Mafiascum.net

Vote Seniors bros

vote scum feel good.

beeboy explain why you went back to Seniors?

Like if anything they've been townier lately so it's p. unacceptable

I'll preface this by saying that I am far from certain FS is scum. But I think there's a reasonable chance he is, and given where we are, I'm okay with that.

I already posted about why I voted him initially. He made a series of sketchy posts early which was good enough for me. And the fact is that he hasn't really done anything since then to change that initial unfavorable impression - which is saying something given how many posts he has. Usually I can find more to like about someone who's Townie, even if I'm not always agreeing with all of it. And I can still sort of see where they're coming from. They might make some reasonable points. Or they might show some kind of logical thought process. FS is just really random and hostile. Incidentally, as best I can tell, FS has still never responded to some of those points. He's still never explained his vote for SnarkytheSnowman (which was another "vote the person who voted for you" vote) and what he meant when he said that Snarky's "push" felt weird. He has ignored multiple requests for him to elaborate on that.

His first what I'll call a real vote/case was for Sir Cakes - after Cakes voted for him - and the reasoning for it was nonsensical. He accused Sir Cakes of "basically scumreading anyone making any sort of impact in the game." He called it "a super opportunistic position in the game and needs to be lynched." (#264). What does that even mean? How was Cakes being "opportunistic?" And exactly what would be the reasoning for a scum Cakes to be doing it in the first place then? It wasn't any kind of logical position. It just sounded like him throwing something out there to seem like he was doing something, but what he was really doing was attacking a person who voted for him. This will be kind of a theme.

He then proceeds to do the other theme which is get super sulky and bitter about people voting for him.

He then made a push on podoboq. Podoboq is probably like my most Town read in the whole game. This came, surprise, after podoboq voted for him. I've tried to read his reasoning for his attack on podoboq multiple times, but it still doesn't make any sense. If I squint real hard, it like FS was arguing that podo was both questioning Beeboy early while at the same time voting for the wagon Beeboy was pushing. And that podo was foloowing along with the popular stances (which he also said wasn't actually scummy.) And then maybe not liking podo's "tone?" This wasn't any kind of good vote though.

Next vote was the Skybird "sheep" vote that I also talked about already and which FS has attacked me for for daring to call it a sheep vote (despite his own use of the term) when he gave all these reasons why Skybird was scum (which he actually didn't and you can look it up). I've already knocked that one down and (not irrelevantly) this is another point that FS has never responded to.

After that he started attacking me (also after I voted for him). You can imagine how this would not improve his Towniness in my eyes. As indicated above, he mis-characterized my argument, and then somehow tried to twist my admission that I thought one head sounded better than the other, into some kind of accusation where - if I was Town - I would have done more questioning of the Town at large to find out if this was their "meta" or not. He decides to back Dramonic, of all people. We had a two post back-and-forth which FS never continued. He completely disengaged though still calling me scum.

He then rather abruptly voted Ranger (who was "Town" as of #1256, "Meh" in #1465, and "scum" by #1474). Reasoning was absent (although it again appears to be a read based completely off of Ranger criticizing FS).

He then jumped the Sir Cakes wagon when that looked like it might possibly go somewhere. This, at least was someone he had voted for before, but, to me, is the definition of an opportunistic vote.

Then did virtually the same thing with the TicTac vote.

Has declared I am now "100% scum" for daring to go back to voting for him at the deadline - and even, gasp, "rolefishing" by him to go ahead and claim. Which is not rolefishing, but whatever.

These are a few of the things I do not like about FS.

dodging spiffeh's question with a Ranger vote.

VOTE: Ranger

Good boy

That is an acceptable response

↑ Friendless Seniors wrote:hello, this is EP.
something very emotionally difficult has happened to me and I hope you understand that I don't think i'll be able to really spend time on mafia for the time being.
thank you for being understanding, especially to hiplop.
I will be more than willing to do an awesome catchup when I get back.

I'm really sorry to hear this. ((((Errant)))

VOTE: Ranger

I believe that's only surprisingly enough. As far as I can tell there are now 9 votes on Ranger and 6 on Seniors with 11 to lynch.

↑ Spiffeh wrote:

↑ Rob14 wrote:Mirhawk: THE WRONG LYNCH, The Pied Piper, Cerberus v666 (3)
tictac: SirCakez (1)
SirCakez: Tammy (1)
Skybird: pistachi0n (1)
Axelrod: dramonic (1)

In case it wasn't clear, we are now in "scramble for a lynch before deadline" mode

Meaning these people need to pick a side (*coughvoteforRangercough*) if they haven't already.

