Manatee's Pokemon Large Theme | Game Over

[Milobird]

It’s okay bear, you’ll probably still win anyways

But no one in the dead PT can blame us and that’s all I can ask for

[Milobird]

They responded already?

-Bell

[Milobird]

Can you ask that question in thread and get a response in thread.
I'm curious as to the reasoning there.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Yup

I also asked him if I could post his answer to thread and he said yea in case you're wondering about trying to get me modkilled for talking to him

.

Go ahead, please post his answer in the thread.

-Bell

[Milobird]

The amount of preparedness and knowledge Pooky has in terms of roles related to himself and mafia while not knowing ours is an alignment indicative point. Btw.

-Bell

[Milobird]

and you said you could post it.
So post it. I don't disbelieve the answer. I just want it.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Uh, trying to get you mod killed is not something either of us would do. You're scum regardless of role pm.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Perish song can only be stopped IF IT WAS USED AT NIGHT.

It was used during the day.

[Milobird]

Is it when resolved or when it is targeted at the player?

[Milobird]

We've been playing for how many years and you think we would do that?

Only scum Pooky would make that post and that should be obvious.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Like, we hang out Pooky.
Fuck off.

-Bell

[Milobird]

There’s no fucking honor in getting final scum modkilled

[Milobird]

literally your entire iso today is made up nonsense and lies lol

and so we would try to get you mod killed to win.

Good argument.
10/10.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Honest town Pooky knows better.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Like maybe you wouldn't do it

Good for you?

Let's hug it out I still luv you both.

Fuck you.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Apologies.
Because Pooky is scum I shouldn't take it personally.
When game is over no damage is done.
Pooky knows that, which is why he can say it.

-Bell

[Milobird]

I apologize for swearing at you Pooky.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Wait, actually it just occurred to me that you accused us of trying to mod kill you as town to win because we couldn't convince Sircakez to vote you.
I apologize still, but that's gross.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Yup

I also asked him if I could post his answer to thread and he said yea in case you're wondering about trying to get me modkilled for talking to him.

this is not accusing you of trying to modkill me

this is me telling you that I ran my answer by him to make sure it was ok to post to thread

you're just looking for something to be offended by at this point

-Bell

[Milobird]

do you know what the words "in case" means?

Yes. I do.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Do you?

-Bell

[Milobird]

Look Pooky,

"In case you're wondering about trying to get me mod killed"

It's pretty clear.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Uh, because it implies that we would be interested in a win in which you were mod killed and that we shouldn't try that because you already checked with the mod.
It's insulting either way.

[Milobird]

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

[Milobird]

Sure.
Thanks.

It shouldn't actually matter to me because we're in a game of mafia and actually anything anyone says here should be placed in that context.
But it's still alignment indicative imo. I don't think he aims that low when he's town. But maybe I'm wrong about that. It doesn't really matter because he's confirmed scum to me, but you know.

Huh, I wonder if Pooky will get trapped either way and we're back in the Pooky is mechanically scum, here's your logic after all argument.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Pretty sure you're dead tbh.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Titus and Cakez

This is the bottom line. If you two don’t see it with this you aren’t going to until flips are up. You now have MOD CONFIRMATION that the rolestopper is useless to stop the perish song in this instance.

There are two options for the nightkill. Either we are scum who knew TIL was perish songed and Gamma could target them that day, (because he had claimed to have targeted us the night before), and chose to target the OBVIOUS rolestop target who was dead after that phase anyways, and got our kill stopped

Or Wheme stopped the kill by blocking Pooky.

[Milobird]

pretty funny how you knew it was a poison tho enh

wink wink

I’ve had a gen 3 Pokémon as my avatar for most of my time on this forum.

If there’s ANY flavor material I know like the back of my hand it’s this one.

[Milobird]

Wow it’s almost like that missing kill could have been on one of the confirmed town instead!

Or gamma, who protects things!

[Milobird]

Killing TIL early stop the generation of an extra clear

its functionally equivalent to killing a cleared player

except if she investigates you the game is over

I don't actually understand this argument.

-Bell

[Milobird]

tbh, I don't know anything.
Have I not mentioned I'm clueless on mechanics and don't even try.

-Bell

[Milobird]

like this isn't even 3rd grade scum strategy dude

LOL that's about my skill level as scum, yes.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Yeah, I sign all of my posts.
Good try tho.

-Bell

[Milobird]

When would I have even had the time, like. Do you want my schedule?

-Bell

[Milobird]

That's not an answer to how I would have had the time to do that.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Nah I think I’ll let it ride on the mech case

If that won’t sell them nothing will. I’ve done more than enough here.

[Milobird]

But no, I'm out of stuff. I said that already if Sircakez thinks I'm scum. Well that's cool I guess.

I'm cool with the mech solve. Logic shit w/e. It just sounds like you were blocked or something tho and your kill was blocked because you're scum.

-Bell

[Milobird]

I don't even know what your question is at this point

Stop arguing I'm good scum.
Nobody believes that.

-Bell

[Milobird]

It's probably because I actually don't know what you're talking about it and I'm waiting for you to explain it to me.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Jesus christ that was complicated.

Notty explained it to me.

We good.

So basically,
Dwlee had poisoned TIL.
Because nobody poisons Wheme because why the fuck would you.
Wheme role blocked Pooky which is why there was no kill that day.

Got it.
-Bell

[Milobird]

You should explain it better Pooky. I feel like it's important you lay it out for Sircakez so that he can understand it.

-Bell

[Milobird]

It sounds like your argument is that scum must've double tapped the same target, which isn't think good.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Titus and Cakez

This is the bottom line. If you two don’t see it with this you aren’t going to until flips are up. You now have MOD CONFIRMATION that the rolestopper is useless to stop the perish song in this instance.

There are two options for the nightkill. Either we are scum who knew TIL was perish songed and Gamma could target them that day, (because he had claimed to have targeted us the night before), and chose to target the OBVIOUS rolestop target who was dead after that phase anyways, and got our kill stopped

Or Wheme stopped the kill by blocking Pooky.

[Milobird]

It sounds like your argument is that scum must've double tapped the same target, which isn't think good.

-Bell

it's not a double tap the kills literally happen on different nights

lol

-Bell

[Milobird]

I feel like this is what epic mafia games must've felt like.
God, no wonder that site closed down.

Anyway. Yeah. My attention is fully on Notty's case. I'm okay with it. Even though I'd have liked to have won Sircakez over with sheer bleeding sincerity.
It's a good thing I didn't wanna get banned for trust telling or I'd have pointed out all the things I'd never do as scum because my dick isn't that big.

-Bell

[Milobird]

...Because Imaginality gets owned by a tracker and you weren't suspected so you thought it was safe?

-Bell

[Milobird]

Guys haven't read I have pretty strong reason to think Pooky is town so can we wagon somewhere else

cakez you better not be derping
I was feeling really good about Pooky scum

It is something significant
Like if Pooky is scum he gamethrew

[Milobird]

This remote is broken. It won't turn to the cooking channel. Instead it goes to animal planet. I try to mute it to have a good night with my sir but the volume keeps going higher. Worst yet, it's the same episode on repeat.

This bear and this bird are chasing after a sunset and making loud noises.

Make it stop. I want my cooking channel to bake cakes.

Nobody ignores this unless you’re wheme. Apparently.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Whoops didn’t mean to quote the unable to differentiate between town and scum channel.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Hey look. Pooky had an epiphany in the shower.
And then I made an argument as to why that wasn’t true and then I backed it up with quotes from sircakez that most players would listen to including pooky apparently contradicting his I was still suspected argument.

And then Pooky called my side swipe at Titus for ignoring our efforts an aTe.

We’ve given you meta, we’ve given you /logic. I gave you ralts. I gave you pooky.
I’ve tried to play properly. Pooky focuses on the improper. Because he is polite scum and the polite police because he just hopes if he’s annoying enough you will ignore an actual avalanche of reasons for why he’s scum.

His argument has become that there are so many reasons he’s scum this game that we must be scum because we’ve given you too many reasons. I get that you disagree with some of them.

But most of them are accurate and going to be accurate post game.
There’s a lot of AI stuff related to this role interaction argument we just had too.

We’ve done enough.
-Bell

-Bell

[Milobird]

Titus and Cakez

This is the bottom line. If you two don’t see it with this you aren’t going to until flips are up. You now have MOD CONFIRMATION that the rolestopper is useless to stop the perish song in this instance.

There are two options for the nightkill. Either we are scum who knew TIL was perish songed and Gamma could target them that day, (because he had claimed to have targeted us the night before), and chose to target the OBVIOUS rolestop target who was dead after that phase anyways, and got our kill stopped

Or Wheme stopped the kill by blocking Pooky.

[Milobird]

your reasoning literally contradicts itself from day 2 to day 4

Contradiction hunting.
A true scum hunter and not a bottom of the barrel apple bobber.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Pooky is spamming we’re trying to give you reasons ignore our back and forth and just listen to notty’s case.
Listen to it and think about it.

-Bell

[Milobird]

You responded to me side swiping Titus. While ignoring my point.

You’ve done that a lot.

-Bell

[Milobird]

You’ve debunked them by noting that everyone ignored you getting caught because this town is bad.

-Bell

[Milobird]

You responded to me side swiping Titus. While ignoring my point.

You’ve done that a lot.

-Bell

If you use AtE insults on people in this game in order to try to persuade them to side with you

I have the right to call it out.

You also have the right to excuse us of trying to get you mod killed.

So maybe you lost that right?

[Milobird]

You’ve debunked them by noting that everyone ignored you getting caught because this town is bad.

-Bell

This is a good post. Plz read it and my ate wah wah daddy post. But focus on notty’s case. Ignore mine.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Nah you did.
You never explained what your sentence meant and then accused me of looking to be insulted to get some sort of edge. In game.
You also said you were sorry. But you’re not.
-Bell

[Milobird]

Nah. The argument that scum would kill Til early when they were already shindeiru is the only alt explanation. And that’s silly.

