421 Smalltown 2: Scrubs Mafia! Game Over!
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- DragonsofSummer
- DragonsofSummer
-
DragonsofSummer
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1640
- Joined: January 22, 2007
- Location: In the Shadows...
Well I guess I've really said all I can say in my defense. Yes I basically did not play this game at all until a day or two ago (real days), and I can understand that it looks suspicious that I laid a case out against PBuG today, but I would like to point out that I suspected him yesterday as well. Glork you can believe me or not about the whole deal with the protection (which you obviously don't believe me, and I understand that too, all it would have taken for me to clear it up before it started was to think a little longer about my post). So good luck guys. I hope the town wins.
"I want you to hit me as hard as you can."
-Tyler Durden
-Tyler Durden
- Mr Stoofer
- Mr Stoofer
-
Mr Stoofer
- Less than scum
- Less than scum
- Posts: 3827
- Joined: February 25, 2005
- Location: London Alignment: Lawful Evil
- Zindaras
- Zindaras
-
Zindaras
- Mr(s) Popularity
- Mr(s) Popularity
- Posts: 4343
- Joined: April 13, 2006
- Location: The Netherlands
- Contact:
I'll go along with your little plan, Glork. (though I don't think that having my target public really helps anyone)
Show
Finished: 159 (120 Town, 33 Mafia, 5 Other, 1 Cult, 4 Cultivated)
68 Wins, 71 Losses
Town: 52 Wins, 54 Losses (2 Wins as Cult)
Mafia: 13 Wins, 15 Losses (1 Win as Cult)
Other: 3 Wins, 1 Loss (1 Win as Cult)
Cult: 0 Wins, 1 Loss
Cultivated: 4 Wins, 0 Losses
59 Survived, 31 Lynched, 60 Killed
68 Wins, 71 Losses
Town: 52 Wins, 54 Losses (2 Wins as Cult)
Mafia: 13 Wins, 15 Losses (1 Win as Cult)
Other: 3 Wins, 1 Loss (1 Win as Cult)
Cult: 0 Wins, 1 Loss
Cultivated: 4 Wins, 0 Losses
59 Survived, 31 Lynched, 60 Killed
- Glork
- Glork
-
Glork
- Burdened by Proficiency
- Burdened by Proficiency
- Posts: 14106
- Joined: July 13, 2005
- Location: Dance into the fire
Waiting for PBuG to confirm, somebody to vote, and then I'll hammer... though since I've already explained my plan for tonight, I don't think I have much else to say right now.
- Zindaras
- Zindaras
-
Zindaras
- Mr(s) Popularity
- Mr(s) Popularity
- Posts: 4343
- Joined: April 13, 2006
- Location: The Netherlands
- Contact:
Then it is decided.
Vote: DoS
.Show
Finished: 159 (120 Town, 33 Mafia, 5 Other, 1 Cult, 4 Cultivated)
68 Wins, 71 Losses
Town: 52 Wins, 54 Losses (2 Wins as Cult)
Mafia: 13 Wins, 15 Losses (1 Win as Cult)
Other: 3 Wins, 1 Loss (1 Win as Cult)
Cult: 0 Wins, 1 Loss
Cultivated: 4 Wins, 0 Losses
59 Survived, 31 Lynched, 60 Killed
68 Wins, 71 Losses
Town: 52 Wins, 54 Losses (2 Wins as Cult)
Mafia: 13 Wins, 15 Losses (1 Win as Cult)
Other: 3 Wins, 1 Loss (1 Win as Cult)
Cult: 0 Wins, 1 Loss
Cultivated: 4 Wins, 0 Losses
59 Survived, 31 Lynched, 60 Killed
- Glork
- Glork
-
Glork
- Burdened by Proficiency
- Burdened by Proficiency
- Posts: 14106
- Joined: July 13, 2005
- Location: Dance into the fire
Well then. I'm still going through with my random-but-weighted plan; I truly think that it's the best way to progress, since the scums can't know how likely it is that Zindie's and Stoof's actions will remain the same. I have, however, adjusted my weights -- I guessed at what each scumbag's optimal plays would be with the information given, and I realized that if Zindaras or PBuG were scum, the best play would be to kill me and claim that b/c my action was unknown, Stoof's result would be unreliable. So targeting Glork is somewhat more likely to result in Glork not dying... a word of WIFOMy caution to any scumbag who still lives.
