Mini Normal 2163: MItGBSMoD [game over!]

[shellyc]

bob ik ur towny god but please play less scummy/surface level

why do you TR someone playing scummy??!?

[shellyc]

how does his opener ping as town!bob

i don't think it was especially AI

[shellyc]

NDMath is scummy and quite apathetic but I will not lim an ascetic claim

also I'll pivot off plusjoy after a second read of their iso and because of the vagueclaim yesterday

tbh plusjoy might be right and I have been really wrong

I want to jump back on iv here

UNVOTE: PlusJOYED
VOTE: IV

[shellyc]

@teacher I'm not vanity voting; I tried to make sense of town!plus and I've come around to it temporarily

@NDmath lol am I known for overreaction now?

[shellyc]

I don't get a lot of plus' reads or maybe plusjoy suddenly became a scumhunting god

what if ND vs bob was scum vs scum

pedit: Saudade do you have any reads that don't revolve around kerset is scum?

[shellyc]

all your TRs are people that vote kerset...

[shellyc]

I don't feel like limming a doctor.

[shellyc]

SAUDADE IT'S NOT AN EXCUSE
- kerset claimed doctor
- they are either scum or doctor.
- if we lim them there is a >rand chance that we lim doc
- scum would kill them if they are truly doctor
- idk why you insist that they wont self resolve

[shellyc]

DOCTOR CAN PROTECT SOMEONE FROM A KILL

WHY WOULD SCUM NOT KILL KERSET

kerset has been *passive* but scum would still kill TPR!kerset

[shellyc]

NO QUESTIONS

[shellyc]

I retract my earlier statements

maybe voting kerset isn't that bad of an idea

[shellyc]

yes yes yes the rolestopper changes things

alright saudade calm down and I'll jump on kerset tbh
VOTE: Kerset

[shellyc]

I TR {Plusjoy Saudade ydrasse Andres mena}
lynchpool {kerset NDMath iv taylor}

[shellyc]

weird flex from osuka

I have been convinced by saudade

kerset has been null-to-scum and I shall not succumb to follow-the-PR

[shellyc]

ooh ok that's cool info

pedit osuka I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT SETUP SPEC BUT I KNOW ROLESTOPPER STOPS THE PR FROM WORKING
ROLESTOPPER CAN STOP DOC FROM MAKING A SAVE ON OUTED PR

[shellyc]

PAGETOP

[shellyc]

does rolestopper stop kills?

I am a mess right now

[shellyc]

let me dive kerset's iso again

[shellyc]

I hate kerset's deflect towards teacher

other than that kerset's iso has 0 good content

[shellyc]

we're splitting over

stay on kerset please

[shellyc]

? But my logic for not self-resolving doesn’t hold, I don’t think?

I don't care about whether their self resolving or not

their iso looks like LITERAL TRASH

[shellyc]

like tell me when kerset even tried to gamesolve

kerset/osuka/taylor is the solve

[shellyc]

or osuka TMI'ing

[shellyc]

idk why osuka adamntly TR'ing kerset

like theres 1+ scum within osuka kerset

[shellyc]

i can't really get to iv town with that slip

[shellyc]

oh really?

lmfao then I totally messed up

[shellyc]

{osuka, kerset, iv, taylor} is my new limpool considering everything

[shellyc]

like I'm fine with osuka but their posting was decent

kerset def scummier than osuka but i don't like "kerset is locktown"
iv slipped
and taylor is still not solving

[shellyc]

bob has a townie vibe but logically i think they've given 0 content

pedit ydra talk to me

[shellyc]

but ill compromise for saudade

what is this?

[shellyc]

also does rolestopper existing have any impact on the earlier ascetic claim alignment wise?

I don't think ascetic especially fits with rolestopper

rolestopper temporarily makes people ascetic

[shellyc]

DADDY

[shellyc]

Osuka TR'ing town!kerset and their scumbuddy pushes through kerset. kerset flipping town and osuka getting boats of towncred

scum!osuka could save scum!kerset with a bit of wifom

[shellyc]

ive seen scum!shelly, this doesnt look like scum shelly.

ongoing game reference

don't try to use activity = town

[shellyc]

read 2023 for scum and 2025 for town if you want to metadive

[shellyc]

in term of setup spec, does a doc and JK combo or doc and roleblock combo make sense? why does it matter?> and how does a rolestop counter doc?

it does not

I messed up

pedit: yes. you're reverse triple bussing.

[shellyc]

like tbh I dont remember anything about taylor except passivity and not solving

[shellyc]

taylor's play alludes to kerset's play

osuka is just weirdly TR'ing kerset

and iv slipped why would you cling on to scummate that slipped

[shellyc]

facts im disappointed in shelly

facts im disappointed in you plusjoy

[shellyc]

is ninja even normal

[shellyc]

kerset this is not a spamming contest and this makes me want to lim you even more

you're -10 on my radar

[shellyc]

I also dislike plus's flipping on reads

commit to your reads and night

[shellyc]

WHAT IS PERSONAL

[shellyc]

sorry didnt mean to caps lock that

[shellyc]

*factional.

Kerset tell me why you're not scum

[shellyc]

kerset is scum and we need to lim this today

their ISO has 0 content

[shellyc]

saudade is correct

plus stop thinking kerset saudade is TvT and accept reality

[shellyc]

no more pr bias please

[shellyc]

uhh i tr you for reasons I won't talk about and because of the pr claim which idk why in the world you would make

im still baffled at why you would claim

[shellyc]

I can't quote anything because it looks too bad

[shellyc]

Show me content in ISO of your sugar daddy saude

saudade tunnels you and you tunnel no one and just complain about how unlucky you got caught by saudade and randomly deflecting to teacher

pedit: I will try

[shellyc]

SHOW ME A QUOTE FROM MY ISO THAT PROVES YOUR POINT SHELLY
YOU CAN'T? HAHA I CAN'T DISCUSS WITH YOU, BECAUSE YOU GOT NO FACTS