[Milobird]

No you didn’t.
You said you covered your ass in case I was trying to get you mod killed.

-Bell

[Milobird]

That’s the same thing.

-Bell

[Milobird]

no its not the same fucking thing

You’re not sorry.

Got it.

Can we focus on Notty’s case.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Titus and Cakez

This is the bottom line. If you two don’t see it with this you aren’t going to until flips are up. You now have MOD CONFIRMATION that the rolestopper is useless to stop the perish song in this instance.

There are two options for the nightkill. Either we are scum who knew TIL was perish songed and Gamma could target them that day, (because he had claimed to have targeted us the night before), and chose to target the OBVIOUS rolestop target who was dead after that phase anyways, and got our kill stopped

Or Wheme stopped the kill by blocking Pooky.

[Milobird]

It’s for sircakez to address not you.

-Bell.

[Milobird]

Trying to cast yourself as the arbiter of bullshit after 8 day phases of posting nothing but posting frivious bullshit is as already mentioned, another example of Pooky being scum.
-Bell

[Milobird]

Do I ever actually use the frozen scum argument.
It’s like you’re predicting things that I don’t actually do.

-Bell

[Milobird]

None of those games I linked were a year ago in length.

-Bell

[Milobird]

That wasn’t a joke, that was a rhetorical strategy to discredit an argument that sircakez pretty much dismissed as “pooky shit posts I see no difference”

-Bell

[Milobird]

I'm just guessing dude

Why would I even do this when you’ve reacted in real time to pretty much everything in this game and nobody here thinks you’re bad or inexperienced scum. The only time the frozen scum might’ve been applicable was when wheme locked you and you said “I’m too obvtown to be scum”

Being frozen scum is for scum noobs like me, not you.

-Bell

[Milobird]

yes bell

you are correct

I was trying to discredit a strategy that SirCakes already dismissed

that makes so much more sense.

That’s just it tho. I don’t see why you’re doing it at all except to annoy me.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Oh. I found it.
I can be a real brick sometimes.
You are just trying to annoy me because there’s some benefit to it.

-Bell

[Milobird]

I like finger skating. I’m at work now. I’ll watch that later.

Gotta go.

In terms of making the mood shitty. It takes two to have an argument. I acknowledge my part in it. But you absolving yourself for your part is another reason you’re scum.

-Bell

[Milobird]

I liked that performance.

Still think Sircakez should vote you. For a lot of reasons.

-Bell

[Milobird]

You don't agree he should vote you for his own well being?
Because I'm being honest about that too.
It would make him feel better.

Also about the town sucking?
Yes. I don't think you can argue that a town that hammers themselves,
and a town that quick hammers a cop for no good reason
and a tense elo with a player that open wolfed, got caught by a role block and posted no reasoning for 8 game days versus a hydra with two players that have literally *never been eliminated as town since they got back, blood stained doesn't count we let ourselves die there due to how our role worked* and both have turbocharged town styles
is a good town. Just tbh. You can call it AtE or w/e but it's still true.
-Bell

[Milobird]

You didn't say any of that was false.

I wonder if Cakez will notice.

-Bell

[Milobird]

I don't think it's necessary for me to call you a liar on every single thing you post because it would be a tremendous waste of time

*looks back at thread*
Are you sure you don't? *smirk* Just add it to the lie pile.

[Milobird]

^-bell

[Milobird]

Then don't. This back and forth mainly benefits you anyway because you're more interested in being liked than I am and this is what you're good at.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Except of course to the people you want to kill.
Kiss up to the people that you need to win.
Insult and annoy everyone else.

-Bell

[Milobird]

How does this back and forth benefit me at all.
You're not disputing that going back and forth is a strength of yours. You often win 1v1's like this, you even did it with Koba this very game.
It's just posturing and casting yourself in the most complimentary light possible with zero introspection or honesty attached.

You keep making the frozen scum argument and I already addressed this. I'm not going to attack you for not posting for a while and say that "I was right look, he's speechless." I never have this game and I haven't in any other games and that argument does not apply to you even a little. So the accusation I would is just an excuse.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Yeah, so why would I call you frozen scum when you're gaseous or liquid scum. I'd be lying if I did.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Bells posts when combined with their avatar are like custom-built to be the maximum amount of infuriating.

[quote="In [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net
I shut down dialogue about whether or not I am scum or whether or not my thinking makes sense because engaging people on their read of me is unpleasant for me and rarely feels productive.

Anyone who compulsively shuts down any scumread of them whether they're town or scum has made themselves a deeply unpleasant player.

Discussion of your alignment is always unproductive

for you

because at the start of the game penguin_alien sent you your alignment. Therefore there's no discussion that could be possibly productive

for you

because it's absolute factual knowledge that you already possess. It's productive for every player in the game that's not you, excepting perhaps your hypothetical scumbuddies (were you scum).

When you sign up to play a game of mafia, you're signing up for a game where your words, intentions, alignment, reads, and everything about your posts will be doubted. Now you can call out bad arguments. But attempting to shut down any possible discussion of it

having voluntarily, of your own free will signed up for a game you knew it would happen in

makes you a deeply unpleasant person to play mafia with.

Have some fucking empathy. Everyone else is playing the game with the same understanding and limitations, and most of us are town trying to figure things out. In fact in every game most of everyone is town trying to figure things out.

In other words, you're being an ass. Chill.

This is scum telling it like it is to me in Warehouse 13. I also quite like Grayice.
So, you know. Also I have a long history of saying I'm town as town and also a long history of saying I have a long history saying I'm town a lot as town.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Also, I'm town.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Titus and Cakez

This is the bottom line. If you two don’t see it with this you aren’t going to until flips are up. You now have MOD CONFIRMATION that the rolestopper is useless to stop the perish song in this instance.

There are two options for the nightkill. Either we are scum who knew TIL was perish songed and Gamma could target them that day, (because he had claimed to have targeted us the night before), and chose to target the OBVIOUS rolestop target who was dead after that phase anyways, and got our kill stopped

Or Wheme stopped the kill by blocking Pooky.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Oh, this is easy to address.

I never stopped insulting or being frustrated with Sircakez so your point is mute. I just dialed it down because I was writing and deleting things that were uncool to write and experiencing feelings that made me feel sick.

-Bell

[Milobird]

im pretty sure sir cakes can read your ate and see how you changed your ate

This is another lie, because you wouldn't have requoted it on this page and the previous one.
The reason you're doing this is because Sircakez said your previous case on the same topic was "pretty convincing." You're just repeating it and manipulating him by encouraging him and his self-esteem again this is only going to make him feel worse.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Yeah, I don't actually have to post everything and it be AI.
Sometimes I just like to explain myself.
But in that case, I was pointing out that I am pretty obnoxious(and have pretty much always been that way) when suspected as town.

-Bell

[Milobird]

It's something scum like to exploit because it's easier to call me an asshole than to case me.

-Bell

[Milobird]

I explained that I swallowed my barely contained rage to try to work with Sircakez.
and explained that I don't like the abusive side of me that just wants to head butt sircakez until he does what I want.
This is a perfectly servicable explanation.

And no, Sircakez gives you ammunition and you're an opportunist.
Reading Sircakez early posts about sheeping him, feeling like a protag, hero solving etc.
You molded yourself around that.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Like, Notty did the same thing too.
And you keep acting like people really will just keep escalating until the building burns down.
But Town Pooky knows people aren't like that. Or else we would be living in a nuclear hellscape.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Just that I would keep being a dick forever

-Bell

[Milobird]

It's a poor argument. Simply because it presumes tensions remain high forever, when it's an up and down thing.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Except I kept on doing it after the point you made that argument.
I've done that a lot and it's a town tell when people still do the stuff they're told will explicitly get them scum read or are annoying people. The changing on a dime thing, is actually more present in your posts than mine.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Nope you actually went right into tail waggy puppy dog mode with the goo goo ga ga eyes

I actually don't know what you're trying to make me or Sircakez feel with this post. But I think it's interesting.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Why do you keep posting pictures instead of using quotes.
You artificially inflate the size of your posts and it's frankly lazy and annoying for scum you to do.

-Bell

[Milobird]

I really don't think you're selling this argument well Pooky.
I think I've maybe given Sircakez a single compliment this game. in some 1500 posts now.

-Bell

[Milobird]

sure buddy

that's why you're still spamming here with me on a friday night

cuz you think you got it in the bag

winkyface

This doesn't make sense again and I still don't know why you're misrepresenting what I'm saying when it's pretty clear you're doing that to a reader. Not just me, but most people.
You've done this misrepresentation thing a lot.

-Bell

[Milobird]

because pictures look aesthetically better than quotes

I actually dislike it. But if you like it, I will tolerate it. For some reason it makes me nauseous.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Here's an instant playback in case you forgot what that looked like:



Good thing I have these screenshots all saved on my server so its easy to just repost them

Er. So.

1. The first one was actually me insulting Sircakez because I was pointing out I was solving for him because he couldn't seem to solve himself. Or when he tried, he kept reaching the wrong conclusions. There's a lot there, that I've decided I'm pretty much not going to get into with him. I dunno what his accuracy is like for town him tho. Arguably he did p. good with Imaginality and Gyphx this game. Even tho gyphx came after I did and gyphx isn't hard to read or solve for, at all. So it's like catching a dead fish on dry land. Imaginality I feel, while busing his entire team, did pretty much get what he was going for because he mainly just posted true things. So I was fooled there.
2. The second one was desperation because I just wanted him to do the right thing and I wanted to win.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Also I shouldn't post at my job so I was squeezing myself to end it there.
The uh.
The fact that I was posting at my job is a thing that I shouldn't do.

-Bell

[Milobird]

"red light"
was because I was posting at a red light.

