Mini 1348- Dragon Ball Z: Saiyan Saga Mafia (Game Over)

[PeregrineV]

You are telling me to make a town case on myself, which is the opposite of scumhunting.

The entire game is made up of reads stemming from other peoples posts.

No I was asking you to actually show you were looking for scum (that's how you prove you are Town). Nice twist attempt.

And another twist. Every one of your reads is not based on anything you post but other people's opinions. You don't want to commit to Syndrome being Town yourself ... you want to base it on BK's logic. Your Benmage vote was based on my meta posts as opposed to points you made yourself. So again ... you aren't generating your own reads but looking to have a scape-goat if they are bad.

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I guess asking questions, asking for explanations of reads, etc isn't really scumhunting. Imagine that.

But asking/accusing you results in a huge overreaction, so scumhunting everyone, except you, is fine.
Pointing out behavior that conflicts with your confirmed town behavior is a huge scumtell for me, isn't it?
BTW, you still haven't provided those games. And I'm not asking anymore (because asking=scummy, right?).

Share or not share your syndrome read, but don't expect a blanket "OK" from me. I think syndrome is probably scum. And one of you, Johnny, or BK is with him.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I guess asking questions, asking for explanations of reads, etc isn't really scumhunting. Imagine that.

But asking/accusing you results in a huge overreaction, so scumhunting everyone, except you, is fine.
Pointing out behavior that conflicts with your confirmed town behavior is a huge scumtell for me, isn't it?
BTW, you still haven't provided those games. And I'm not asking anymore (because asking=scummy, right?).

Share or not share your syndrome read, but don't expect a blanket "OK" from me. I think syndrome is probably scum. And one of you, Johnny, or BK is with him.

I've already shared my reasons for Syndrome Town. Pretending I didn't is ludicrous. You've softly handwaved that they aren't valid in other post while not addressing them specificlly

Hey why aren't you voting Johnny if you think he is scum? Because that is the only counter-wagon to you likely to go through.

Again for the the umpteenth time ... you've taken a single line out of context from a completely different game and attempted to say it applies to a situation here while it does not. Continuing to hammer at that like it is meaningful is just sad.

Why did you only address a few of my issues? Why are BK and I scum for 'dodging' when you yourself repeatedly did it today?

I know it's hard to fake scum-hunting as scum. It results in you cherry-picking arguments you think you might net you mislynches.

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[MagnaofIllusion]

And everyone disappears for 4 hours ....

MOD - I am V/LA with no expected internet access from now until Saturday the 12th.

I see no reason to shift my vote back to Johnny given that no-one has bothered to post since my last.

[pappums rat]

MagnaofIllusion's V/LA is noted.

Toro has recieved his second prod.

[Toro]

WARNING: BIG WALL

MoI has me on edge. His back and forth with Thor at the end of yesterday had me thinking one of them was scum, and I was dumb enough to hammer Thor before giving it much thought. However, he's also the most proactive and (from what I've seen) intelligent player alive and we can actually afford a mislynch, so I'm not going to pay too much attention to my scumvibes from him right now. It's probably just paranoia mixed with OMGUS for the vote earlier.

Probably?

Yes.

If you have scumvibes on him then voice them.

Guille should kill Toro right now. I'm pretty sure Toro is scum, if only for the fact that he's attacking the easy target (me), but more recent play is full of weird little scummy things. Calling out BK who's pretty obvious town, refusing to nameclaim, things like that. I think we'd be better off without him. That would also confirm Guille and bring our potential scum pool down to myself(notscum), Syndrome, PV, and MoI.

"I think we'd be better off without him."

--- So what you're saying is you're really not sure that I'm scum but essentially you just want me gone period regardless of alignment. How would my town flip confirm Guille? Your scum pool seems awfully large post-lynch, with me gone that'd leave six players left in the game, with four players left on your scum list left. I find it strange you left yourself in the scum pool.

