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Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:52 am
by VP Baltar
Datisi, can you explain the Andres case to me in a bullet point or two?

Thoughts on Billy?

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:52 am
by Andresvmb
In post 272, Datisi wrote:
In post 268, Andresvmb wrote:Please point out to me how I’m playing like I’m sitting on the sidelines waiting for people to chew each other out.
also i never said that, so please don't put words in my mouth
That is quite clearly not what I was doing (putting words in your mouth). I’m being dismissive of the argument that I have been fencesitting or sitting on the sidelines (made by Iconeum) because it’s a bad one. And since you seem to be siding there, I was asking you to point out how my play can be interpreted this way.

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:56 am
by Iconeum
In post 256, Andresvmb wrote:Notice that they only attacked me as
definite Scum
after I voted them,

you quote me right now where i'm calling you definite scum or i'm tunneling you for the rest of this game

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:57 am
by Iconeum
In post 268, Andresvmb wrote:
In post 265, Datisi wrote:
In post 258, Andresvmb wrote:Also, your skepticism about me being non-committal is fair.

[snip]

If I was saying that VPB was definitive Town or Scum, then you should be more worried about my alignment.
if skepticism about you being non-committal is fair, is skepticism about you being fence-sitty also fair?

also very disagree with the second point, but dunno how AI that is
I have not been fencesitting. Please point out to me how I’m playing like I’m sitting on the sidelines waiting for people to chew each other out.
i literally quoted where you did that. it's the post you are completely missrepping me about

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:00 am
by Iconeum
In post 274, VP Baltar wrote:I did not admit to anything regarding Icon's "bad logic" argument because it is flat wrong. Icon failed to read properly and the OMGUSed me is what took place.
i'm not omgusing you at all

you are using faulty logic to explain a scumread on me and people are wagoning you on faulty logic and when i explain why it's absolute horseshit of reasoning it's dismissed

yeah i'm reacting to that

yeah i'm annoyed

but if you think this is scum!ico because i'm emotional about things you've... got to learn a thing or two about me

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:01 am
by Iconeum
this will be all

i've had about 2,5 gin tonicss and i'm about to start the La Chouffe bottles so

see you all tomorrow and Ico out/

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:01 am
by Andresvmb
In post 277, Iconeum wrote:
In post 256, Andresvmb wrote:Notice that they only attacked me as
definite Scum
after I voted them,

you quote me right now where i'm calling you definite scum or i'm tunneling you for the rest of this game
Assume for a moment that I have you wrong (I don’t think so, but bear with me). And that you are not convinced I’m Scum. How is this supposed to be helpful again? You are free to tunnel me all you want. I’m interpreting your reaction and arguments as mostly coming from a Scum mindset. But maybe it’s just how you communicate.

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:01 am
by Datisi
In post 275, VP Baltar wrote:Datisi, can you explain the Andres case to me in a bullet point or two?

Thoughts on Billy?
- found his opening weirdly non-committal / busywork-y
- his read on me makes me lowkey uneasy since i feel like my thoughs are somewhat similar to ico's so far
- attributing ico's personality to alignment

i was planning on rereading his iso soon as a refresher though, since after the recent conversation i'm not sure if/how much i'm confbiasing on the non-committal/fencesit point

billy is like vaguely +town because i feel like we're mindmelding on the thoughts on ico and the snowblaze's post

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:03 am
by Andresvmb
Also, can somebody other than Iconeum come up with a definition of OMGUS’ing that most of us can agree on?

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:04 am
by Datisi
In post 276, Andresvmb wrote:
In post 272, Datisi wrote:
In post 268, Andresvmb wrote:Please point out to me how I’m playing like I’m sitting on the sidelines waiting for people to chew each other out.
also i never said that, so please don't put words in my mouth
That is quite clearly not what I was doing (putting words in your mouth). I’m being dismissive of the argument that I have been fencesitting or sitting on the sidelines (made by Iconeum) because it’s a bad one. And since you seem to be siding there, I was asking you to point out how my play can be interpreted this way.
i don't think anyone said "sitting on sidelines waiting for people to chew each other out", which felt like you were trying to exaggerate the actual accusations

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:05 am
by Datisi
In post 283, Andresvmb wrote:Also, can somebody other than Iconeum come up with a definition of OMGUS’ing that most of us can agree on?
voting someone purely because they voted you?