...of course, hopefully all of that will be moot and DoS will just be lynched as scum today anyway.
...of course, hopefully all of that will be moot and DoS will just be lynched as scum today anyway.
Vote: DoS
- Zindaras
- Zindaras
-
Zindaras
- Mr(s) Popularity
- Mr(s) Popularity
- Posts: 4343
- Joined: April 13, 2006
- Location: The Netherlands
- Contact:
What is it with me today that I seem to be completely missing the point of everyone?
Show
Finished: 159 (120 Town, 33 Mafia, 5 Other, 1 Cult, 4 Cultivated)
68 Wins, 71 Losses
Town: 52 Wins, 54 Losses (2 Wins as Cult)
Mafia: 13 Wins, 15 Losses (1 Win as Cult)
Other: 3 Wins, 1 Loss (1 Win as Cult)
Cult: 0 Wins, 1 Loss
Cultivated: 4 Wins, 0 Losses
59 Survived, 31 Lynched, 60 Killed
68 Wins, 71 Losses
Town: 52 Wins, 54 Losses (2 Wins as Cult)
Mafia: 13 Wins, 15 Losses (1 Win as Cult)
Other: 3 Wins, 1 Loss (1 Win as Cult)
Cult: 0 Wins, 1 Loss
Cultivated: 4 Wins, 0 Losses
59 Survived, 31 Lynched, 60 Killed
- Mr Stoofer
- Mr Stoofer
-
Mr Stoofer
- Less than scum
- Less than scum
- Posts: 3827
- Joined: February 25, 2005
- Location: London Alignment: Lawful Evil
- Zindaras
- Zindaras
-
Zindaras
- Mr(s) Popularity
- Mr(s) Popularity
- Posts: 4343
- Joined: April 13, 2006
- Location: The Netherlands
- Contact:
No. If PBuG is scum, then PBuG can use his Vig instead of the Mafia kill to get past my protection. Also, if Glork switches the kill to him, my protection will be useless.
Show
Finished: 159 (120 Town, 33 Mafia, 5 Other, 1 Cult, 4 Cultivated)
68 Wins, 71 Losses
Town: 52 Wins, 54 Losses (2 Wins as Cult)
Mafia: 13 Wins, 15 Losses (1 Win as Cult)
Other: 3 Wins, 1 Loss (1 Win as Cult)
Cult: 0 Wins, 1 Loss
Cultivated: 4 Wins, 0 Losses
59 Survived, 31 Lynched, 60 Killed
68 Wins, 71 Losses
Town: 52 Wins, 54 Losses (2 Wins as Cult)
Mafia: 13 Wins, 15 Losses (1 Win as Cult)
Other: 3 Wins, 1 Loss (1 Win as Cult)
Cult: 0 Wins, 1 Loss
Cultivated: 4 Wins, 0 Losses
59 Survived, 31 Lynched, 60 Killed
- Zindaras
- Zindaras
-
Zindaras
- Mr(s) Popularity
- Mr(s) Popularity
- Posts: 4343
- Joined: April 13, 2006
- Location: The Netherlands
- Contact:
Blech. The Bus Driver role makes my head hurt. So many possibilities...
Or maybe it's the heat.
Or maybe it's the heat.
Show
Finished: 159 (120 Town, 33 Mafia, 5 Other, 1 Cult, 4 Cultivated)
68 Wins, 71 Losses
Town: 52 Wins, 54 Losses (2 Wins as Cult)
Mafia: 13 Wins, 15 Losses (1 Win as Cult)
Other: 3 Wins, 1 Loss (1 Win as Cult)
Cult: 0 Wins, 1 Loss
Cultivated: 4 Wins, 0 Losses
59 Survived, 31 Lynched, 60 Killed
68 Wins, 71 Losses
Town: 52 Wins, 54 Losses (2 Wins as Cult)
Mafia: 13 Wins, 15 Losses (1 Win as Cult)
Other: 3 Wins, 1 Loss (1 Win as Cult)
Cult: 0 Wins, 1 Loss
Cultivated: 4 Wins, 0 Losses
59 Survived, 31 Lynched, 60 Killed
- Mr Stoofer
- Mr Stoofer
-
Mr Stoofer
- Less than scum
- Less than scum
- Posts: 3827
- Joined: February 25, 2005
- Location: London Alignment: Lawful Evil
- Glork
- Glork
-
Glork
- Burdened by Proficiency
- Burdened by Proficiency
- Posts: 14106
- Joined: July 13, 2005
- Location: Dance into the fire
Eh, just remember the following things:
If I die, it is very likely that Stoof did not kill me, since he would have to gamble on the rather low probability that I would not only switch protection away from myself, but that I would switch myself
If anybody dies and Stoof gets "No result" or "nowhere" or whatever, then PBuG is cleared -- Stoof getting redirected anywhere else would still lead him to get a result of *some kind*, because Zindie/Stoof/Glork would all have taken actions.