Yes, I'm saying I'm not sure that you're scum. I haven't read the whole game (as I've said) but you seem the scummiest. Add to that the fact that everyone has taken some sort of stance on you and you've got a nice probably-scum-but-definitely-information-giving lynch.

And what possible info could you gain out of my lynch?

Refusing a name claim, thinking BK is scum, thinking yates was town, thinking I was scum, thinking mcqueen was scum, putting me at l-2 at the beginning of today.

These are all reasons I think Toro is scum. Now your turn, why is he town?

P-edit: A_I wasn't playing well, so I have no desire to analyze his play,.

A. Refusing a name claim. --- False, I was trying to go with quid pro quo but realized "Ah fuck it" and just did it so I could quit having MoI pester me to do it.
B. BK is scum --- So for thinking his interaction with your wagon seemed scummy = me being scum?
C. Yates was town --- This makes me scum? PV thought he was scum, does this automatically equate to PV being scum? Slandaar didn't have his vote on him and he was one of the stronger town players.

YOU ALSO DIDN'T HAVE YOUR VOTE ON YATES AND YOU DID NOT THINK HE WAS SCUMMY EITHER.

So if I'm scum for not thinking he was scum, how are you

not scum

for not thinking he was scum?
D. Thinking mcqueen was scum --- This makes me scum? See above, PV thought he was scum as well. His play wasn't town-like when I made my accusation towards him.
E. Thinking you were scum --- Clear OMGUS.
F. Putting you to L-2 today --- Another example of OMGUS, however this itself is not scummy unless you feel as if the pressure was going to be quickly applied on to you...as if you're guilty.

If this is your actual case against me it's full of holes.

A. You did though. Just because you broke down and did it under pressure doesn't change the fact that you initially refused.[/quote]

I was bound to do it anyway.

You seem to be implying that I was completely refusing to nameclaim.

B. It does when BK is so obviously town

And again, at that period in time my scum detector made me a bit suspicious of him rushing to your defense at L-2. ...is that a reason why he is 'obviously town' in your eyes? Because he became rushing to your aid?

C. I didn't think he was scum either, but I know I'm town. Doesn't change the fact that he may have had a scumbuddy (you) that wanted to protect him.

Ah yes, the classic "I know I'm town, so the double standard doesn't apply to me." Funny how your second sentence completely clashes with your first sentence. You're again trying to push your own bad logic onto me when you are just as guilty.

D. It's part of my reason for voting. I don't care if no one else can confirm. You're gunning for another town player right now.

Am I?

E. Putting me in a position to get quickhammered without waiting for my defense? Really?

You were not going to get quick-hammered at L-2.

Quite the paranoid one aren't we?

Fine with a Toro lynch.

Intent to vote.

Why do you have to declare intent to vote?

*sigh*

I'm not putting you in a position to be quickhammered because there is a chance that you're town and I don't want to make another large mistake.

Only Syndrome had my vote at that point in time. I would have been at L-2.

So then what's the point of you even voting for anyone then if anyone has the potential to be town?

I think you might be misreading ... I mean nothing in Yate's ISO gives me any reason to not lynch Johnny.

I also have an issue with "Intent to vote Toro". Why is he not voting his scum suspect at this juncture?

Personally I believe that after his 'oopsy-daisies I'm so sorry for killing you' moment with Thor he's trying to appear extra careful. Which is ridiculous, I only have one vote on me.

And mine would make it L-2. The game is too close for that right now and I'd rather not be responsible for putting the town in a precarious position.

Again,

L-2

we are at 7 players right now, we'd be perfectly fine.

No, I said intent to vote because I have no intent of re reading and I don't wanna mess up the game for the.rest of you.

So you're practically admitting to just sitting on the sidelines because "you don't wanna mess it up for us"...yep, you're scum.

I'm not sitting on the sidelines. I'm making my position clearly known without putting the game in danger.

