I'm biased. I have a tendency to townread him in all of my games.
Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:39 pm
by the worst
they're like, mafia soulmates. it's pretty cool.
Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 3:11 am
by MURDERCAT
Caught up over the night, but didn't write a post because it's annoying to do that at night, plus we got hit with difficult travel stuff due to weather so I was low energy. Wedding was fun though, thanks Gork.
I'm gunna do some iso reading into who pushed the worst, plus I want to reread the dwlee + LLD interaction.
In post 661, the worst wrote:i think the tells of lack of interest in finding groupscum are like, starting to show. i'm also not married to this really.
I think I might have to drop my post restriction because it's taking up a bit too much time to compose posts in that format. I enjoy it but I don't have the rl time lately. I can't take twice as long engineering what I want to say.
This has more to do with me getting ten pages behind in a game than my alignment or the pressure. I planned to out day1 but keep the post restriction.
Any way this post is like. Epic smelly. Because there is a shitton of anachronistic logic in it. Positive interest in SK identity just doesn't countermand interest in groupscum identity. I think finding Kazyan scummy in general is way defensible and like house's reaction but this post is really disingenuous "willitstick" and the backpedaling makes it worse.
Or maybe just equally bad idk ambivalence is huge in duck town meta
Nothing super interesting but I value the reads more after isis claim. Gork was already pretty towny so that's not doing anything. All this really changes for me is I think it bumps House up somewhat in my reads.
I looked at vote stuff too, but this is mostly just for me to figure out what is worth rereading
This is going to be an important VC to look at as we get more info I think. My guess is that scum will be spread out across both top wagons, looking to jump to whichever one looks close to popping. Mental note to go back and look for that.
LLD wagon starts to rise, more confirmation the worst is town because there is no reason to jump to a small wagon like that when you are under pressure.
In post 1978, the worst wrote:she doesn't engage w anything that's happening because if she's going down there's no point in putting out more associatives. putting me to e-1 as a TPR claim without evaluating anything else (incl. lack of meaningful counterwagon) isn't a townie.
I
think
this is the first place the worst hard claimed, but I could be wrong I just did CTRL-F for a few things. What's interesting to me here is that the pressure doesn't turn towards LLD who is the next biggest wagon and instead ends up on Navi. Why does Dwlee move to Navi for example? Mental note to reread this and see if LLD is scum with friends or if Navi was just a much easier target (and whether that implicates dwlee).
The screen goes black as the sun continues to set behind the buildings. The sun is maybe the only thing here that is normal. 13 strangers look at each other, not really sure what to do. An agreement had been reached but no one was really sure what was going to happen next.
The screen flickers back to life, showing the following
THERE HAS BEEN AN ELIMINATION
Navi, vanilla townie has been eliminated.
Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:24 am
by Kazyan
I had a long think. LLD, honestly, you're right about me being a jerk and you saw the worst side of me in that post. Your composure is admirable. I can't promise that I'll be a good person or a good player, I can only promise to try.
I don't know how to evaluate the way that you play, or the way that anyone plays. Your push on Dwlee on Day 1 was to generate content on an ambiguous slot, right? But I only know that because you spelled it out for the thread. Is it a 'shake the town into shape so that they're better at catching the bad guys' strategy?
UNVOTE:
Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:47 am
by Lady Lambdadelta
In post 2304, Kazyan wrote:I had a long think. LLD, honestly, you're right about me being a jerk and you saw the worst side of me in that post. Your composure is admirable. I can't promise that I'll be a good person or a good player, I can only promise to try.
I don't know how to evaluate the way that you play, or the way that anyone plays. Your push on Dwlee on Day 1 was to generate content on an ambiguous slot, right? But I only know that because you spelled it out for the thread. Is it a 'shake the town into shape so that they're better at catching the bad guys' strategy?
UNVOTE:
So I'll be honest that if I had any one stated goal for that action, I'd probably be lying to you? The concept of pressuring Dwlee there was to generate content on a level that the town could interact with both me and dwlee, and force the game from an apathetic state into one where people would take harder stances and that those stances would be useful for purposes of evaluating alignment later.
It also lets me get immediate reaction takes on people, which is another alignment check thing that helps.
So it's at least partially for me, but it's also for the sake of the whole town, because content creation is useful to a point where it is helpful for reads (too much will generate more apathy. See: "It's been 2 days and there's 20 pages?")
So yeah "shake things lose and provide the town more avenues for discussion and finding scum" is approximately covering most of the goals.
Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:13 am
by Dannflor
Gamma, why has Meg felt shady to you
Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:16 am
by unwnd
I've developed a secret read but don't have the means to pursue it
Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:21 am
by Kazyan
Townread
:
Gork (PROTAGONIST OF THE GAME)
Dwlee99 (10-degree tilt for a minute there, literally no agenda, didn't do the scum tell)
Dann (I get good vibes from every post Dann makes; he seems like he's trying to bring order to a chaotic town. I know he's been burned by unwnd's scumgame in a chaotic normal before.)
The Worst (extremely town discussion with unwnd)
Townlean
:
unwnd (extremely town discussion with TW, but I'm generally spooked about the strength of unwnd's scumgame.)