Or face my wrath if we run out of time

Actually I think it's more like:

↑ Rob14 wrote:

Mirhawk:

THE WRONG LYNCH, Cerberus v666, SirCakez (3)

SirCakez:

Tammy (1)

Skybird:

pistachi0n (1)

Axelrod:

dramonic (1)

Cakez went to Mirhawk in 1904 and Pied Piper went to Ranger in 1919.

But yes the people who need to vote or indicate a preference one way or another are:


Or explain why they'd prefer to force no-lynch.

↑ Rob14 wrote:

Deadline:

(expired on 2016-04-06 21:00:00)

First off, let me say: thank you for linking to the pages you're asking about; it makes going to them much easier. <3

The Pied Piper wrote:Why were dramonic and axel sharing a tier on page 1?

Basically, that was at the time a barely-above-null tier. Axelrod's song was amusing, though the mention of a serial killer raised my eyebrow as a detail which seems unusual for a town player to include. dramonic's vote was okay, but his posting did not send off strong town vibes.

Was Seniors so low because they suggested a policy lynch or for some other reason?

Actually, it was 13. Post 14 also wasn't the best, but 13 was the real "hmmmmmm..."-inducer.

Was Spiffeh on the bottom for claiming town or some other reason?

It was actually mainly because of the delayed RVS. I felt that Spiffeh, as town, would have been RVSing in his first post or not voting at all. His question to Cakez, and then the vote in the post after, read as being scum messing around in the RVS, and then thinking, "oh, crud, I probably should cast a vote, it might be suspicious if I don't". However, you're not wrong, either: it wasn't so much the declaration of being town as the bad gut feeling tonality-wise I got from he declared it.

What was wrong with Mala's posting on page 2?

You linked to the post in question. Her enthusiasm did not feel sincere.

Is Sakura's postition primarily based on 38 or a different one?

My read on Sakura Hana at that point was weakly town, but in the position where she could have been scum faking things for town credit. So, it was mainly actually 44/48 (the posts which looked like potential scumhunting, yet also potentially being scum faking it), with 41 being the strongest town indicator at that point.

Is beeboy rising because he was making so much noise?

No. I liked 54. It felt lighthearted and yet still relevant. This was significantly amplified by 55, where the statement of him being serious felt like town naturally working their way out of the RVS. 58 continued the trend. Basically one of the only reasons he didn't rise even higher by that point is that the line "votes plz" didn't feel as sincere as the rest. Same for 62; it almost felt lighthearted given his serious push. But I did really like 72. As for why beeboy jumped to the top: I loved 81 which was a valid point. (Speaking of which: Mirhawk is totally scum for deflecting pressure away from Friendless Seniors in 80.) What really got the read going was 85. The moment beeboy explained that, I knew he was town. The sheer in 86 is uncharacteristic of beeboy's scumgame (which, yes, I have seen multiple times), and rather in-character for him as town. 94 is one of the best possible explanations he could have possibly fielded. 98 was also a valid point, reflecting my thoughts at the time.

sakura goes up a notch for questioning a townread on her or something else?

That was in fact the reason, yes. I did not think it was a characteristic Sakura Hana would have as scum, and yet I'm sure I've seen Sakura use that same question as town many times. That level of healthy paranoia to a townread felt good.

davesaz is falling a little due to other people being rearranged or some other reason?

I'm pretty sure it was me becoming more hesitant about davesaz, but looking at his posts on the page, I can't actually tell you why. If I had to guess, maybe 90, but I honestly don't know. Something he said pinged, but not enough to significantly demote him, just enough to push him slightly down. As for why davesaz went higher than Mirhawk, I absolutely 100. The snark in there was awesome, it made me feel really good about him, and also made me question Mirhawk for the first time in the game, thus, why dave went up and Mirhawk went down.

Is True Ogre at the bottom because of how late their entrance was?

You have to understand that at the time, I did not know True Ogre was an alt. I saw someone who I was under the impression was inexperienced, posting in a way that looked incredibly odd. The second line in particular felt out of place, and also how they didn't vote Friendless Seniors in spite of liking the push. The rest of the post was also full of fence-sitting: no hard stance on Wrong Lynch, no hard stance on your slot, and random questions that didn't seem to have a purpose. So, in short: basically the entirety of 123, and how it seemingly had no content for a slot entering the game so late, so...kind-of, yes.

