8:4 Vanilla Nightless [TM2015] - GAME OVER

[Nachomamma8]

if you mean why did I take a different approach than I did initially, my initial response was an emotional one and probably not the best move. grey's gonna do what grey's gonna do and Sotty can handle herself just fine.

[Nachomamma8]

What do you think about Silverwolf and why aren't we lynching her together? I stayed up so long for you to show up and I have to admit I was just a little bit disappointed with you still making that push. Just a little bit, though.

[Empire]

I think she's scummy (see: #106) but I'm liking my Metal Sonic read a lot more. But it's nice to know you think about me all night long.

You're right in #175 about the point behind that question.

(Tell ffery that I'm sorry but I really want her to chime in here - don't forget the smiley, it's important.)

[Empire]

Did Llamarble elaborate on the :town: things in your PT?

[Nachomamma8]

Did Llamarble elaborate on the :town: things in your PT?

No, but they should be pretty obvious!

[Empire]

Sorry but I don't see them (admittedly, it could be because I'm bad).

wgeurts

, Regfan thinks that your posts and your stances regarding SilverWolf and ABR look like you being too reluctant to lead your own push and instead just waiting to see where the wind blows before joining it. Is this true??

[Nachomamma8]

For me, the metal sonic case is missing an answer to the whole "why would he lie?" question, although random posts grind my gears for some reason.

[Empire]

For me, the metal sonic case is missing an answer to the whole "why would he lie?" question, although random posts grind my gears for some reason.

Does Metal Sonic prefer being scum?

[Nachomamma8]

Earnest tone in his cases is pretty fucking good + reach out to me and legendary scumhunter greyice seems pretty dank genuine, off the top of my head.

[Nachomamma8]

For me, the metal sonic case is missing an answer to the whole "why would he lie?" question, although random posts grind my gears for some reason.

Does Metal Sonic prefer being scum?

No.

[wgeurts]

Some pre-game notes from me and my team:

1) To echo Nacho's point about high posting density, Regfan and I noticed that it's been a pretty alarming trend to post A LOT, to the point where most larges now are far and away the longest games on the site via page count. This is really bad because huge amounts of posting tend to ensure people don't stay caught up, motivated and active. Given that none of the strong players here can die, scum's biggest tools are going to be to cripple town morale via paranoia, perpetuating personality clashes, etc. By all means, post but don't overdo it (for example, most of the stuff on page 1-2 is not the way to do things).

2) Token discussion. We've been very split on how to deal with this, Regfan proposes that we lay all of our cards out in the open and we all token claim and explain the reasoning behind our team's decisions. I have my own reservations about doing this but I'll want to know what you guys think before I say anything here.

3) Townhunting is going to be paramount. None of us can get nightkilled here so establishing a group of consensus townreads and playing with that in mind I think will be key. Boxing the scum out via PoE is a strong tactic here as it makes the game more suffocating that it likely already is for them. I know the more experienced people here are probably groaning read this since this is Scumhunting 101 but regardless I felt like it needed a say.

Keeping the thread short and parsable is going to be important as hell to securing a town win: spamming the shit out of it and chucklefucking in the usual style is going to discourage the legendary scumhunters from posting more, which means less cool scumhunting if they're town or less opportunities to catch them if they're scum. Normally, I wouldn't be so stick up the ass boring but I want a perfect town win and you want a perfect town win and we're not going to get it if we alienate everyone else.

ABR, these two early posts gave me the first light town read on them. They've then proceeded to play with genuine posts and reads which seem natural and have good reasoning. Empire especially, he's trying to solve the game is what his posts show me.
Nacho would be weaker than Empire though, I really think Empire's town and he's going to have to suddenly fall bad for that to change.

[Nachomamma8]

And why anyone would prefer scum in this particular setup is beyond me.

[wgeurts]

Sorry but I don't see them (admittedly, it could be because I'm bad).

wgeurts

, Regfan thinks that your posts and your stances regarding SilverWolf and ABR look like you being too reluctant to lead your own push and instead just waiting to see where the wind blows before joining it. Is this true??

Eh, I'm the one that first attacked MS for the reasons I gave. He's blatantly lying and the posts he then gave after that only confirmed my suspicions.
My whole read on him is based off those posts, he was townish (slightly) before them.
I can go state why his posts are dripping with lies if you want again?
I'll shred every sentence to dust.

[Nachomamma8]

Empire, can you tell Regfan his read on wgeurts is not good?
Can you tell me you know his wgeurts read is not good?

[Albert B. Rampage]

wgeurts, your read on MS is blatantly biased. I'm not interested in you repeating your response to his case, and a one on one with him will be unhelpful. Besides asking you about Empire and Nacho, I also asked you about Sotty and GreyIce, and made a callback to Nacho confirming what I said about SW ringing true for him as well. What is your reaction to this? I'd like you to talk as much as you can about topics where you don't have a massive bias.

[wgeurts]

Also the fact he even pounced on my posts while obviously showing he's not actually looked at my motivation makes me think he's scum. This could of been two things:
1. He didn't properly read due to skimming or what not. Could be town.
2. He's scum, saw an opportunity and pounced (what I was looking for).
I first considered option 1 however the fact he hasn't admitted or backed off shows to me it likely isn't the first. If I'd skimmed and therefore made a wrong judgement I'd admit I skimmed. However MS continues to call me scum with the still false reasoning, it even gets worse: He attempts to attack my explanation by bringing it out of context. It looks to me like scum who got caught bad (Ironic how he's accusing me of that) and tried to worm their way out. He's failed if that's the case.
So yeah, strong scum read on that slot.