Null
:
LLD (I'm, uh, done having opinions on this slot for a while)
Confu
sed
About
:
Pooky (Obviously not an SK anymore, and has completely dropped the indecision about who to kill. I have a hard time believing that his drunkposting spree could have been done with scum intent, but I need to ask whether this is typical of town!Pooky or not. I haven't seen him like this in his towngame yet, but I've seen him death-tunnel a claimed PR in Dogs Vs. Cats, in which he was mafia.)
House (I can't put my finger on what it is. I feel the towniness, but House has also just sorta been skirting every single discussion since the first few 24-hour days of the game, which I feel like is a good place for scum to hang out in. I also can't help but look at how he was on the only one on a non-viable wagon yesterday and think 'what's up with that'?)
Scumlean
:
MurderCat (This is where my heart wants to vote. I get what he's saying about Meg. I'm also kinda tinfoiling that the no-kill was specifically to kneecap MCat's ability to VCA if that's what he does every game, but I don't know. MCat, do you do VCA in most games?)
Gamma (PoE tbh)
Delet this
:
Meg (Meg has been diffident, wagon-hopping in a way that looks manufactured, and only broke out the actual convincing statements when directly pressured, i.e. saving themselves. The more I think about that "pick scum among these five at random" post, the more I think of it as throwing miselim options at the wall and seeing what sticks.)
-----
The trees I want to shake are the "Confused About" ones.
Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:23 am
by Dannflor
In post 2307, unwnd wrote:I've developed a secret read but don't have the means to pursue it
the means are always in your posession
Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:24 am
by unwnd
I don't think it is
I think that read dies with me or someone picks it up later
Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:24 am
by Dannflor
Gamma, my concern with you at the moment is that most of your takes (especially recently) look like regurgitations of whatever the thread is saying at the time
i seem to remember you also had some reads that went against consensus like me!scum but you're not really putting up a fight there at all?
The way she's sorting slots seems to be indicative of low-level scum (which while it's harsh to say, that is how I rate her rn)
why does she feel like the best target to you atm
Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:25 am
by Gamma Emerald
In post 2311, Dannflor wrote:Gamma, my concern with you at the moment is that most of your takes (especially recently) look like regurgitations of whatever the thread is saying at the time
i seem to remember you also had some reads that went against consensus like me!scum but you're not really putting up a fight there at all?
I think I have been feeling slightly better about you from posting toDay actually
Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:26 am
by Dannflor
what exactly did I post today that changed or started changing your mind?
The way she's sorting slots seems to be indicative of low-level scum (which while it's harsh to say, that is how I rate her rn)
why does she feel like the best target to you atm
because she's a consensus SR and I don't feel like trying to push for someone else?
Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:29 am
by Gamma Emerald
On ISO read I don't think it's that I feel better about you but that I feel less uneasy
In post 2198, Dannflor wrote:I kinda think gorkington not dying here further implicates Kazyan town
However I'm very much intrigued at this, I'd asked earlier about if people still felt strongly that Kaz is town and no one responded then
Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:34 am
by Dannflor
probably the loudest and clearest thing that I remember happening D1 was gorkington pushing Kazyan
I think gorkington's pushes are always going to be given some credence because of the universality of the town reads on him. usually, that means high night kill bait. now he could just be so obvious that scum don't want to risk getting their kill blocked or what have you, but the other explanation is that they are mostly *fine* not killing gorkington because he's wrong on one or more major things. I think the most prolific take he had D1 was kazyan!scum and I think Kazyan is a slot that even if a lot of people town read them right *now*, could come back into question later.
Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:36 am
by unwnd
In post 2313, Dannflor wrote:I think I disagree with the way you play mafia unwnd
To each their own. I'm assuming you look at me and go 'why say it' and it's because I want to talk about it but I am fine with the current gamestate. I think I wanna flip Gamma and then I'll lead into my other thought. Maybe you dislike me prioritizing reads in that way.
Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:38 am
by Dannflor
I just usually tend towards transparency as town and I find few situations where hiding information actually helps
it's also a little ? that in a situation where you've been targeted for a NK once already presumably that you are willing to risk taking a read you presumably feel good about and that is important enough to talk about to the grave with you
Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:43 am
by PookyTheMagicalBear
i will suspend my disbelief about unwnd for today and allow him to lead me to the promised land
Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:47 am
by unwnd
In post 2321, Dannflor wrote:I just usually tend towards transparency as town and I find few situations where hiding information actually helps
it's also a little ? that in a situation where you've been targeted for a NK once already presumably that you are willing to risk taking a read you presumably feel good about and that is important enough to talk about to the grave with you
One of them is already being voted. I don't exhale my own fumes and get high off my presence. I'm not really big on herosolves and any time I've made them it's in jest. I also
do
believe in hiding information because I think keeping scum out of the know and being slightly ambiguous in your thoughts makes it so they don't have a directive to latch onto. This is all MD talk though and Cabd has mortally wounded me by calling me a navel gazer before so I won't go further.
Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:48 am
by Kazyan
Does MurderCat/Gamma/Meg make sense as a solve? I'm trying to figure out if a Pooky or House swap-in makes more sense than a team that's constantly bussing each other apparently