Newbie 2054 - GAME OVER

[Meuh]

i mean a chainsaw needs pretty specific conditions. knowing i'm town, scumreading 2nd and feeling somewhere around null on kazy though, i do see it as a possibility, although scum probably wouldn't make themselves so obvious, if this is kazy and 2nd, then they're playing this pretty poorly imo.

[Nexus]

Votecount 1.8:

2ndchosen1 (3) -

Krazy, Meuh, ItalianoVD

Meuh (2) -

eth0s, Kazyan

Krazy (1) -

2ndchosen1

eth0s (1) -

Harumi Ayasato

ItalianoVD (1) -

Cantripmancer

Harumi Ayasato (1) -

marcistar

Not voting (0) -

With 9 alive it takes 5 to eliminate. Day 1 will end at 11am GMT on the 20th February 2021 - (expired on 2021-02-20 11:00:00)

[Krazy]

2ndchosen1 confirmed scum double voter

[marcistar]

Just to make sure everyone's following, what's being discussed here is "a player (Marci/Kazyan) who defends another player (2ndchosen) by attacking the other player's attacker (Meuh) is very probably scum" and if the scenario fits that description/warrants a scumread on Marci and/or Kazyan.

didnt i attack you before i ever mentioned 2nd?

[Harumi Ayasato]

I don't believe that the chainsaw defense really applies here, due mainly to the fact that Meuh can essentially say "you're voting for me, I am scumreading 2nd who had a wagon, therefore you're chainsawing" which is as ridiculous as it sounds. For that matter, the wiki page itself (

which you quoted

) says that it's a null tell without flips (i.e. now).

I do agree with Kazyan that Meuh is inconsistent with their votes, and seems to be very manipulative with how apologetic they are when called out.
Your read on eth0s also implies that you think people voting for you is scummy, which I don't really agree with.

So not looking super good right now. Let's see about 2nd.

[Harumi Ayasato]

2nd hasn't posted as much as Meuh, but it's hard for me to point out anything specifically wrong with them. I'm just getting a bad feeling regarding them, like they're not being sincere.
So I'm going to VOTE: Meuh for now, but 2nd is going on my PoE.

[Krazy]

2nd hasn't posted as much as Meuh, but it's hard for me to point out anything specifically wrong with them. I'm just getting a bad feeling regarding them, like they're not being sincere.
So I'm going to VOTE: Meuh for now, but 2nd is going on my PoE.

The way this post keeps both options open to me feels just a touch scummy

Could you do a readslist maybe?

[Kazyan]

I would also like Harumi's readslist.

Here's mine, with Harumi absent, because it will depend on her response:

Townread

:
IVD

Townlean

:
Krazy
marci
Cantrip

Null

:
2ndchosen1

Scumlean

:
eth0s (for his conspicuous silence)

Wow such scum

:
Meuh

[Meuh]

I don't believe that the chainsaw defense really applies here, due mainly to the fact that Meuh can essentially say "you're voting for me, I am scumreading 2nd who had a wagon, therefore you're chainsawing" which is as ridiculous as it sounds. For that matter, the wiki page itself (

which you quoted

) says that it's a null tell without flips (i.e. now).

I do agree with Kazyan that Meuh is inconsistent with their votes, and seems to be very manipulative with how apologetic they are when called out.
Your read on eth0s also implies that you think people voting for you is scummy, which I don't really agree with.

So not looking super good right now. Let's see about 2nd.

I think it's chainsawing, but like the wiki says yeah, it's a null tell. Someone brought up chainsaw, I said I think it applies to it, but I don't really scumread Kazy for it. Like I've already established, my read on Kazy is null, not scum.

Me saying chainsaw applies to the scenario ≠ me saying Kazy is scum for it.

[Krazy]

I don't scumresd ethos for activity atm, but I am curious why he insisted he had good availability right now then proceeded to not post since that one big burst

[Meuh]

@Nexus Isn't Marci voting Harumi?

