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Newbie 1351: Hyrule's Under Attack.. Interesting..-GAME OVER

https://forum.mafiascum-staging.net/viewtopic.php?t=26724

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Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:01 pm
by Ineffective
Ok cool. This is in the bag then

Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:14 pm
by fferyllt
I think so.

Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:18 pm
by goodmorning
In post 1980, VisceraEyes wrote:How do you guys feel about massclaim? I'm starting to get paranoid about GM having so little to say in the face of votes falling off her...that seems like the kind of thing that would spur a townGM into a flurry of activity, not inspire uneasy silence. I want more dataz, and now Inef has me thinking scum are just going to leave her alive if she's town causing us headache tomorrow. I feel like a massclaim will give us something more to work with in this situation. Anyone agree?
Still a bad idea, and I've been busy today.
In post 1986, Ineffective wrote:Btw you are giving GM ammo for his arguement that we are scumbuddies and that im rolefishing lol
VE is my strongest townread. I don't think that you are buddies.
In post 1994, VisceraEyes wrote:I encourage that because it will give us information. For instance say they do as you say and claim PR. Then there's another PR. Now there are three PR claims and that narrows down one for sure scum. And who cares if they claim because you outted it? The point is for town to be truthful and EVERYONE claim anyway.

Anyway I'll make this really easy. I'm a
Town Doctor
. Now any additional PR's HAVE to claim in order to clear up there being more than 2 PRs.
Why in the fuck did you claim that? Doc is like the worst thing to claim, especially if you actually are the Doc (which I don't doubt).

Now I have to decide whether to jail(protect) you and leave your protect unprotected or to jail(block) Z or Ine and leave you unprotected.

Actually it is interesting that you claimed in green, considering...

Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:19 pm
by Ineffective
Considering....

Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:20 pm
by Ineffective
Goodmorning he explained why he did it in the same post you quoted... You seem to ask alot of useless questions

Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:26 pm
by VisceraEyes
This falls apart btdubz if feryl is scum and claims PR...just throwing that out there. Because I probably won't lynch her over GM this cycle and town probably won't lynch her over me when GM flips town.

If feryl claims PR then we've got some serious reading to do. Just saying.

Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:28 pm
by Ineffective
I was considering that as well... On the otherhand i have just seen so much geniune looking concern-based posts from her i just cant see it

Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:29 pm
by goodmorning
In post 2029, Ineffective wrote:Goodmorning he explained why he did it in the same post you quoted... You seem to ask alot of useless questions
Doesn't look like an explanation to me.
In post 2030, VisceraEyes wrote:This falls apart btdubz if feryl is scum and claims PR...just throwing that out there. Because I probably won't lynch her over GM this cycle and town probably won't lynch her over me
when
GM flips town.

If feryl claims PR then we've got some serious reading to do. Just saying.
I am flattered, VE. At any rate I'd certainly lynch her over you but I can hardly be said to agree with much of the Town this game.

Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:29 pm
by VisceraEyes
In post 2031, Ineffective wrote:I was considering that as well... On the otherhand i have just seen so much geniune looking concern-based posts from her i just cant see it
Yeah that's about where I'm at...I said it before, if she's scum she deserves to win. Period.

Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:30 pm
by VisceraEyes
In post 2032, goodmorning wrote:
In post 2029, Ineffective wrote:Goodmorning he explained why he did it in the same post you quoted... You seem to ask alot of useless questions
Doesn't look like an explanation to me.
In post 2030, VisceraEyes wrote:This falls apart btdubz if feryl is scum and claims PR...just throwing that out there. Because I probably won't lynch her over GM this cycle and town probably won't lynch her over me
when
GM flips town.

If feryl claims PR then we've got some serious reading to do. Just saying.
I am flattered, VE. At any rate I'd certainly lynch her over you but I can hardly be said to agree with much of the Town this game.
LOL I'm speaking in the context of feryl being scum, there's no way you'd flip scum in that scenario unless you're both fake-claiming. In which case, hats off. ;)

Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:31 pm
by goodmorning
That would be a hell of a gambit.

Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:32 pm
by goodmorning
At any rate I'm not sure why we're spinning hypotheticals without a claim from ff anyways, it's not like she won't be claiming sometime in the next day or two.

Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:33 pm
by fferyllt
I'll claim now if you don't want to wait for GiF.

Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:34 pm
by VisceraEyes
Just trying to prepare myself mentally...if my illusions are going to be shattered I want it to affect the game as little as possible.

Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:34 pm
by Ineffective
In post 2032, goodmorning wrote:
In post 2029, Ineffective wrote:Goodmorning he explained why he did it in the same post you quoted... You seem to ask alot of useless questions
Doesn't look like an explanation to me.

------

WHAT?!? He clearly said he did it to force everyone else to claim
In post 2030, VisceraEyes wrote:This falls apart btdubz if feryl is scum and claims PR...just throwing that out there. Because I probably won't lynch her over GM this cycle and town probably won't lynch her over me
when
GM flips town.

If feryl claims PR then we've got some serious reading to do. Just saying.
I am flattered, VE. At any rate I'd certainly lynch her over you but I can hardly be said to agree with much of the Town this game.
case plz... I just dont see how anyone in the game is more towny than ffer

Besides- i wouldnt consider lynching either one of them unless there is somehow 4 pr claims

Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:35 pm
by VisceraEyes
I can wait, we gots time I think...up to you though.

Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:35 pm
by Ineffective
In post 2037, fferyllt wrote:I'll claim now if you don't want to wait for GiF.
No- gif first

Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:36 pm
by fferyllt
In post 2041, Ineffective wrote:
In post 2037, fferyllt wrote:I'll claim now if you don't want to wait for GiF.
No- gif first
that's what I'd prefer.

Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:40 pm
by goodmorning
In post 2039, Ineffective wrote: case plz... I just dont see how anyone in the game is more towny than ffer
Making Town cases is stupid and something I have only done twice.
But yeah, I've had a fairly serious scumread on fff before and I don't like her instatownread of you. It's probably nothing though, I'm still rather certain it's you and Z.

Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:43 pm
by Ineffective
I was referring to a case on ffer that shows any hint whatsoever of scummyness- even. If she isnt the top of your foss list i want to see this because i cant comprehend anything-- aside one post-- that is even a tad bit questionable

Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:45 pm
by Ineffective
also ummm i dont question her townread on me at all because i am playing the epitome of my town game (minus extreme reaction tests that ive noticed tend to turn off forum-players)

Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:47 pm
by goodmorning
195 is my early-game case on her. Undoubtedly you will completely disagree with all of my points.

Well, I do question that townread because it strikes me wrong.

Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:50 pm
by Ineffective
Oh that horribly constructed case we were talking about earlier--- nothing else since then?

Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:51 pm
by Ineffective
Time for shopping catch you later. Plz do respond tho

Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 2:13 pm
by VisceraEyes
Spoiler: GM's fferyllt Case
10:
The jokey "So, are you Scum?" Maybe I'm pulling confirmation bias here, but it just strikes me wrong.

37: This list of her tentative light Townreads mostly consists of behaviours that can be displayed by either side, several of which she displayed as Scum in that other Newbie game.
39:
This post initially gave me slight (though granted, playstyle-based) Townfeels. Posting without reading is not something Scum often do. She has before. (Also, in one of my responses, I expressed the opinion that this was alignment-indicative (which I don't feel now). She ignored this.)

46:
I might be imagining a bit of tiptoeing. I might not.

50:
Same as 39.

54:
It's not sheeping really but that's the closest word I can think of.

56: Suddenly we're suspicious where we weren't before with no reasons to feel that way that we didn't have the last couple of times we posted.
69:
The beginning of what appears to be a loving relationship with OMGUS.