True Ogre vote because of their vote at the top of page 6 or?

Nah. I voted True Ogre to get a vote on the board that wasn't on a townread. At the time, he was at the bottom of my list, thus, vote.

Skybird is towner because of her questioning of Ogre or?

Everything about 128 was good. The answer, the depth, the counter-questioning, and the tone. It all felt incredibly town.

is tictac scummy for the things they're missing in 138 or the things they're noticing?

I hated the defense of Friendless Seniors in 138. The question to Ogre looked fake. Overall the post just gave bad gut feelings, too. The other posts did nothing to change my read either way. This lasted until 174: I thought it was an actually-good defense of his stances, and while I didn't his stances, that post made it look as if his stances could actually come from town.

seniors a little scummier for errant's wall?

Oh, yes. I don't write anything into the alignments of others from that post, but it was pure scum Errant, through-and-through.

Because of his interactions with us or something else?

205 was actually the start, but yes, the interactions with you felt incredibly sincere.

Nothing else on page 9 affected your reads on any other slots?

What would have changed? beeboy was a top townread and continued towning it up. SirCakez was a top townread and continued towning it up. You remained pretty town. davesaz, Sakura Hana, and dramonic were the only possible read changes, and dramonic's post was nothing, Sakura's was something I couldn't lock down one way or another, and for whatever reason davesaz didn't change.

You're voting Seniors but you still have Ogre beneath them in your readslist.

This was an error in my reads list, one that lasted until the correction I posted in 1281. TrueOgre did not belong that low at that stage, and it was a mistake that I didn't think about fixing until later. They were still a scumread, but my Friendless Seniors scumread was much stronger.

Is pistachi0n's place here solely due to her miller claim?

No, it was due to the miller counterclaim causing pistachi0n's wagon to grow as it did. The claim itself was null. How people when Amihan counterclaimed is what showed pistachi0n to be town. Speaking of which: yes. The miller gambit was town. Not only for the gambit itself, but also tonality-wise. It simply did not feel like scum.

I feel like Spiffeh got towner on page 11. You didn't?

Apparently not, but looking at his posting, I don't know why? Reading what he says on that page, I totally agree with you, it looks more town. It could also, however, be part of the error I fixed later; that'd actually make more sense.

Why is Mirhawk's position unchanged? There's very little motion in your readslist around this time.

If I had to guess, it was the error in the reads list. I was literally copy-pasting and making changes as I thought to make them when reading the thread, but at around this point, that meant I often was not making the changes be as strong as they should have been. That's most evident with Friendless Seniors being above TrueOgre in spite of being my strongest scumread, but is elsewhere in there, too.

This is partially answered in your 1278 but why are naked votes from hiplop surprising to you? If you can tell that the naked voter was hiplop, and I agree that was almost certainly him, that means that naked voting isn't surprising from hiplop except in this case it is?

I can tell it was hiplop because Errant almost never casts naked votes. When I think of Errant, I always think, "they vote with a reason". That's my mental picture of them. As for why hiplop's naked vote was bad, it wasn't "naked vote = bad!". It was naked voting pistachi0n. If hiplop were town, I would expect one of two things. Either 1: he wouldn't vote pistachi0n at all, or 2: if he did, like all the other town players at that stage, he would have some dialog about it.

Okay, so Mirhawk got a little worse in 349, but they didn't get worse before that?

Maybe in hindsight, but at the time? Naturally. Mirhawk's posting before that did not seem alarming with what I had read at the time. 349 was just so bad that I find it absolutely impossible to have ever been written by a player not with a scum role card. (This, by the way, was another case of inaccurate placement.)

Can you talk some about your Cakez read? I realise it hasn't changed since page 1 but that's part of the problem I'm having with it.

I can talk about the SirCakez read...but doing so is literally quoting almost his entire iso. His posting started strong. It has only gotten stronger as the game has continued. Why would the read change? He made himself known as town early. He has done absolutely nothing to change that, in fact cementing it with his continuously-strong play.

Snarky isn't falling a little?

At that point, no. I simply didn't have him in my mind to be honest.

I know that Cerberus is a rogue tier but did his predecessor's "18 pages holy moly" affect your read in any direction?

It did nothing.

Is your town read on podoboq partially based on how cute he is?

453 was a solid entrance into the game, but the rest of his posting was not strong enough to mean anything.

Is your dramonic read meta based or?

It's partially taking people's word for it that this is normal for him, and partially gut behind the tone of his pushes. He's pushing only a few players, and giving almost nothing behind the pushes, so objectively that's not very good, but in spite of that he town.