This is also something I shouldn't do. I'm saying it in game so I hold myself accountable for that. Just because nothing bad happened doesn't mean it wasn't irresponsible.

-Bell

[Milobird]

You realize those are my own posts and I'm admitting to insulting the dude who holds the reins to what I want right?

-Bell

[Milobird]

The second one isn't an insult. I said that.
"Solving for you" is condescending. It's just part of my own perspective on the matter and is in line with how I've used solving for him in multiple posts throughout the game. See earlier posts where I said "I've solved for Pooky again" and such. while holding contempt that Sircakez couldn't see it. He recognized that and said it was obvious to me because I'm town (or pretending to be) and he's scum and we're in elo voting each other.

But like, even when I wasn't voting you, I still thought it was you over Mastina the previous day. And the previous day after that. So.

-Bell

[Milobird]

I'm pretty sure I was the first one to call out Gyphx and spot that you could be scum this game.
I think Koba did a better job tho tbh. Until he killed himself.

-Bell

[Milobird]

I'm pretty sure I was the first one to call out Gyphx and spot that you could be scum this game.
I think Koba did a better job tho tbh. Until he killed themselves.

-Bell

Sorry, I keep doing that. :/

-Bell

[Milobird]

I feel like pointing out all the ways you're scum is good practice for me, because ultimately I like being town and play the game to play town roles. I like solving. Though, that's hardly the only reason. I do just keep wanting to post why you're scum to Sircakez because hope springs eternal and all that.
I don't have much shame about how I played this game in terms of results. Notty should feel bad but I think he redeemed himself by probably making some personal sacrifices to figure out the poison thing and what happened day 3/4.

-Bell

[Milobird]

I'm pretty sure I was the first one to call out Gyphx and spot that you could be scum this game.
I think Koba did a better job tho tbh. Until they killed themselves.

-Bell

Sorry, I keep doing that. :/

-Bell

I'm pretty bad at this pronoun thing.
I am sorry.

[Milobird]

Titus and Cakez

This is the bottom line. If you two don’t see it with this you aren’t going to until flips are up. You now have MOD CONFIRMATION that the rolestopper is useless to stop the perish song in this instance.

There are two options for the nightkill. Either we are scum who knew TIL was perish songed and Gamma could target them that day, (because he had claimed to have targeted us the night before), and chose to target the OBVIOUS rolestop target who was dead after that phase anyways, and got our kill stopped

Or Wheme stopped the kill by blocking Pooky.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Actually you said you were the deep wolf.
In thread.
Repeatedly.

-Bell

[Milobird]

I did get you.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Titus and Cakez

This is the bottom line. If you two don’t see it with this you aren’t going to until flips are up. You now have MOD CONFIRMATION that the rolestopper is useless to stop the perish song in this instance.

There are two options for the nightkill. Either we are scum who knew TIL was perish songed and Gamma could target them that day, (because he had claimed to have targeted us the night before), and chose to target the OBVIOUS rolestop target who was dead after that phase anyways, and got our kill stopped

Or Wheme stopped the kill by blocking Pooky.

-Bell

A series of unfortunate errors has occurred. I keep getting auto logged into icebox for some reason. Sorry for the mess and sorry for the quote. Thought it was page top time.

-Bell

[Milobird]

I wish you would at least make up interesting lies

It feels like your strategy might just be to bore me to death lol

I wish Sircakez could see that you're scum.
But I'll settle for solving for your motivations, if I can't have that.
-Bell

[Milobird]

just quoting the same shit over and over

i guess you really do just want to bore me to death

lolol

This post is meant to kill the atmosphere and annoy me?

-Bell

[Milobird]

Okay Sircakez,

Day 3 Dwlee dies. There is no kill night 3, but on night 4 two people die. We know Dwlee used his action because Pooky/Pooky didn't claim a second vig shot.
We have TIL who claimed a guilty and Whemestar who had not claimed anything at this time. Which of these players do you think was targeted by Dwlee?
TIL was.
Night 3 Gamma targeted TIL. If we were scum we would know this because Mala was blocked from neighborizing us. We know TIL is dying the next night from Dwlee's action.
Why would we kill TIL who we know is going to die and is likely going to be role stopped again. Instead of one of the cleared players or gamma?
Either we did this or Pooky was just role stopped by Wheme and so there was no night kill that day.
Make sense?
-Bell

[Milobird]

Pooky has argued that scum would try to kill TIL early to prevent them from clearing more people even though they were already dealt with and were gunna get blocked again by Gamma so why would we even try to expedite that kill when it would likely fail? Only the scum team knows that TIL is already dead and that Gamma's claim is true.

Pooky has argued that because he is the deep wolf he would not have sent in a night killing action, instead, Imaginality would have because he was more suspected and it would be risky for him to do so.

-Bell

[Milobird]

I don't understand what the thing about the role stopper means for solving here

The simple version is this- the night of the no kill, there were two ways to stop the kill. Either block the person or protect who was blocked.

TIL was likely protected given claims on the table and slotted to die the following night, so wouldn’t it make more sense for a Milo-scumteam to kill one of the already confirmed town (read:you) rather than risk the kill being stopped

Or, Wheme with a claimed roleblock on Pooky blocked the kill.

[Milobird]

Kobas doesn’t count because if you read their claim it blocks the next night cycle.

[Milobird]

God damnit I’m not being clear either.

Either gamma SUCCESSFULLY protected TIL who was already slotted to die from perish song, so scum were cool just wasting that ability altogether and not going for one of the rolestopper, or Wheme stopped Pooky from killing

[Milobird]

^ Yeah, that.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Follow up: in discussing this with Pooky, it became clear that I have a much better understanding of how the role works. Which would ordinarily mean we are more likely scum, right?

But I would know how to use it optimally. AKA, wouldn’t shoot ducking TIL. So either you think we no killed when down three members, or you’re so pocketed STILL the game is over. If this doesn’t sway you just fucking hammer us I’m done arguing this.

You literally have a stopped kill and refuse to see it Jesus fucking Christ Cakez get out of the pocket

[Milobird]

If we wanted to kill TIL a day earlier the perish song went on someone else so it’s not wasted. Scum that’s behind needs EVERY tool at their disposal

[Milobird]

More AtE

Also they are kind of completely ignoring the fact that killing TIL one day earlier means one less invest result which is pretty important in a game where the POE is incredibly narrow and scum need every miselim to win.

Also there is also the fact that scum being killblocked on 1 night by the rolestopper is not really a big loss for them cuz it didn't lead to an extra elim for town as we ended up noelimming from 4->3

also if this actually wins the game for them because you buy it and vote me, then the blocked kill actually won the game for them by creating a fake guilty on me.

killing til 1 day earlier is big gain if the kill goes through but even being blocked they really didnt suffer at all.

Plus if you look at our conversation about perish song its pretty clear i had 0 clue perish song was a delayed poison and i would know that if i actually was mafia.

Look at the last line.

Who is more likely to use a role suboptimally in the situation that happened: us, or him?

As a follow up, if the role WAS used optimally how was the kill stopped? Blocking him.

Like, this isn’t rocket science dudes.

[Milobird]

Except I’ve proven in thread (which can be checked by checking around the mod posts on the topic) I understanded how it worked and would know the poison would kill.

But Cakez is too pocketed by /logic/ to see so it doesn’t matter!

[Milobird]

Pooky's counterarguments are not very good here

Like, even in the eventuality scum DID shoot at TIL- it’s coming from someone who doesn’t understand how the perish song works

[Milobird]

Except I’ve proven in thread (which can be checked by checking around the mod posts on the topic) I understanded how it worked and would know the poison would kill.

But Cakez is too pocketed by /logic/ to see so it doesn’t matter!

this literally just shows you r the scum because you knew it was a delayed poison because you asked about it before hand whereas I am a completely clueless townie who had no idea it was a poison.

It’s literally how it is in the games lol

[Milobird]

I would likely the record to reflect that while I am frustrated with you Cakez I am more frustrated with the fact I’m still in this godforsaken game so you prob are getting a bit extra

[Milobird]

So sorry but obv this’ll mean more postgame

[Milobird]

Pooks argument is literally that it’s not a wasted shot because maybe we’ll kill early or maybe we’ll out a roleblocker

Despite being down 3 members

lol

[Milobird]

But how would we know there’s a roleblocker when there’s already a Shit ton of other blocking roles?

You’re not making a very good argument here bear

[Milobird]

Wow Pooky trying to pull something out at the end of the day for the win! According to the top of the page that’s a scumtell though…

[Milobird]

Awww, are you scrambling bear?

Is your house of cards crumbling?

[Milobird]

Except consistent mood is typically a scumtell, real emotion is fickle and subject to change at all times. Especially with me, where my erratic ness is on record

[Milobird]

I’ll do my best to drop the line for the rest of the game.

[Milobird]

You can go check me versus past games. I swap on a dime fairly consistently.

[Milobird]

Titus also would know I don’t have this level of WIM circa smugglers port 1v1 with kuribo

[Milobird]

Full disclosure, I did plan to melo troll you regardless of who you chose.

[Milobird]

So we predicted a roleblocker would magically block the one other person that would get to MELO, and we’d be able to use it?

Why didn’t we use this power to win the lottery?

[Milobird]

I mean that’s all fine and dandy but we still wouldn’t waste a shot on a poisoned target so your whole argument regarding it is kinda a waste of time

[Milobird]

its literally not a waste if the blocked kill gets you the win at elo but keep pretending it is.

I think what you're saying is that because you're town that this must be the case, essentially inserting a false reality to make Sircakez doubt the reality he lives in. Connected to this however is the flawed premise that because something happened it must have been intentional or that it's how scum us wanted things to be. But you don't substantiate this or make an argument for it.

Killing Mastina is not something you can argue is something we wanted to have happen. As you say, you're the AtE expert. Killing Mastina exclusively benefited you because she does not respond to AtE.