Spam is useless smh

Ok i will be useful like saudade
vote teacher
vote teacher
vote teacher
vote teacher
vote teacher
vote teacher
vote teacher
vote teacher
vote teacher
vote teacher
vote teacher
vote teacher
vote teacher
vote teacher
vote teacher
vote teacher
vote teacher
vote teacher
vote teacher
vote teacher
vote teacher
vote teacher
vote teacher
vote teacher
vote teacher
vote teacher
vote teacher

quit spamming kerset

imagine a game where Kerset would actually actively participate in the ongoing game discussions pursue scumtells and towntells instead of victimizing himself and crying for 70 pages how the authority (me) is out there to get him with watashi no big dick(ego)

imagine saudade actually having arguments and pursing more then one scumtell/ making towntells, instead of: Kerset is bad bc she is bad, omg this person voted ker so they are my townreads! Second person votes with me? Second townread! I think that ker is scum form rvs, so as pro i don't to scumhunt over this entire game.

instead of expressing an SR in return of saudade's tunnel kerset just complains

ok teacher is scum

VOTE: teacher

Over first half of this game he wanted to eliminate swift, over second half he wanted to eliminate me. Now he hopes that he can support saude to get rid of me. His entire ISO is just bloodthirst to get the most popular slot voted out.

creepy deflect

Can we appreciate the way Ydra never dodges anything? Player, which knows that she is bad as mafia, stays here all the time to give us the highest possible amount of intel about herself. As scum she would run away at some point.

nice pocket dude

rest of iso is fluff seriously take a look

[shellyc]

ydrasse talk to me

[shellyc]

Hey look i am tunneling teacher, i am the goddess of towniess now. I need to check, who voted him, because this is my townread now. Praise my fellow townies, i am the town leader now.

why didn't you SR teacher until after you claimed

[shellyc]

and back to work i go

please hammer kerset asap

[shellyc]

kerset you're apparently a plagiariser

copying saudade's tunneling for cred

[shellyc]

VOTE: Kerset
everyone hop back on

[shellyc]

Why does rolestopper flip prove you as town? rolestopper doesn't mean assured ascetic claim

osuka I've been indecisive, I am fine with their wagon but I buy some of their logic tbh

[shellyc]

So kerset simply isnt a day one lynch. There are 3 scum alive so even if im wrong on kerset. That still means tehre is two scum to send to chopping block

this is weird

don't you want to get scum? "oh limming one scum means we have two more to go"

[shellyc]

i shallow meta dived bob they are a decent town player

I'm confused with their play here

[shellyc]

plus talk to me I think you're town but my gut has doubts

[shellyc]

There’s no way this is TvT right? Because if so, we really are screwed.

i think it is unfortunately

PLUS WHY DO YOU THINK EVERYTHING IS TVT

BECAUSE NO IT'S NOT

im skim reading the 11 pages real fast

vote stays on kerset but willing to compromise

[shellyc]

Saud, shelly, i would also suggest to both of you that osuka is the best place for your votes rn

after reading this yeah sure I'll join the osuka wagon

the problem with this game is we all have different ops of who we should lim

[shellyc]

i don't like mena's tunnel here they are getting super desperate

plus makes me go beep on my scum radar but I buy the soft

[shellyc]

VOTE: osuka

like tbh I am convinced my mena's osuka case and after a reread their posting is fluffy and really slimy

and iv's recent posting has +townpoints so there we go

[shellyc]

i don’t think I would ever be satisfied if my recent scumread who just did a bunch Fo scummy stuff started posting some towny thoughts lately but it seems like she is and that feels not really solvy to me and more bob-weave-dodge through the thread

I would be satisfied. I can't quote right now since im mobileposting though but once i get back to my desk i'll address this

I'm also townreading you due to something I won't talk about.

[shellyc]

iv is scummy but osuka is scummier

I'm not 100% flipping on you here - especially if osuka flips green

[shellyc]

uhh yeah

I read everyone on a scale, you were scummy and recently you got townpoints since I feel the reactions to what you missed are pretty geniune and also reason X so +townpoints but overall you're still in the scummy range

[shellyc]

i got pinged by her one thing but the logical reasoning isn't quite as good as i thought regardless i want to hear her response and then ill reevaluate tomorrow since she's not going today

I responded. Like I'm an emotion-over-facts person and I trust my gut

yes I take into account the scumslip but I could see town!iv that just was confused about the gating?

[shellyc]

Why is mena so low too

i get the sense without going through any mena meta that they have a reasonably expansive scumrange

Why is plusjoy so high xd

ive kind of gone through this and don't expect to convince anyone because i don't really have like a good towncase... but i still believe it and i have other reasons besides normal ones too

iv's readslist is pretty good tbh except the part where it's scumleaning on me

plus is a bit too high. my gut says plus is town and logic says plus is scum

[shellyc]

saudade taking everything into account whats your read on iv

[shellyc]

My reads go like this now

Ydrasse
teacher Saudade
Mena PlusJOYED Andres
NDMath bob
iv taylor kerset
osuka

pedit: when I say decent posting I mean like, better than average content

[shellyc]

I classify posting into tone and content. Osuka's tone is wack but their content is better than the average level of content in the game

for example I TR saudade on tone but tbh they've been giving average content

[shellyc]

also TR saudade because of the single-minded desire to get rid of kerset and osuka, my scumreads

[shellyc]

Taylor's been lurking which is pretty weird town!them does give content

[shellyc]

tbh the warring / division isn't helping; we should post our lynchpools

I stand by my reads list I posted earlier today

my vote stays on souk for now but im willing to compromise for a lim to get through

[shellyc]

*osuka

[shellyc]

i could possibly be sold on bomb
him being my main TR was kind of a meme

I don't get plusjoy sometimes

they play the game in a very *unique* way and I have concerns

why would you meme tr someone...

[shellyc]

Because of people like Ydrasse this town is just yelling contest. Reasons power are irrelevant as long as you yell them.

Kerset still fluffposting and moaning about how they're being tunnelled which does not read TPR

[shellyc]

my lynchpool is osuka / Kerset / iv

[shellyc]

I'm not cherrypicking. I'm describing how the majority of your posts look like and they are devoid of content

[shellyc]

I skimread when certain people post 10 pages each morning for me to catch up.

