Mini 298: Caddyshack - Game Over!


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Post Post #225 (ISO) » Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:09 am

Post by Glork »

Oh, endgame...... gotta love it.


I'm guessing that Ibby is legit based on her nabbing of Raj as the SK. So I think things are between PJ and myself.

Since I know I'm innocent, and that Ibby likely investigated PJ already (hence her turn-around regarding him earlier in the game), I'm going to assume that she investigated me as innocent last night, and that we can conclude that the GF is investigation-immune.


So, either PJ is scum, or I'm scum.


First, the issue of PJ's role and his resulting guilt or innocence.
While I'm perfectly willing to accept that PJ did indeed search out and find CoolBot, becoming masons with him. I'm also willing to accept that his interaction with Lacey is as he says it is. I had figured something similar when PJ mentioned voteblocking the other day. However, that doesn't mean that PJ is a confirmed innocent. I've scoured the initial posts, and nowhere have I found any indication that masons are guaranteed-legitimate.
The timing of CoolBot's death also fits in very.... conveniently... with this revelation. Consider the fact that yesterday, for a massclaim, we knew there Ibby was a cop and that there would be a doc, most likely, who would be accepted as being innocent. With five players left, that leaves three claims to be had. Suppose Beaker been killed instead of CoolBot. CB and PJ could claim masons, but when the question of "guaranteed innocence" came up, we don't know what that answer would have been. It seems to me that PJ had to shut up his mason-mate in order to protect the notion of "guaranteed innocence of masons."

Consider also Night Three. That's the night in which nobody died. We know from Pwnz that he protected me that night. As I said, there are two scenarios that come from such facts. Either Raj and the Mafia GF both targeted me, or Raj targeted me, and the Mafia GF (be it me or someone else) chose to No-Kill.
The former scenario is pretty self-explanatory. SK and scum made their choices. The latter scenario means that the GF must've had a reason to No-Kill. To set up a WIFOM situation? A possibility. However, to set up a WIFOM like that would take several assumptions and/or risks that, quite frankly, I cannot believe any reasonable player would take.
To explain myself, I'll pose the hypothetical situation in which I am the GF and elected to No-Kill. In such a scenario, I could be cleared if in fact the Doctor were to protect me. Lo and behold, that's exactly what happened! But is it feasable to assume that the doc would protect me of all people? Absolutely not.
I can't see any other feasable explanation as to why there would have been no deaths on Night Three.


Vote: PJ
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Post Post #226 (ISO) » Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:12 am

Post by Glork »

Gah, I'm dead! I wasn't quick enough on the uptake. Oh well. I put a lot of effort into that post, too. And Ibby had to be all hasty in voting me.












Too bad she was right. In the end, there were just too many confirmable roles. I was just stuck in a really unfortunate position.


Good game, everyone. Well-played all around.
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Post Post #227 (ISO) » Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:13 am

Post by Glork »

Also, that town was pretty stacked.... Cop, Roleblocker, One-shot Vig, Masons (albeit limited ones), Self-protecting doc. Ouchies. :P
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Post Post #228 (ISO) » Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:14 am

Post by ibaesha »

Uhm... Glork, you're dead. I still believe PJ though. I just can't see a Godfather mason. If I'm wrong about that, ahh well..
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Post Post #229 (ISO) » Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:19 am

Post by ibaesha »

*huggles Glork*

If it's any consolation - I thought you were pro-town all the way through until today.
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Post Post #230 (ISO) » Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:40 am

Post by Nazgul »

Bah. Congrats town, thanks mod, and too bad, Glork. You played well, I thought.
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Post Post #231 (ISO) » Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:35 am

Post by cropcircles »

I would post endgame thoughts, but apparantly I'm lurking, so I'll just get back to that.
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Post Post #232 (ISO) » Sat Apr 08, 2006 10:15 am

Post by ibaesha »

I had your back. :wink: But no one would listen.
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Post Post #233 (ISO) » Sat Apr 08, 2006 10:30 am

Post by petroleumjelly »

Yeah, I backed off you as well, Cropcircles (however much my vote was worth on Day One). Notice the two people pushing for your lynch the most heatedly turned out to both scum, though: Raj (SK) and Nazgul (Goon).

Anyhow, that was a rather quick game, and it very easily could have gone differently: if scum hadn't crosskilled N1 (Passdog), if they both hadn't targeted Fritzler N2, if scum hadn't done who knows
what
N3 (Raj target Glork and Glork no-killed?)... hmm. Glork even got us to lynch Beaker before finally catching him, so props for that. I thought this game could go either way, personally, and that's an indication of a fairly balanced game. Although the town may have seemed "stacked" against the Mafia, with the addition of a SK to potentially kill off another townsperson each night, the "stacking" decreases dramatically.

