Mini 2084: Pokemon Ruby Mafia - Game Over

[Klick]

How about this: you're both town because neither of you are considering the fact that scum have day talk.

[RedPanda]

what is that possiible in games with night?

[EspressoPatronum]

@Klick. My notes are in

this colour

.
TL;DR:
1. I had a scumread on Cinnamon
2. I firmly believe Mena is town
3. Mena thinks Cinna/Gamma is scum

Therefore, vote with Mena against Cinn/Gamma.

Spoiler:

I like creature and Tim rn.

VOTE: EspressoPatronum

I'm cool with this right now.

weird that Cinnamon is being this vague out of RVS, and couching both of these with "right now"s as mentioned by someone else

Agreed. DP brought this up first, but I agree nonetheless

Choo choo

Don’t you mean...

Pika-choo choo?

this is also out of character -- I don't think I've seen Cinn fluffpost or make jokes outside of RVS at all. he's normally much more focused and serious throughout. I think this is him trying to be lighthearted in order to show how towny he is only it doesn't work

I also dislike when people pull away from the game. Mena adding a meta read to this gave me reason to look into the behaviour more.

Tim, on the other hand then do you have any townreads?

looking for reads from someone who was coming off as super towny rather than trying to actively solve himself, again, this doesn't fit with prior play

Can you share why/how you got to your scumread of me? As it stands, it looks like it's either a bandwagon read or an OMGUS.

Honestly? You're right. Sorry. I signed up for too many games and I've always been more miserable in games outside of Newbie queue. I hate being in the dark about reads. Your posting has actually been p towny and I OMGUS'd out of annoyance.

Thanks for the honesty. If you find the time over the next few days, can you drop a quick post on people who feel the most scummy? We can @ you with specifics from there.

UNVOTE:

Got my sights set on URAP and Cinnamon now. Hoping to see more content from them tomorrow.

I'm not really sure what more content you want to see right now. It's kind of weird that you say that when I've posted my reads and you haven't interacted with them at all.

This post seemed scummy to me. I believe I highlighted it on D1 + tried to bring Cinnamon into a more proactive role. Mena scumreads this post for different reasons:

Cinn normally pushes back super hard against anyone scumreading him as town. the fact that his response is so tempered here makes me think this is him drawing scum and not wanting to pull attention, especially as last game together he got widely scumread and only narrowly avoided being mislynched (in no small part because I correctly TR him for this behaviour and pushed back against those gunning for his lynch super hard)

Tim or anybody else townreading Ep rn could you explain your EP townread?

again, soliciting information rather than building cases

Cinn does ask questions a lot as town but the fact that he seemed like he was just focusing on Tim defo could have been a pocket attempt from where I'm sitting

it also just seems more forced than his more freeball questions in the games I've played with him, making me think he's trying to copy his town play but it doesn't come across as genuine

This part is meh for me. The other stuff was stronger.

By engage, I mean something I can respond to, whether that's a question or a discussion point. You responded to my post sure but there's not much in that post that I felt was worth responding to and then you post that you want to hear more from me. That's the vague 'pushing for lurking' sentiment that I felt.

Instead of a 'I want to hear more' I feel like town is more inclined to have questions to ask about my position so far or what I've said

this is just more of him being way softer on someone scumming him (EP) compared to what's normal behaviour for town!Cinn

Read like the first 4 pages and have some opinions already

this feels like it's a v plausible fake after reading through everything, seeing pressure on his slot, and then posting this to talk about how he wasn't trying to obv!town bc he didn't know his slot was being pressured

also can't remember the numbers but wasn't Cinn pressure starting around p4? need to check that

I played pokemon red when it came out. it was okay

haven't touched the stuff since

but making animals fight each other is cruel. did you know that millennials who consider themselves pokemon fans are less likely to think dog fighting is wrong than those who don't? yeah, that's some messed up stuff, huh?

If you don't like the games and are going to bash others for liking them like this, get the fuck out now. I'm not gonna tolerate this at all. Also, where is your evidence for the dog fighting claim?

this felt v aggressive unneccesarily and like setting up a reason to go after urap!slot (aka me) later which did then happen, but he can talk it off by lacing it as being about Pokemon (as we see later)

I don't have a ton of forum experience, but from the 4 or so games I've played (2 off-site btw), faked aggression seems to be an easy out for scum.

Interested to hear some thoughts from the following people:

u r a person 2
Lil Uzi Vert
Cinnamon
ClearlyClarity

Lurker scum can be pretty dangerous. These four haven't posted much yet.

At this point feeling Espresso is town. Liking their instincts.