-Bell

[Milobird]

if I were scum my plan would not be to AtE sircakez to death with a player out of my league in this arena. this even coincides with Pooky's own frequent arguments to expertise and appeals to authority.
A reminder that Pooky's argument for the Mastina kill is that she would have changed her mind. Because a cleared player was killed at night.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Except I’ve proven in thread (which can be checked by checking around the mod posts on the topic) I understanded how it worked and would know the poison would kill.

But Cakez is too pocketed by /logic/ to see so it doesn’t matter!

stop saying this shit I'm clearly not pocketed here or I would have voted you guys out already

The amount of effort we've had to put in to make you stop and listen to us
the false equivocation you've applied to us in regards to Pooky's interactions
The arguments you've made in regards to Pooky's contributions in this game.
The initial impressions and confirmation bias
With Pooky being totally frictionless toward you and complimenting you on the regular
While Pooky has a long line of victim's which he affectionately calls "pookits"

Says you are, we're trying to get you out of that Pocket, but only for our own egos. This has probably been the hardest I've tried in a mafia game thoug, not the most thoughtful. I was too angry for that.
I also don't believe you and don't know if you even believe yourself when you say you're having a hard time picking between the two of us. I think you're just saying it because you don't want to look bad regardless of the result, so you're hedging.

Well, actually it might be better to say you just have confirmation bias.
Also, in terms of gloating. Well. I'm not gunna because I'm not scum. An a bunch of other reasons that if I were scum I couldn't gloat about this game. But I'm not going to get into those. Like I said, we're chill. I'm not going to give you unwanted feedback post game or give you a hard time or stalker you post game. I said that and meant it for both my happiness and yours and because nobody deserves that. Vindictiveness is a sweet poison.
and I don't recall a history of Pooky ever gloating. So I wouldn't worry too much about that.
Though in terms of which would hurt more being wrong on.
Pretty sure that would be Pooky since, yeah.
Read the game.

I feel Notty is doing a significantly better job helping you see that Pooky is scum. It's hard for me to step back, but I will. But I'm gunna ask again that you vote Pooky. It'll make both of our months.

@Pooky: saving you time. " AtE"-Pooky.

-Bell

[Milobird]

It's probably the one that understands how statistics work. But I feel like that was just you being scum and planting your flag in every battle ground no matter how absurd the counter argument.
-Bell

[Milobird]

can you show me these "pookits"? I've never heard of this before

He makes these cute little pictures and writes "pookits" on them. I think they're primarily random anime drawings and he just photo shops player's avatars in them.

-Bell

[Milobird]

ok I believe you but like can you give me a game he did it in bc I want to read it over

Wouldn't it be faster to ask Pooky? He knows himself best and he probably saves those pictures and images. They're extremely adorable and I will be upset if he deletes them post game.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Oh, This is gunna be good.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Subject: Death Curse

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm I still think pooky is town

pokit'd

^ he was town here, but here's an example. The white Bear is Noraa.

Also, please share your images of your pockets of people and putting yourself into their pockets and puting them into your pockets . I know you have them.

-Bell

[Milobird]

It's true, you tend to use them interchangeably.
But I actually don't know what point you're trying to make here.
You are well known for pocketing and buddying other players.
As either alignment really. You can be pretty friendly when you want to be.
You have a title that I think was meant to communicate that supportiveness. But also how you use that as scum to win people over.

-Bell

[Milobird]

I also don't think the imagery is that clear cut.
If you have ownership of a teddy bear you love the teddybear and in Pookie's case, he loves you back.
Or at least when I see those images I think of it from that perspective. Well, there's a lot of different perspectives and I also think it's somewhat of a joke because I don't think Pooky is easily poceted just because he does it a lot himself.
But I wouldn't know. It would be helpful if Pooky just solved himself but he's the oppositional type of scum that doesn't really ever admit fault on his own.

-Bell

[Milobird]

You mean people you've fooled as scum?
Oh, yeah I misworded myself there.
I meant that pocketing is part of your vocabulary to the point that you have your own term of endearment for it. It was kind of muddled there with sort of a paranoia argument, but that one I think isn't really true and was more a lapse of brain cells on my part tbh.


-Bell

[Milobird]

yeah I was looking for a specific example where Pooky was scum and totally snowed someone

Oh. This shouldn't be that hard. Pooky could quote some games himself but because he's oppositional scum I don't think he would.

I think an example would be how Pooky approached Alisae in smoke filled chambers.

-Bell

[Milobird]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=84560

^Smoke filled link.

-Bell

[Milobird]

what if all the evidence pointed to one person instead of having a mountain of evidence implicating both people
that would be nice

Could you explain what you're referring to?
If you're expecting a clear answer.

Just go with what Notty said.
I'm simply making an argument of capacity.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Bells argument is one sided my design

he is arguing that scum me is pocketing town you

he is ignoring that town me would also want to pocket town you.

It's true, you tend to use them interchangeably.
But I actually don't know what point you're trying to make here.
You are well known for pocketing and buddying other players.
As either alignment really. You can be pretty friendly when you want to be.
You have a title that I think was meant to communicate that supportiveness. But also how you use that as scum to win people over.

-Bell

-Bell

[Milobird]

You mean people you've fooled as scum?
Oh, yeah I misworded myself there.
I meant that pocketing is part of your vocabulary to the point that you have your own term of endearment for it. It was kind of muddled there with sort of a paranoia argument, but that one I think isn't really true and was more a lapse of brain cells on my part tbh.


-Bell

[Milobird]

you keep spamming that I have SirCakes pocketed over and over and over again

this is factually untrue

if he was pocketed he would have already voted you.

you are trying to instill fear in him of scum!me

Actually you said you would be trying to pocket him as either alignment, so by your own point you've tried to pocket him as either alignment.
The post I made was a refutation that he wasn't pocketed. When I think he is and I made an argument to back that up. Based on my own observances of his statements this game.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Like I said, the fact that you won't admit fault on your own is just trumpist style rhetoric. It's gross and entirely designed to gas light people.

-Bell

[Milobird]

The only person that has been one sided in their assessments all game is you. You've never hesitated or showed contemplation. Nobody else in this game has done that.

-Bell

[Milobird]

You've tried to paint it as natural.
But it ain't.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Nah, you also had the same thing with Mastina, and Koba.

-Bell

[Milobird]

But we're rehashing old arguments.

I still think Notty's argument is enough.

-Bell

[Milobird]

when i lose a game to a godfather vig neighbor scum thats when ill change my way of thinking.

Could you explain what you're referring to?
I vaguely feel that you're referring to Sircakez argument in relation to the set up design related to your shared vig role and how he doesn't think that makes balanced sense. Which is more preying on his own opinions, trying to mirror them as closely as possible because you've shared precious few independent original opinions on your own. But I'm not sure if that's what you're doing.

-Bell

[Milobird]

im going to go eat a nice meal and enjoy my weekend

have fun regurgitating the same debunked bullshit from last week

maybe if you spam enough garbage into this thread sircakes will finally break

good luck !

Sircakez, does this seem like something Town Pooky would say.

-Bell

[Milobird]

I would strongly recommend that you vote Pooky and focus on your finals.
This is simply too much cognitive load on top of that.'

Yes I know me saying that is annoying. Saying it anyway because I genuinely think that will help you.

-Bell

[Milobird]

-Pooky's first mention of me was when I voted Pooky after Wheme jailkept him. That happened on D4. While Pooky said he wasn't reading D1, that still leaves D2 and D3 completely unaccounted for (I have more to say on this, again, this is just my emergency cliffnote version, I will be elaborating on this)
-Pooky didn't apply any of his mastina policies to me this game (I have more to say on this, again, this is just my emergency cliffnote version, I will be elaborating on this)
-Pooky has felt like he's doing to me what he thinks I do to him when I am scum (I have more to say on this, again, this is just my emergency cliffnote version, I will be elaborating on this)
-Pooky's been fairly hypocritical today doing the very thing he accused DKKoba of having done previously (I have more to say on this, again, this is just my emergency cliffnote version, I will be elaborating on this)
-Pooky's adamancy in Milobird being town vanished overnight with DKKoba flipping town (I have more to say on this, again, this is just my emergency cliffnote version, I will be elaborating on this)
-Pooky's projecting pretty hard (I have more to say on this, again, this is just my emergency cliffnote version, I will be elaborating on this)

Probably more but again, this is not a good post to use, this is just my emergency "if I don't get it in before deadline, remember that these were things I said" post, because they are actually pretty damn strong points.

Without the paranoia-on-Milobird paired with the mechanical doubts, the reasons I have actually would push the Pooky read to ~90-95% certainty. It's just that thanks to the mechanical doubts paired with the paranoia on Milobird, they're downgraded from basically-certain-scum into just Pooky-lean (~59%).

(for the record, mechanical doubts largely involve Gypyx interacting with a duo role + the Lunatone/Solrok synergy, again, things I want to investigate but alas, won't get the chance to, I probably should say more here too but given SirCakez already townreads Pooky overall more I don't think elaborating on the mechanical doubts is as important as elaborating on the lean for thinking why it's Pooky in spite of the mechanical doubts)

If scum are not multitasking by default, then whoever performed the scum kill would need to not be using their role.
imaginality had to use his role, so he couldn't do the nightkill without multitasking.
Dwlee was dead. Woolax was dead. Gypyx was dead.

So on N3, the only person who would actually use the nightkill would be the last scum, Pooky or Milobird.
And one of those two was Jailkept that night, with no kill happening then.

It should be noted before I go that Mastina has little reason to suspect or question pooky as scum. It would be easier for her just to let pooky lose the game for town. But that’s sort of conjecture. Just a random thought, but I sort of feel like I’m conf biasing there maybe.