You pointed at his 475 and said what you thought of them but he was also considering pistachi0n, mirhawk, and you.

Well, I know I'm town and I understood his suspicion on pistachi0n, even though I disagreed. But Mirhawk was a fine scumread to have.

Is podoboq improving because of posts like 477 where he's looking past things he doesn't like to townread people in spite of antitown behaviour? Because of the jester questions on page 21?

That would be why, yes. 484 was also good.

What did you think of goodmorning's entrance? I notice it didn't leave a mark on your readslist.

It looked decent, but by itself, wasn't enough. Basically, if goodmorning was posting like that every time and every day I'd probably have a stronger townread there, but since it was a one-off post, it didn't make a notable impression. I know, they're V/LA so it's unfair to ask that level of content from them, yet that's what I feel like I need in order to have a stronger read: more posting.

What did you think of snarky chiming in to the jester conversation and continuing to ignore everything going on in the thread?

I think it was about this time that SnarkySnowman was beginning to slowly creep in and replace Cerberus as my rogue townread: someone I didn't know what to think of exactly, but someone I didn't think was scum nor definitively town.

pistachi0n: Sakura Hana, Friendless Seniors, Mirhawk, tictac, Axelrod, podoboq (6)

The wagon you next ask about. Bluntly, the only names on there I wouldn't lynch are Sakura and pobodoq. I think it was scum-driven, taking advantage of two town players seemingly CCing each other.

Is Ogre looking better for mixing up the heads in my hydra on page 22 or something else?

It was the revelation that he's an alt, actually. That was information I needed to have. Given the revelation he's an alt, his interactions suddenly made a lot more sense, namely, how he is treating major players he most likely has much experience with (e.g. Nacho, Wrong Lynch). I did like his response to tictac, too.

What did you think of pistachi0n's 550?

It did nothing. Null. Not a game-changer. pistachi0n has posts which increased the townread from interaction-based to play-based, but those come later.

Was 670 a large part of why podoboq moved up?

652, actually.

I agree that Tammy's town but it feels like you've written her off as town.

Kind-of? I don't have any reason for Tammy being town. Never did. She just popped into my head as a townread, and I haven't let that go.

Have you played with scumCerberus before? Is he that bad at it?

The answer to both is yes.


I'll make another comment, since this is relevant.
I'm moving The Pied Piper into my top tier.
This is not because I think they have proven themselves to be without any doubt town.
It's because if they're scum, frankly I'd let them win.

I know. That was a long wall. It has my entire thought process more or less lain out there, though, so yes I do expect you to read it all. I would have spoilered it if I expected it to be skipped.

tictac wrote:Why was Seniors obvscum on page 9?

13, 50, 96, and ESPECIALLY 190 for a start.

Basically, beeboy's case was right on the money.

What are the relevant tiers?

The relevant tiers as of 1519 are: {untouchable town (Pied Piper has moved here), strong town, fairly town, null town, null scum, slightly scum, basically-confirmed-scum}.

The Pied Piper wrote:What about Snarky's early posting did you like?

The vote in 74 matches my expectation of SnarkySnowman as town. I also liked 409. That was basically all of what can be called SnarkySnowman's early posting. Both good, but not enough.

What kind of posting would you have expected from scumSnarky early on?

Something else. I'm actually not sure. Just, not what he did.

Have you talked about why they're scum together at any point?

Well, mostly, they're scumreads individually. There associatives linking them. Things like how they have refused to push each other for instance, and how they've been voting for literally anyone not them. (On that note, I'd like to point out, Friendless Seniors backed out of the tictac wagon as momentum had begun to build there. It's also the only non-them wagon Mirhawk didn't support.)

Ranger, this is reminding me of something you said in Blitz 19. Can you tell me what that thing was and why it is reminding me of that thing?

Not from memory, no. Believe it or not, the posts I find least-memorable in a game are my own; I tend to forget what I've said even before the game has finished, yet alone a couple months later. I'd have to look that up, but I don't have time for that right now. Maybe tomorrow I could get back to you about that.

↑ True Ogre wrote:VOTE: Ranger

I believe that's only

L-2

surprisingly enough. As far as I can tell there are now 9 votes on Ranger and 6 on Seniors with 11 to lynch.