Again by 'putting the game in danger' you mean voting. So you

are

sitting on the sidelines.

Oh and you shouldn't put me at L-1 because Im town and mislynching is bad.

Bad defense is bad.

Only one I got.

Then to the gallows you go.

Regarding Guille's gambit, why would you expect Mafia to kill you tonight's night phase? Everyone was calling on you to use your ability today so you would probably have to come clean about your ability sooner rather than later. I'm not really understanding the point of the bluff.

Now, no. The gambit would have worked if (as per originally agreed) the shot was taken tomorrow. I telegraphed who I was going to shoot, so mafia will know if they were in danger or not. If they were in danger, they would kill me. If not, they'd let me live. Regardless, mafia benefited from me not shooting today and waiting for tomorrow. Take a look at those that did support waiting for tomorrow. If I recall, you did not mention anything for that matter. That's why I said that I was convinced that you were scum.

I did not mention anything because I've been having a bit of trouble keeping my head afloat in this game, now that I feel that I'm back on top of things is why you didn't get an answer from me originally. Personally I would have rather you shoot today, because if you hit town then we can No Lynch, clear you as a townie because Scum wouldn't go after a now VT role, and then figure it out in LyLo with three remaining scum candidates left.

Given that Johnny and Syndrome claimed Mr. Popo and Chi-Chi respectively are you willing to vote for either of them?

Regarding possible Dayvig roles, I can't see Gohan being one. What makes you think Saiyan-Saga Gohan could be a Day-Vig? Piccolo I logically see since he's the one who killed Raditz.

On the name claim? Absolutely not. The reason I would have lynched Guile for claiming one of those names is due to his Dayvig claim and the flavor we have seen so far. I’m not ever lynching Syndrome because he is Town and my vote for Johnny is based on his play not his name-claim.

Ah, I getcha.

As an aside – Gohan can certainly work as a Dayvig. His explosion of power is the reason Radditz was damaged enough that Piccolo could activate his Beam Cannon and kill him. Additionally his transformation into the Oozaru at the end of the saga was the only reason Vegeta was defeated (he crushed him).

The thing is though, Piccolo is the one that actually

killed

Radditz...Gohan's mere burst of power may have weakened him yes but Piccolo's the one who delivered the final blow. Your Oozaru theory I can not see working as a Vig role, more like a 1S RB role.

I think the scum team is PV and Toro. Could be PV and Syndrome, but I'm pretty sure on PV.

Why could it be me?

You should vote Syndrome if you think it's him.

And why not Johnny? You've seen all of our reasons, why not refute any of them if you disagree?

I would like to see this as well. (The refute our cases part)

Syndrome, you've only actually contributed when talking about me and Toro. Since I sort of understand suspicion of me and really understand the suspicion on Toro, I really don't know what to think of you. So I would like you to post more.

And now you target me with the same accusation that others have used. I get it. I should vote. But, I'm not going to until we all agree (or mostly agree) that he's the right lynch today. If that gets me killed, hopefully you'll know the right way to go tomorrow after I flip town.

My bet is officially Toro and Syndrome. Call it gut.

Another OMGUS 'gut' case.

You might be right.

Can you give me the links to your last 5 scum games? Please.

This is your response to my pointed accusations? That I might be right you are scum?

@Everyone else

- FTR if another vote moves to Peregrine I may consider moving from Johnny to him at this stage.

Why do you keep asking me to do legwork for you when I clearly am not going to? I am officially saying "NO, GO JUMP IN A RIVER I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU WANT ME TO DO SINCE I THINK YOU STAND A GOOD CHANCE OF BEING SCUM".

As I stated in D3, my former town read on PV started to slip (I have to find my exact post where I said it)...I'm going to go back and review his interactions with Johnny/Syndrome and then if I find any connection I'll declare intent to hammer. Now that BK's back on my town side that leaves PV as my #3 scum read.