I think espresso seems scummy early game but is just mislynch bait -- to actually read him as town (or as town without mentioning that the reason for it is that he seems super mislynch-y) is weird and pocketing

Tough to tell on this one bcz he replaced in after Tim's push on me. The pocketing note is the big one here. Most (if not all?) of Gamma's posts regarding me were supportive or town-leaning. I think this influenced my read on him to decide that his slot was town.

Choo choo

Don’t you mean...

Pika-choo choo?

Pikachu is town and I’m not seeing any non-RVS reasoning for his wagon tbh

Call me back when something cool happens.

This isn't good imo

think this is him seeing that CC is a good potential slot that also replaced out and deciding that pushing there will make him look town

also CC is an easy push because she hasn't done anything towny but equally hasn't done anything scummy, so it's a great way to look like he's productive while not focusing on any of the important players and whether or not they're town

{TG, CC, EP} is a good starting ground

What about CC's posting was town?

more of this

Call me back when something cool happens.

Kk, so you have DP as town. Any scumreads?

You made your vote in Klick in RVS. Do you still agree with your vote? Why/why not?

By "something cool" I don't mean "interrogate me because I'm on your arbitrary lurker prodlist" but w/e.

You're my biggest scumread rn. Klick is like... muddled. 105 was kinda bad but they actually try to scumhunt, even if misguided or reaction-testy.

My problem with CC is that they were kinda coasting by and were acting like they weren't the reason the game is slow.

and more of going after CC for just slow playing, I don't think she ever made claims that the game being slow wasn't to do with her, so this is misrepping

dang

i feel like both CC and EP are pretty hard town after that last interaction

like i guess CC might just be playing super well but i think i'm pretty happy clearing them both.

I can actually understand this given the previous post by CC

backing off it but he's created some susp on that slot to come back to if his other desired push (urap!slot aka me) doesn't come off

I don't rly agree here.

cinnamon and cc are scum. Will post in sometime.

Now that I've come around on CC I don't like this post, feels like targeting LHF lurkers

RP is correctly SRing Cinn so there's a pushback here in the same way that he'll do to me when I correctly SR Cinn on my entrance

I was pretty sure RP was scum at this point in the game, so I wasn't giving his posts a ton of weight. I would't have noticed this without Mena's point

I was waiting for both cinnamon and clearity reactions to my post to vote for the scummier one but since clearity is ignoring this game, I'm forced to choose.

I don't like that cinnamon ignored my post. Seems like cinnamon is scared of a back and forth that might happen.

Vote cinnamon

Still wanna hold to this push now that they've replaced out?

this is a weird way to try and deflect pressure

I'm trying to learn everyone's name before pushing anyone

...ok. How is this coming?

VOTE: Pink Ball
Their last post doesn't mesh with their activity level or what I feel like their personality is

I think the last two are distancing probs

That's a pretty bad entrance?

Also I spoke to cinnamon unrelated to this game and he had a family member in the hospital; you're kind of pushy about this Cinnamon didn't siteflake thing.

But he didn’t though? Didn’t know about the family in hospital thing and I’m sorry to hear it but doesn’t change the fact that he didn’t

Yeah you're coming off as irl scum so really back this the fuck up

hyper aggressive overreaction

clearly my arguments on Cinn aren't being accepted at this point and I wasn't getting much traction

This is a big point in favour of my read on Mena. He was pushing on Cinnamon/Gamma from the outset, even though it caused a lot of people to scumread him. It would have been easier to pick a more lynchable target and blend in as town.

why freak out like this? bc gamma is scum and he knows I've got him, and probs pissed off that it isn't even bc of his play but bc of the play from Cinn beforehand

I’ve played with Cinn before and there’s no way that slot is town lol

Where did I say “Cinn never does C as town”? I’m saying that I think Cinn was playing completely out of character here from what I know of him, and I’ve read some of his meta and think it seems off for that too

The whole family thing does throw me off a bit, but I also think it makes total sense for Gamma to come in and try to be as obv town as possible as the cinn!slot was getting somewhat scumread when he entered the game

I wasn't trying to obvtown I was trying to revive a game I perceived as stalled

the lack of contribution (just vaguely hitting at my slot, painting CC as potential scum which was easy) means this doesn't hold up

I’ve played with Cinn before and there’s no way that slot is town lol

Where did I say “Cinn never does C as town”? I’m saying that I think Cinn was playing completely out of character here from what I know of him, and I’ve read some of his meta and think it seems off for that too

The whole family thing does throw me off a bit, but I also think it makes total sense for Gamma to come in and try to be as obv town as possible as the cinn!slot was getting somewhat scumread when he entered the game