82:
The beginning of what appears to be a loving relationship with the "lurker=Scum" mentality. (In case someone doesn't know why this is a scumtell: it is much easier to accuse someone with no content than to try to find fake scumtells in the content of active townies.)

85:
Votes me, no appended reason.

88:
"Lack of case on Fro" when the post before was my case on Fro. "indicating you liked Eye's case/vote" when I stated that I liked his thought process. "going after low-hanging newb fruit" when the object of the game is to go after Scum, no matter their join date. "Going after low-hanging newb fruit" also implies that she
knows
they are not Scum.

92: Compare this with her later feelings, particularly those pertaining to the Fe/Deras thing. Even with no new developments in the situation she gets much harder on this point each time she revisits it.
96: Unmitigated WIFOM. Also ignores the point of my "interesting" read of it even though it's been rehashed to death by that point.
125:
Assumes 39 is alignment neutral (which it is, but at the time wasn't 100%). Assumes I was calling her tentative reads not alignment indicative when I said "they are indeed usually Town, but good Scum can fake it." Ignores 2/3 of the points I made in explanation. Harder on the issues from 92. Accuses me of OMGUS, despite the fact that my suspicions of Fro predate his suspicions of me (unless you think he was suspicious of me in 35, which is questionable).

126:
Made me sad. Also fails to provide reasoning as to why she thinks it is flails (yes, she's done it since, I'm getting there, she should have done it here).

129: Comes after several people have given reads, and doesn't really cover much new ground (if any). In one sentence accuses me of going after easy targets while staying off of the... easy... targets? SEEMS LEGIT.
Seriously, ask yourself: Who are the easiest targets in this game? Carey and Deras, right? Who's been going after them again? JUST SAYING. JUST. SAYING.
132: Who goes easy on someone acting scummy? SCUM
135: Gave me an "interesting." All the "Oh no, I don't know if I'll still be alive, oh darn" is just trying a little too hard. Plus it's basically saying "I'm just gonna go after one scumread at a time." Why? Can't come up with enough fakery for two?
145: Fluff.
157: This is actually something of a Towntell. Poor lonely thing.
175: Rather than just saying "I found it defensive and didn't like the Fe/Deras thing or your lack of vote on Carey," took the game back almost 100 posts and recycled arguments that had been responded to.
177: This is one of my posts. I am chronicling it here as the "OH SHIT" moment that made me do a complete 180.
179: Suddenly considering other suspects, so as to open up other potential mislynches.
181:
This is classic nervous Scum trying to masquerade as relaxed and groovy Town.

183:
Suddenly all the players have little things that "bother" her. ALL OF THEM (except Rev, I suppose) (interesting) (and Mac, but I don't know if he really counts yet)

Let's have a look:
me - lots of things.
Fro - lack of paranoia(!) and similar reads to others (HALF THE PLAYERLIST HAS THE SAME GODDAMNED LIST)
Fe- stepping in on the 33/35 thing
AT3 - approval of Fe stepping in and also his backing down
Carey - lurking and uselessness
Deras - lurking and absorbing tips on gameplay which sets his bar higher for her
Mac - nothing, he's posted all of four times
Rev - nothing (interestinggggg)


This whole PBPA is fraught with things I don't like. I've underlined a few things that I think are ambiguous with regard to divining feryl's alignment. Like, they give reasons for why they could mean that feryl is scum but lack any kind of reasoning as to why they make her scum as opposed to a townie saying the same things. The red statement is just false: someone focusing on lurkers is in no way indicative that the person is scum. It's not a scumtell to want to look at lurkers in the least, and this is painted as a scumtell (with reasoning attached and everything). Things I've italicized seem wishywashy by you or are completely null by definition.

The case itself isn't that convincing, but the effort is certainly a point in your favor. My only issue is that you've been calling feryl like hypertown for most of the time I've been in the game, and now you're going back on that saying that she could be scum based on
this case
which,
was
should have been to you
, still valid this whole time.
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