Well played for the most part, and thanks much for modding, Elvis_Knits! You had some rather interesting flavor throughout the game, surely. :wink:
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Post Post #234 (ISO) » Sat Apr 08, 2006 10:54 am

Post by pwnz »

Congrats town.
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Post Post #235 (ISO) » Sat Apr 08, 2006 11:38 am

Post by Beaker »

yea, Elvis, great flavor, and a very balanced game

glork...nice job, but not good enough
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Caddyshack (vanilla townie)
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Post Post #236 (ISO) » Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:49 pm

Post by Glork »

petroleumjelly wrote:Anyhow, that was a rather quick game, and it very easily could have gone differently: if scum hadn't crosskilled N1 (Passdog), if they both hadn't targeted Fritzler N2, if scum hadn't done who knows
what
N3 (Raj target Glork and Glork no-killed?)... hmm. Glork even got us to lynch Beaker before finally catching him, so props for that. I thought this game could go either way, personally, and that's an indication of a fairly balanced game. Although the town may have seemed "stacked" against the Mafia, with the addition of a SK to potentially kill off another townsperson each night, the "stacking" decreases dramatically.
Oh, I agree with this completely. The game was very balanced overall. It was just unfortunate the way things worked out.

Regarding N3: I had targeted RAJ to die. I'm guessing that, as an SK in this type of game, Raj had a one-time nightkill immunity. I targeted Raj, Raj targeted me, neither of us died.

Also, I thought for much of the game that Coolbot was a cop with an N1 guilty on Nazgul. He kept his vote on Naz the entire time except when he hammered Cropcircles, and he went right back to Naz on Day 2. That's why I was so willing to pressure Naz as well.... it just so happened that I got to look ridiculously pro-town in the process, since I also helped weed out the SK in the game.
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Post Post #237 (ISO) » Sat Apr 08, 2006 4:18 pm

Post by petroleumjelly »

Well, I'll act as if Elvis_Knits has posted the death scene, then. I had better not get mod-killed for this. :P

Here is the very little Mason conversation between Coolbot and myself.

Night Two, upon finding each other:
PJ wrote:Howdy, Coolbot!

All right, cool that you found me. I thought rajrhcpfreak was claiming Maggie when he posted his dog Maggie May, so I tried targeting him. Good thing you found me though, since I was planning on going off on you tomorrow for hammering Cropcircles.

Anyhow, Ibaesha is Lacey Underall. The deal with my role is that I am supposed to search for you (Maggie O'Hooligan), but if I happen to target Lacey Underall, you would beat me to the point where I wouldn't be able to vote the next day. As it happens, I naturally targeted Lacey Underall N1, and so you commenced with the beating. This of course explains why I was so readily voting for Ibaesha D1, but I have not yet decided if Lacey Underall would be scum or not in this game.

I'll give a quick overview of my opinion on this game now that I know you are a Mason later.

Jelly
CoolBot wrote:All I really suspect right now is Nazgul, for the reasons I stated in the thread.

Lacey Underall could be the third scum. I figure Judge Smails is the GF. That would make three, which is a tad much when there's an SK, but it's not unknown. i think the gopher is probably the SK, but really don't have any idea who it might be.
PJ wrote: Howdy Coolbot!

Now that you're a Mason buddy you have to (get to?) look at most of my notes on everybody in this game. So:

*Ibaesha – Lacey Underall. Probably not a Vanilla Townie (“doesn’t know” about Vanilla Townies). I am becoming more confident that she is probably scum in this game: advising against a bandwagon while saying nothing as to why it should be stopped doesn’t seem very pro-town (in the case of Cropcircles). However, the fact that she referenced that my curiosity in her might kill me (which was originally what Elvis_Knits intended if I searched for her instead of you) makes me wonder if she is also in on the Danny/Maggie/Lacey Mason thing, and that is a pro-town player who simply happens to know the consequences.

*Fritzler – Probably is not a Doctor or a Vanilla Townie (for chastising the Doctor for not protecting LML, and by doubting there are any Vanilla Townies in this game). I otherwise have little ideas as to his alignment, he has been generally unreadable to me for almost every game I’ve had with him. Although I should remember that I will be posting this at the end of the game, and this could actually encourage him. So I will now state that I think I have found a scum tell for Fritzler, which I won’t mention here. *looks about just in case*

*Glork – Is probably not a Vanilla Townie (because he posted, “urge to lynch: rising”). Added to your defense of Beaker early. He finds Nazgul scummy, which I certainly cannot contest, but shows interest in Raj. He is giving me pro-town vibes, but he is also tricksy scum.