So Cinnamon playing out of character is enough to call him obvscum, but you say to not judge you off your own obvtown game you had? Not buying it.
VOTE: Menalque

I now have two town games although admittedly I couldn't talk about it at the time -- but could easily have looked at my user and read a bit of that game where I was also p obv town based on flips by this point and my play in that game is much more similar to here

There is someone in this game who can vouch for me being good at detecting scum town!faking after pressure versus genuine town

Also I noted I read only the first few pages as soon as I entered so what makes you think I felt I was under pressure?

easy, I think you're lying about only reading the first few pages as you entered

K

zzzz

Yaaaaay

LOLOLOLOL

TIM IS RC.

So does this reinforce you opinion about Tim?

i don't know what it makes me think

Ok

contributing nothing but looking active

I caught scum last game for this same behaviour

Agreed. It's also hedgy.

Hey look at that, everyone's scumreading me, that means even my partners agree I should be wagoned

This feels so trite

think this light interaction is distancing

note that gamma never votes pink

I feel like historically I've been a shit ton of games where I was the only one who scumread someone playing hyper aggressively and I usually ended up being right
I think that -oh that confidence is towny- isn't good logic here. scum would need to do something big with this entrance with how tight the PoE pool already is. this is a situation to make a push like that.

why not apply this to gamma?

I wasn't hyper aggressive though, just hyper active
Did you see me go for someone's neck out of the gate?

yeah I saw you be hyper aggro on urap

then go in on the CC slot

even if your phrasing was calmer the intention was there

That was essentially gatekeeping

convenient excuse when pressed

less convincing given how you jumped on me which is the same slot

I could see that
Anything else? About yourself or anyone else

Could you expand?

asking Qs but not really advancing the game in a solve-y way

Be more specific

I want know what is informing some of your reads rn, I'll say Creature Tim and Espresso for now

I started calling people attention and wanted to analyze whoever called me scum at the begining of the game, then see what their intentions could be. People who didn't call me scum at the begining didn't deserve analysis.

Creature because of the way he started posting. There was no need for his classic bullet posting shenanigans at the begining of the game but he did it anyways so I think he wasn't trying to look town but instead just being town.

Tim because when he's scum he waits for me to call him scum before calling me scum 'cause he knows that's the best way to disengage with me 'cause I don't like being called scum when I'm town. He scumread me before I said my read on him so he genuinely thinks I'm scum and there's no agenda behind. He knows I'm not an easy mislynch so he would've tried to push a wagon on me already instead of leaving me for later.

Espresso I can't recall but I think it was solely because he called me scum at the right time.

That's why LUV is scum too by the way, he townread me for my tone when there was starting to be some consensus on me being scum. That kind of "hot takes" without explanation are just to look good in case I get lynched.

That works, I don't feel like lynching PB at this point because this is pretty good and I want yo give him a chance to contribute later

so -- distancing. he's talking about how PB is scummy but shouldn't be lynched while also never putting a vote there or seriously pushing it

we all see how this is distancing yeah?

how r we doing distancing from each other? do u think they believe it?

woops wrong thread.

zzzz
VOTE: Firebringer

hops on the FB wagon at a convenient time to make sure the mislynch goes through

also why not more concern that PB -- who you were scumming -- was on that wagon

Good point.

Did Menalque post that case at all, if not at this point he should probably be lynched

yeah being lazy is a good reason to lynch someone, sure

[EspressoPatronum]

How about this: you're both town because neither of you are considering the fact that scum have day talk.

Tbf, that's a pretty easy "townslip" to fake.

[RedPanda]

unvote

[Pink Ball]

I agree with DP here Klick's push seems to be pretty bad. I don't think their reasons for pushing Pikachu are good at all.

We know DP is town, so here, Cinnamon took an early stance onto defending a player who was, at that time, being one of the first pushes in the game. This defense and stance looks good in retrospective thanks to new info we got.

I have a bit of an EP scumread here. Their response to 67 and not 68 kind of suggests that they're trying to get Tim on their side, or at least take the spotlight off them. While it's not scum indicative to push on lurkers it's an easy way to generate a read as scum and it also helps bring attention to other players when he's getting pushed.

Again, we know Tim is town, so another good post in retrospective, and his logic makes sense from a town PoV: "I don't like the way you're trying to derail the attention on you by calling out a lurker".

I like creature and Tim rn.

Again, Tim is town, and I'm townreading Creature.

VOTE: EspressoPatronum

I'm cool with this right now.

Consistent vote.