[shellyc]

I'll be more active in the thread now since I just smashed 2026

plusjoy I want to sort you but every time you post my gut pings
idk how to put it in words, plusjoy is just... concerning

[shellyc]

I'm not sure if I buy the Ascetic claim yet. If rolestopper is flipped it's probably real

NDMath's posting isn't especially good but I'm still feeling slight town lean due to the claim

[shellyc]

plusjoy I am legit so confused at every word you say

you think this is ate but at the same time give genuine advice to not feel burnout

[shellyc]

if this is town!iv iv can't help town at this point

venting frustration and self voting is anti-town and it's past the point where you can do anything

[shellyc]

it's conflicting because if its AtE it means scum!iv isn't actually burnt out they're just frustrated at how they're getting death tunnelled.

[shellyc]

compromise lies benefit scum a disproportionate amount of time.

plusjoy reads town to my gut and I remember the soft claim a few days ago but the mindset from posting is wack

[shellyc]

*compromise lims

[shellyc]

Bah! this does sound like verbatim of the AtE i used
but if you think limming you is fine for the greater good go ahead

[shellyc]

I am not interested in psychology plusjoy

besides they're not burnt out, they're just disappointed that they are death tunnelled and holding no influence so they'd rather die

[shellyc]

wtf? This game is pretty closely related to psychology

uhh yeah I meant more as to specific terminology used in psychology

I need to get your mindset to read you. making yourself unreadable is pro-scum

[shellyc]

daddy

[shellyc]

osuka if you are town nice job

This is scum that has given up

Not sure how else you could possibly interpret this

town that has given up...

Like I just recently got a lim in mylo using "this is scum that gave up" on an inactive poster

[shellyc]

scum in this chaotic mess can easily latch on to whatever wagon and get a free misaim

tbh I don't see scum!iv doing this

[shellyc]

*mislim

[shellyc]

lets dive deeper plusjoy

scum!iv uses AtE to do what exactly? get votes on himself?

[shellyc]

what is he trying to do by self voting

he gains nothing by doing that AtE so I can only interpret it as frustrated town

[shellyc]

ould have walked away after the self vote and come back later.

you're generalising too much

[shellyc]

And the more I read plusJOYED, the more I think they’re kind of informed about alignments and enjoying throwing darts from the sideline.

finally someone could put it in words

plusjoy confuses me

[shellyc]

why do people not see that IV is scum, the AtE is literally right there

he's not

iv is just frustrated town and he used the wrong method to vent his frustration

stop manipulating me into voting

[shellyc]

peddit: agree on taylor tbh

wtf taylor is just being passive and lurky and not even trying to solve

they're a scumlean and you're juet being agreeable

[shellyc]

I'd honestly prefer me to be elimed here over osuka

?????????

[shellyc]

I don't get why people don't consider the idea of mena vs osuka being TvT

not everything is TvT

[shellyc]

Here’s the thing. Menalque’s push on Osuka has been loud, obnoxious, and way overconfident. Menalque is either correct, Town, and will be completely obvious tomorrow. Or, he will try and sleaze his way out of a bad situation if Osuka flips Town, and we will have to make a decision as to whether he is worth listening to anymore, is Town, or is just Scum and needs to go.

it's more aggressive than effective, yes, but it's today's leading wagon

[shellyc]

andres sometimes limming the person town needs to lim is more important than limming your SR

[shellyc]

tbh I think 2954 reads scum for being focused / positioned in a world with townflipped iv

I have been confused at plusjoy's words a lot I want to scumread them but my gut reads town on them.

[shellyc]

plusjoy's ISO is messy

having weird, opportunistic reads and not actually doing much to solve

[shellyc]

I want to do osuka despite mena retracting
I'm fine with kerset
i don't really want to do iv
I kinda want to do bob tbh

[shellyc]

you're not an idiot I'm confunded by plus

but they are not today's elimination

[shellyc]

wtf do you mean im not doing stuff to solve? Unlike you I don't hop on every wagon I see. Which, now that I think about it, isn't that how you play scum? I may have to reevaluate my TR on you overnight

you're not doing stuff to solve and instead lazily deflect on me for stupid reasons. meta is trash

can we get a last minute plusjoy wagon?

[shellyc]

PlusJOYED is not solving, remember how they consolidated who voted who yesterday? easy way to get towncred

and now they're OMGUS-ing me

and they are just stuck on iv while refusing to consider anything other than TvT for everything else which is TMI

[shellyc]

The only reason why I am not on plus is because i dont think it's a viable wagon

but I want them ideally tomorrow

[shellyc]

DADDY

[shellyc]

let me explain my plus trajectory in more detail

at start of game I liked plus, early readslist and a TR on me. but as the game went on plus just got stuck on teacher / iv / NDMath and they're not doing anything.

they aren't trying to scumhunt tbh. they're trying to find a mislim which is iv and they just want to "reflect" their read on me which is fence sitting

they flip flop on their reads and it isn't logical. they appear to solve, but aren't doing anything with their solve.

I feel a different *vibe*. Feels like they're pushing an agenda by calling everything TvT. I think this might be TMI.

2027 proves town!plus can act like this but I just don't see town!plus here. As the day goes on PlusJoy just tries to navigate the thread with a survivalistic mindset.

the only thing that makes me doubt is the vagueclaim

[shellyc]

are you fucking with me here? Not that I really care, but I've done more to solve than you have AND you're the one who brings up meta the most tbh, while just hoping on whatever wagon is currently popular. This reaction legit looks like scum shelly from the last 2 games.

ok what have you done

like i don't wagon hop I townflipped on iv because of the reaction and you're just stubbornly stuck with scum!iv which isn't protown

scum!you shading me while not casting a vote or intent to vote or anything. setting me up for a mislim tomorrow.

