Irrespective of the tone in which our conversation went down: do you not see that she ignored my actual game related issues with her opening wholesale?
Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:35 am
by Gorkington
the worst wrote:do you not see that she ignored my actual game related issues with her opening wholesale?
i dont know how to respond to this without re-opening that conversation in a way that you wont like.
to be indirect about it, i do not feel as though anything in that conversation can or should be taken as alignment indicative, particularly on whether LLD should have been parsing your play at that point when she was likely upset with you, regardless of her alignment.
i think if you want to convince me LLD is mafia and you dont want me to unpack that conversation you should be trying to pull from other sources of her play as argument as to why shes mafia. which maybe is hard if youre town here and you think the most alignment indicative elements come from that section of her play.
but given that you dont want to talk about it, the clear strategic thing to do on your part is to work around it.
i sort of wish that i just hadnt asked about this now weeeee.
Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:38 am
by MegAzumarill
No kills tonight so the protectives did a good job
I'm agreeing that LLD's entrance is scummy. VOTE: LLD
the worst wrote:do you not see that she ignored my actual game related issues with her opening wholesale?
i dont know how to respond to this without re-opening that conversation in a way that you wont like.
to be indirect about it, i do not feel as though anything in that conversation can or should be taken as alignment indicative, particularly on whether LLD should have been parsing your play at that point when she was likely upset with you, regardless of her alignment.
i think if you want to convince me LLD is mafia and you dont want me to unpack that conversation you should be trying to pull from other sources of her play as argument as to why shes mafia. which maybe is hard if youre town here and you think the most alignment indicative elements come from that section of her play.
but given that you dont want to talk about it, the clear strategic thing to do on your part is to work around it.
i sort of wish that i just hadnt asked about this now weeeee.
It's almost like Worst is leaning on people's uncomfortableness with it and just pointing at the sign on the bus that says don't talk to the driver.
It's almost like I did address those concerns and I find those concerns bad, and the worst scummy for continuing to push them.
The Worst is playing a suicide bomber game at this point, Gork. They don't care about their perception after my flip. They nearly died yesterday. It's all about killing as many people as possbile and maybe living by making LLD vs. Worst the most insufferable apathy generating thing in the game.
Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:40 am
by Lady Lambdadelta
Also, I'm a VT with no abilities, claim whatever the fuck you like.
I'm agreeing that LLD's entrance is scummy. VOTE: LLD
You literally killed a townie yesterday as a compromise over me and now you're still here saying the SAME SHIT YOU SAID YESTERDAY without any change or reflection at all? Really?
Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:42 am
by Gamma Emerald
Why do you think Navi’s townflip specifically makes it so people should reconsider you?
the worst wrote:do you not see that she ignored my actual game related issues with her opening wholesale?
i dont know how to respond to this without re-opening that conversation in a way that you wont like.
to be indirect about it, i do not feel as though anything in that conversation can or should be taken as alignment indicative, particularly on whether LLD should have been parsing your play at that point when she was likely upset with you, regardless of her alignment.
i think if you want to convince me LLD is mafia and you dont want me to unpack that conversation you should be trying to pull from other sources of her play as argument as to why shes mafia. which maybe is hard if youre town here and you think the most alignment indicative elements come from that section of her play.
but given that you dont want to talk about it, the clear strategic thing to do on your part is to work around it.
i sort of wish that i just hadnt asked about this now weeeee.
Gork, I'm imploring you to look at the group of people currently voting me (Kazyan, Worst, Meg) and try to find a good faith reasonable argument about why I'm scum from ANY of them that you can agree with.
They won't interact with me, god knows. So I want you to try and if you can't find a good reason?
I want you to consider whether all 3 of those names can be town, given the circumstances.
And then work with me on what that means.
Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:43 am
by MegAzumarill
I mean I re thought over it
Its still scummy
Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:45 am
by Lady Lambdadelta
In post 2131, Gamma Emerald wrote:Why do you think Navi’s townflip specifically makes it so people should reconsider you?
Because you have two options after that 7:5 vote.
The Worst is scum
or
The Worst is a claimed PR townie.
Right?
So if the worst is a claimed PR townie, and the scum team had a 7/5 vote they could manipulate how they wanted at end of day?
Why did the scum team vote out Navi instead?
Further, if I'm scum and sitting on the Worst!town all day, do you really think I'm not goign to get my scum buddies to kill worst after the claim if I know for a FACT Worst is a town pr at that point?
Or do you think the ENTIRE SCUM TEAM WAS ON THE WORST?
Which one is it? Like, how does the outcome of yesterday (Navi dead 7-5) line up with me being scum and the worst being town. Answer that. How can that be the case?
In post 2131, Gamma Emerald wrote:Why do you think Navi’s townflip specifically makes it so people should reconsider you?