This is the sort of 'I'm pushing on you for lurking' without actually asking about the things that I've said that make me feel a bit uneasy about you since this type of push would be easy to do as scum.

And here and on he starts engaging with EP because of EP's scumread on him. Two things to say about this: one, is that I agree 100% with Cinnamon, the push from EP felt unfounded and if I were Cinnamon, I would've been frustrated with that push too; and two, is that if Cinnamon was scum, I think his reaction would've been different. Instead of answering with frustration everything EP said, I think he would've tried to engage with other players or at least try to look more comprehensive about EP's push on him, but that wasn't the case. He got in a 1v1 and he couldn't get out.

So there you have it, EP. I initially thought you were scum in those interactions but I changed my mind mid D1 because of your reaction of my scumread on you, and Tim had a solid townread on you so I trusted it. I think you're just plain wrong and you'll be the next lynch after Gamma flips town, so I'd rather lynch somewhere else instead of getting both of you lynched. I think that's what RP is trying to do, but then again, I don't think a scumplayer would be so vocal on doing such an obvious scum strategy. They're letting RP do the dirty job.

[Pink Ball]

Yep, I'm all clear: today's lynch, brought to you by your lovely host Pink Ball, is between ofrhz and Chemist! *cheers*

[Klick]

All private threads that exist for this game will be open for day talk.

I agree that it's easy to fake, but it's difficult to make it look real and the odds of it being picked up on are rather low.

PEdit: Much, much happier with ofrhz between those two choices.

[Gamma Emerald]

I agree with DP here Klick's push seems to be pretty bad. I don't think their reasons for pushing Pikachu are good at all.

We know DP is town, so here, Cinnamon took an early stance onto defending a player who was, at that time, being one of the first pushes in the game. This defense and stance looks good in retrospective thanks to new info we got.

I have a bit of an EP scumread here. Their response to 67 and not 68 kind of suggests that they're trying to get Tim on their side, or at least take the spotlight off them. While it's not scum indicative to push on lurkers it's an easy way to generate a read as scum and it also helps bring attention to other players when he's getting pushed.

Again, we know Tim is town, so another good post in retrospective, and his logic makes sense from a town PoV: "I don't like the way you're trying to derail the attention on you by calling out a lurker".

I like creature and Tim rn.

Again, Tim is town, and I'm townreading Creature.

VOTE: EspressoPatronum

I'm cool with this right now.

Consistent vote.

This is the sort of 'I'm pushing on you for lurking' without actually asking about the things that I've said that make me feel a bit uneasy about you since this type of push would be easy to do as scum.

And here and on he starts engaging with EP because of EP's scumread on him. Two things to say about this: one, is that I agree 100% with Cinnamon, the push from EP felt unfounded and if I were Cinnamon, I would've been frustrated with that push too; and two, is that if Cinnamon was scum, I think his reaction would've been different. Instead of answering with frustration everything EP said, I think he would've tried to engage with other players or at least try to look more comprehensive about EP's push on him, but that wasn't the case. He got in a 1v1 and he couldn't get out.

So there you have it, EP. I initially thought you were scum in those interactions but I changed my mind mid D1 because of your reaction of my scumread on you, and Tim had a solid townread on you so I trusted it. I think you're just plain wrong and you'll be the next lynch after Gamma flips town, so I'd rather lynch somewhere else instead of getting both of you lynched. I think that's what RP is trying to do, but then again, I don't think a scumplayer would be so vocal on doing such an obvious scum strategy. They're letting RP do the dirty job.

...

[Gamma Emerald]

Yep, I'm all clear: today's lynch, brought to you by your lovely host Pink Ball, is between ofrhz and Chemist! *cheers*

No

[Pink Ball]

Yeah Klick I now you don't want Chemist lynched but that makes me want to lynch Chemist even more

[Pink Ball]

What the fuck Gamma I make a solid case on why your slot is town and you go "..." ????

[RedPanda]

I'm going to bed now. I have to reread this game now.

[Gamma Emerald]

It feels like took my "me and Menalque both town" argument, changed Menalque to EP, and tried to pass it off as your own thing

[Gamma Emerald]

@PB

[Pink Ball]

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't think your post is original ok

[Pink Ball]

You know what I'm locking myself in on this hunch: I think Menalque is town and our dichotomy is a TvT. The level of unwillingness to change the course of things tells me scum have 2 mislynches lined up easy. Obviously this points to RP but Chemist and EP are also worth looking at currently. Beyond that I'm going to poke into the wagon shifting weirdness I noted earlier.