Whelp, being nice seems to be getting me nowhere.

VOTE: Toro

Since I wasn't hammered I assume one or two scum were on my wagon.

So that whole "I'm just going to sit here, twiddle my thumbs, and not meddle in anyone's business." Was BS?

And he's not voting me because he's probably also scum and doesn't want to be responsible for my death.

P-Edit - I admitted that I was lurking. Not scum.

Or maybe, just maybe...he's distancing from you. PV's moving up to my #2 now.

I have to go to work now. If I die soon I'd say with some confidence that the final scum team is, in fact, PV and Toro (despite MoI's really intense albeit probably deserved push for my death) with a small chance that Syndrome may be interchangeable with one of them.

I hope with me out of the way the town can actually pull forward and win.

P-Edit: God dangit you guys talk fast. I have a stronger feeling that Toro is scum, but if you're really unwilling to vote him today VOTE: PV.

There. Now make the right decision and kill him for being scummy, not me for being bad.

Hmm, interesting. Last ditch effort to bus your partner?

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Feeling sick as a dog past couple of days, it's late...I'll pick up on the rest of this in the morning.

Bookmark:

Post 1631

[guille2015]

I don't know who you're quoting, I assume it's MoI.


I intend to vote for PV in 2 hours.
@BK, you said you would read Johnny before the end of the day. I'd like to hear your thought on that before I end the day. So if you can do it in 2 hours, great. Else, I'll be seeing you tomorrow.

[BK201]

UNVOTE:
Thinking.

[syndromeofadown]

Then why are you still voting Toro, who is Johnny’s supposed target? Do you think they are scum together? If so why not vote the scum at L-1?

I think they are likely to be scum together. Him not wanting to commit to a vote on Toro "until everyone agrees" looks like noobscum not wanting to bus unless he knows his partner is doomed anyway. I fully intended to hammer Johnny depending on how he answered my questions which I thought was clear since I asked him to full claim, but I didn't see a point in hammering him so soon when there's still information to be gotten from him and deadline is still far away. That said, at this junction I prefer him to Peregrine

VOTE: Johnny

[BK201]

VOTE: PV

I'm sure now.

[BK201]

Yates/Johnny/PV ISO together is very useful.

[Toro]

I don't know who you're quoting, I assume it's MoI.


I intend to vote for PV in 2 hours.
@BK, you said you would read Johnny before the end of the day. I'd like to hear your thought on that before I end the day. So if you can do it in 2 hours, great. Else, I'll be seeing you tomorrow.

Should be fairly easy to tell who I'm quoting where no? Starting my PV ISO read to see his interactions with Johnny/Syndrome.

[pappums rat]

Votecount 4.12

JohnnyFarrar - 2 (Toro, syndromeofadown)
PeregrineV - 3 (JohnnyFarrar, MagnaofIllusion, BK201)
MagnaofIllusion - 1 (PeregrineV)

Not Voting - (guille2015)

MagnaofIllusion is V/LA until August 12.

Just so everyone knows, I will be V/LA possibly until Wednesday night (if so I will have ZERO internet access) so I am extending the deadline by two days.

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.

The deadline for Day 4 is 2 AM EST on August 9, 2012.

[PeregrineV]

Vote: Johnny

Although I will categorically state that if MoI is town, his gameplay makes no sense. Which means he's scum.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Guille holds the hammer. Who's it gonna be?

[guille2015]

This is tough. I missed my own deadline, and when I checked back, BK was thinking. Now syndrome is voting Johnny, which I didn't expect. Toro is voting Johnny. My two Town reads say PV. I original gut said Johnny, but Later discussion had convinced me that PV is scum.

I have already picked, but I want to get some data out for discussion on the next day.

Here is were I go WWSD (What would scum do).

If both are town, scum would leave the most likely player to be lynched for the next day. Since there is no distinction, Scum will split their votes between the two bandwagons, and leave the decision to a town player.

