. The only changes were adding a Renumeration (an obvious Renumeration given flavor) when Renumerations were added to the setup and adapting the roles to use the points win con (IIRC, the original Outsider win condition in the protosetup was "have X Outsiders survive", where I have forgotten the value of X).

The Harlequin

- In the protosetup, this role was different in only one major respect (it had a global roleblock instead of a global redirect - IIRC, it still lost kill immunity when it fired the roleblock, except that the roleblock templating directly removed the kill immunity instead of using a Renumeration). It got the Godfather's global redirect when I modified the Godfather, and gained the points-gaining abilities when I finalized the Outsider win condition.

This was the second main way for the Outsiders to gain points, and in that it succeeded beyond my expectations.

The Senior

- This role dates back to the protosetup, but changed in two significant aspects (other than those related to the High Council). First, its original Ultimate (Supercop, ala the Ivanova ability in Babylon 5 - not surprisingly, since that ability was stolen from the protosetup) was swapped for passing on its ability upon death. Second, the role was swapped from investigating faction to race (so Starbuck WAS a Godfather to it - dramonic was lucky both his Starbuck investigations were blocked).

The Renumeration changed during balancing from "RFG The Senior" to the more interesting "for the rest of the game, you can't use abilities".

The Innocent

- The original role from the protosetup was a Doctor (named The Healer; when I changed the role I renamed this role The Innocent and renamed the role originally named The Innocent to The Child) with Archangel (permanent protection, but the protected player dies when you do; the ability was the inspiration for Sheridan/Delenn in Babylon 5) as an Ultimate (note that I consider Archangel a Special Action instead of a protection, so it can't block kills on the day/night it is submitted unless it's a Rapid Action). The first ability changed to a "target two players, if the first would die today the second dies instead" when redesigning the setup, then changed again to Reflect when I decided the setup had one protective role too many during balancing (see The Archon, below). The only other change to this role was templating (moving the "when you die, the Archangeled player dies as well" part of the Ultimate from the Ultimate itself to the Renumeration).

The Grey Lady

- The protosetup version of this role was a normal vig with a dayvig as an Ultimate. The change to the "gets 1 kill per Ancient killed by an ability" version of the role was the result of one of my "hey, this would be a cool ability..." moments. The Ultimate, on the other hand, was changed to an RFG kill specifically as a hoser to graveyard shenanigans. Well, it certainly did that job right...

The Archon

- Direct cognate to MSIII's HAL9000 (the original version of this role, which inspired HAL and then nearly made it to this game intact, had Reflect as its activated ability and the revive as its Ultimate). This role gained its current form when I decided that one protective role too many was floating around and moved Reflect to The Innocent; I tried to think of something unique and eventually thought "hey, let's have this role be able to copy activated abilities other players use"!

A few weeks later, Xyl posts his list of XylBot roles and I was saddened to see that he had used it first... [REDACTED]...

The Captain/The First Officer

- MS3 legacy role (the protosetup version of this role became Tweedledee/Tweedledum from that game). When I decided to use it again, the primary change I made was in Ultimates (the original version of the role had the forcelynch/Whack A Mole ultimates from MS3 but were confirmed Masons instead of a player and her alt).

Then, about four hours before I start the game, I realize that it's a little too easy to confirm players and try to deconfirm the Neighborhood Watch. The fact that they considered themselves confirmed so quickly can be attributed to the jury-rigging I did to the roles (which really didn't get across the point I wanted to get across).

Oh well, there's always next time.

The Enduring

- A late

delivery from Avalon

addition to the setup, intended to support the redirecting and graveyard themes. Its biggest function was as Inside Information (it would warn the town that players could be players in the graveyard)... and while animorphver1 may have totally misplayed this game otherwise, he succeeded in performing that primary function... completely on accident. (But the town didn't listen until it was almost too late.)

The Mortician

- Legacy role (modified from Georgia Lass in MS3); it lost the multivoting and speak-with-dead aspects of the role early, instead gaining the gravedig ability.

This role hitting xRECKONERx D1 was one of the worst things that could happen for game balance - it was intended to serve as a primary defense against scum with Requiem of the Oldest Order, but hit a role worth copying (and thus lost its gravedig ability) almost immediately.

Then it died.

The Ascendant

- MS3 legacy role (whoever said above that The Ascendant sounded like MS3 Daniel Jackson was exactly right), just with the supercop Ultimate traded for a "give Requiem of the Oldest Order to target player" Ultimate.

