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Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:48 pm
by Bingle
Whether YOU agree with my assertions or not is rather beside the point. That point was that Chara was townreading you because you were engaging with everyone and my impression was pretty much the opposite.
Whether my impression is flawed or not is rather moot in the context of whether Chara's read is real or faked. And your admittance to missing things in the press of content actually strengthens my concerns that Chara's read might be fabricated.
As far as the activity concerns, I'll concede I might have felt personally attacked and overreacted. As I mentioned to Rep, I couldn't find the posts I thought existed, and I apologize for whatever portion of the tension lies with me.
And yes, I see that Chara responded.
Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:54 pm
by Amrun
In post 1872, Bingle wrote:Yes, that was addressed to you as one of the two people who thought the Psyche kill was odd.
I haven't decided how I feel about your response. I don't think
In post 1672, Amrun wrote:Yes but from the perspective of me, who is town, it is a bit bananas.
The only thought I have is nacho seemed very hellbent on townreading him in a way that would have been difficult to reverse. Probably Bingle too. Idk. That’s weak.
Is a particularly satisfying response to the question, though. You didn't actually give any reason.
You fixed that after I brought it up again later with your thought that he was a viable mislynch, but no, the original response was not in any way satisfactory to me.
Speaking of things addressed to multiple people that you haven't responded to I gather you appreciated 1783, could you talk about your Chem read? I know you were mindmelding with Chara but are feeling worse about it, but I can't recall your thoughts on Chem and I've spent a lot of time in your ISO the last couple of days.
I'd also be interested in your take on my conclusions there, particularly not wanting to lynch Fark before Chem.
I mean I think it’s fine to want a more detailed answer, and if you still do I welcome you to ask me more specific questions. However, not being satisfied with an answer is not the same as proceeding as if it didn’t exist, is it?
As for chemist ... like many of the slots, I have a lot of conflictions here. Throughout day 1, I really felt he was town. I make several mentions of it, right from my first content post on.
However, starting day 2, he dropped off significantly. I didn’t like how he fencesat on your slot yesterday. It really sticks in my craw, especially if you turn out to be town. His answers to the questions I asked him just did not satisfy me or make sense to me. And Chara is right - I have tried several times to engage him only to be brushed off. When he did try to engage it was only with Farkran’s case, which didn’t really represent the thoughts of the gamestate. I think chemist/Farkran is a pretty good team comp too.
I would fight here. Completely fine with it.
Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:00 pm
by Amrun
Also, I hear your point about chemist having more valid teams. I’m more personally interested in flipping the slot with the most chance to flip scum individually, but I think that’s a good point to consider.
Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:10 pm
by Bingle
In post 1874, Amrun wrote:You said I never commented on Hectic and why I TR him, but I did. Before this, I stated I felt null on him, and then I stated that his postings on that particular page changed my mind. Like I’m not going to make a town case on like page 8? That’s plenty IMO.
On the page in question Hectic had made one post. Further, I'm not saying that you didn't show a progression there but that you didn't show your reasoning.
In post 1874, Amrun wrote:What you have failed to do is make a case for why ANY of your points against me, whether I agree with them or not, are scum motivated.
You also did not answer why you were holding the case on me - you just posted it. I’d still like to know the answer to that.
I was holding the case for two reasons: I hadn't typed it up yet and I was vaguely interested to see if the promise of a case was enough to get people to act strangely around you. Neither was worth delaying once I had the time to put pen to paper.
As far as scum motivation I thought I was fairly clear on that in the second spoiler. You made only the easy pushes and gave up whenever they became hard pushes. Scum wanting to blend in and not draw the ire of town is pretty self explanatory, I think.
Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:16 pm
by Bingle
In post 1877, Amrun wrote:Also, I hear your point about chemist having more valid teams. I’m more personally interested in flipping the slot with the most chance to flip scum individually, but I think that’s a good point to consider.
I agree. If we lynch scum, we win, so lynching the scummiest player is the right move.
With that said, if Fark can only be scum with Chemist, and we're 90% sure Fark is scum, we're >= 90% sure Chemist is scum.
The fact that no one seems especially opposed to a Chemist lynch is actually mildly concerning, but I'm interested to see how much of that is lip service.
Are any of the teams I included unlikely in your eyes? Do you disagree with any of my removals?
Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:32 pm
by Amrun
In post 1878, Bingle wrote: In post 1874, Amrun wrote:You said I never commented on Hectic and why I TR him, but I did. Before this, I stated I felt null on him, and then I stated that his postings on that particular page changed my mind. Like I’m not going to make a town case on like page 8? That’s plenty IMO.
On the page in question Hectic had made one post. Further, I'm not saying that you didn't show a progression there but that you didn't show your reasoning.
In post 1874, Amrun wrote:What you have failed to do is make a case for why ANY of your points against me, whether I agree with them or not, are scum motivated.
You also did not answer why you were holding the case on me - you just posted it. I’d still like to know the answer to that.
I was holding the case for two reasons: I hadn't typed it up yet and I was vaguely interested to see if the promise of a case was enough to get people to act strangely around you. Neither was worth delaying once I had the time to put pen to paper.
As far as scum motivation I thought I was fairly clear on that in the second spoiler. You made only the easy pushes and gave up whenever they became hard pushes. Scum wanting to blend in and not draw the ire of town is pretty self explanatory, I think.
I’ve picked fights, made independent pushes, and fought against spares I dislike. I agree that how you represent my play makes it sound scummy, but I don’t think it’s an accurate representation at all.
I’ll address your other post soon when I have time.
Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:59 pm
by Chemist1422
why do I hear boss music
also hi I tried to catch up but it's 11 pm and I haven't finished my homework
tomorrow
Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:32 pm
by Farkran
In post 1853, Replica wrote:The best part of this is I answered Farkran's question twice and he still didn't realize it.
No, you didn't.
You only said that you weren't confident in the first place, yet you spared him nonetheless.
In post 1829, Farkran wrote: In post 1827, Replica wrote:HEAL: Bingle
I'm really struggling right now in the reads department. This is the only one I feel solid on. I was able to understand/empathize with Chemist a lot more on a read through today, and I feel like choosing to engage with Farkran's points to the extent he did, and as critically but still open as he did, as scum would be difficult for him. I'm not confident in him being town but he's no longer in my desired lynchpool I think.
Chara's recent content has hashed out a lot but their reads don't really seem to be evolving in new or interesting ways. I kind of feel that, but it makes it tough to read. Amrun has been extremely difficult, all of her reads are very plausible. I don't like some of the Hectic progression, and Amrun instantly asking the leading questions (beginning in
#274, continuing until I flexed a bit) to see if I would give her something to pounce on is worse in hindsight when I realize that it came shortly after her vote on Asriel (now Farkran)
I don't like my lynch preference right now. Farkran -> Amrun -> Nacho -> Chemist, where I can easily see both of Nacho/Amrun being town. I don't think I'd learn a lot from seeing only one of her/Nacho flip town, either, so I'm really not eager to lynch there.
I feel like I'm wrong somewhere and I don't like it. My fear is that it's on one of Farkran/Chara/Hectic.
I wonder if i have been correct with my initial push on Replica back in d1. I have been clashing with him since forever, but i thought the conviction and passion displayed were genuine and i was just being unable to see eye to eye with him. I have been in games where i had very strong TvT fights, where i hated pretty much all of a specific player's post, only to have them become conftown by death. I thought this was very likely going to be one of those cases.
This post, however, i... just cannot stand. Are you saying that you need a flip, now of all times, because you are unsure of your previous reads on Farkran/Hectic/Chara? Like, i have been fighting with those two for one day and a half, you were 101% certain of which side you should have taken, and
today
you are doubting your massive confidence in it? After Hectic was spared? Please tell me, what happened that changed your mind so much, when yesterday you were confident enough to change your spare of Bingle into a spare of Hectic for the SPECIFIC PURPOSE of not resolving the day in a flip. You could have easily unvoted your spare and get a Farkran flip. Chara would have gladly rejoined my wagon. Amrun would have joined. Even i would have joined, and it's not like i didn't say it.
Why did you spare Hectic? Give me a full explanation of your townread of hectic. A detailed post about what caused you to trust him so much as to compromise on sparing him instead of lynching me yesterday.
And then tell me what demolished your confidence today, because the only relevant difference that i can see is Psyche's death, which has nothing to do with me or Hectic since he voted for sparing
both
.
This is the post you need to answer and you have failed to answer, choosing to shade me instead.
Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:35 pm
by Farkran
In post 1856, Replica wrote: In post 1841, Amrun wrote:I don’t think there’s a question he’s working backwards, just whether or not it’s AI.
I'm sorry, what? This is one of the few things I think is 100% broadly scum
No. This isn't true in the first place, and if you meta'ed me properly you'd know what i am talking about. The inductive vs deductive reasoning debate is not born today.
I forgot where i talked about it, but it's easily found running a search for "inductive" in my post history. Turns out it was in my scumgame, which you claim to have read.
Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:44 pm
by Farkran
Actually Amrun, what's your scumcase on me over Bingle, Chemist, Nacho or Replica? Because what i have been reading up to this point is doubt towards my slot, but i don't find any reason to PoE me in your posts, except for townleaning Chara because you agree with it - yet posturing against it too.
In particular, i want to know why you are voting for me today instead of pursuing my flip during the earlier days. Let me understand what makes you think that today i am a good lynch as opposed to d1 or d2.
Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:57 pm
by Farkran
I don't entirely think the second part ("make your case") is true, and that's what i'd like to understand from Amrun. My problem with her - but really not just her - today is that she specifically has NOT chosen the path of least resistance in d2, and walked back from that same path during d1.
I was, and have been, a really easy lynch for the whole game, yet i am being voted today of all times. Nacho entered the day posturing against me. Replica has always been scumreading me, this is no news - but that post about "plausibly reconsidering" his reads is awfully bad to make today.
As a consequence, instead of wondering why these posts are appearing all of a sudden, Amrun is walking the path of least resistance exactly right now, not any day where my flip would have been useful for a town solve.
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:10 am
by Farkran
What slots wouldn't you be fine with lynching today?
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:15 am
by Farkran
In post 1834, Chara wrote: In post 1829, Farkran wrote:And then tell me what demolished your confidence today, because the only relevant difference that i can see is Psyche's death, which has nothing to do with me or Hectic since he voted for sparing both.
this is a reminder that i have a question for you after Replica has answered this.
Do you think Replica answered?
If so, what was your question to me?
Also, what do you think of the current gamestate?
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:41 am
by Amrun
In post 1884, Farkran wrote:Actually Amrun, what's your scumcase on me over Bingle, Chemist, Nacho or Replica? Because what i have been reading up to this point is doubt towards my slot, but i don't find any reason to PoE me in your posts, except for townleaning Chara because you agree with it - yet posturing against it too.
In particular, i want to know why you are voting for me today instead of pursuing my flip during the earlier days. Let me understand what makes you think that today i am a good lynch as opposed to d1 or d2.
I don’t have one! I just think it’s viable. I’m not getting my Bingle lynch, clearly. I think there has been a lot of discussion surrounding you this game day that would make your flip informative, one way or the other.
I can create maybe just as many scenarios in my head of you being town as you being scum. If I had a strong scumread in me for this game, you all would never hear me shut up about it, but that’s not the case.
I want to fight in {Bingle, Farkran, Chemist} today. Anything outside of that I’m not interested in.
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:42 am
by Nachomamma8
I've continually said that I'm not scumreading you. Why do you keep saying that I am posturing against you?
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:43 am
by Nachomamma8
Actually no I don't want nor need an answer. I'm not scumreading you. Stop acting like I am.
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:44 am
by Amrun
The reason I prefer Farkran to Chemist is I had an early game townread on chemist and my early game reads tend to be pretty accurate. I’m not afraid to change them but I give them credence.
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:45 am
by Amrun
In post 1890, Nachomamma8 wrote:Actually no I don't want nor need an answer. I'm not scumreading you. Stop acting like I am.
This kinda makes it seem like you’re scumreading him though, just saying.
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:58 am
by Amrun
@Bingle:
I don’t agree with removing chemist as viable Hectic partner, but other than that, I agree, with the exception of teams that include your slot.
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:04 am
by Farkran
In post 1890, Nachomamma8 wrote:Actually no I don't want nor need an answer. I'm not scumreading you. Stop acting like I am.
Never said you are. I said you are preparing yourself to allow a compromise on my lynch when this day nears the deadline, and make it seems you had a progression on me, when yesterday you weren't and i don't see any reason for you to change your stance on that. This is what i am concerned about, not that you are scumreading me right now. A better answer than
1809 would be appreciated.
