Dark Age of the Law Mafia GAME OVER

[Guyett]

yeah I assumed as much... just didn't see it :/

[Guyett]

so much winging it haha

[beastcharizard]

My preference is SK>scum>VT>Town PR

As a PR I feel way to much pressure to stay alive so I can use my action thus I try not to get on anyone's radar. By doing that I just look even scummier. As scum I can just do what I want really. As third party I feel I can play most town looking because I need to scum hunt but I don't care about anyone in the game because I need them all dead.

I was so nervous this game because of being a PR. Add to that the Mod almost not letting me play the game it gave me added pressure to sort of "prove" that I can be skillful in some way. When I got the guilty on Bert though I didn't think anyone was going to believe me either. I figured I would be the last town mislynch and then we would have a low chance of actually winning the game. Also, this was probably the first time I was useful as a PR. All my other games I did crazy stupid stuff that made sense only in my head.

[Sakura Hana]

See... just as i said, Occam's Razor.

[beastcharizard]

What? I am confused now.

[Sakura Hana]

Occam's razor says that the simplest theory is probably the correct one, that being that you got a guilty on bertnacho was because you were a gunsmith and they were scum, and that's that.

[Sakura Hana]

tho i typo'd lol but yeah: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... %27s_Razor

[Katsuki]

Also i'd like to apologize i was the one who contacted the mods about avatar bets and site rules and what not, I just felt that it was a cheap way of katsuki to get me to townread him and i felt that i couldn't stop voting him just based off that, that's why i held my vote there until the modkill...

I'm more surprised that you took it seriously and had I not been modkilled I would've CAPSLOCKED you to death so it was probably a good thing (I got what I wanted to get out of you with that post, which I don't know why you made as town (don't answer this)). Fishing for modkills is scum motivated.

Regarding my avatar bet post... Countless ones (I can count 10 off the top of my head) have been made in games I've been a part of, and I have posted such rhetoric before too. Needless to say I was extraordinarily upset at the modkill and had some choice words for certain people. This is the first game I've ever seen a modkill over "avatar bets" (it wasn't). My post didn't get through due to thread lock, but I can't go posting for a 1v1 because that's just stupid given this setup.

I'm over it though and would rather not discuss it further.

tl;dr, modkilling over avatar bets is stupid considering it's just rhetoric and isn't even binding in the first place.

[Natirasha]

K so (as everyone knows) this game was really my design. It started right after Secret Alt Mafia ended and during Red Wine--there was a lot of talk about 3v12 vs 4v11 in balancing 15p games. During this same time, I was playing Ace Attorney 5 and, well, things kinda fell into place as I was developing some fanon.

The difficult thing with previous AA mafia games is that, really, the game doesn't suit itself flavorfully to the theme--but it gets really, really close, which is why I think the series' theme has been done so many times on the site. I have a fairly intense devotion to the series and take the canon pretty seriously, so I struck upon AA4's introduction of the Jurist system in-universe to slowly create a reason for mafia to be played in the world. The gap between the original series and AA4-5 let me play with a lot of flavor so as to not abuse the limited castings in any of the timeframes specifically. What I'm saying is, well, flavor WAS important to the creation of this game--I WANTED people to flavorgame and I wanted to stay true to the series rather than simply use it as a template for a game.

The specific modifiers of this game were due to those specific effects--the day three end is a rather obvious twist on the fact the trials in-series have a max of three days. I wanted four scum to help prove that, but giving only six lynches to the town to lynch four was, well, broken, so the White Flag mechanic was introduced to balance it. As some guessed during the game, the reason for calling this game 'skill-intensive' was simply due to the fact the town had to maintain a 50% lynch rate to win.

The first role added to the game was Quercus Alba's role. I've wanted to play with an unlynchable scum role before, but never had the setup to make it work. The introduction of white flag and a specific deadline meant I could work off it--being unlynchable is mute in a sense when you can still lose due to your buddy's. I expected the role to be played in a complete WIFOM style, sowing as much chaos on it's flip as possible. Sadly, Tar maintained a stance that his role was negative-utility and I feel never really tried to use the role to it's full advantage.

Wright/Edgeworth/Shelly were all added to clear a fair number of townies from the start. They were the same throughout the setup.

The first setup that I presented to Cabd/SSK, though had Blackquill as a messenger and fulbright as a 1-shot anytime vig. Also, Oldbag was a roleblocker. vig was changed to triplevoter because I had this game balanced specifically around six kills and was worried about town POEing the game out too easily. To compensate for that, I bumped Blackquill up to a friendly neighbor...then removed Oldbag's roleblock, lol, because I'm stupid.

Oh, and the two informed townies were thrown in for no real reason--and the outcome was as I expected in game. As I said in the deadthread, I didn't expect people to clear Katarina so easily off the triplevoter--I imposed my own views on the role too harshly, I guess.