[wgeurts]

wgeurts, your read on MS is blatantly biased. I'm not interested in you repeating your response to his case, and a one on one with him will be unhelpful. Besides asking you about Empire and Nacho, I also asked you about Sotty and GreyIce, and made a callback to Nacho confirming what I said about SW ringing true for him as well. What is your reaction to this? I'd like you to talk as much as you can about topics where you don't have a massive bias.

Yeah, I admitted I needed to relook the sotty/ICE interaction, I'll do so now. I can't find the post you mean by Nacho, I'll look again but could you quote it?

[Empire]

Earnest tone in his cases is pretty fucking good + reach out to me and legendary scumhunter greyice seems pretty dank genuine, off the top of my head.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the tone in his cases (the one on wgeurts especially feels like a frame job), but the reach-out to you and Grey did not seem genuine at all, read like an attempt to suck up to/buddy the more experienced players in the room.

And why anyone would prefer scum in this particular setup is beyond me.

Some people are really bad/dumb/suicidal/have huge enough egos that they think they can win this as scum.

Do me a solid and table #188 for later.

---

@wgeurts:

I get that you think Metal is super scummy and everything and I appreciate your righteous support of this awesome wagon but talking about that read really wasn't the reaction I was expecting to a prod about Silver/ABR. And I'll admit ABR has a point about your play so far re: reactiveness.

[wgeurts]

my goal right now is to build a town bloc of any size. if we get that in a nightless its basically impossible to lose

I like this thinking. There are several players I am more than willing to bloc up with. (Hoopla, ABR, Nacho, Empire)

yea the activity is digustingly low for a game start

Well I work all day in a job where I have no internet access. Expect my posting to be around this time every evening, weekends are more accessible.

vote : sotty7

Serious vote.

Last time I played with her, she left the site (or almost left the site?) because she was tired of the paranoia following her around because of her scum game. I doubt she has enough confidence or desire to play around that paranoia when it's correct/deal with the added pressure of getting lynched.

Yeah this is true. I've pretty much stopped playing for the most part unless I get the itch and find a game/player list I really like the look of. I'm playing in Team Mafia because our team won all our games in the last one but were only beaten by The Captains on points so Zor gave us an auto in for this one.

i want to know if Hoopla can be considered a "legendary scumhunter"

lol

I like ZZZX a lot. My strongest town read at this point. Actively searching and making some good points (#82 wegurts discrepancy in voting ABR and not GreyICE) and his idea to form a voting bloc is something I'm all about

ABR is also probably town here. Passion in his posts. If he isn't it will show over time, he becomes extremely apathetic when scum.

Empire can be town also for post 105. Thinking the same thing.

Vote: GreyICE

Because "tokens" is bullshit and voting me over Hoopla in that respect is even worse.

You claimed to be voting me because I was likely to use tokens to make myself scum. That is untrue, it is pretty well known I favor town if any tokens were to be spent on me it would be in that direction as Nacho hinted at. Not only that but you said that Hoopla was more likely to push a token scum draw than myself yet your vote is on me. Why me over her? You're going after the weaker of the two options you listed for yourself and that's not the GreyICE I remember at all.

Vote: Silverwolf

Allow me to ask...

Why?

I hate pointless votes without explanation at this stage of game. There are a few wagons that actually somewhat started but yet you are here contributing ... nothing with this vote? not even any kind of reasoning?

your town points in my opinion just went down a bit

Sotty wagon isn't a wagon. I'm giving GreyICE time to follow his line of thought since he seems town and Sorry doesn't yet seem town, but his reasoning doesn't excite me or interest me in any shape or form, thus probably not gonna sheep there.

Metal Sonic wagon seems decent I guess? His posting outside of the lying for no reason seems fine, but I'm not particularly inclined to pursue that lying line while I am still posting on a phone and can't really efficiently quote things.

If there's another wagon, didn't notice.

I'm joining ABR on Silverwolf because those two posts lacked any sort of personality at all: they sounded like Microsoft Sam in written form, and that's not what I expected to read out of Silverwolf this game. It does make sense for nervous scum at this juncture.

Nevermind, found it. That justifies your point then and strengthens my town read on you. (I was paranoid you made it up knowing I don't know SW well.)

[wgeurts]

wasn't the reaction I was expecting to a prod about Silver/ABR.

Can you elaborate on this? I don't think I understand what your trying to say.

[Nachomamma8]

Sleeping now.

[wgeurts]

Your "townhunting" theory and townblock are so incredibly bad that one cannot believe you came up with them unbiased.

Nightless games inevitably snowball. See Camden, or my setup I designed with Hito. At the moment we have 4 mislynches to town loss, but after a single scum lynch we get a spare mislynch. 5 mislynches is nice. Two scum die, and we get 6. That's really nice. 3, and we get 7 fucking mislynches, and if we manage that we should all quit the site.

So the scum are going to be looking to vote as a block. I smell protectionist scum who wish to work together.

Reading the Sotty/ICE interactions (Via ISO) and I noticed this. This was never pushed afterwards was it?

ICE, why didn't you question ZZZX further on this?

[wgeurts]

Wait, what's the scumread of ICE on sotty based on?

[Nachomamma8]

Lied, one more question: Where have you played with Metal Sonic, dear Empire?

[wgeurts]

Seems a little overcertain on the scumread with so little evidence or foundation. However Sotty also acted very defensively against something that wasn't that much of a threat or of weight.