*Rajrhcpfreak – Is not a Vanilla Townie (agreed with Fritzler that there probably are not any), and is probably not the Doctor (since he was not surprised by LML’s death, and hence likely would have protected him). Didn’t think Beaker was scum. Correctly called out the worthlessness of Cropcircles entrance to the game… but he also kept his vote on Cropcircles after admitting that Cropcircles had said something helpful. Unsure on alignment.

*Pwnz – Told me not to assume as to the set-up of the game: which may mean he knows something of the set-up (i.e. scum), while asking me whether or not I had any information on Ibaesha (fishing). If either Pwnz or Ibaesha turn up scum, I think there is a fair connection between these two.

*Nazgul – So few posts it’s hard to read him. However, he tried to deflect attention from himself to Beaker at one point, so they’re probably not scum together, if at all. He is probably scum who thinks he can skirt by posting every once in a while and trying to implicate the same person each day. We’ll see what happens tomorrow.

*Beaker – No read on whatsoever, because of the scarcity of posts. May have implicitly defended Nazgul in his final post, however, by asking you directly why you thought Nazgul was scummier than Cropcircles, even though he says he does not support the Cropcircles. This seems like a bit of doubletalk to me (“Cropcircles isn’t scummy, but how can Nazgul be scummier?”), and I wish I would have caught it earlier and forced him to address it. Probably not with Nazgul, however, if he turns up scum.

Possible Doctors: Ibaesha, Glork, Pwnz, Nazgul, Beaker.
Not Vanilla Townies: Ibaesha, Fritzler, Glork, Raj.
Possible Mafia: Hm. Thinking Ibaesha (with Pwnz), Nazgul (with ???)
Possible SK: I have little experience in picking out SKs, but best is Nazgul at this point

Ah, and I agree with you. Mafia Godfather is probably Judge Smails, and I can very easily see Lacey Underall as the third goon. The SK is almost certainly the gopher.

Watch for the method of death tomorrow.

Spaulding Smails used wads of money (will not come up).

The gopher mauls people to death.

Jack Daniels lit on fire initially seems like something the Bishop would do (as a drinker, but LML was the Bishop), but note there is a conversation between Judge Smails and the Bishop in the movie over drinking. Judge Smails is probably the Jack Daniels killer, if Elvis_Knits gave them each one specific kill.

It’s difficult to speculate as to the fourth killing method, but ones that would almost definitely suit Lacey Underall (if Ibaesha is scum) might be (although not limited to):
-Tying somebody up with ties
-Anything involved with “skinny skiing”
-Anything involved with “bullfights on acid”
-Anything involved with tanning lotion

In fact, as I’m finishing up this post, I am becoming more and more confident that the Mafia group is probably indeed Judge Smails (GF), Spaulding Smails (Grandson of Judge Smails), and Lacey Underall (niece of Judge Smails). They have one scene altogether (with Dr. Beeper, or something), and they are as much as antagonists as any other characters.

Ah, and to address your point concerning scum and SKs, I've seen plenty of games with 3 Mafia members and a SK. I think this is another one of those games.

Jelly
On Night Three:
CoolBot wrote:I'm not sure why Spaulding Smails & Carl Spackler would be scum together. I don't remember any relation between the two, but it's been a while since I watched the movie.

I'm a bit suspicous of pwnz, but I'll have to reread before I have a better idea.
PJ wrote: Yeah, can't really think of why Spaulding Smails and Spackler would be scum together either. Perhaps Elvis was more random than we thought.

In other news, I am now pretty sure Ibaesha is actually innocent: the "ball cutter" was clearly Spackler (sharp gardening tools mentioned explicitly), so all we need to do is figure out who would kill people by dousing them with Jack Daniels and lighting them on fire (which does not really fit with Lacey Underall). In fact, Ibaesha may even be a Cop: her sudden change of opinion on voting me might mean she investigated me last night and got an innocent result. Hopefully our Doctor takes note of that.

But I agree, Pwnz is still worth looking at. He seemed to advocate Nazgul without actually ever voting him, and its fairly certain that Beaker is probably not the GF (since he made a PBPA of Nazgul). Glork also "had his own reasons" for hammering Nazgul, we'll have to see what those are tomorrow.