The Katsuki modkill I don't really care about, although I bitched at SSK and Cabd after it happened--if it had happened any other time than when I was doing double-shifts at work two days straight, I would have made the modkill progress the game to the second lynch. Alas, timing got in the way and it happened, the game was pretty much over. :/

I'll write flavor tomorrow prob for the rest of the game.

[Natirasha]

As always, I LOVE LOVE LOVE when people talk to me about the setup. If anyone has any comments(especially FakeGod/Tarhalindur if you're still here), I really do want to hear it, so please don't hesitate--good or bad.

[FakeGod]

If we assume that both ICs claim right away and that there are no other PRs,

then town only has 21.7% of winning this game

.

If we assume that there are 3 ICs who all claim right away and there are no other PRs,

then town only has 27.2% of winning this game.

If we assume that there are 4 ICs who all claim right away and there are no other PRs,

then town only has 34.8% of winning this game.

If we assume that there are 5 ICs who all claim right away and there are no other PRs,

then town only has <44% of winning this game.

Above numbers are all real. I ran the numbers midgame when I was using setup spec.

The game actually looks well-balanced from probabilities POV. Did you run the numbers yourself when you were designing?

[FakeGod]

I think Tar was right in that Unlynchable Guilty child was a negative utility.

Any scum role that is guaranteed to flip before game's end is negative utility for the scum team I think. (this is the same problem Mafia Usurper + Godfather has)

[Natirasha]

Do I ever run numbers?

[FakeGod]

I sure hope so!

[Sakura Hana]

I felt kinda useless most of the game tho, I was scumreading Doduo and SoS, and every single scumread of mine towned it up and then I ended up lynching my strongest townread and that was lulz. I don't know what ETL's going on about me playing pretty well this game.

[FakeGod]

Just sheep me then!

[Sakura Hana]

I kinda was secretly scumreading your slot because you said you were doing the posting while Gaiden was hidden in the QT, and Gaiden knows i can tell his alignment easily so... i thought he was hiding from me.

[Antihero]

i thought you were just fine, sakura.

you contributing to the "anti is town" echo chamber really took a lot of pressure off me and foiled the scumbag's planned 1v1 (which incidentally also preserved my sanity, so i really appreciate that)

[Prophylaxis]

I feel like the setup was very unforgiving for mistakes on either side - the town simply outplayed us, and PoE + our terrible interactions just sealed the game with Bertkerberos's flip.

@Nat: Tar's internet broke again so he'll probably comment on the setup tomorrow, but a nugget from our QT:

(Also, pay attention to how Ein reacts when completely caught - that's EXACTLY what I have planned for D3 here if we make it that far. Spam the thread in a naked effort to completely demoralize the town, safe in the knowledge that THEY CAN'T LYNCH US. Just with more DEFCON 3 references.)

[Sakura Hana]

I didnt meantion this but... this post:

So, Tar has flaked, and I get prodded about a game I haven't been reading along since page.. 20 or so.

Wat do.

I see we're at L-2, and Day is ending soon. Blegh.

I see BK has flipped scum, good, but tomorrow we'll need to lynch through two scum bodies to win - I'm not optimistic about that, given that a single mislynch could lose the game for us.

But.. eh. I have very little invested in this game given that I stopped playing around three weeks ago, so you're welcome to lynch me, I guess?

*shrug*

~p

Basically if I wasn't paranoid about your doctor claim i'd have voted you right here, this isn't like you when you were on NY 169.

[FakeGod]

I am Shelly de Killer. I already said that.

This man just singlehandedly may have won the game for town.

Yes. bc getting guilty on Nacho was a godsend.

I mean OMGWTFBBQ.

[Prophylaxis]

I didnt meantion this but... this post:

Basically if I wasn't paranoid about your doctor claim i'd have voted you right here, this isn't like you when you were on NY 169.

Well, I'm not exactly sure how I could have saved myself showing up 15 hours before deadline having already claimed - got prodded around that time, and that was just mostly proddodge (because replacing out is dumb).

Tried to imitate myself viewing the thread after "quitting" mid-Day 1 or so, but :shrug: - like I said in the scumchat, I could not see a route to victory.

I absolutely despise playing scum, and it sucks most of the fun of the game for me, hence my apathy here. I really wish we were town, since my usual way of PoEing out the gamestate, plus Tar's analysis skills meant that we could have pummeled the scum in this game in short order.

[notscience]

NATI I DIDNT CLEAR HER SO QUICKLY ARENT YOU PROUD

[Nachomamma8]

:'(

[Metal Sonic]

Hello friends when I call everyone out and tell you to lynch scum It would be a good idea to lynch said person sooner rather than later!!! (Candle jack)

Especially @ fferygif >:(