-Bell

A) if she is scum I can rest peacefully knowing that this game isn’t my fault
B) Pookys push on us is actually awful (still waiting for him to provide examples instead of general statements)
C) Pooky literally hasn’t reevaluated once, which should tell you that he came into melo with the express decision to 1v1 off what everyone else said yesterday. He literally went and checked mastina posting frequency but hasn’t tried to point out EXACTLY where we are BSing.

Why would I re-evaluate when I've literally never been wrong on Mastina once.

That Pooky is saying this though is important to the Pooky lean.

Milo why did you abandon your mastina push? because I said I wouldn't vote her?

A) if she is scum I can rest peacefully knowing that this game isn’t my fault
B) Pookys push on us is actually awful (still waiting for him to provide examples instead of general statements)
C) Pooky literally hasn’t reevaluated once, which should tell you that he came into melo with the express decision to 1v1 off what everyone else said yesterday. He literally went and checked mastina posting frequency but hasn’t tried to point out EXACTLY where we are BSing.

I have no idea why you think my scum game has improved a single millimeter, the more likely argument is just that you can't backtrack and you're stuck.

Funnily enough your accuracy and propensity to be on scum wagons is a point against you because the rest of us look like clowns in comparison and towns tend to look more clownish as a result of their ignorance of who is and isn't scum.

e.g., Koba pushing at us and then 180'ing on to you because they sorted us.

Bookmarking this, as it is DOUBLY part of my Pooky lean.
(The second is Koba related.)

I still don't follow how town you comes to the conclusion that I'm harder to read than Mastina tho.
Like we're both equally terrible scum. So. Arguably I'm worse scum actually. It's one of the reasons I think you're scum Pooky, I don't think either of us have looked scummy this game from a bird's eye view.
I'm aware Notty disagreed, but like, yeah.

...No? Mastina isn't confirmed, so there's merit in it. I'm well aware that saying this stuff can piss them off and cause them to retaliate vote me. Still gunna do it.

Bookmarking this, as it is important to my Pooky lean.
(Also as a reminder, the post where I used reminder words like 'mirror'? Also part of the Pooky lean.)

I will point out that Mastina has been right on (2 or 3 eliminations this game?)

At the very least Mastina had more skin in the game.

I've had basically every slot as town/scum at some point, so you could say that I've had perfect reads, shit reads, or anywhere in-between the extremes, and you'd be right.
I'll say that I had Woolax, Gypyx, and imaginality as voteworthy the entire game tho, and that Dwlee was null before I deduced their role and thought it town.

This said, I've more to say on Pooky, actually somewhat related to my gamelong reads, but again, I need to be home for it.
(3 home things: defense, research, and the 3+1 point thingy. Mental note, is 'mirror'+'arrow'+'project' +1.)

So basically.

My concern on Pooky has to do a lot with his approach on slots in the game.

He didn't interact with me until D4, and even then, it was very brief:

its ok Mastina!town loves to vote for me she's like my biggest fan

Mastina only scumreads me when she's town
when she's scum her read of me is always "the towniest town to ever town"

This was on D4, after Wheme claimed the jailkeep on Pooky which at the time looked like a solid guilty.

mala titus mathblade cakes 10000% town
pooky milo mastina v town
some people r left over here

mala titus mathblade cakes all checked innos
pooky milo mastina are town af
koba chowchow I can't remember who else is playing

These are the next mentions of me.

lol wut
mastina is so far out of her scum range she couldn't find her way back to it with GPS

With this as the next.

You might remember that as a fairly recent post all things considered; I think that 5251 was a D8 post?

Suffice to say though, that Pooky's interactions with me are very very sparse.

Pooky didn't do

anything

that I would expect him to do.

Pooky normally takes a look at my readslists and does the inversion trick, trying to find the scum at the top of my readslist--and if he finds none, then he usually thinks (with a decent degree of accuracy) that the reason why is that I am scum.

More than that, Pooky has been steadfast that I'm town and out of my scum range.

That's true

now

, but it wasn't at the time Pooky was first interacting with me.

It wasn't until we eliminated imaginality that I was really out of my scum range--that was what, D4? D5? Somewhere around there.

Before that, my post count was actually fairly low, and so too was the amount of content I was posting.

Yet I wasn't absent entirely.

I was there, I was posting, I was around, but I wasn't the strongly-town self that I am now.

Why didn't Pooky interact with me? He always checks my readslists to invert them; he's not done that once this game.
If Pooky thought I was scum, that'd be one thing--because my readslists as scum tend to be more accurate.
But Pooky didn't think I was scum; he thought I was town. NOW it's obvious--but why did he think it back

before

it was obvious? Why was I not scum to him? I wasn't out of my scumrange yet at the time.
Pooky didn't comment or interact with me basically at all.

Pooky has his own meta standards for reading me, but didn't use them at all this game. The closest was him going "mastina's always wrong on me so her saying I'm scum means I'm town", but that in of itself was a bit disingenuous because I've got a perfect track record of reading Pooky when I am scum, and Pooky didn't say I was town when commenting on my scumread on him. Why was there none of the usual work from Pooky that he shows on me?

It's not due to this being a Large Theme with a lot of players--Pooky has done this to me when there's far far more players than there were in this game. Like, this is a 21-player game. By D2, it was an 18-player game.
18 players.

Pooky has definitely put the work into reading me when there was 17 players, and has also put in the work to read me when there were

twenty-four

players. (Pooky did not ignore me in DEFCON 5 the way he didn't interact with me in this game.)

New poe: {Pooky, Titus, Dwlee, KTT}

That said, the only name I'm not really interested in sheeping you on here is Kitty Trauma Team. Would vote the other three.

Why didn't Pooky notice this?

Does this meta apply to all days? In Owner's Market Blitz mastina only mentioned it as a D1 meta.

I was under the impression it was a D1 tell that Pooky has never bussed a scumbuddy on D1 before.
Past D1, I would assume he

has

, although I'd expect it to still be a rarity, but I've no way of really knowing for sure.

Ralts/PookytheMagicalBear

imaginality
The Goat/Titus
T3
SleepyKrew/Valkyrie Dimension
Alexandrite/Gamma Emerald

(did a slight reordering of the nulls to be more accurate since chowchow is the towniest and Pooky the least townie of them, and also have a couple promoted reads, but mostly the same here)

Why didn't Pooky have anything to say about this?

So removing that, it leaves:
Save The Dragons
Wisdom
imaginality
WhemeStar
chowchow (Anonymous Hydra)
Malakittens / Kitty Trauma Team (kuribo + Malakittens)
PookyTheMagicalBear / Ralts
DkKoba Thestatusquo (has roleclaimed but this roleclaim doesn't affect my read)

From there, I still have a townread on STD and Wisdom (I realize this isn't universal) and think that Malakittens and DKKoba are still less likely to be scum from play alone.

Which leaves my personal initial "PoE" (it's not really one since some of the names here aren't so much scumreads as much as "I personally cannot get a read there RIGHT NOW even if others can and think the slot is town") as:
{imaginality, WhemeStar, chowchow, Pooky} for 2 scum remaining.

Why did Pooky have nothing to say about my POE here which included him?

While I briefly had Pooky as a vote and he commented on me then, why did he say nothing when I then locked him as town?

I was locking him as town.

Pooky has, previously, treated me locking him as town as basically a scumclaim.

Why didn't he do so here?

Pooky hasn't reevaluated or reassessed me, in spite of there being classic red flags he's previously associated with my scumgame. Yes, I am NOW out of my scumrange--but Pooky never had a thought about me being scum during the times PRIOR to me being outside of my scumrange. Why was I

never

in consideration for being scum to Pooky?

It's as if Pooky is doing the very thing he says I do to him when I am scum.
He describes it as, "when mastina is scum, she always has me as the towniest town to have ever towned, but when mastina is town she has me as scum".

Well, Pooky this game has had me as the towniest town to have ever towned, but when he is town, he has previously not shown this attitude as far as I can remember.

Pooky has also done the very thing he accused DKKoba of doing.
Remember when Pooky accused DKKoba of changing reads on who was locktown vs who was lockscum on D8 compared to D9?

He did the

exact

thing on D9 he accused DKKoba of having done on D8.

this is also the viability i keep in when thinking of pooky/mastina being scum and its part of why theyre eliminated from being scum. that just isnt reasonable for them to let imaginality be so bad and throw as godfather.

scum koba can't keep track of all the lies they tell rofl

i learned something new about your scum meta between then and now
prove your scum meta has coaching and maybe you might have a point but I know for a fact that there are scum games where you let your scumbuds do whatever even if its terrible

ITT koba swears up and down they r spewed town by themselves

Excuse me, but what's wrong with this tactic.

its nonsensical gibberish.

you have the same scumtells as SS being allergic to certain lines of discussion its funny :3
at least youll spew out a little bullshit about stuff but you are too afraid to go in depth at all

lol at koba giving up and deciding to try to convict ralts

its still your slot buddy

I can't find the quote I was looking for, but Pooky basically said that DKKoba was, after STD was dead, opening up mislims by changing their read on players.

Pooky proceeded to do precisely that today.

Pooky has shown some hypocrisy in his reads by projecting things that he says they are doing when he has done the exact same thing.

Like, I can quote all of Pooky's reasons for Milobird being town, and they are quite extensive:

its not milobird

bell way out of scum range

koba is the last possible baddie

I've literally never misread bell in my life

there's no way he suddenly went from "unable to post as scum" to "top posting god scum bell"

it's literally just koba

This is my first post here today

you're voting for me
you're bad
have fun losing

What happened to the certainty that Pooky has never misread Bell before?

What happened to Pooky's defense of Milobird?

What happened to Milobird being hard-cleared?

And why did Pooky decide that Milobird was less clear than me come today?

Yes

, someone would need to be scum--but what makes me be more-town to Pooky than Milobird?

What makes me be so unscum to Pooky compared to Milobird who Pooky has apparently never misread before and yet Pooky is claiming that Milobird is the last scum?