[shellyc]

Like I'm tired of rolling scum I think my scumplay has been integrated into my townplay

I rolled scum in 2023 2026 and 2027 in a fortnight

[shellyc]

if this will flip scum I'm not going to be very surprised but i think it's town!iv being frustrated

of course if iv thinks this is for the greater good, i may switch wagons

[shellyc]

plus if you're super interested in town!me meta read 2025 but I got limmed d1 so yeah town!me is wack and worse than scum!me

[shellyc]

when is deadline

[shellyc]

oh nvm it's in 16 hours

I will hammer any vote if needed for obvious reasons we dont want no lim

[shellyc]

let me explain my plus trajectory in more detail

at start of game I liked plus, early readslist and a TR on me. but as the game went on plus just got stuck on teacher / iv / NDMath and they're not doing anything.

they aren't trying to scumhunt tbh. they're trying to find a mislim which is iv and they just want to "reflect" their read on me which is fence sitting

they flip flop on their reads and it isn't logical. they appear to solve, but aren't doing anything with their solve.

I feel a different *vibe*. Feels like they're pushing an agenda by calling everything TvT. I think this might be TMI.

2027 proves town!plus can act like this but I just don't see town!plus here. As the day goes on PlusJoy just tries to navigate the thread with a survivalistic mindset.

the only thing that makes me doubt is the vagueclaim

1. im pretty confident in my solve, iv literally scumslipped so we should have flipped him right there but mena fucked it up

as explained i can see town!iv doing that

2. TR on you is NAI

I see it as a potential pocket, especially as my towngame is weaker than my scumgame

3. I've explained why this is TvT but people seem to ignore me. I'm pretty confident in my reads

unfort your reads are probably wrong. if town are tvt-ing why are so many wagons forming? scum is def involved from VCA perspective

4. iv isn't a mislim. If I wanted a mislim I would have hammered Osuka, even if me and osuka were both scum it would have been better to kill them right there

Hammering osuka would make you obvscum

5.i flip flop my reads AND im stuck in my reads? This is hella hypocritical. You're misreping me here and you know it, this is a huge red flag

You're stuck in some of your reads and flip flopping in others which makes you look worse

6. I've done nothing to lamist really at all, why would I defend osuka when it would be way eaiser for me to join the wagon

joining the wagon is a much scumtell

Shelly looks reeeeeealllly sus here and I liked their opening but their vca and reasoning look really bad here

i don't wagon hop as scum tbh, self meta wise (not game related) I would say I wagon hop more as scum
and your defense is basically a strawman

[shellyc]

I kinda messed up the formatting

bold is mine

[shellyc]

plusjoy regarding tvts

do you think we are TvT'ing?

[shellyc]

Shelly looks reeeeeealllly sus here and I liked their opening but their vca and reasoning look really bad here

this is fence sitting tbh

preparing to say "I WASNT SURE ABOUT THEM" when I flip green

[shellyc]

welcome back, my biggest TR

I'm bickering with scum!plus

[shellyc]

like im fine to hammer anything since i do not want no lim

[shellyc]

firstly, no offense to plusjoy

secondly, i might just be super wrong but I cannot see town!plus

I remember that I got round to it but idk now

I am not fence sitting on you. I explained my progression

[shellyc]

consider this a psuedo-vote on plusjoy

besides, why would scum!me attack or case you when it's near end of day and I can just hammer iv or osuka here

[shellyc]

it's -EV to attack you as scum!shelly because 1) you know my meta and 2) I am free to hammer

you could say it's wifom but this comes from a town mindset and you know it

[shellyc]

if you think I'm scum I literally cannot be partnered with iv, he called me scum for calling him more town

and I've consistently scumleaned NDmath

[shellyc]

*deep breath*

nah osuka has an ok chance here

[shellyc]

Like why would I suddenly SR you when I can just hammer as scum

this does not make sense for scum!me

pedit: I'm scumreading you because I think you're scum. Don't get me wrong I don't personally dislike you or anything

pedit: I didn't know iv's scum meta

[shellyc]

consider this a psuedo-vote on plusjoy

besides, why would scum!me attack or case you when it's near end of day and I can just hammer iv or osuka here

because you want an elim that's not scum and iv is the only option atm?[/quote
so you think im partnered with iv which is near impossible tbh

[shellyc]

I hate phpBB

[shellyc]

there's a very little chance plusjoy is town now and I want them gone ideally tomorrow

pedit: which proves my point. im tunnelling you because i think you are scum.

[shellyc]

if I have to flip green to prove it sure

[shellyc]

i don't even know what you two are fighting about

I SR'd plusjoy for not trying to solve, they OMGUS and flip their TR on me and we're just trying to prove each other is scum at this point? is that an ok tl;dr

[shellyc]

irorny how the walls won't do anything

[shellyc]

*irony

DADDY

[shellyc]

Shelly I'd consider using your factional kill on me tonight
i've crumbed hard enough you can probably guess why

LMAO

which partner told you to crumb
why would a TPR crumb their role hard
it makes 0 sense

[shellyc]

Shelly isnt scun you are a very bad player plus

im not the one whose been sring obvtown kerset bro

LMFAO

KERSET IS SCUM

[shellyc]

plus you either have pathetically bad reads (which isnt possible because you are not a newbie anymore)
or you are scum

[shellyc]

i don't even know what you two are fighting about

I SR'd plusjoy for not trying to solve, they OMGUS and flip their TR on me and we're just trying to prove each other is scum at this point? is that an ok tl;dr

sxum!shelly is desperately trying to get an elim on me as per usual and projecting their flawed logic qnd trying to pretend it's my flawed logic

like why would scum!me actually SR you for three games

pedit: I'm not american lol

[shellyc]

plusjoy / kerset / osuka? LOL IS THAT THE SOLVE

[shellyc]

my reads are solid imo

I disagree with almost all of them

pedit: I wouldnt say it worked in 2027
also I have changed my scum meta tbh. 2026 is a better reflection of how I ideally want to play as scum

[shellyc]

what happened to teacher plus

[shellyc]

WHERE IS KERSET NOW E-2??

[shellyc]

my reads are solid imo

I disagree with almost all of them

pedit: I wouldnt say it worked in 2027
also I have changed my scum meta tbh. 2026 is a better reflection of how I ideally want to play as scum

yeah cuz ur probably scum

yeah cause you're probably scum

it's not me so it must be you

[shellyc]

weird flex again

I can actually consider a town!plus that has pathetically bad reads

[shellyc]

VOTE: Kerset

yes I will do the protown thing and push this
kerset is scum

[shellyc]

I am like fine with osuka or kerset but kerset wagon has more people now iirc
PEDIT NO YDRASSE NO
LIKE TBH YDRASSE ISNT SOLVING EITHER
but they give me such a townie vibe...