↑ Spiffeh wrote:

↑ Rob14 wrote:Mirhawk: THE WRONG LYNCH, The Pied Piper, Cerberus v666 (3)
tictac: SirCakez (1)
SirCakez: Tammy (1)
Skybird: pistachi0n (1)
Axelrod: dramonic (1)

In case it wasn't clear, we are now in "scramble for a lynch before deadline" mode

Meaning these people need to pick a side (*coughvoteforRangercough*) if they haven't already.

Or face my wrath if we run out of time

Actually I think it's more like:

↑ Rob14 wrote:

Mirhawk:

THE WRONG LYNCH, Cerberus v666, SirCakez (3)

SirCakez:

Tammy (1)

Skybird:

pistachi0n (1)

Axelrod:

dramonic (1)

Cakez went to Mirhawk in 1904 and Pied Piper went to Ranger in 1919.

But yes the people who need to vote or indicate a preference one way or another are:

TWL, Cerberus, Cakez, Tammy, pistachion, dramonic

Or explain why they'd prefer to force no-lynch.

↑ Rob14 wrote:

Deadline:

(expired on 2016-04-06 21:00:00)

The ranger wagon is absurd and terrible. That would be why I'm not supporting it. Not agreeing with the belief that FS has had scummy posting is why I'm not on that wagon.

You've created a situation where you have two people I believe to be town on the verge of being lynched. A no lynch isn't better than that, but I'm certainly not going to pile on and build momentum towards either one.

Also, ranger, I'm sad that you think I'm so bad at scum that I couldn't fake 875. Was Open 623 that terrible? I was super distracted and not invested in that game at all, if that makes it any better.

Actually, let's rephrase that. I believe ranger is town. I lack sufficient cause to believe FS is scum. That's a very important distinction to make.

Sakura Hana wrote:3 more ppl asking for votes on Ranger and i dont even understand why...

Actually, four: Mirhawk, Friendless Seniors, Spiffeh, and beeboy.

Hint: half of them are scum.

Further hint: beeboy's tied for being my strongest townread.

I think you can do the math from there.

Spiffeh wrote:ISO me to find all my reasons why in a spoiler

Which I responded to, and you never countered.


Twice, I have answered your challenge. Twice you have continued pressing those points as if I have not.

Friendless Seniors wrote:shes exactly like mafiaception

This game is absolutely like Mafiaception. That game, I gave almost no effort. The one and only time I did effort was after my scumbuddy was lynched, faking defense of them. Other than that, I was a lurksack. I gave no content. I held no strong stances. My reads never evolved. I tried laying low. Here, I have given more effort than almost any other game. (Almost.) Here, I have been active, coming in every day and posting plenty. Here, I have given TONS of content, both implied and explicit. (Especially notable when people have actually me, which most have not bothered to do. I answer when asked. I won't normally provide reasoning otherwise.) I very much have held strong stances, and my reads have evolved. And I am in the spotlight.

It is night and day.

VOTE: Friendless Seniors L-4

There's still time to make this happen.

Friendless Seniors wrote:I don't mean to discredit you here, but that scumpool you just mentioned, is the easiest, least unique one presented thus far.

For someone claiming they're not trying to discredit SirCakez.

This is an awfully lot like a discredit of SirCakez, especially considering it is something SirCakez is so passionate about and especially since me having the same reads as another player is absolutely no sin. If anything, it's the opposite; my established scum meta in half my scum games has been attacking players who were hard targets. (Masons and Mafia, Machina Mafia, Mafiaception, Mexican Standoff, maybe Blitz 26, for a start.) I get reads. My reads sometimes coincidentally line up with those of another. It is exactly that.

Spiffeh should know this, too. I faced this exact same accusation in Blitz 2. (Which I saw he was a player in when I reread that game.) Was town there, am town here.

Her pushing tictac hard and completely avoiding actual pressure on that slot is SERIOUSLY scummy.

Pot, kettle, black. Maybe not from your half of the hydra (would have to check), but guess what your slot's been doing most of the game? Guess what they've also been avoiding? There was actual pressure mounting on tictac, such that I was interested in switching. That pressure has vanished, in large part because you switched your vote just as momentum was building, effectively killing the wagon before it could really get going.

Spiffeh wrote:I'd be willing to flash wagon Axelrod and maaaaaaaayybe tictac

Honestly would not object to either.

The Pied Piper wrote:Why are we voting Ranger?

I don't know, you tell me!