Why didn't Pooky think that I could be scum? Pooky is less familiar, less intimately knowledgeable, about my play compared to Milobird's play.
Why didn't Pooky keep the townread on Milobird and think that I could be scum?
Why didn't Pooky reassess both of us? If Pooky came to the conclusion after reassessing that I couldn't be scum, that'd be one thing--but Pooky never did this reassessment at all. Pooky never once did this work to sort me.

Pooky just had me as town, and had Milobird as town, and then shifted the read on Milobird without one iota of effort to focus on me.
Yes, Pooky put in work to defend me from Milobird--but that was Pooky going out of his way to prove that I am town.
Not Pooky figuring out that I am town.

The difference between the two is going out of your way to prove I am town means you are already assuming or know I am town;
Figuring out I am town means you are sorting me as town and showing your work.

Pooky did the former, of defending me as town, not the latter, of sorting me as town.

When it comes to incentives, this fits more with Pooky-scum than Pooky-town.

Pooky-town has a drive to not get things wrong.
Pooky-town has a drive to be right.

Why, if Pooky is town, does this drive to be right mean absolutely zero thought given to my alignment with literally all of it being defense of me that presupposes I am already town? It doesn't make sense for Pooky to have NOT sorted me at all. (Basically, put it another way: Milobird's approach here is actually the townier of the two because Milobird

isn't

locked into one player being the final scum and is considering both.)

But as scum, there's a very obvious incentive:
Pooky does not want to 1v1 me.
Pooky

might

win that 1v1, sure--but it's

easier

for Pooky to win the 1v1 versus Milobird.
Not easy, mind you. A 1v1 versus me is gonna be hell, and a 1v1 versus Milobird made up of Bell and notscience is going to be nightmarish, so no matter what, it's going to be difficult.

But given the choice between the two, Milobird is by far the easier person to 1v1. Bell is many things; charismatic is not among them. notscience is also fairly lackluster in the convincing others field.

I can do a better job of defending Milobird than Milobird can; I can write a better case for Pooky being scum than Milobird can. So like...Pooky knows that Milobird is, while not EASY to mislim, compared to me, EASIER to mislim.

As scum, I see the incentive clear as day; focus on eliminating the player who is less of a pain in the ass to verse, especially given the other townies' stances.

I was scumreading Milobird so would be receptive to Milobird being scum;
SirCakez has townread Pooky the entire game so would be receptive to Milobird being scum and SirCakez has previously scumread Milobird.

In contrast SirCakez has continued to insist I am town at every stage in the game and while Milobird has had one half think I am scum the other half has contested that. Meaning a push on me would be an entire order of magnitude harder to maintain.

It's easier for Pooky to not suspect me, because Pooky suspecting me makes me more likely to OMGUS him. Pooky knows this. He knows I will OMGUS people with burden of proficiencying them--so he would know that if he suspected me, I'd pick up on it being bullshit.

Pooky said "why would I reevaluate mastina when I've never been wrong on mastina once", but that logic doesn't hold given he's also never been wrong on Bell once--yet clearly has reevaluated Bell.
Why the reevaluation on Bell who Pooky has never been wrong on, but NOT a reevaluation on ME who Pooky has never been wrong on?

Pooky's reasons for townreading me also are not the normal ones. Pooky's inventing excuses it seems like to NOT suspect me, rather than displaying his normal tells.

And the point about Pooky not pointing out why people are scum is valid.

Pooky said that it was DKKoba just because it was DKKoba. That was it. Pooky said that I was town and that Milobird was town so there was an implicit "DKKoba is scum because nobody else can be", but Pooky did not go into explaining the read at all. Pooky didn't investigate, didn't look, didn't assess, DKKoba's alignment critically. Pooky just went "lol ur scum" to DKKoba.

And after DKKoba flipped town? Now Pooky is doing the exact same thing to Milobird. There is an implicit "Milobird is scum because nobody else can be", but Pooky does not explain the read at all. Pooky isn't investigating, isn't assessing, things critically. Pooky's just shading what Milobird is doing, saying "lol this is scum" to it.

Yet Bell was on-point:
Pooky was previously on record as saying Bell

could

not

be this good as scum.
Pooky said that Bell was fundamentally incapable of being this as scum.
Pooky insisted that Bell literally couldn't do what Bell has done this game as scum.

And yet today that all went out the window...why?

Again, I can't see the town motivation for throwing the Bell meta specifically out the window without having thrown out the mastina meta as well. Why discard the accurate read on Milobird without discarding the accurate read on mastina?

I CAN see the scum motivation--having no choice but to choose a 1v1 to enter and deciding Milobird was easier than mastina.

Milobird is also right that Pooky's accuracy here is precisely an issue.

Again.

Pooky has been VERY accurate.

Pooky has a basically flawless record at reading both me and Bell.

Pooky, as town, SHOULD be accurate enough to have

never made the mistaken read in the first place

.
If Pooky is town, then he was wrong on a read that he should NEVER have been wrong on in the first place.
Either he should never have townread me, or he should never have townread Bell. But he townread both--which fits with the typical Pooky as town expectation. It's expected that Pooky as town would know our alignments here and get them right. So how did he get the alignment wrong on Milobird in the first place if he's town?

I struggle to see it.

Whereas if he's scum, it's clear as day; he gave the correct read for as long as was possible, and then only when there was no other option did he switch it from the previous correct (and expected) read into the wrong (but necessary) read.

And again--why was Pooky right on me but wrong on Milobird?
Why was Pooky sure he couldn't have made a mistake on me?

I've had plenty of town players be wrong on my alignment before when expecting to be right on it. Thinking I was town when I wasn't, or vice-versa. In spite of their prior usual accuracy. Why no paranoia on me

at all

? Why not a single iota of thought that I could maybe potentially be scum, at any stage?

So again, Milobird was right--Milobird investigating me is something that could make me more likely to vote them.
Pooky defending me, pocketing me, is something that would make me less likely to vote him.
If I expect people to be right on me, and I expect all three of Pooky/Bell/notscience to read me correctly, then the playerslot who did so is more likely to seem town to me.

But Pooky's play here looks like it is deliberately exploiting that tendency, that trait, of mine.


I'm sorry, this is a mess, probably missing a bunch, probably overlooking things, but like:
This, plus the jailkeep on Pooky, plus the general lack of townness from Pooky, all contribute to thinking that Pooky looks quite scum. DKKoba raised many valid points about Pooky and I probably should've quoted more of those, too, but it all adds up.

In contrast, the only reasons I can think of for Milobird to be scum are specifically reasons Pooky wouldn't be scum. Milobird has nothing by play to be scum here. The only reason for Milobird to be scum here is if Pooky couldn't be scum here, essentially.

Again, there's enough things that indicate Pooky might be "couldn't be scum" to prevent this gigantic post from being more than a Pooky lean.

I do mean it, it's ~59% Pooky and not more.

But I feel it important to say this much.

-Bell

[Milobird]

I'm gunna take a break for today and read stuff to relax I haven't taken a day off in awhile.
Just focus on Notty. I genuinely don't think what I'm saying is helping any.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Cakez-

Pooky managed to walk back Borks and my dunk scumread on him via neighborhood in Day 3 of Mountain Dew mafia.

Despite my insistence they stop hiding in the PT.

So, yeah.

[Milobird]

Also, friendly reminder that we wouldn’t have wasted a kill on a dead target. The numbers work out so that by killing someone else out of the elim pool (say, someone who is a protective) we set ourselves on an easier path to endgame. Either the kill was blocked or scum doubled up on TIL, both of which point to the bear.

[Milobird]

Hey Cakez

Not to be that guy, but if you’ve been wrong most of the game what does that mean of your hero solve…

[Milobird]

As a side note, Pooky was saying we planned to use this roleblocker offense the whole time.

Why did we just now bring it up then if that was our plan the whole time? And forget about it altogether for days? Isn’t it much more likely I reread things and found something that didn’t add up?

[Milobird]

im going to go eat a nice meal and enjoy my weekend

have fun regurgitating the same debunked bullshit from last week

maybe if you spam enough garbage into this thread sircakes will finally break

good luck !

Sircakez, does this seem like something Town Pooky would say.

-Bell

I am tired from debunking your shit.

You have spewed so much spam into this thread that it is barely recognizeable.

You keep throwing shit at a wall hoping something will stick and break through because you know you pretty much have nothing solid.

You are hoping to win by just relentlessly spamming and gaslighting the fuck out of SirCakes.

You spent the entire fucking game bashing him for daring to possibly think you could be scum.

Now that he told you to fuck off, you've decided to moderate your tone and talk about how amazing Sir Cakes will feel if he would just vote for Pooky.

It's transparently obvious to anyone who actually takes the time to back up and think about the type of AtE you are using.

You're bein' toxic bro.
and also yeah, he will feel good if he votes you and wins the game.
Is there something false in that statement Pooky?

-Bell

[Milobird]

I personally feel he would be better off mentally if he voted you now.
I was in college and played mafia and I had to stop half way for self-preservation. I genuinely think he would be better off.
I actually don't think he should hammer us if he plans to hammer us because that could mess up his grades too.

The arguments gross, but it's also true. It's also something I wouldn't say as scum because I would feel bad and as you've been happy to point out,
I'm not willing to make these sorts of arguments of win as scum which is one of the reasons my scum game sucks. But I'm perfectly happy making these arguments as town because I really do want Sircakez to get this albatross off of him.

Pooky timer saver: AtE, wifom.
-Bell

[Milobird]

You could argue that this isn't the case because I could be subtly implying that he would feel better after losing focusing on more important life stuff.
But it's unpredictable how he might feel after that loss, so I just wouldn't do it.

-Bell

Pooky time saver: "AtE, Wifom, so bad"

[Milobird]

Friendly reminder that we never ever shoot TIL there after the Perish song is used.

[Milobird]

We can focus on the night kill again if you'd like. I know you're a real fan of that one.