[Meuh]

Just to make sure everyone's following, what's being discussed here is "a player (Marci/Kazyan) who defends another player (2ndchosen) by attacking the other player's attacker (Meuh) is very probably scum" and if the scenario fits that description/warrants a scumread on Marci and/or Kazyan.

didnt i attack you before i ever mentioned 2nd?

Yeah? I don't think you're chainsawing, Marci. You've been pushing me for reasons unrelated to 2nd.

[Nexus]

@Nexus Isn't Marci voting Harumi?

Thanks. Please can I request that votes are on a new line wherever possible - I keep missing them unintentionally

[Kazyan]

I wonder what Cantrip's hot take on this is going to be. (Or eth0s, for that matter)

[Cantripmancer]

Ok, I normally hate posting before I'm fully caught up, but I don't want y'all to have to wait. So here are my thoughts through 274.

Fair. I mean for me it's partly PoE. I have Flip, Kazy, and eth0s as pretty hard town right now. If those three reads are right, even throwing darts at a dartboard on the remaining slots has a pretty good chance of flipping red.

Who's Flip?

I've read through your readslist Krazy and I didn't know what to think about it, because as I said I'd like to hope you are townie, but I just don't know, however, the tone of 215 feels like caught scum to me.

The progression of your perspective feels weird, IVD. You read through Krazy's reads and a) don't know what to think about them, but b) you "like to hope" they're town, but c) you just don't know, BUT d) you agree with Krazy on their scumspect (2ndChosen). Why the quadruple(!) waffle there? Why not just say "I don't know if you're town, Krazy, but I agree with your Chosen read because of..."?

However, I can agree with your take here:

This:

I was just trying to get in the conversation after not really seeing anything of major significance.

...

"I was just"

feels like "how could you scumread me, I'm doing what everyone else is doing?" which just feels like disappointed scum to me.

And this:

the "why did you think the emotes are that important Krazy" question was more a "Am I missing something?" question.

Feels like a backpedal. When 2nd came out he wasn't necessarily trying to see if he was missing something, iirc he came out pretty confidently with his reads and his questioning, but when Krazy called him out and started scumreading him, his tone changed. Now it feels like he's pleading. What do you think @Krazy, @Kazyan, @Meuh, @Ethos [@Cantrip]

This I'm a bit lukewarm on, though, as I've felt that kind of tone change from newer players (regardless of alignment). It's NAI for me.

I'm saying that I've been in a total of two games, the rest of my experience is literally just among us. My first game I expressed behavior I find similar to yours, and I was scum in that game. specifically the read listing and the "I don't know what I'm doing though" remind me of myself in that game.
"Playing dumb" I'm just genuinely not sure what he's saying there? and I haven't played a serious or read based mafia game since like... April
I don't know how many games you've done on these other sites, and maybe your skills have degraded since, I also haven't played Settler's of Catan in over a year and yet I feel I could still play a mean game of it, I would expect certain fundamentals to be around.

I understand that you haven't necessarily played on this site before. Forum posting isn't exactly my forte either, I don't think I've really got a handle on tone to any real degree for any role. it's why I initially have taken you as Nullread. What do you think of me right now? has any of the others voting on me or you stood out and why?

Were you scum in both games, or was your second game town? I know I've seen plenty of new town players express feelings of "I don't know what I'm doing". I'm not even sure I'm parsing this post and 243 correctly, though. Are you just trying to discredit Meuh's argument?

Marci it will be hard to find you town at endgame if you keep not voting, we need your vote to be proactive so that vote logic is comprehensible in the game

I agree with the sentiment here, but the language feels a little like a threat ("if you keep not voting, you're more likely to be seen as scum"). Why use this wording rather than just saying "not voting makes it harder to read players later in the game; please vote so we have that info to analyze later"?