Then it died D0. Doh!

The Celebrity

- Blatantly obvious MS3 legacy role, as it's the least modified legacy role of all (General Ripper, anyone? I even commented in Mind Screw 3 how I took Ripper's role almost intact from the protosetup). The ONLY changes in this role from its protosetup version were the Renumeration and changing the activated ability slightly (from Jailkeep to a modified Kidnap).

In retrospect, the Ultimate should probably have ONLY protected The Celebrity when it triggered... which didn't matter, because the kill copy wound up doing its job anyways.

The Security Officer

- This role did NOT exist in the protosetup, IIRC, but was added later after a session of trying to brainstorm new kinds of investigative roles (the equivalent protosetup role was probably the one that became Freud in MS3, given the permablock Ultimate). As best as I know, the ability is unique (feel free to use it - I think it has potential as a Normal role). The Ultimate isn't really new, but this time it actually made it to the game (my reviewers didn't fuss about it this time).

The Bouncer

- This role, IIRC, was not in the protosetup but instead stolen almost directly from Mind Screw 3 (either that or it was the inspiration for Asuka in MS3, since it's pretty much the same role).

The Outcast

- *cough*MS3 Number Six*cough*. Yeah, it's pretty much the same role, except that the secondary function wasn't so useful this time. (One of these days, I'll run "vote position matters" as a main theme.) Next question?

It's a Miller who can clear itself under certain conditions. Really, it's an obvious use of the Ultimate mechanic. It was also the last role added to the setup. (It had a useful second function - the role was intended to encourage heavy bandwagoning, which was good for the town since it would shut down Lain's point gain.)

The Paranoid

- This role is unique in that it was not originally in the setup. It was added late in the design process, both to add another townie to the game (antitown looked overpowered at the time) and to subvert my "bulletproof = scum" mod meta. As for the Ultimate... why not?

(This role is one I used mod prerogative on... giving daykill magnet zwet the bulletproof role keeps him away from the important roles and is liable to block vig shots...

Okay, who am I kidding, it was really for shits and giggles.)

The Child

- MS3 legacy role (the original became Obi-Wan in that game). Not much else to say here.

On Mind Screw 4:

Yay, pre-/ins!

However, I must apologize. While I usually have a setup ready immediately after the last setup ends... I only managed to decide on a theme for MS4 that satisfied me about a week ago. It will take a while to finish (I still haven't finished the role PMs). I've more than learned my lesson about rushing a setup.

Those who want to talk me into letting them co-mod or backup mod... PM me.

[Tarhalindur]

Public service announcement: For those of you who are unaware, the Scummies structure has been updated. Head over to Mafia Discussion and check it out!

[Maemuki]

Meh.

I could have done much better with my role. What a shame.

:<

[animorpherv1]

/in for MS4!

Also, lol how I did what I was supposed to do by accident.

[zwetschenwasser]

/pre-in MS4

I was going to use my suicide bomb if I hadn't been lynched so quickly...

[malthusis]

/pre-in for MS4 if I haven't already

This was a great game, and I felt I did very good in it. This definitly taught me one thing: Playing vigs are fun

[animorpherv1]

Playing vigs are fun

Couldn't agree more.

[UncertainKitten]

This was a great game, and I felt I did very good in it. This definitly taught me one thing: Playing vigs are fun Very Happy

Oh, that is obvious. Why do you think I enjoy having a dayvig so much. Of course, Tar never fixes my role .

[xRECKONERx]

/pre-in MS4

[Xylthixlm]

(Note to Xyl: I assigned a couple of roles specifically - I do reserve mod's prerogative for 2-3 roles in a large them - but IIRC you (unlike, say, zwetschenwasser) weren't one of them. The RNG just hates you.

I say IIRC because you *did* ask for daykills in the signup thread... if I did assign this to you specifically, that's why.)

I asked for a daykill

so I could kill zwet

. Giving zwet kill-immune completely defeats the purpose.

[Xylthixlm]

Actually, I'm going to correct my pre-/in. My desire to not play with zwet outweighs my desire to play in Tar games. Therefore, I am pre-/in for MS4 unless zwet is playing, in which case I am /out.

[Kairyuu]

@DoS: S'fine. I still ended up winning in the end, so the fact that I died early was more mild annoyance that I couldn't use my new awesome role than an actual problem.