Keep these in mind, and I think we should be okay.
If I die, it is very likely that Stoof did not kill me, since he would have to gamble on the rather low probability that I would not only switch protection away from myself, but that I would switch myself
with his target
.If anybody dies and Stoof gets "No result" or "nowhere" or whatever, then PBuG is cleared -- Stoof getting redirected anywhere else would still lead him to get a result of *some kind*, because Zindie/Stoof/Glork would all have taken actions.
Keep these in mind, and I think we should be okay.
- Mr Stoofer
- Mr Stoofer
-
Mr Stoofer
- Less than scum
- Less than scum
- Posts: 3827
- Joined: February 25, 2005
- Location: London Alignment: Lawful Evil
- Glork
- Glork
-
Glork
- Burdened by Proficiency
- Burdened by Proficiency
- Posts: 14106
- Joined: July 13, 2005
- Location: Dance into the fire
Which is why I've weighted things so that I'm less likely to die.
Basically, ZindieScum has very, very, *VERY* little incentive to just flat-out kill me. Unless I happen to swtich PBuG with somebody, you'll get "No result" and he will be screwed. So unless he's going to kill me and try to pull massive WIFOM (with Glork switching things and Stoof lying about his result), he's in trouble. And even if he tries that, he's in, at best, a 50-50 situation with PBuG deciding who to lynch.
StoofScum could only "kill" me by getting switched to me. Like I said, *HIGHLY* unlikey to happen.
PBuG has by far the most incentive to kill me through a vig. But he's under heavy enough suspicion as is and probably wouldn't want to make the "obvious play." Granted, it leaves nobody absolutely "confirmed," but it's not as though the town would play randomly -- I'm pretty sure he'd still find himself dead to rights.
So by saying this, I'm hoping that I've deterred any of you from possibly trying to set up my deaths. If you all just think things through to their natural conclusions and avoid WIFOM logic, killing me is just a bad play all around.
Basically, ZindieScum has very, very, *VERY* little incentive to just flat-out kill me. Unless I happen to swtich PBuG with somebody, you'll get "No result" and he will be screwed. So unless he's going to kill me and try to pull massive WIFOM (with Glork switching things and Stoof lying about his result), he's in trouble. And even if he tries that, he's in, at best, a 50-50 situation with PBuG deciding who to lynch.
StoofScum could only "kill" me by getting switched to me. Like I said, *HIGHLY* unlikey to happen.
PBuG has by far the most incentive to kill me through a vig. But he's under heavy enough suspicion as is and probably wouldn't want to make the "obvious play." Granted, it leaves nobody absolutely "confirmed," but it's not as though the town would play randomly -- I'm pretty sure he'd still find himself dead to rights.
So by saying this, I'm hoping that I've deterred any of you from possibly trying to set up my deaths. If you all just think things through to their natural conclusions and avoid WIFOM logic, killing me is just a bad play all around.
- Seol
- Seol
-
Seol
- Logical Rampage
- Logical Rampage
- Posts: 1563
- Joined: November 26, 2004
- Location: In the wrong
ok, i'm opening this up nice and early as whilst i haven't had all nightchoices, the remainder can't alter the outcome now.
Mr Stoofer (nurse laverne, tracker) looks around nervously and mutters to herself "it's not the only way, but it's the best way", holds her gun to her head, crosses her fingers, and pulls the trigger. Cue slow-motion bullet-time as we watch the hammer fall on the chamber...
"Yeah, that's a classy move" quips Glork (the Janitor) as he shuttles Pbug (Doug) and Zindaras (Turk) back and forth in a flurry of sped-up footage with silent-movie music in the background.