Why do you have ~a level~ of confidence in harumi being scum, moreso than chosen who you've indicated is null?

im not super confident in harumi being scum, but out of everyone she seems the most scummy.

when i looked at chosens posts it looks like defending themself, which i dont rlly see anything wrong in them..? i cant see whats scummy about them at all..? i think they're just an easy push for some people to make (from what i understand they were scum their last game..? i havent read it at all, but if they were scum last of their games, u guys seem to be not giving much of a chance this time to them..?)

vs harumi who i think doesnt rlly have a level of confidence.. idk but i thought in newbie games i thought scum would be more nervous..? i think her not having confidence = shes nervous = shes scum...

i also have thought about other possible votes i could make but i dont think it would be very uhh... have very good logic behind it?
im so bad at carrying im sorry

Marci still so town.

@Marci: Defensiveness itself isn't necessarily scummy. When I see defensiveness, I often look at two things: the degree of the reaction within the context of the game (i.e. did one player attack them and they posted a wall of defensiveness?), and whether or not they continue scumhunting at the same time. For that latter, looking at Chosen's 215 as one example, I'm not a fan of the "Is there something you'd like me to expound on" question, but I like that they're scrutinizing Krazy's intent between saying both that they're assertive and don't want to be the mayor. (I don't agree with Chosen that it's contradictory, but it's something I see from them beyond just being defensive.)

Imagine having a whole debate about whether 2ndchosen1 is scummy when Meuh is right there, being scum.

Ok, we get it that you're confident in your Meuh read. I can certainly see where you're coming from, but...I'm not sure that voting pattern only comes from opportunistic scum. Your strongest example is the Chosen read, I think, but even then, Meuh

has

reasoning for their change in opinion (with points not brought up by others, afaict). So...I like your push, but I'm not sure I agree that Meuh is scum.

My new thing was the method I used to figure out who was scum: figure out how a person's actions, in their ISO, make sense

if

they're scum--just assume they are and work out the details. If nothing makes sense, then the starting assumption of scumminess can't be correct. For most people, I could not thus construct a narrative that made sense--but for Meuh, everything clicked immediately.

I did this for a while, and I found that I started tunneling town more often than correctly finding scum. It's too easy for my brain to go "hey, this

could

make sense if they're scum". YMMV, of course, so this isn't a "stop! don't go down that path!" as much as it is a cautionary tale.

[Krazy]

Who's Flip?

uhh you are, idk why I called you flip there, I think I started conflating "flip" and "trip" in my brain, I've played with someone named "flip" a lot. (emperor flippynips, he mostly has moved on to stealth alts now tho)

I agree with the sentiment here, but the language feels a little like a threat ("if you keep not voting, you're more likely to be seen as scum"). Why use this wording rather than just saying "not voting makes it harder to read players later in the game; please vote so we have that info to analyze later"?

probably cause I want to be right about marci and my ego will be bruised if either a) if she flips scum or b) if she gets misflipped as town

[Krazy]

I wonder if Harumi is scum and I did accidentally destroy her wagon but on the other hand I still don't know that chosen has actually done anything that makes me want to move off him

still need a good take from eth0s on this gamestate and looking forward to the rest of TRIP'S catchup

[Nexus]

Votecount 1.9:

2ndchosen1 (3) -

Krazy, Meuh, ItalianoVD

Meuh (3) -

Alisae, Kazyan, Harumi Ayasato

Krazy (1) -

2ndchosen1

ItalianoVD (1) -

Cantripmancer

Harumi Ayasato (1) -

marcistar

Not voting (0) -

With 9 alive it takes 5 to eliminate. Day 1 will end at 11am GMT on the 20th February 2021 - (expired on 2021-02-20 11:00:00)

Alisae replaces eth0s. Thanks to em.

[Alisae]

[Alisae]

btw I haven't played a newbie game since matrix6 i have no idea what the setup is I just came to

bully

play with the newest and latest talent.
UNVOTE:

[Krazy]

woooow

alisae are you stalking me

also <3 hiiiiiiiiii~~~~~

[Krazy]

I need reads on Harumi and 2ndchosen1 from you Alisae-chan <3 <3 <3

[Alisae]

hold on im busy digging for mhsmith old IC posts they're gold.

[Alisae]

and tbh im stalking marcistar not u god

[Krazy]

aka you need to read the scum pt to remember which one's your buddy so you can bus? :3 :3 :3