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:08 am
by Iconeum
ok i'll bite

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:09 am
by Iconeum
In post 285, Datisi wrote:
In post 283, Andresvmb wrote:Also, can somebody other than Iconeum come up with a definition of OMGUS’ing that most of us can agree on?
voting someone purely because they voted you?
this is the definition of omgus

it's clearly not what i'm doing

and i'm extremely sick and tired of these misreps

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:10 am
by Iconeum
In post 283, Andresvmb wrote:Also, can somebody other than Iconeum come up with a definition of OMGUS’ing that most of us can agree on?
i am pushing that VP dude because of the unholy conclusion it made that i am scum based on faulty logic that itself brought forward, i pointed this in a bigger post out already

how is that omgus?

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:15 am
by Andresvmb
In post 287, Iconeum wrote:
In post 285, Datisi wrote:
In post 283, Andresvmb wrote:Also, can somebody other than Iconeum come up with a definition of OMGUS’ing that most of us can agree on?
voting someone purely because they voted you?
this is the definition of omgus

it's clearly not what i'm doing

and i'm extremely sick and tired of these misreps
When a player immediately votes back someone who is voting their slot, it very often gets looked at as OMGUS’ing because it is hard to see such a move as genuine. If I had to boil down my skepticism of your slot into one argument, it would be that.

I also find the constant appeal to emotion difficult to interpret. You appear “agitated” and angry or upset about how VPB and I are reading you. This is not constructive.

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:16 am
by VP Baltar
Making bad points to justify a vote doesn't make it less OMGUS.

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:19 am
by Andresvmb
It’s funny, I can be guilty of this too. But I try my very best not to be openly hostile because when these arguments get heated to the point where there’s no turning back, and it actually contains both Town, Scum can so easily hide behind it.

I think my suspicion and vote are fair, to be fully transparent. But I also want to see some players that have not posted for a while come back and share some views.

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:22 am
by VP Baltar
Agree, that's why I'm not point by pointing this Icon exchange. If Icon is town, this could end up being a huge distraction. Perhaps people who have played with Icon before can weigh in and say if this is typical behavior.

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:26 am
by Datisi
In post 292, VP Baltar wrote:Perhaps people who have played with Icon before can weigh in and say if this is typical behavior.
*waves*

ico can get very annoyed at scumreads he considers unfair, it's not scum!indicative

your thoughts on andres?

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:43 am
by Andresvmb
In post 293, Datisi wrote:
In post 292, VP Baltar wrote:Perhaps people who have played with Icon before can weigh in and say if this is typical behavior.
*waves*

ico can get very annoyed at scumreads he considers unfair, it's not scum!indicative

your thoughts on andres?
Can you point me to a game where Ico has had this reaction? I was reading Smuggler’s Port (in which Ico was Town and survived until Endgame) and the way in which they approached the game and responded to some limited pressure seems very different to me.

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:46 am
by Datisi
i mean, it is very different because very shortly after receiving said pressure, ico claimed Port Authority, which made him confirmed town, so... (also how do you miss that when the entire game was revolving around it?)

i can probably dig around our games later on, i'll get back to you.

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:55 am
by Andresvmb
In post 295, Datisi wrote:i mean, it is very different because very shortly after receiving said pressure, ico claimed Port Authority, which made him confirmed town, so... (also how do you miss that when the entire game was revolving around it?)

i can probably dig around our games later on, i'll get back to you.
I did not read the setup in detail - I was more looking for combativeness after a SR read. What I’m seeing in that game is a much more relaxed attitude in general, probing players who still don’t read Ico as Town with some light-hearted jabs.

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:59 am
by Datisi
i mean... light hearted jabs... because he's about to claim a role that is going to make him confirmed town. it's probably the worst game you could've picked.

Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:34 am
by Umlaut
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Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:34 am
by Umlaut
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