-Bell

[Milobird]

As a side note, Pooky was saying we planned to use this roleblocker offense the whole time.

Why did we just now bring it up then if that was our plan the whole time? And forget about it altogether for days? Isn’t it much more likely I reread things and found something that didn’t add up?

Because your AtE and other nonsense that you used at the beginning of the day didn't work.

If it worked and Cakes voted me you wouldn't need to bring this shit up now.

You're literally just using random bullshit arguments one after another.

Volume over quality

Wouldn’t scum-us just use the slam dunk early? Poor bear, I’m sorry about your house of cards.

[Milobird]

But bear, you’re on record saying we wanted to use that to push you going all the way back to day four! Why wait?

It’s okay that both options point to you being scum. Because we would play the perish song optimally given my pogeymanz background

Ninj-
for someone accusing us of making the game unreadable you sure are doing a lot of posting yourself bear but keep tooting that horn! I’m sure it’ll make them forget you were blocked on a night with no-kill.

[Milobird]

I’m not the one so gung-Ho to discredit the mech, bear! That seems to be all you care to do… get them to ignore it.

Too bad!

[Milobird]

Again, for someone who claims to be such an expert at bell you seem to be awful at telling us apart!

Probably just tilted from getting blocked by Wheme. I understand.

[Milobird]

@Cakez- the case that has been presented is that bell doesn’t look like another game Pooky is trying to claim meta on, while REPEATEDLY failing to notice when Bell and I swap out despite the obvious signs. Is that not concerning? He wants to claim Bell is nothing like another game but he’s shown, /repeatedly/ he doesn’t seem to know what bell looks like.

Also he got blocked the night of no kill

[Milobird]

It's a good thing you're scum this game Pooky or calling me a toxic waste dump would've hurt.
The drunk post that you faked to discourage Notty won't work when we directly know you're scum.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Wait, has Pooky been claiming to be an expert on town Bell?
Because Bell is an expert on town Bell, let me tell you.

I could post so many reasons I'm not scum this game it's not funny.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Actually, let's not.
Let's focus on the night kill stuff and Mastina dying.

I've done this song and dance as town before and let me fucking tell you.
It's a tremendous waste of time because people just roll their eyes and tell me it's wifom.


*pooky time saver: "AtE"*

-Bell

[Milobird]

Pooky, Milo for the love of God, shut up please. I'd like to talk to Cakez.

k, one question first. What are your thoughts on the no kill given the flipped roles so far?

-Bell

[Milobird]

Wut.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Dwlee was...

Spoiler:

Altaria / チルタリス / Tyltalis

Humming Pokémon

Pokédex Number: #334
Height: 3'07" (1.1 m)
Weight: 45.4 lbs. (20.6 kg)
Gender Ratio: 50% Male / 50% Female

COTTON GUARD:

The user protects by wrapping a body in soft cotton
◓ Once at night, you may target another player with your cotton, disallowing any non- actions from affecting that player

PERISH SONG:

Both user and foe faint in 3 turns.
◓ Once, during any phase you may sing to another player, you and that player will both faint three day/night phases later.

You are a member of

Team Rocket

You win when your numbers are equal to that of the

Town

or nothing can prevent this from happening

Night starts now and ends in (expired on 2021-10-28 23:00:00) from now

Here you go.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Dwlee was...

Spoiler:

Altaria / チルタリス / Tyltalis

Humming Pokémon

Pokédex Number: #334
Height: 3'07" (1.1 m)
Weight: 45.4 lbs. (20.6 kg)
Gender Ratio: 50% Male / 50% Female

COTTON GUARD:

The user protects by wrapping a body in soft cotton
◓ Once at night, you may target another player with your cotton, disallowing any non- actions from affecting that player

PERISH SONG:

Both user and foe faint in 3 turns.
◓ Once, during any phase you may sing to another player, you and that player will both faint three day/night phases later.

You are a member of

Team Rocket

You win when your numbers are equal to that of the

Town

or nothing can prevent this from happening

Night starts now and ends in (expired on 2021-10-28 23:00:00) from now

Here you go.

-Bell

Page top!

-Bell

[Milobird]

Comprehensive List of Claims/Reads

, Version 3.0

T3

Pokemon:

Makuhita

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Bulk Up

Role:

extra attack for evolution

(speculation: evolution was an X-shot vig?)

Actions:

N1, did nothing? (not confirmed, but role wasn't evolved so presumed).

Notes:

(None)

Wisdom

Pokemon:

Huntail

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Dive

Role:

Nonconsecutive Follower (sees type of move target used, from Protective/Killing/Investigative/Misc.; couldn't use two nights in a row)

Actions:

Guess we'll never know, huh?

Notes:

Fuck y'all for extending the game because with Wisdom not speed-limmed we'd have already ended the game in a town win.

Save the Dragons

Pokemon:

Mareep->Flaafy->Ampharos

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Light Screen->Growl->Cotton Spore

Role:

Protection from non-Normal(type) moves (with link to Normal-type moves)->protect from harmful moves, prioritizing non-killing moves (one action stopped/night)->treestumps a player after their death.

Actions:

N1, evolved. N2, evolved. N3, targeted

Titus

. N4, targeted MathBlade (however, this failed due to Gamma Emerald's rolestop).

Notes:

Well, crap. I should've stuck to my guns.

Alexandrite/Gamma Emerald

Pokemon:

Blissey

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Heal Pulse

Role:

Indecisive Rolestopper (prevents target from being affected by any move/role; cannot target the same player consecutively)

Actions:

N1, rolestopped mastina (granting her a 1x copy of his role); N2, rolestopped Milobird; N3, rolestopped Truth Innuendos Lies (this is the source of the failed nightkill); N4, rolestopped MathBlade; N5, ???; was nightkilled.

Notes:

(None)

WhemeStar

Pokemon:

Gardevoir

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Imprison

Role:

Combined Jailkeeper Watcher (Targets a player; target is protected but roleblocked; learns whoever visited target)

Actions:

N1, ???; N2, ???; N3, targeted PookyTheMagicalBear (nobody targeted Pooky N3), N4 ???; was nightkilled.

Notes:

(None)

The Goat/Titus

Pokemon:

Milotic->Milokaross

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Splash->Disarming Voice

Role:

Fruit Vendor->1-shot Strong-Willed Friendly Neighbor (cannot be prevented, but could be redirected)

Actions:

N1, targeted Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens (this action's failure is unexplained) and evolved. N2, Friendly Neighbor'd Milobird. (Milobird confirmed.); N6 was nightkilled.

Notes:

(None)

chowchow

Pokemon:

Wurmple->Cascoon->Dustox (allegedly due to scum flip D1)

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Confusion

Role:

Roleblocker that doesn't stop kills

Actions:

evolved N1; evolved N2; no-action'd N3/N4/N5.

Notes:

...Oops?

Truth Innuendos Lies

Pokemon:

Absol

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Future Sight

Role:

Informed 3-shot Delayed Cop (targets a player; receives their role the next night; could use this action three times; knew there was a Godfather in the game, later revealed to be

imaginality

)

Actions:

N1,

Dwlee

; N2, investigated SleepyKrew/Valkyrie Dimension/Critter/Mathblade, received the result of them being

town

; N3, ??? (but was killed before results); N4, was nightkilled.

Notes:

Was the N3 nightkill, due to Gamma Emerald's rolestop being the only killstop effect to work that night.

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

Pokemon:

Remoraid->Octillery

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

???->Wrap

Role:

Neighborizer-permanent-Busdriver(busdrives self and neighborized target permanently)->Modified 2-shot Babysitter / Rolestopper (twice, could prevent target from being targeted by any non-killing actions; if killed, would take target down with them)

Actions:

N1, ???; N2, targeted Milobird (this action failed due to Gamma Emerald's rolestop); evolved; N3, ???; N4, ???; N5, ???; N6, ???; N7, as nobody died with them, fundamentally could not have acted.

Notes:

Was confirmed as town from

MathBlade

using a

Loyal Neighborize

on them N4.

SirCakez

Pokemon:

Solrock

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Wonder Room

Role:

Neighbor-Vigilante with

PookyTheMagicalBear

Actions:

N1, Vigged

Gypyx

.

Notes:

Was confirmed as town from

Firebringer

using a

Loyal Neighborize

on him N1.

Thestatusquo/DKKoba

Pokemon:

Phanpy->Donphan

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Sturdy->Earthquake

Role:

Bulletproof->Nonconsecutive Delayed modified-Rolestopper which is a form of Roleblocker (targets a player; anyone targeting that player that night is roleblocked the following night)

Actions:

N1, evolved. N2, self-targeted (this failed due to me, mastina, rolestopping them); N3, could not act; N4, targeted MathBlade (this failed due to Gamma Emerald rolestopping them); N5, couldn't act; N6, protected SirCakez; N7, couldn't act.

Notes:

I'M SORRY.

SleepyKrew/Valkyrie Dimension/Critter/MathBlade

Pokemon:

Lotad->Lombre->Ludicolo

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Mega Drain->1x Dragon Dance

Role:

???->modified 1-Shot Universal Backup (chooses who to back up the role of)->1-shot Loyal Neighborizer (targets a player, forms a neighborhood with them; action fails if targeting scum)

Actions:

N4, neighborized

successfully

Kitty Trauma Team/Malakittens

, conftowning them.

Notes:

Was confirmed as town from

Truth Innuendos Lies

investigating him N2 and receiving this result N3.

Sharing the Braincell/ssbm_Kyouko

Pokemon:

Azurill

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Attract

Role:

Lovedizer (target takes one more vote to eliminate)

Actions:

N1, ???; was nightkilled.

Notes:

(None)

Firebringer

Pokemon:

Rayquaza

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Dragon Dance

Role:

1-shot Loyal Neighborizer (once in game, targets a player, forms a neighborhood with them; action fails if targeting scum)

Actions:

N1, neighborized

successfully

SirCakez

, conftowning him.