So, best guesses at the moment:

GF - Pwnz
SK - Raj/Beaker (Gopher)
Cop - Ibaesha (Lacey Underall)
Doc - Glork
Masons - Coolbot/PJ (Maggie O'Hooligan/Danny Noonan)
??? - Raj/Beaker (One is probably a Townie or something)

Jelly
CoolBot wrote: I don't think Glork's the doc, but an info role of some sort. Or he's Porterhouse. Anyway, if the doc's doing his job, he's probably protected. Otherwise, I agree with you assessment of everyone.

Since we know that Ibaesha is Lacey and (probably) innocent, half the town is known by us. Depending on the night deaths, we might want to think about pushing for a mass claim.
PJ wrote: That sounds good, Coolbot (about the mass-claim), and yeah, I'm still wondering about Glork. I only put him as possible Doctor because I already had the other roles assigned.

I think I should also mention (when I first claim) that I am "wondering who vote blocked me". We both of course know it was a consequence of me happening to sleep with Lacey Underall N1, but the scum do not know that. They may attempt to use it as their fake claim, and say that after Fritzler asked the vote-blocker to not use their power again, that they agreed and stopped. We might be able to catch a scum this way, and it's really at no risk to either of us.

Jelly
And I had time for one PM night four (the night CoolBot died):
PJ wrote: Howdy, CoolBot!

Well, that was certainly a fast day. This game should be in the bag. Anyhow, list of players left:

PJ - Mason w/ CoolBot
CoolBot - Mason w/ PJ
Ibaesha - Lacey Underall, Cop
Beaker - Probably Townie (or Doctor)
Glork - Porterhouse (likely), perhaps Doctor (or Townie)
Pwnz - Probably GF

In short, nothing has really changed whatsoever between last night and tonight. Discussion is probably pretty irrelevant at this point, but if you think of anything we haven't gone over, feel free to PM me.

Jelly
So overall, Glork was pretty much under the radar whole time, so I thought he played excellently.
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Post Post #238 (ISO) » Sat Apr 08, 2006 4:49 pm

Post by Glork »

Funny thing is... I wasn't really Porterhouse either. It was a safeclaim given to us (along with Mrs. Smails).... but like I said, I thought Naz was basically done for. So I figured I'd use it as leverage to look even more pro-town.


Best game in quite a while. I had lots of fun playing this one. :D



*Shakes his head again, muttering "so close..." under his breath*
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Post Post #239 (ISO) » Sun Apr 09, 2006 10:16 am

Post by CoolBot »

Good game, if a bit quick. Day 4 and Night 5 passed before I knew Day 4 even started, and then I was dead. :cry:
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Post Post #240 (ISO) » Mon Apr 10, 2006 3:30 am

Post by elvis_knits »

OMG I'm so sorry about not getting this final lynch scene up. I'll do it later today.

Also, I just want to say thanks to you all for playing. I had a really good time modding and it was nice to see everyone on top of their game. Both town and scum were really good, but in the end it did come down to confirmable roles and the cop investigations.

I'd like to hear everyone's suggestions for my next mod. Was the town too powerful? I feel like the SK and mafia went after eachother too much and ended up destroying eachother (except for the one night that glork targetted raj who was nightkill immune and raj targetted glork who was protected by the doc...LOL).

Thanks again, guys, I had a great time.

(And I will post a night scene and list night actions too... which were amusing)
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Post Post #241 (ISO) » Mon Apr 10, 2006 3:43 am

Post by rajrhcpfreak »

i needed a safe claim.

and i should ahve killed fritz round one.

and i shouldnt have killed ibby, i really thought she was scum.
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Post Post #242 (ISO) » Tue Apr 11, 2006 3:04 am

Post by elvis_knits »

LATEST LYNCH SCENE EVER Vote Count
Glork (2) - Ibaesha, PJ


Even after sleeping with Ty Webb and finding no evidence that he was guilty, Lacy Underall still wanted to kill Ty dead. Danny Noonan was in love with Lacy, and he knew that killing Ty would mean he had the slut all to himself, so Danny was all about killing Ty too.

"A flute without holes, is not a flute. A donut without a hole, is a Danish," Ty cried, but his pleas were unheeded. Danny and Ibaesha string him up and dance around while Ty turns blue and dies.

Glork - Ty Webb (Awkward Playboy/ Mafia Godfather) - Lynched D5
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Post Post #243 (ISO) » Tue Apr 11, 2006 3:07 am

Post by elvis_knits »

These are the roles:
Roles wrote:Ty Webb – Awkward Playboy/Mafia Godfather
You think deep thoughts: “A flute without holes, is not a flute. A donut without a hole, is a Danish.” You get together with your friends Carl and Spaulding every night and smoke some of Carl’s special grass that you can play golf on in the afternoon and smoke at night. You don’t remember who’s idea it was to start killing country club members, but it made sense at the time. You have been elected godfather because you have the most brain cells left. You win when only mafia are alive.