[shellyc]

so plus is bad town and we're TvT'ing

[shellyc]

i refuse to believe that

[shellyc]

shelly is probably just town and im OMGUS-ing cause shelly excels at pissing me off and being wrong

this makes me more pissed off

like theres no reason to trigger me

[shellyc]

Shellyc is my new favorite poster

comfy pockets

[shellyc]

I could be biased since I don't get along with them. It's possible that shelly is just VI'ing here

look at plus flip flopping on me again and deeming me VI

[shellyc]

plusjoy I'd prefer you to not use ad hominem and insult me

[shellyc]

was that hammer?

[shellyc]

smh ydrasse

it's clearly kerset and y'all just limmed frustrated town for ??? reason and i'm apparently OMGUS'd by plusjoy for reasons because I'm a VI

[shellyc]

plusjoy why did you soft your pr so hard wtf and now you ask to be nk'd

pedit: I don't want to piss you off im still SR'ing you for flipping randomly on me

pedit No

[shellyc]

ydra hammering iv is very scummy
it's literally ydra / kerset / plusjoy gg

[shellyc]

plusjoy when will you come around to town!iv

iv has quite the change of flipping green, i can't see a agenda / motive for the AtE

[shellyc]

Comprehensive review during night:

Tayl0r Swift - huge scumpings on this slot. ISO shows that they are agreeable and no effort into solving. Blending and no strong opinions, was on that ridiculous iv wagon opportunistically. Scummy
Andresvmb - some effort into solving, tone seems fine. But I have gut doubts here especially after rereading newbie 2023. Null, need to see more tbh, slightly town
teacher - Like his posting, scum!kerset wants him to be a mislim, rolestopper mistake is very genuine and they show logical trajectory. Townie
Saudade - Shows very townie emotions, no scum would tunnel someone from what, page 3? Their read on obvscum Kerset is great. Townie
Menalque - Competent player so I have doubts but thought process is fine and the way they defended IV was probably genuine. Nullish town
PlusJOYED - After rereading the confrontation I think the aggression is within their scumrange but it's likely TvT and I'm being wrong on them. Plusjoy does have a fairly weak scumrange (don't get me wrong, this isn't personal). Their reads are weird but scum probably does not go against the grain so much. Confusing posting but this seems TSTBS so townlean
NDMath - ascetic claimer + rolestopper makes sense. placing IV at E-1 isn't that good of a look. generally lurking. Agreeable and seems to want to dodge the thread rather than scumhunt. Scummy, but probs depends on bob's alignment here
Kerset - ISO devoid of content, teacher susp is a clear deflect, don't see doc playing like this. the scummiest person in this thread especially with iv townflip
bob3141 - again, falls into the "apathy + agreeable" category. ISO does not display a solving mindset. Vote on teacher looks super bad. Scummy
Ydrasse - Hammer was +scumpoints and ridiculous. I HATE THE HAMMER. but overall super townie vibe so probably downgrade to null here. Ydrasse crushed a newb game as scum so they have the potential as a deepwolf here. Null
osuka - Kerset / osuka is *probably* TvS here, with Kerset almost lockscum at this point. In hindsight when reading their ISO they are quite disagreeable and seem like classic lynchbait. Null but all depends on kerset.

[shellyc]

rip saudade you will be remembered

VOTE: Kerset

I will avenge you

[shellyc]

like tbh I think the hostility of bob towards teacher just incriminates them even more

teacher's reaction is quite geniune and i buy the informed townie claim so bob is just bullshitting

idk why bob just does not accept that teacher made a mistake because upon reread, the reaction seems to show real town emotion

bob's confusing shading of teacher gives me heavy scumpings

[shellyc]

Any chance someone wants to go through the VCs and colour them in for me?

I'll do it mena

[shellyc]

Although I’m not sure scum!ydrasse would hammer there outside of being partnered with osuka/maybe plusjoy bc she was probably meant to be the deepwolf if scum at that point and hammering is throwing that away for no reason

ydra hammering that is TSTBS IMO unless their partner is in a super good position

[shellyc]

like tbh I think the hostility of bob towards teacher just incriminates them even more

Why tho

And why does bob read as faked hostility but teacher reads as genuine

I think they both read quite genuine tonally

bob was directly hostile towards teacher at daystart, and i feel like they're trying to set teacher up for a mislim since I TR Teacher

[shellyc]

bob goes out there and shade teacher for what is probably seriously a mistake regardless of teach's alignment

which feels like shading to me its hard to explain

[shellyc]

Spoiler:

Vote count 1.01

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2020-09-18 21:30:00).

execution

teacher [5]:

Tayl0r Swift, PlusJOYED,

innocentvillager

, Ydrasse, osuka

Ydrasse [1]:

NDMath

NDMath [1]:

bob3141

Not Voting [6]:

Andresvmb, teacher,

Saudade

, Menalque, Kerset, shellyc

Vote count 1.02

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2020-09-18 21:30:00).

execution

teacher [2]:

Tayl0r Swift,

innocentvillager

innocentvillager

[2]:

osuka, PlusJOYED

Ydrasse [1]:

NDMath

NDMath [1]:

bob3141

Menalque [1]:

Kerset

PlusJOYED [1]:

Ydrasse

Not Voting [5]:

Andresvmb, teacher,

Saudade

, Menalque, shellyc

execution

teacher [3]:

Tayl0r Swift,

innocentvillager

, Menalque

innocentvillager

[2]:

PlusJOYED, Kerset

PlusJOYED [2]:

Ydrasse, shellyc

Ydrasse [1]:

NDMath

NDMath [1]:

bob3141

Menalque [1]:

teacher

shellyc [1]:

osuka

Not Voting [2]:

Andresvmb,

Saudade

execution

teacher [3]:

Tayl0r Swift,

innocentvillager

, Menalque

innocentvillager [2]:

PlusJOYED, Kerset

PlusJOYED [2]:

Ydrasse, shellyc

Ydrasse [1]:

NDMath

NDMath [1]:

bob3141

Menalque [1]:

teacher

shellyc [1]:

osuka

Kerset [1]:

Saudade

Not Voting [1]:

Andresvmb

Vote count 1.05

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2020-09-18 21:30:00).

execution

shellyc [3]:

osuka, Andresvmb, Ydrasse

teacher [2]:

Tayl0r Swift, Menalque

innocentvillager [2]:

PlusJOYED, Kerset

Kerset [2]:

Saudade

,

innocentvillager

Ydrasse [1]:

NDMath

NDMath [1]:

bob3141

Menalque [1]:

teacher

Tayl0r Swift [1]:

shellyc

Not Voting [0]:

Vote count 1.06

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2020-09-18 21:30:00).

execution

shellyc [3]:

osuka, Andresvmb, Ydrasse

innocentvillager [2]:

PlusJOYED, Kerset

Kerset [2]:

Saudade

,

innocentvillager

Tayl0r Swift [2]:

shellyc, NDMath

teacher [1]:

Tayl0r Swift

Ydrasse [1]:

Menalque

NDMath [1]:

bob3141

Menalque [1]:

teacher

Not Voting [0]:

execution

Tayl0r Swift [3]:

shellyc, NDMath, Menalque

shellyc [2]:

osuka, Andresvmb

innocentvillager [2]:

PlusJOYED, Kerset

Kerset [2]:

Saudade

,

innocentvillager

teacher [1]:

Tayl0r Swift

NDMath [1]:

bob3141

Menalque [1]:

teacher

Not Voting [1]:

Ydrasse

execution

Tayl0r Swift [3]:

shellyc, NDMath, Menalque

innocentvillager [2]:

PlusJOYED, Kerset

Kerset [2]:

Saudade

, osuka

shellyc [1]:

Andresvmb

teacher [1]:

innocentvillager

NDMath [1]:

bob3141

Menalque [1]:

teacher

Not Voting [2]:

Ydrasse, Tayl0r Swift

Vote count 1.09

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2020-09-18 21:30:00).

execution

Tayl0r Swift [3]:

shellyc, NDMath, Menalque

innocentvillager [3]:

PlusJOYED, Kerset, Tayl0r Swift

Kerset [2]:

Saudade

, osuka

teacher [1]:

innocentvillager

NDMath [1]:

bob3141

Menalque [1]:

teacher

plusJOYED [1]:

Andresvmb

Not Voting [1]:

Ydrasse

Vote count 1.11

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2020-09-18 21:30:00).

execution

Kerset [4]:

Saudade

, osuka, Andresvmb, Ydrasse

Tayl0r Swift [3]:

shellyc, NDMath, teacher

innocentvillager [3]:

PlusJOYED, Kerset, Tayl0r Swift

teacher [1]:

innocentvillager

NDMath [1]:

bob3141

plusJOYED [1]:

Menalque

Not Voting [0]:

Vote count 1.12

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2020-09-18 21:30:00).

execution

Kerset [4]:

Saudade

, osuka, Andresvmb, Ydrasse

Tayl0r Swift [4]:

shellyc, NDMath, teacher, PlusJOYED

innocentvillager [2]:

Kerset, Tayl0r Swift

teacher [1]:

innocentvillager

NDMath [1]:

bob3141

plusJOYED [1]:

Menalque

Not Voting [0]:

Vote count 1.13

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2020-09-18 21:30:00).

execution

Kerset [5]:

Saudade

, osuka, Andresvmb, Ydrasse,

innocentvillager

Tayl0r Swift [4]:

shellyc, NDMath, teacher, PlusJOYED

innocentvillager [2]:

Kerset, Tayl0r Swift

NDMath [1]:

bob3141

plusJOYED [1]:

Menalque

Not Voting [0]:

execution

Kerset [5]:

osuka, Andresvmb, Ydrasse,

innocentvillager

, Tayl0r Swift

Tayl0r Swift [4]:

shellyc, NDMath, teacher, PlusJOYED

innocentvillager [1]:

Kerset

NDMath [1]:

bob3141

plusJOYED [1]:

Menalque

Not Voting [1]:

Saudade

Vote count 1.15

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2020-09-18 21:30:00).

execution

Kerset [4]:

Andresvmb, Ydrasse,

innocentvillager

, Tayl0r Swift

Tayl0r Swift [3]:

shellyc, NDMath, PlusJOYED

NDMath [2]:

bob3141, teacher

innocentvillager [1]:

Kerset

plusJOYED [1]:

Menalque

Not Voting [2]:

Saudade

, osuka

Vote count 1.16

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2020-09-18 21:30:00).

execution

Kerset [5]:

Andresvmb, Ydrasse,

innocentvillager

, Tayl0r Swift,

Saudade

Tayl0r Swift [3]:

shellyc, NDMath, PlusJOYED

NDMath [2]:

bob3141, teacher

innocentvillager [2]:

Kerset, osuka

plusJOYED [1]:

Menalque

Not Voting [0]:

Vote count 1.17

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2020-09-18 21:30:00).

execution

Kerset [6]:

Andresvmb, Ydrasse,

innocentvillager

, Tayl0r Swift,

Saudade

, Menalque

Tayl0r Swift [3]:

shellyc, NDMath, PlusJOYED

NDMath [2]:

bob3141, teacher

innocentvillager [2]:

Kerset, osuka

Not Voting [0]:

Vote count 1.18

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2020-09-18 21:30:00).

execution

Kerset [5]:

Andresvmb, Ydrasse,

innocentvillager

,

Saudade

, Menalque

Tayl0r Swift [3]:

shellyc, NDMath, PlusJOYED

NDMath [2]:

bob3141, teacher

innocentvillager [2]:

Kerset, osuka

PlusJOYED [1]:

Tayl0r Swift

Not Voting [0]:

Vote count 1.19

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2020-09-18 21:30:00).

execution

Kerset [4]:

Ydrasse,

innocentvillager

,

Saudade

, Menalque

Tayl0r Swift [4]:

shellyc, NDMath, PlusJOYED, Andresvmb

NDMath [2]:

bob3141, teacher

innocentvillager [2]:

Kerset, osuka

PlusJOYED [1]:

Tayl0r Swift

Not Voting [0]:

Vote count 1.20

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2020-09-18 21:30:00).

execution

innocentvillager [5]:

Kerset, osuka, Andresvmb, Tayl0r Swift, PlusJOYED

Kerset [2]:

innocentvillager

,

Saudade

Tayl0r Swift [2]:

shellyc, NDMath

NDMath [2]:

bob3141, teacher

Not Voting [2]:

Menalque, Ydrasse

Vote count 1.21

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2020-09-18 21:30:00).

execution

innocentvillager [4]:

Kerset, osuka, Tayl0r Swift, PlusJOYED

Tayl0r Swift [2]:

shellyc, NDMath

NDMath [2]:

bob3141, teacher

Kerset [1]:

Saudade

PlusJOYED [1]:

Andresvmb

Not Voting [3]:

Menalque, Ydrasse,

innocentvillager

Vote count 1.22

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2020-09-18 21:30:00).

execution

osuka [4]:

Menalque,

innocentvillager

, Ydrasse, Andresvmb

innocentvillager [4]:

Kerset, osuka, Tayl0r Swift, PlusJOYED

Tayl0r Swift [2]:

shellyc, NDMath

NDMath [2]:

bob3141, teacher

Kerset [1]:

Saudade

Not Voting [0]:

Vote count 1.23

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2020-09-18 21:30:00).

execution

innocentvillager [5]:

Kerset, osuka, Tayl0r Swift, PlusJOYED, shellyc

osuka [3]:

Menalque,

innocentvillager

, Andresvmb

NDMath [1]:

bob3141

Kerset [1]:

Saudade

Not Voting [3]:

Ydrasse, NDMath, teacher

Vote count 1.24

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2020-09-18 21:30:00).

execution

innocentvillager [4]:

osuka, Tayl0r Swift, PlusJOYED, shellyc

Kerset [3]:

Saudade

, teacher, Ydrasse

osuka [2]:

Menalque, Andresvmb

NDMath [1]:

bob3141

teacher [1]:

Kerset

Not Voting [2]:

NDMath,

innocentvillager

Vote count 1.25

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2020-09-18 21:30:00).

execution

innocentvillager [3]:

osuka, Tayl0r Swift, PlusJOYED

Kerset [3]:

Saudade

, teacher, Ydrasse

osuka [2]:

Menalque, Andresvmb

NDMath [1]:

bob3141

teacher [1]:

Kerset

PlusJOYED [1]:

shellyc

Not Voting [2]:

NDMath,

innocentvillager

Vote count 1.26

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2020-09-18 21:30:00).

execution

innocentvillager [3]:

osuka, Tayl0r Swift, PlusJOYED

Kerset [3]:

Saudade

, teacher, Ydrasse

teacher [2]:

Kerset, bob3141

osuka [1]:

Menalque

PlusJOYED [1]:

shellyc

bob3141 [1]:

Andresvmb

Not Voting [2]:

NDMath,

innocentvillager

Vote count 1.27

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2020-09-18 21:30:00).

execution

innocentvillager [3]:

osuka, Tayl0r Swift, PlusJOYED

bob3141 [3]:

Andresvmb, NDMath, Ydrasse

teacher [2]:

Kerset, bob3141

Kerset [1]:

shellyc

osuka [1]:

Menalque

Not Voting [3]:

innocentvillager

, teacher,

Saudade

Vote count 1.28

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2020-09-18 21:30:00).

execution

bob3141 [4]:

Andresvmb, NDMath, Ydrasse, teacher

innocentvillager [3]:

osuka, Tayl0r Swift, PlusJOYED

teacher [2]:

Kerset, bob3141

Kerset [1]:

shellyc

osuka [1]:

Menalque

Not Voting [2]:

innocentvillager

,

Saudade

Vote count 1.29

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2020-09-18 21:30:00).

execution

bob3141 [4]:

Andresvmb, NDMath, Ydrasse, teacher

innocentvillager [2]:

Tayl0r Swift, PlusJOYED

teacher [2]:

Kerset, bob3141

Kerset [1]:

shellyc

osuka [1]:

Menalque

Menalque [1]:

osuka

Not Voting [2]:

innocentvillager

,

Saudade

Vote count 1.30

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2020-09-18 21:30:00).

execution

bob3141 [3]:

Andresvmb, NDMath, teacher

innocentvillager [3]:

Tayl0r Swift, PlusJOYED, osuka

osuka [3]:

Menalque,

innocentvillager

, Ydrasse

teacher [2]:

Kerset, bob3141

Kerset [1]:

shellyc

Not Voting [1]:

Saudade

Vote count 1.31

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2020-09-18 21:30:00).

execution

osuka [4]:

Menalque, Ydrasse, shellyc,

Saudade

bob3141 [3]:

Andresvmb, NDMath, teacher

innocentvillager [3]:

Tayl0r Swift, PlusJOYED, osuka

teacher [2]:

Kerset, bob3141

shellyc [1]:

innocentvillager

Not Voting [0]:

Vote count 1.33

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2020-09-18 21:30:00).

execution

osuka [4]:

Menalque, Ydrasse, shellyc,

Saudade

innocentvillager [4]:

Tayl0r Swift, PlusJOYED, osuka,

innocentvillager

bob3141 [3]:

Andresvmb, NDMath, teacher

teacher [2]:

Kerset, bob3141

Not Voting [0]:

Vote count 1.34

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2020-09-18 21:30:00).

execution

osuka [5]:

Menalque, Ydrasse, shellyc,

Saudade

, Andresvmb

innocentvillager [4]:

Tayl0r Swift, PlusJOYED, osuka,

innocentvillager

bob3141 [2]:

NDMath, teacher

teacher [2]:

Kerset, bob3141

Not Voting [0]:

Vote count 1.35

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2020-09-18 21:30:00).

execution

osuka [4]:

Ydrasse, shellyc,

Saudade

, Andresvmb

innocentvillager [4]:

Tayl0r Swift, PlusJOYED, osuka,

innocentvillager

bob3141 [2]:

NDMath, teacher

teacher [2]:

Kerset, bob3141

Not Voting [1]:

Menalque

Vote count 1.36

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2020-09-18 21:30:00).

execution

innocentvillager [4]:

Tayl0r Swift, PlusJOYED, osuka,

innocentvillager

osuka [3]:

Ydrasse, shellyc,

Saudade

bob3141 [2]:

NDMath, teacher

teacher [2]:

Kerset, bob3141

PlusJOYED [1]:

Andresvmb

Not Voting [1]:

Menalque

Vote count 1.final

with 13 votes in play, it took 7 to make a decision. day 1 ended.

execution

innocentvillager [7]:

Tayl0r Swift, PlusJOYED, osuka,

innocentvillager

, teacher, NDMath, Ydrasse

[HAMMER]

teacher [2]:

Kerset, bob3141

PlusJOYED [2]:

Andresvmb, Menalque

Kerset [2]:

Saudade

, shellyc

Not Voting [0]:

i wasted my life on this sorry for the godawful formatting

sorry, spoilering that -D

[shellyc]

imma go to bed now gn everyone I need sleep

[shellyc]

My solve is {Kerset, Bob, Ydrasse}. There’s an outside chance Tayl0r and plusJOYED are Scum, but I’ll push those slots later.

do you think scum!ydrasse would have hammered iv? i still think it's TSTBS though especially since they were supposed to be the deepwolf

[shellyc]

Also shellyc is Town. Sorry for doubting you shelly. You got a bit overly aggressive there and that gave me some Scum pings. But I was wrong I think.

comfy pockets; but fwiw i want to see a bit more progression since you were definitely scumreading me yesterday

[shellyc]

yeah i think the simplest solve for me rn is plus/kerset/osuka.

like again I think plusjoy being super duper wrong is weird, but at least reading again they do throw out reads and whatnot like town!plus

and they do have a fairly weak scumrange (this isnt personal btw) so im leaning town on plusjoy

I think its kerset / osuka / taylor and if one of them flips green it's probably bob

[shellyc]

Yeah I’m a Miller Town Checker.

LMFAO

WHAT ARE YOU DOING MOD

[shellyc]

i never doubted ndmath was ascetic, I think they are mafia ascetic

mafia ascetic + mafia rolestopper + mafia goon

doesn't make a single bit of sense for scum to have that much power against investigatives

[shellyc]

I think we need to blow up {Kerset, plusJOYED, NDMath}, and if the game isn’t over then pick your poison in {Tayl0r, Osuka}. Bob is probably fine. Ydrasse could have hammered to stop the move onto Kerset that Saudade wanted to push. I don’t know why that makes me dumb all of a sudden. Ydrasse very much sounded like Town but I don’t know that I would like gamble the whole game on it. Menalque and Teacher should be untouchable this game.

yeah I love this solve

this seems to be heading in the right direction

[shellyc]

cool saudade is dead and now i get instant L-2
You don't know how to make insightful NKA. We are talking here about saud, he is careless gamethrower. His existence was harmful to town and viging him would be worth it regardless of his alignment, so healing him was out of question. This guy misleads town to lynch his target regardless of circumstances to satisfy his ego. Hardclaimming bullshits is just one of throws typical for his behavior, he thinks that saying nonsense as town is 200IQ play, because thanks to his reputation he can get away with anything, once he rolls scum.
The most important information we got is scum lack of knowledge. Scum didn't know about his nature and took him seriously, which points at people with 2020 join date. Especially shelly, which periodically appears as more naive then she normally should be.

LMFAO SAUDADE TR'D ME WHY THE FUCK WOULD I KILL THEM

kerset bullshitting again

[shellyc]

Well shit, I don't see how this post could come from anywhere but scum even with my confbias. Guess I was wrong on you kerset

joyed i told ya you were incorrect

[shellyc]

kerset who did you protect

just because i have a 2020 join date you randomly WIFOM it onto me which isn't a town mindset at all

[shellyc]

rolestopper usually rolestops scum

you should have kept that info tbh, rolestopper will now probably target town

[shellyc]

teacher is informed that scum have a rolestopper.

but they dunno if it's gated or not

[shellyc]

so ascetic scum *might* make sense if scum only have a 1-shot rolestopper

pedit: we only have one ascetic claim so if stopper targets town 8/10 of us will return result

pedit: no result is better than guilty result end of convo also ascetic scum wont be affected by blocker when making the kill

[shellyc]

daddy

[shellyc]

where is kerset now, E-1?

[shellyc]

your tinfoil hat idea might work but idk if rolestopper stops NDMath and scum would need to be informed

[shellyc]

I'm currently scumleaning NDMath who is probable deepwolf here and also on iv wagon

what if they were a mafia gated commuter or something

[shellyc]

ascetic result is still more incriminating then green result though

[shellyc]

my lynchpool is kerset / osuka / NDMath / bob / taylor atm

probably in that order.

im still town on ydra it's TSTBS for deepwolf to hammer and their effort to solve and general town vibe

[shellyc]

we already have MILLER CHECKER LMAO, gated doc, ascetic, informed claim

[shellyc]

Generally massclaim here would hurt town since we already have a few claims tbh but i don't know much about massclaiming

pedit: when i reread the interaction with me seemed very genuine, you have effort to solve, and albeit your iv read wrong I dont see scum going against the norm that much

[shellyc]

this feels suprisingly bastard for a normal game lol. I also think so far we have too many prs so I think one of them might be fake

Usually there's 3 TPR against 3 goons, 4-5 TPR against 1-2 SPR from what i read

[shellyc]

Nonetheless if im asked to claim I will

[shellyc]

kerset is obvscum but I dont think ending the day now is beneficial

[shellyc]

your vague pr claim is also townier than i thought.

but I'm a tad surprised you didnt die

[shellyc]

what if checker is our only investigative

this setup is weird

[shellyc]

i want plusjoyed to fullclaim tomorrow or d4

[shellyc]

*if they're still alive by then

[shellyc]

misdirection?

@Adres are you a Universal Miller i.e. showing guilty to trackers and gunsmiths