You mean this??? I think you read what you wanted to read there just because you're scumreading EP. My read on your slot, pretty easy to read in that case post I just did, is independent of my EP's read, which it can be read in that exact same post. I never said it was a TvT, I said I was townreading both of those slots, which they happened to be scumreading each other. Take the fucking townread I'm giving to your slot to save it and don't mix it with your read on EP, it has nothing to do with it.

[Klick]

Yeah Klick I now you don't want Chemist lynched but that makes me want to lynch Chemist even more

But my reasoning is pretty solid!
If you're worried about me being Chemist's buddy that much why not consider me part of the lynch pool?

[Pink Ball]

So just to follow your logic: you call a 1v1 a TvT, you THINK I call a 1v1 a TvT and my argument is not original because you called a TvT first? LOL

[Gamma Emerald]

You know what I'm locking myself in on this hunch: I think Menalque is town and our dichotomy is a TvT. The level of unwillingness to change the course of things tells me scum have 2 mislynches lined up easy. Obviously this points to RP but Chemist and EP are also worth looking at currently. Beyond that I'm going to poke into the wagon shifting weirdness I noted earlier.

You mean this??? I think you read what you wanted to read there just because you're scumreading EP. My read on your slot, pretty easy to read in that case post I just did, is independent of my EP's read, which it can be read in that exact same post. I never said it was a TvT, I said I was townreading both of those slots, which they happened to be scumreading each other. Take the fucking townread I'm giving to your slot to save it and don't mix it with your read on EP, it has nothing to do with it.

Maybe I read into the lines to much but the way you were addressing EP made it seem that way

[Pink Ball]

Yeah Klick I now you don't want Chemist lynched but that makes me want to lynch Chemist even more

But my reasoning is pretty solid!
If you're worried about me being Chemist's buddy that much why not consider me part of the lynch pool?

'cause I'm not an egotistical maniac who thinks his reads are infallible and I would rather be wrong on Chemist than you 'cause at least you're being helpful (in other words, if Chemist flips town, we lose less than if you flip town).

But I'm all for lynching ofrhz too so let's see how it goes.

[Pink Ball]

@Gamma EP asked me why I thought Cinnamon's ISO was town because he thought he was scummy, so I was addressing him directly. I said that I agreed 100% with Cinnamon in that 1v1, but that didn't mean I was scumreading him as Cinnamon was. That's all.

[EspressoPatronum]

Gamma is town. Just read Cinnamon's ISO. RP, untunnel mode activate!

Can you point me to Cinnamon's town posts? I thought his ISO was scummy.

I agree with DP here Klick's push seems to be pretty bad. I don't think their reasons for pushing Pikachu are good at all.

We know DP is town, so here, Cinnamon took an early stance onto defending a player who was, at that time, being one of the first pushes in the game. This defense and stance looks good in retrospective thanks to new info we got.

I have a bit of an EP scumread here. Their response to 67 and not 68 kind of suggests that they're trying to get Tim on their side, or at least take the spotlight off them. While it's not scum indicative to push on lurkers it's an easy way to generate a read as scum and it also helps bring attention to other players when he's getting pushed.

Again, we know Tim is town, so another good post in retrospective, and his logic makes sense from a town PoV: "I don't like the way you're trying to derail the attention on you by calling out a lurker".

I like creature and Tim rn.

Again, Tim is town, and I'm townreading Creature.

VOTE: EspressoPatronum

I'm cool with this right now.

Consistent vote.

This is the sort of 'I'm pushing on you for lurking' without actually asking about the things that I've said that make me feel a bit uneasy about you since this type of push would be easy to do as scum.

And here and on he starts engaging with EP because of EP's scumread on him. Two things to say about this: one, is that I agree 100% with Cinnamon, the push from EP felt unfounded and if I were Cinnamon, I would've been frustrated with that push too; and two, is that if Cinnamon was scum, I think his reaction would've been different. Instead of answering with frustration everything EP said, I think he would've tried to engage with other players or at least try to look more comprehensive about EP's push on him, but that wasn't the case. He got in a 1v1 and he couldn't get out.

So there you have it, EP. I initially thought you were scum in those interactions but I changed my mind mid D1 because of your reaction of my scumread on you, and Tim had a solid townread on you so I trusted it. I think you're just plain wrong and you'll be the next lynch after Gamma flips town, so I'd rather lynch somewhere else instead of getting both of you lynched. I think that's what RP is trying to do, but then again, I don't think a scumplayer would be so vocal on doing such an obvious scum strategy. They're letting RP do the dirty job.

Thanks, @PB.

[EspressoPatronum]

Oh whups, I meant to spoiler that.