You are immune from investigations.

Choices must be sent by the GF in the form of:
Mafia member kills: player name


Carl Spackler – Assistant Greenskeeper/Mafia Goon
You might be retarded. But, you met the Dalai Lama, so you’ve got that going for you. Plus you get together with your friends Ty and Spaulding every night and smoke some of your special grass that you can play golf on in the afternoon and smoke at night. You don’t remember who’s idea it was to start killing country club members, but it made sense at the time. You win when only mafia are alive.


Spalding Smails – Bastard Grandson/Mafia Goon
You like to eat fat off of other people’s plates and smoke weed that you “got off of a Negro.” You get together with you friends Ty and Carl every night and smoke some of Carl’s special grass that you can play golf on in the afternoon and smoke at night. You don’t remember who’s idea it was to start killing country club members, but it made sense at the time. You win when only mafia are alive.


The Gopher – Wicked Dancer/Serial Killer
You were content to ruin the golf course, but once people started trying to blow you up, you got really PO’ed and started biting their necks. You get to kill each night. You cannot be killed by mafia at night. You win when everyone else is dead.



Dr. Beeper – Golf Addict/Doctor
You’re a doctor, so your main occupation is golf. At night you can save people by writing them a prescription. You never actually see the patients in person. Pfft. That would be for pussies. You can self-medicate (protect yourself) once during the game. You win with the town.

Lacy Underall – Sneaky Slut/Cop
Your parents sent you away for banging on their bed. You’ve turned into an even bigger slut lately, choosing one person to sleep with each night. This is a good thing though because after you’re done banging you gather clues and figure out if they are guilty or innocent. You win with the town.

Judge Smails – Funsucker/Roleblocker
You are lame and get hit in the nuts a lot. You don’t like to see other people having fun, so you pick one person every night to roleblock. You win with the town.

Danny Noonan – Horny Caddy/Mason
You love your girlfriend Maggie O’Hooligan. You love to have sex with her. Now all you have to do is find her. You can submit one choice per night to me to try to find her. You have as many chances as it takes, but be careful! If you choose Lacy Underall, Maggie will fucking kill you (you will lose voting rights for the day). In fact, you might want to just lay there (keep it in your pants) and let her come find you. After you find each other, you can talk at night. You win with the town.

Maggie O’Hooligan – Maybe Knocked Up/Mason
You love your boyfriend Danny Noonan. You love to have sex with him. Now all you have to do is find him. You can submit one choice per night to me to try to find him. You have as many chances as it takes. After you find him, you can talk at night. You win with the town.

If you guess right on your first try you will be rewarded with choice of one investigation or one protection.

The Bishop – Future Mental Patient/1-shot Vigilante
After you cursed God (by yelling “Ratfart!”) and got struck by lightening, you went a little crazy. You no longer believe in God and now have taken justice into your own hands. You can kill once at night by feeding someone rat poison. You win with the town.


Tony D’Annunzio – Sexy Caddy/Townie
You like to smoke cigarettes and wear tight pants to show off your package. Too bad you have no special abilities. You win with the town.

Al Czervik – Millionaire Social Director/Townie
Did somebody step on a duck? You are flatulent and fabulous! Too bad you have no special abilities. You win with the town.
Last edited by elvis_knits on Tue Apr 11, 2006 6:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #244 (ISO) » Tue Apr 11, 2006 3:15 am

Post by elvis_knits »

Choices:

N1
Nazgul kills LML
Raj kills passdog
Ibaesha investigates LML
Fritzler roleblocks Beaker
pwnz protects raj
PJ checks Ibaesha for mason (loses vote following day)
Coolbot checks Fritzler

N2
Nazgul kills fritzler
Raj kills Fritzler
Fritzler blocks Nazgul
pwnz protects Nazgul
Ibaesha investigates PJ
PJ checks raj
Coolbot finds PJ

N3
Glork kills raj
Raj kills Glork
pwnz protects Glork
Ibaesha investigates raj

N4
Glork kills Coolbot
pwnz protects self
Ibaesha investigates pwnz

N5
Glork kills pwnz
Ibaesha investigates Glork
pwnz (didn't wait for choice because he couldn't self protect again)
Talk nerdy to me.

"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." -Joseph Campbell
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MeMe
MeMe
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MeMe
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Post Post #245 (ISO) » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:15 am

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