@UK: Once you said who you had gotten your dayvig from I had resolved to continue giving them to you once I had reck's role (after killing Socio with reck's super ability because he had been seriously reminding me of Choose Carefully).

Great game to play and to watch.

Pretty sure I've done this already, but if not, pre-/in for Mind Screw 4.

[UncertainKitten]

@UK: Once you said who you had gotten your dayvig from I had resolved to continue giving them to you once I had reck's role (after killing Socio with reck's super ability because he had been seriously reminding me of Choose Carefully).

Aww, thanks ^-^. Glad someone trusts me with bullets .

[Bogre]

/pre in for MS4

[Trumpet of Doom]

Hooray! This time, when I get an investigative role, people actually listen to me!

So even if I hadn't been killed the day I used my Ultimate, it would have been essentially worthless (since I used it on zwet, who had no active abilities)? Oh well.

Starbuck, why me?

[Starbuck]

@TOD - It was personal. =)

/pre-in for MS4

[UncertainKitten]

Is that why you killed me Starbuck ?

[Starbuck]

No, our goal was to take out the high council. As I said, you should have died and not dramonic.

[Starbuck]

You's was business =)

[UncertainKitten]

No, our goal was to take out the high council. As I said, you should have died and not dramonic.

Oh, I meant the endgame kill ^-^

[Sajin]

Random thoughts about the game:

/pre-in MS4

I was going to use my suicide bomb if I hadn't been lynched so quickly...

You should of claimed that zwet. There was no reason not to.

Then you could of suicide bombed starbuck ending the game you know.
I asked for your claim. I was investigated ancient. Why did you do nothing?


@Tar- The captain and first officer considered ourselves confirmed because of our ultimates. Those did not make sense on scum masons.

If mufasa was not modkilled then a kill on him, my claim and a resurection on us both would of been hysterical. Followed by a suicide (which could of even nailed starbuck from my understanding). How many scum would this have potentially wiped out? A lot. (side note, if they commited suicide, would Starbucks ability have redirected it?)


I did not understand my tracking result on starbuck to bogre at all. But... I KNEW there was shadow on the council. (BTW, I think I could of figured this out if FL had claimed the reflect on me, with the lack of deaths on a double day, it should of made sense at least some were stopped)

There is no way deathnote knew the team and sociopath randomly redirected 3 council people. I would of said starbuck was shadow but I tracked her killing shadow.....now I find this extremely humorous.


Animorpherv please work on your play. You were less effective in the graveyard not more so. You should of had no incentive to want to be lynched. Also, town redirectors should almost always redirect someone back to its origin. In that way, it causes confirms and kill preventions and not confusion.


Malthusis did not post anything about his charge counter thing so I could not confirm zwets claim of the same thing.

I thought vaya was the dayvig for most of the game. Xyl did not cross my mind. Only when xyl died did I start to realize. Even then...



I was frustrated at the council wasting actions. I was investigated ancient and had 2 millers to confound my skill so I should of been considered town. FL was targeted by shadow redirection and so should of been obvious town. I said this over and over. The only useful action council took was the double day. Condemn on a target wanting to die? Not useful. Investigate on a already semi cleared target? not useful. A condemn on someone who was insignificant to the town win con? not useful. I really loved this inner circle mechanic though. Everyone wanted control of the council.

Additionally looking at those decrees should of made it obvious someone who wanted to flip investigations could gain control of the council.

Btw how did I get so many clear tracks off? Redirections, millers, roleblocker, require my partner on the target, etc etc. A miracle. Shadows were too occupied with making the council distrust each other.

(And Tar I would of considered it unethical to claim that the results to mufasa and I were swapped and doubly confirmed us as town to each other. I did not need the confirmed results error.)

[UncertainKitten]

To be fair, Starbuck was doing her job wasting our actions (the investigate on me). I just thought it'd be nice to be cleared (though malt apparently had me cleared D1). Condemning Snow Bunny was indeed stupid, sorry I pushed for it. To be fair, we didn't investigate you, dramonic did on his own. We weren't aware of the D0 decree or we would have told you all about it...um...somehow. But yeah, there were a couple stupid actions taken, and I'm glad it didn't end up worse than it did.

[zwetschenwasser]

I never believe investigation results in Tar games. Sorry, Sajin.