If Both are scum, then they would both be on each others wagon.

If one of them scum, then the other partner would either Hammer or vote in the town Wagon. I doubt that they would have gotten on the early wagon and since they have not hammered, means that they want to maximize their chances of survival.

I have my best town reads on BK and MoI, and that sentiment is reflected among those two and another. It is clear to me if any of them is scum, we have already lost. So, ignoring them, and seeing the above 3 scenarios. We could Lynch them both and correctly guess/win scenarios 2 and 3. Whichever I pick will give us the same amount of information, except in the instance that Johnny flips town. if that were to occur we'd be with no new information. So the correct choice is:

Vote: PV

[JohnnyFarrar]

I am now positive that Guille is town unless somehow PV is also town. He could've picked me over PV and no one would've looked twice.

[BK201]

I am now positive that Guille is town unless somehow PV is also town. He could've picked me over PV and no one would've looked twice.

Agreed.

[pappums rat]

Votecount 4.13 (Final VC of Day 4)

JohnnyFarrar - 3 (Toro, syndromeofadown, PeregrineV)
PeregrineV - 4 (JohnnyFarrar, MagnaofIllusion, BK201, guille2015)

Not Voting - ()

MagnaofIllusion is V/LA until August 12.

With 7 alive it took 4 to lynch.

A lynch has been reached.

As the day drew to an end, PeregrineV found himself cornered, and MagnaofIllusion found King Kai's hammer laying on the ground.
He lifted it in the air and asked, "Anyone want to finish him, once and for all?" guille2015 took the hammer and brought it down on PeregrineV, who exploded in a rain of blood and gore.
As you look at the revolting mess he had become, you see a tail! It turns out PeregrineV was a Saiyan after all! Well, half-Saiyan anyway. Shit.

PeregrineV was

Gohan, Vanilla Townie

, who was crushed by King Kai's hammer Day 4.

Please have all night actions to me by 10 PM EST on August 8 or they will not count. Night 4 begins now.

[pappums rat]

Another night, another dead Z Fighter. guille2015 is smeared all over the place, and you know that even with a Namekian's regenerative powers that there is no way he can pull himself together when he is this far gone.

guille2015 was

Piccolo, Town 1-shot Restricted Day Vigilante

, who was blown apart Night 4.

Day 5 begins now. With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch.

The deadline for Day 5 is 10 PM EST on August 22, 2012.

[syndromeofadown]

well I think everyone knows this, but just in case this is lylo so don't fucking be stupid. *remembers DC mafia*

@BK what is the *secret thing* that made dicknose/MoI 100% town to you? There's really no point in keeping it secret anymore.

[BK201]

I've barely looked into your meta so far but the only difference I see between your scum play and your play here is how often you say lol. Similarities include relying on your personal experience and feeling that can't be readily denied and don't necessarily mean anything ("this reads forced," various interpretations of actions that are essentially guesses), lots of fluff posts (flavor talk, talking about previous games), attempts to link players for little to no reason ("Note Dicknose is defending Danny."), and soft pushing things so that either others pick up on it and think it's scummy or so you can switch around at will ("this has an undertone of bussing," "you're a master of subtle buddying"). I don't know if this is scum you or just you, but I'll look into your town meta in the next few days to see if it means anything.

This is why. He looked at my meta and

accurately

described it (was accurate at that time, have had a scum game after the fact).

[BK201]

If MoI is scum then I have lost this game.

Johnny + Toro, I think you're the scum team.

[BK201]

In fact I'll place my vote,

VOTE: Johnny

[JohnnyFarrar]

Unvote now. Lylo is not the time to just throw around a vote. I understand why you think that post from dicknose much earlier in game was townie, but hold off. He could have easily read your meta as scum to try and connect bits of your scum play to how you were playing this game so that he could get you lynched.

[BK201]

UNVOTE:

Only because I want you lynched while I'm awake.