Because you have two options after that 7:5 vote.
The Worst is scum
or
The Worst is a claimed PR townie.
Right?
So if the worst is a claimed PR townie, and the scum team had a 7/5 vote they could manipulate how they wanted at end of day?
Why did the scum team vote out Navi instead?
Further, if I'm scum and sitting on the Worst!town all day, do you really think I'm not goign to get my scum buddies to kill worst after the claim if I know for a FACT Worst is a town pr at that point?
Or do you think the ENTIRE SCUM TEAM WAS ON THE WORST?
Which one is it? Like, how does the outcome of yesterday (Navi dead 7-5) line up with me being scum and the worst being town. Answer that. How can that be the case?
Same question then, Meg. How does Navi town+ Worst town + LLD scum add up with the results of yesterday after the worst's claim and the vote being 7-5?
Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:49 am
by Lady Lambdadelta
Like if the Worst is scum it adds up, sure.
But then you should be voting for the Worst.
So I assume you think the Worst is town.
So if we had 2 town wagons yesterday at 7-5, meaning scum has full control over who dies.
Why did Navi the VT die over The Worst, the CLAIMED PR?
Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:50 am
by Lady Lambdadelta
That is the re-evaluation people should be doing and simply aren't.
well i tried with one of them and now im just a big sad :v
i technically owe the worst a reread of his ISO and i would ideally like for him to contextualize his read on unwnd better which i could then try to parse.
i can also try to commit to eventually try to do the whole bother people to figure out why theyre doing what theyre doing that youre talking about here but it doesnt really feel like tonight is a night for tryharding for me.
i get where youre coming from on the wagon on you so far feeling a little sparse in terms of explicit reasoning from the people pushing it, but i feel like if you want to question the votes on it, if they refuse to answer you then that just looks bad on them and discredits the wagon on you?
lld wrote:Why did Navi the VT die over The Worst, the CLAIMED PR?
i feel like scum can be uncomfortable pushing a claimed PR based on optics? even if it would have technically been the optimal thing to do, if i were scum in this game i would have been incredibly uncomfortable trying to push that wagon through knowing how hard it would be to justify how it looks with the flip.
, why does it feel like youre acting like a passive presence in this game
when my entire impression of your towngame is that youre uncompromising and aggressive
They're not amazing pelts but that's jus how I feel
why are you even acting confident about said read on murdercat now when you literally seem unimpressed with your own reads here going into n1
why murdercat over gamma now
unwnd wrote:Right now I'm starting to think you're not scum, just because I think the things you're saying make sense. If this is your own scumplay diverting me then we can end up 50/50. Why do you get into a shitpit with LLD who is able to amass a large crowd and very often get what she wants. You're brave but not stupid.
How hot and bothered do you get as scum? How personal is this affront I mentioned?
what was it from the batch of posts from the worst above this that made you think he was being genuine.
go into extreme detail.
make me believe that you believe what you believe.
I'm not any less of who I am, but the statements of passiveness and concern for my missing ferocity are strange.
Basically, I'm trying to keep myself grounded. Fire burning in me and displaying my passions doesn't need to become overwhelming. I believe in MCat/Gamma just as much as I would making 20-40 something extra posts to make my point; This pace is more much doable (for myself) without just trying to outlast scum. That's a strategy employed before with varying results. In NQN Me/Cabd/Pooky/Others all buried scum under pressure to keep up. In Bloodstained, I believe scum got away because they hid behind the lost morale of town but also the chaos it brung. Not to take away from their victory but I was mislimmed because people thought I was intentionally bringing this about.
In short, I'm a type of player who really thinks about outcomes of games and what I could've done better, win or lose. Then I adapt based on slight alterations.
--
When it comes to my worst read, my thoughts were earlier with 1, 2, 3.txt I posted to you that you seemed to disagree on. I don't really feel like explaining it again so if you need me to reference this more intently I'll do so.
lld wrote:Why did Navi the VT die over The Worst, the CLAIMED PR?
i feel like scum can be uncomfortable pushing a claimed PR based on optics? even if it would have technically been the optimal thing to do, if i were scum in this game i would have been incredibly uncomfortable trying to push that wagon through knowing how hard it would be to justify how it looks with the flip.
Not only that, from a scum perspective they also probably don't know if Navi is a PR, and Navi would theoretically be much harder elimination on a later phase than TW (as if TW's role was confirmable as town they'd probably have said so) I'd say its still a viable choice for scum to pick a navi wagon over TW there.
I don't really enjoy your attitude of "can't have anything scummy against me ever be valid"
It feels very chainsawy and self-preservy.