..."Oh crap" mutters Laverne as the bullet starts to penetrate her skull. "I was relying on you switching me with someone. Now I feel really stupid". Then she stops talking as the bullet hits her brain, rips it to shreds, and flies out along with half her brain splattering the opposite wall.
"Well, damn you," says the Janitor, "did you
GAME OVER - TOWN WINS!
Mr Stoofer (nurse laverne, tracker) looks around nervously and mutters to herself "it's not the only way, but it's the best way", holds her gun to her head, crosses her fingers, and pulls the trigger. Cue slow-motion bullet-time as we watch the hammer fall on the chamber...
"Yeah, that's a classy move" quips Glork (the Janitor) as he shuttles Pbug (Doug) and Zindaras (Turk) back and forth in a flurry of sped-up footage with silent-movie music in the background.
..."Oh crap" mutters Laverne as the bullet starts to penetrate her skull. "I was relying on you switching me with someone. Now I feel really stupid". Then she stops talking as the bullet hits her brain, rips it to shreds, and flies out along with half her brain splattering the opposite wall.
"Well, damn you," says the Janitor, "did you
have
to make such a mess as you died?"GAME OVER - TOWN WINS!
[i]The hungry maw of Twilight snaps, but shall not have its fill,
Until one man hangs by his neck, by half this curs'd town's will[/i]
Until one man hangs by his neck, by half this curs'd town's will[/i]
Yay! I didn't do much but a win is a win! Nice trickery with your role Glork.
For those wondering, I protected, and presumably saved Zindaras on the second night. I forgot to leave any kind of breadcrumb about who I'd protect though.
For those wondering, I protected, and presumably saved Zindaras on the second night. I forgot to leave any kind of breadcrumb about who I'd protect though.
Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face
- Glork
- Glork
-
Glork
- Burdened by Proficiency
- Burdened by Proficiency
- Posts: 14106
- Joined: July 13, 2005
- Location: Dance into the fire
Heh.
Stoof didn't have a prayer, and I was leaning towards thinking it was him anyway. Let's see if I could re-create my thought process last night.
As I'm sure you all guessed, I had no intention of choosing randomly. I said that to see if I could force the scum to see if the scums would make an unorthodox play. I don't know if that's the reason Stoof targeted himself, or if he thought I was simply going to switch him with somebody else... but I certainly wasn't expecting the game to end
My initial thought was "switching Stoof and Zindaras would keep Stoof's result intact, would keep me protected, and has a chance to A) kill the scum overnight; and B) Zindie killing me would screw himself over if Stoof got "no result" on PBuG. I even sent this in as my choice, but I sent Seol a PM about three minutes later saying I changed my mind and wanted to think things over.
The biggest problem I had with switching Stoof/Zindie is that that action is weakest if Stoof is scum. And I suspected Stoof the most (I'd say about 50% Stoof, 32.5% PBuG, 17.5% Zindie). So I was very uncomfortable with that plan.
I made a chart of each possible set of possible choice sets and outcomes for each possible scumbag. After looking at them, I looked at the possible optimal plays. Stoof would kill Zindnie or PBuG -- slightly more likely PBuG, though he could kill Zindie and blame it on PBuG through his result. Zindie would probably kill PBuG. The possibility of PBuG surviving tonight and not getting lynched tomorrow and vigging Zindie tomorrow night made him more likely to die, in my mind. I felt that I had given enough disincentive for PBuG to kill me that he would likely kill Zindie or Stoof. And if PBuG *DID* target me as scum, then switching Zindie/PBuG would yield "Glork" as Stoof's result anyway. So the worst-case scenario would be Stoof picking among PBuG/Zindie (if Glork dies) or Glork picking among PBuG/Zindie (if Stoof dies). Furthermore, if Stoof was scum (most likely in my mind), then he was screwed if he targeted anybody else. The kill would get swtiched, so if Zindie turned up dead, I would know that Stoof tried to kill PBuG -- and so PBuG would be innocent, barring a self-kill (which I honestly thought was out-of-the-question).
I figured StoofScum would be forced to
Stoof didn't have a prayer, and I was leaning towards thinking it was him anyway. Let's see if I could re-create my thought process last night.