If this is not the proper meaning of the word "posturing", sorry. I am still not accustomed to all the ms vocabulary. But this is what i meant.
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:19 am
by Farkran
In post 1888, Amrun wrote: In post 1884, Farkran wrote:Actually Amrun, what's your scumcase on me over Bingle, Chemist, Nacho or Replica? Because what i have been reading up to this point is doubt towards my slot, but i don't find any reason to PoE me in your posts, except for townleaning Chara because you agree with it - yet posturing against it too.
In particular, i want to know why you are voting for me today instead of pursuing my flip during the earlier days. Let me understand what makes you think that today i am a good lynch as opposed to d1 or d2.
I don’t have one! I just think it’s viable. I’m not getting my Bingle lynch, clearly. I think there has been a lot of discussion surrounding you this game day that would make your flip informative, one way or the other.
I can create maybe just as many scenarios in my head of you being town as you being scum. If I had a strong scumread in me for this game, you all would never hear me shut up about it, but that’s not the case.
I want to fight in {Bingle, Farkran, Chemist} today. Anything outside of that I’m not interested in.
The part about wanting to lynch in that group, and the part about my flip being plenty of info, i can understand and i also agree that from a pov different than my own, that trio can have scum equity.
The part i do not understand is why you haven't been pushing me earlier, when it would have been viable and useful - instead you started pushing Bingle and ended up doing nothing - as opposed to today, where you started pushing me first after you have seen a progression swing from Nacho (start of d3 ISO) and Bingle (
1758). What changed your lynch priority order besides me looking "easier"? How would my flip help you today? It's not even that i disagree that it would help, but i wanna know your perspective about it.
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:43 am
by Nachomamma8
In post 1892, Amrun wrote: In post 1890, Nachomamma8 wrote:Actually no I don't want nor need an answer. I'm not scumreading you. Stop acting like I am.
This kinda makes it seem like you’re scumreading him though, just saying.
Being annoyed at someone because I feel I'm repeating myself =\= scumreading
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:59 am
by Amrun
In post 1895, Farkran wrote: In post 1888, Amrun wrote: In post 1884, Farkran wrote:Actually Amrun, what's your scumcase on me over Bingle, Chemist, Nacho or Replica? Because what i have been reading up to this point is doubt towards my slot, but i don't find any reason to PoE me in your posts, except for townleaning Chara because you agree with it - yet posturing against it too.
In particular, i want to know why you are voting for me today instead of pursuing my flip during the earlier days. Let me understand what makes you think that today i am a good lynch as opposed to d1 or d2.
I don’t have one! I just think it’s viable. I’m not getting my Bingle lynch, clearly. I think there has been a lot of discussion surrounding you this game day that would make your flip informative, one way or the other.
I can create maybe just as many scenarios in my head of you being town as you being scum. If I had a strong scumread in me for this game, you all would never hear me shut up about it, but that’s not the case.
I want to fight in {Bingle, Farkran, Chemist} today. Anything outside of that I’m not interested in.
The part about wanting to lynch in that group, and the part about my flip being plenty of info, i can understand and i also agree that from a pov different than my own, that trio can have scum equity.
The part i do not understand is why you haven't been pushing me earlier, when it would have been viable and useful - instead you started pushing Bingle and ended up doing nothing - as opposed to today, where you started pushing me first after you have seen a progression swing from Nacho (start of d3 ISO) and Bingle (
1758). What changed your lynch priority order besides me looking "easier"? How would my flip help you today? It's not even that i disagree that it would help, but i wanna know your perspective about it.
For at least most of yesterday, I decided I townread you. I also had some sort of delusion that I could make Bingle lynch happen (clearly not).
With a couple of viable pairings (to me) taken off the table with Psyche’s death, and deciding that I think Nacho is probably town after all, my PoE narrows.
That’s kinda it, really. My heart has been fickle this game.
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:53 am
by Replica
If someone that is not Farkran does not understand why I spared Hectic, or incorrectly thinks I had him as a solid town, I will gladly answer
1829/1882 and point to the relevant posts.
I have been more than generous enough with my time and patience to Farkran. The Buddha had limits. Mine are much lower.
Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:00 am
by Replica
Starting with a desired conclusion then gathering evidence is not inductive inference/reasoning.