Notes:

(None)

mastina

Pokemon:

Sudowoodo

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Mimic

Role:

Reflexive Role-copier (the first player to target me, I get a one-shot copy of their move/role)->One-shot rolestopper

Actions:

N1, received a rolestop (later revealed to be Gamma Emerald's); N2, rolestopped DKKoba.

Notes:

Well I know I'm town but objectively I've technically only got circumstantial evidence clearing me between my interactions with scum, scum's interactions with me, the unlikelihood of scum having both my role and Gypyx's, and that I am out of my scum range, but *shrug*, SOME fucks still don't see me as town so make of it what you will.

Milobird

Pokemon:

Meditite->Medichan

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Detect(only???)->???

Role:

2-shot nerfed/ORIGINAL-Motion Detector (also known as a weak-voyeur, not weak-modifier, but literally

weakened

-voyeur; may be getting an official NRG-rebranded-name soon) / Activated Bulletproof->(eventually clarified to be 2-shot) Flavor Cop / Rolecop (depending on target's evolutionary status); checks what someone evolves into and if they’ve evolved/can still.

Actions:

N1, immunity, triggering evolution. N2, targeted Wisdom (result: two evolutions, one neighborizer one follower). N3, targeted Malakittens (result; evolved). N4, targeted STD (result, STD is a 2-evolution pokemon; received this result due to mod error). Couldn't act after (and technically shouldn't have been able to N4).

Notes:

Obvtown by play, but not conftown.

Ralts/PookyTheMagicalBear

Pokemon:

Lunatone

Move

(Role Flavor)

:

Wonder Room

Role:

Neighbor-Vigilante with

SirCakez

Actions:

N1, Vigged

Gypyx

.

Notes:

(I have things to say here, I'm just not saying them yet)

(this may still have errors in it, sorry, making this is a pain in the ass to keep accurate, but I tried my best)

Here you go. I'll leave you be now.
-Bell

[Milobird]

Titus there’s multiple flipped scum blocker roles lol

[Milobird]

No Mercy, bear.

You figure out where my missing kill is yet? Because again, someone who understands the perish song never wastes their shot there

[Milobird]

I know neither of you are going to care, but I went back and noted that the FB kill also points directly at Pooky.
There was more suspicion that way then I initially thought and FB was playing the best out of the town in addition to clearing Sircakez at the time of their death. But this would only be true if they were right on Pooky. Pooky has had a similar approach to the FB death, basically arguing that they'd never kill the person actively scum reading them right away because they joined to play with them.

But Pooky swapped into a scum slot, so that sucked for him.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Day 10 starts now and ends 1 day, 19 hours, 26 minutes from now

We are inside of 2 days so Cakes please make a vote before we get inside of 1 day we don't need to no elim a loss here.

This is incredibly fake concern trolling.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Then what you’re saying pooky is that if you were scum you would’ve shot him no matter what and so your self meta saying you’d never shoot him is a blatant lie. >.>

-Bell

[Milobird]

I'm leaning towards a Pooky hammer but I will feel really stupid if he's town.

Wouldn't veto Cakez's choice.

Thank you. I dunno what drew you to the right conclusion but I am grateful for it nonetheless.

-Bell

[Milobird]

1. Pooky Pocket. Role design actively encourages you to fool SC. Petapan story, It's called motive. You have a motive to kill Gyphx because, as firebringer brought up day 2. We were gunna kill Gyphx the next day anyway~ Also yeah, you wanted to do it because you keep bringing it up to people randomly on the street! It's exactly like a dude bragging about planning to kill someone in a bar one of these days. The context argument can be used for almost *any game* that doesn't have the exact same set up it's relatively easy to debunk.
2. You lied about coaching Gyphx in tenet. It was mostly Cabd and LLD nagging them.
3. Correct me if I'm wrong but Firebringer said they cleared Sircakez but didn't say how they did, but Pooky said they had essentially claimed cop and anyone would kill them in their position. So why did Pooky insist that he would never kill COP FB in 20,000 years after he was shot for clearing someone? It's because he felt like he needed to shore his own position up with self-meta when it *didn't make any sense to do so given Fb's role* given Pooky presumed he was cop or something.
4. Um. You get made fun of regularly for not bussing your partners. You recently broke meta by bussing Dunnstrall. Your busses this game outside of shooting Gyphx were blank "Vote scum partner" that had zero weight or reasoning attached to these votes. These were votes that convince no one to follow you.
5. Nobody said you were Petapan? So, I don't know what you're getting at. Er, and yet here you are steadily getting fake angrier in an attempt to win by making other player's uncomfortable voting you in case the anger is real and it gets directed toward them.
6. This is my town game tho. I keep saying this and it's true. I am obvious town and I say that a lot *when I'm actually town* and I have a lot of games backing that up and my reaction to it. This is why I posted the Grayice post which noted how obnoxious this is of me to do. You're pretty much doing the same thing here. But I already put this under "Pooky, politescum variant, choosing ethical arguments rather than choosing to solve #2"
7. Yes! I'm that bad at scum because I keep losing! If it were something I could fix easily I would've fixed it by now! Also, are...are you saying this is a token change? Because this contradicts a whole bunch of posts you made early and mid game, and even in elo. *psyduck*
8. Woah there. every post I make is townie shit because I'm town, so every post I make is a town post.
9. Uh, I don't actually think this is the case. I even have games of being fake angry at people as scum. Though my approach to that anger is entirely different to how I use my anger here is more nuanced (I think) than how I use it as scum which is less comple.
10. Um. I jumped on Gyphx first. I defended a bunch of players and made cases for them. I had some actual solving before elo? So did Notty? This isn't the first time I've used the I'm town so every post I make is town argument as town even.
11. Uh, are there good reasons to town read anyone. Most cases aren't rigorously good. This is why I like the replaceout argument because it *is* rigorously good.
12. Um. No pretty sure according to you I pretended to solve for Mastina first as a song and dance but I was only pretending to solve there before pretending to solve for Ralts, Imaginality, etc nd their motivations before getting to trying to solve for you. This is a notable contrast to you *who never even pretended to solve* and pretty much went sure we were town and that Koba was scum, to being sure that we were scum and Mastina is town with nothing inbetween point A and point B.
13. Caught for the wrong reasons. I'll do better next time. But I'm happy you agree that you're scum for Notty's arguments and are ignoring those in this giant heap of a wifom argument and never addressing Mastina getting killed or how *actually insane* your argument was for why we killed her.
14. You keep saying I'm sucking up to Sircakez, when it's pretty clear that, this is what you've been doing, >.> All game. I already explained my emotional path through this game. Something you aren't directly addressing but instead making appeals to the stone arguments, an informal logical fallacy.
15. It's a good thing I'm town nd have infinite enthusiasm so I've been enjoying myself pretty much throughout this whole ordeal, except for the times I got *super* frustrated at SC, Titus and you. Overall I've had a good time I think. I like being town and got to do town stufff this game, so I can't complain. Also this back and forth has been pretty fun in some ways. Though I'm not sure I'm learning much given I don't really like how you're choosing to argue as scum.
16. No you haven't done everything possible to bring this home for the town. that was us, throwing every conceivable argument at you which you've spent destroying. You've primarily focused on deconstructing my slf-aare AtE than showing why we're scum. You even asked if there's a good reason to town read me, when *you* town read me most of the game, which means you didn't have a reason to town read me in the first place, which points to scum you *again* and also shows that you weren't hunting *again* because otherwise you would be familiar with what I've done and haven't done that would make me look town or scum like. Also It's easier to destroy than create.
17. You keep fake acting mad.
18. "I don't care about winning" "I have done everything humanly possible to bring home this game for the town" Um. You seemed to be having a lot of fun open wolfing at the start. Remember the good times Pooky.

-Bell

[Milobird]

You've demonstrated a willingnss to change and a capability to change recently, while I haven't. This would also be a major change for me given one of my weaknesses is an inability to make personal or professional sacrifices for my scum games, activity, issues, etc.

So like, something changed for you. Because you played different recently and you played different here. Though I think you gave away a bunch more clues that you were scum this game.
But you were still role blocked and your argument to the contrary isn't very good. Imo.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Uh, also fake solving.
And a million other things I'm bad at as scum.

-Bell

[Milobird]

There actually is stuff between point A and point B, in that Koba flipped. That was shoddy reasoning on my part and it's 2AM so I have a cool and good excuse for it. What I meant is there wasn't much like a process or natural transition Pooky just went from A to B to C because it was the most direct path to victory.

Also Pooky kept insisting that the role block thing had already been settled even after Sircakez and Titus showed unfamiliarity with the topic showing his argument to be false. So that's dishonest of him. which adds into the Pooky is dishonest scum that never admits fault on his own angle. He also didn't have any confidence or interest in explaining what happened to you guys and allowing you to figure it out yourself.
Nor has he brought up any self-meta that would be inconvenient to him. Please note how honest I've been and how I've been much more willing to present my arguments as flawed than Pooky has.

-Bell

[Milobird]

I think in the future, I'm just gunna keep on arguing for people to cross vote each other. I'm not really digging this "I must convince this guy that the player I know now is scum, is scum"
I'd have had a much more fun time figuring out whether it was Mastina or Pooky than this. Though, it was clear which way I was leaning. It still would have been a pleasant exercise.
Then again. I did do that. But I've now spent significantly more time arguing that scum is scum than I have solving for scum.
Rip.

-Bell

[Milobird]

Two things

1) Good luck cakeboy

2) let’s take a look at things that would be true if we were mafia here-
We chose to ultimately waste an extra kill when down three players despite fully understanding how a role works instead of shooting at the already claimed rolestopper or any of the confirmed town.

[Milobird]

Nah, I’m just forcing your hand to make you try and play the “ignore the mech” game

Seems to be working! And you have YET to provide a sufficient response