As I'm sure you all guessed, I had no intention of choosing randomly. I said that to see if I could force the scum to see if the scums would make an unorthodox play. I don't know if that's the reason Stoof targeted himself, or if he thought I was simply going to switch him with somebody else... but I certainly wasn't expecting the game to end
this
way.My initial thought was "switching Stoof and Zindaras would keep Stoof's result intact, would keep me protected, and has a chance to A) kill the scum overnight; and B) Zindie killing me would screw himself over if Stoof got "no result" on PBuG. I even sent this in as my choice, but I sent Seol a PM about three minutes later saying I changed my mind and wanted to think things over.
The biggest problem I had with switching Stoof/Zindie is that that action is weakest if Stoof is scum. And I suspected Stoof the most (I'd say about 50% Stoof, 32.5% PBuG, 17.5% Zindie). So I was very uncomfortable with that plan.
I made a chart of each possible set of possible choice sets and outcomes for each possible scumbag. After looking at them, I looked at the possible optimal plays. Stoof would kill Zindnie or PBuG -- slightly more likely PBuG, though he could kill Zindie and blame it on PBuG through his result. Zindie would probably kill PBuG. The possibility of PBuG surviving tonight and not getting lynched tomorrow and vigging Zindie tomorrow night made him more likely to die, in my mind. I felt that I had given enough disincentive for PBuG to kill me that he would likely kill Zindie or Stoof. And if PBuG *DID* target me as scum, then switching Zindie/PBuG would yield "Glork" as Stoof's result anyway. So the worst-case scenario would be Stoof picking among PBuG/Zindie (if Glork dies) or Glork picking among PBuG/Zindie (if Stoof dies). Furthermore, if Stoof was scum (most likely in my mind), then he was screwed if he targeted anybody else. The kill would get swtiched, so if Zindie turned up dead, I would know that Stoof tried to kill PBuG -- and so PBuG would be innocent, barring a self-kill (which I honestly thought was out-of-the-question).
I figured StoofScum would be forced to
track PBuG and make no kill tonight
. He would get "Glork" as a result after being switched to Zindaras. At that point, I would allow everyone to debate a bit, but I would eventually decide to have us No-Lynch, and I would tell PBuG to shoot at me with his vig-kill.
I would switch myself and whomever I thought was scum at that point. This plan had the extra caveat of leading to one Glork-controlled death if either PBuG was the scum or if Zindaras somehow succeeded in protecting against Stoof's kill (unlikely at best, but not impossible, if Stoof oddly decided to shoot PBuG instead). Still, I think that no-kill was probably Stoof's best play. He'd either force Happily Ever After, or he'd eventually get us to mislynch/misvig, or get himself lynched/vigged. But it seemed better than the alternative, which relied on my allegedly-random night action not screwing him over.- Kelly Chen
- Kelly Chen
-
Kelly Chen
- Open-Minded
- Open-Minded
- Posts: 2150
- Joined: November 25, 2005
- Location: in the party
I protected Thesp N0. I believed the town wouldn't accept me not protecting anyone, and lying about protecting someone would've been risky. So I wanted to save a role that makes things difficult for the mafia but not me. (And I killed MeMe partly because a roleblocker could shut me down and figure me out at the same time.)
Sorry about that, VitaminR.
Sorry about that, VitaminR.
Yes, Stoof actually told me about that unfortunate occurence for VitaminR there. I personally don't think I'd have pushed for your lynch if you'd not protected anybody. I think taking a 3/11 chance of losing immediately was too risky.
Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face
- Seol
- Seol
-
Seol
- Logical Rampage
- Logical Rampage
- Posts: 1563
- Joined: November 26, 2004
- Location: In the wrong
what are people's thoughts on the setup? both iro smalltown and this particular distribution of roles? is it a durable format? cos adele and i had some fun brainstorming it, and it occurs to me that there is plenty of potential for it. eg, heroes mafia is ideally suited to a smalltown setup...
[i]The hungry maw of Twilight snaps, but shall not have its fill,
Until one man hangs by his neck, by half this curs'd town's will[/i]
Until one man hangs by his neck, by half this curs'd town's will[/i]
- Mr Stoofer
- Mr Stoofer
-
Mr Stoofer
- Less than scum
- Less than scum
- Posts: 3827
- Joined: February 25, 2005
- Location: London Alignment: Lawful Evil