The Pied Piper wrote:Other thing is I can't imagine Ranger as scum scumreading a universal townread and not expecting pushback

On that front, I can tell you I absolutely have no fear of pushing a universal townread. Machina Mafia should have told you that much. It's utter BS to think I'd after doing so, though, because if I'm going to push a universal townread, I'm going to that universal townread, usually with an agenda attached. (E.g. "pushing them will hopefully stop me from being lynched".)

Also, Sakura Hana is town.

Friendless Seniors wrote:hello, this is EP. something very emotionally difficult has happened to me and I hope you understand that I don't think i'll be able to really spend time on mafia for the time being. thank you for being understanding, especially to hiplop. I will be more than willing to do an awesome catchup when I get back.

<3

Tammy wrote:Gonna sleep on it, and yeah a claim from either would be nice.

Not happening.

I don't care what size the wagon on me is.

I'm not claiming today.

↑ Ranger wrote:If anything, it's the opposite; my established scum meta in half my scum games has been attacking players who were hard targets. (Masons and Mafia, Machina Mafia, Mafiaception, Mexican Standoff, maybe Blitz 26, for a start.)

Your main scumread was Imperium in Machina. They didn't have the thread presence they normally do in that game but you probably would've known that they were capable of being a very hard target. I think Wisdom/Titus might've been a harder day 1 target in that particular game but Imperium is always a hard target.

Lowell really town in Masons and Mafia, that's true. (you didn't have time to do very much that game, your buddies screwed you pretty much by being too trigger happy and forgetting how many masons there were. Nightless games are hard as scum.)

I feel like I should remember Mexican Standoff better since I was spectating it and it only just ended but it was one of those games that I had good reads early on and then i was reading along but not paying all that much attention to what i was reading. I knew you were scum because of Persivul's meta.

In Mafiaception you were on Drixx/Porochaz/Spiffeh (a little bit). I feel like pepto's and dong's early posting just outed the entire scumteam in that game. It was just obvious who all of you were from their short ISOs and there was nothing you could do about that. (I kept trying to replace in and getting ninjaed.)

About blitz 26 I'd have to see if persivul and titus were unusually town in that game; they can be pretty lynchable sometimes.


(I do want to reply to your longer posts but I need to get lunch and I don't think replying to it is the best use of the last 15 hours of this dayphase; I feel 1965 is a sufficient tl;dr of what I think of it though!)

Oh, also, ranger...please explain what about the posts of FS you've seen makes you feel they're scum. Or direct me to where you EXPLAINED instead of just linking posts and saYing they're scummy. I'll read it all this time too.

Cerberus v666 wrote:Also, ranger, I'm sad that you think I'm so bad at scum that I couldn't fake 875.

Eh, maybe I was a bit too harsh.

It's more like maybe as scum you could make a post like 875 and have it be passable to others, but you wouldn't be able to fool . ;)

I believe ranger is town. I lack sufficient cause to believe FS is scum. That's a very important distinction to make.

Make sure you're around at deadline, then. Unfortunately I don't think my schedule works out that way (I'll still be stuck at work, too busy to use the internet and besides I'd rather not risk losing my job over a game anyway), so I can't, but you need to be.

While my vote's basically locked in on Friendless Seniors for today (as I won't be around tomorrow during deadline if I'm doing my math correctly), I would honorarily support wagons on {Mirhawk, tictac, Axelrod}. Axelrod being a bit iffy, but better than nothing.

You too TPP. About the FS thing. Convince me? Or show me where you already made a convincing case which I failed to absorb because I'm not giving this game 100% because I suck. :/

Cerberus v666 wrote:Oh, also, ranger...please explain what about the posts of FS you've seen makes you feel they're scum.

Ahg. If you had asked this earlier, I would have done it, but I don't have the time anymore. :(

I don't even think I have the time to track down the explanations, some from me, some from others, on them. I'm sorry, I know I should especially given the current wagons, but I really need to log off. :/

One more word about where my vote is and I'm leaving it there and not moving it for the day.

I don't think that anyone with any experience at this game actually believes that because people aren't voting on a major wagon in a large theme on day one is because they are trying to force a no lynch through, especially when they say they'll be back before deadline. Therefore, it's looking a bit suspicious to me, like ogre is trying to look to proton by being tooooo concerned about the lynch. EGADS we only have 14 hours left whatever shall we dooooooooooooooo?????????

I think I like rangers last posts, but I only very quickly skimmed. I'll have to check back though, I thi she recently did the not claiming today as scum. I could totally be remembering that wrong, so don't me to this. More a reminder to myself to look back after work. Wouldn't mind a claim from friendless though!

And with that I'm off to work!