Doesn't give off solvy vibes, just
well i tried with one of them and now im just a big sad :v
i technically owe the worst a reread of his ISO and i would ideally like for him to contextualize his read on unwnd better which i could then try to parse.
i can also try to commit to eventually try to do the whole bother people to figure out why theyre doing what theyre doing that youre talking about here but it doesnt really feel like tonight is a night for tryharding for me.
i get where youre coming from on the wagon on you so far feeling a little sparse in terms of explicit reasoning from the people pushing it, but i feel like if you want to question the votes on it, if they refuse to answer you then that just looks bad on them and discredits the wagon on you?
lld wrote:Why did Navi the VT die over The Worst, the CLAIMED PR?
i feel like scum can be uncomfortable pushing a claimed PR based on optics? even if it would have technically been the optimal thing to do, if i were scum in this game i would have been incredibly uncomfortable trying to push that wagon through knowing how hard it would be to justify how it looks with the flip.
I mean, Navi was a compromise wagon, right? It'd be easy enough to say "I prefer flipping the Worst and getting info on LLD over flipping a compromise".
Right? Like there's no way you can't find a good acceptable reason to flip the Worst there.
lld wrote:Why did Navi the VT die over The Worst, the CLAIMED PR?
i feel like scum can be uncomfortable pushing a claimed PR based on optics? even if it would have technically been the optimal thing to do, if i were scum in this game i would have been incredibly uncomfortable trying to push that wagon through knowing how hard it would be to justify how it looks with the flip.
Not only that, from a scum perspective they also probably don't know if Navi is a PR, and Navi would theoretically be much harder elimination on a later phase than TW (as if TW's role was confirmable as town they'd probably have said so) I'd say its still a viable choice for scum to pick a navi wagon over TW there.
I don't really enjoy your attitude of "can't have anything scummy against me ever be valid"
It feels very chainsawy and self-preservy.
Doesn't give off solvy vibes, just
trying to stay alive
vibes
Breaking this down point by point
1) Navi is not a harder elimination than the worst as proven by yesterday. Navi was checked out and elimination bait, the worst is actively defended.
2) "Can't have anything scummy against me ever be valid" You haven't provided anything scummy. You've said, and I quote "LLD's entrance is bad" and "I reconsidered and it's still bad". Well, I don't think my entrance is bad, and more over, I know I'm town so why would I agree with your assessment here? Not only are you not saying anything about WHY my entrance is bad that I can defend myself against, but also you're talking as if you expect me to agree with you that I'm scummy somehow.
2.1) Also, I have, infact, copped to several things I've done this game. Including when Dwlee said I went 0 to 100. If you'll recall, I said "yep I did that, I don't agree it's scummy". So I have, infact, agreed to what others are saying. Your issue here is that I won't admit to being scummy which, given I know my rolepm says town, would be literal game throwing to do.
3)That's not what Chainsaw means. Chainsaw means defending someone else. Much like the way you defended the Worst yesterday. Chainsaw means stepping in front of someone else's questioning line to defend a person when you're not involved. For someone who agreed that I was apparently using buzzwords yesterday, you're using one here and misapplying it.
3.1) I'm being self preservationist because I know I'm town and I'm arguing against bad arguments? I would note that I have yet to do any kind of self preservation arguments, but even if I have, defending yourself against pushes and making others see you as town is as important to being town as catching scum is. It's not scummy to argue why you're not scum.
4)I have literally been trying to solve this game since the moment I entered, and you should know this because that entrance of mine you are critiquing? The one you say is scummy? Involves me trying to solve and sort Dwlee's alignment. I have also stated townreads on several players, and even given a semblance of a readslist to explain my positions on multiple players.
4.1) "Just trying to stay alive": see 3.1
Your argument holds no water, as explained above, and none of this is remotely a good reason to scum read someone.
Further, your focus on me lays bare something interesting. For someone concerned that I'm not doing any solving? Why aren't you trying to solve the game, Meg? You're hyper focusing on me and giving basically nothing while doing it, why aren't you engaging in other places trying to solve?
I'm going to shout this to the heavens, that if anyone has claims that can counter-claim this or provide another reason why someone didn't die, if town, you HAVE to claim it.
Because if we have nothing else in the town, that's 2 confirmed townies and we can do a lot of work from there.
Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:24 pm
by Dwlee99
LLD do you still think I'm super evil baddie of bad
I'm going to shout this to the heavens, that if anyone has claims that can counter-claim this or provide another reason why someone didn't die, if town, you HAVE to claim it.
Because if we have nothing else in the town, that's 2 confirmed townies and we can do a lot of work from there.
Also, before people make claims I'm rolefishing or something.
It's much more important we nail down whether there is any other possible outcome NOW so scum can't fuck around and fake something LATER. We should work on confirming two people now, if possible.
Well, mostly confirming. Mafia could have chosen to No Kill but... we can discuss that kind of outcome later if the Worst is still alive and hasn't been killed for a doctor claim.
