In post 2466, fireisredsir wrote:imo the only question is if it makes sense for the setup to have an even-night gunsmith and then a backup gunsmith (which is apparently not even-night). and to that i really have no idea
this was my exact thought process with the claim, like, if backup is "more powerful" makes NO SENSE... yet Umlaut jumped straight to defending the claim, no questions about it
I still don't see why this was ever implausible. Like, it's not how the setup worked out to be but I think even-night gunsmith + backup gunsmith could make sense in some setup. Your "disbelieving" it smacks of TMI. Like you were in "busing Nero" mode and not prepared to back away from it yet even though it didn't even make sense there.
I am super IRL busy and will respond to the rest over the weekend but grabbed this post to answer now because it is short
In post 2459, Scorpious wrote:is Nero's role mechanically possible? I need the big brains for this one.
How would it not be possible? Even-Night Gunsmith is a normal role, that's all that's required.
Instantly jumping to defend nero, but this time interaction with your partner "for distance"
I love how you are taking the fact it doesn't make sense for me to argue with Scorpius about this if we're scum buddies and then using it as a reason we are because "he just did it to look good"
Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2022 7:56 pm
by Stephen A Smith
pls dont respond to everything she said
just give me your #1 best reason why andante is mafia or you are town(can give me one of each if you like)
wall of text back and forths are just not very useful.
In post 2466, fireisredsir wrote:imo the only question is if it makes sense for the setup to have an even-night gunsmith and then a backup gunsmith (which is apparently not even-night). and to that i really have no idea
this was my exact thought process with the claim, like, if backup is "more powerful" makes NO SENSE... yet Umlaut jumped straight to defending the claim, no questions about it
I still don't see why this was ever implausible. Like, it's not how the setup worked out to be but I think even-night gunsmith + backup gunsmith could make sense in some setup. Your "disbelieving" it smacks of TMI. Like you were in "busing Nero" mode and not prepared to back away from it yet even though it didn't even make sense there.
I am super IRL busy and will respond to the rest over the weekend but grabbed this post to answer now because it is short
See I already addressed the "bussing part" if I was bussing, why would I unvote Nero at all? You really think it's plausible we have an even night role, and a regular backup?? Like I believe I even said, if nero was real, why not just kill the even night and let us have a full gs? If you want to call that TMI, I sure can call a lot of your posts TMI.... like, anytime you questioned/came up with a read it felt so weird... likely stemmed from TMI. The fact you picked this post to respond to to "avoid being prodded" and you didn't read any of the other... like, later I go "so it could be argued bussing, but here's why it can't be" so maybe you did read them all, and really don't have a good reason to defend there, and are like "andante knows this can be seen as bussing, easy I'll go with that! then I don't have to do anything for 36 hours"
In post 2459, Scorpious wrote:is Nero's role mechanically possible? I need the big brains for this one.
How would it not be possible? Even-Night Gunsmith is a normal role, that's all that's required.
Instantly jumping to defend nero, but this time interaction with your partner "for distance"
I love how you are taking the fact it doesn't make sense for me to argue with Scorpius about this if we're scum buddies and then using it as a reason we are because "he just did it to look good"
It doesn't make sense... you like only talked to nero, scorp and dwlee, and anytime there was anything serious, you disappeared, so my guess is by talking with partners, you felt safe. you could say anything you wanted and they wouldn't flip onto you, and dwlee was so focused on eyes that there was like no way they flip to anyone else
just give me your #1 best reason why andante is mafia or you are town(can give me one of each if you like)
wall of text back and forths are just not very useful.
notice how Umlaut said they could town case themself, and still haven't done that... instead they responds to my posts saying stuff I already defended...
just give me your #1 best reason why andante is mafia or you are town(can give me one of each if you like)
wall of text back and forths are just not very useful.
I will do this when I can sit down and read for more than three minutes at a time.
Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2022 4:54 am
by Umlaut
Also, as a real-world request to Andante the person, please don"t insinuate I am lying about being IRL busy, as you are with comments like the end of 3278.
Anyone who has seen my town and scum games knows my activity and engagement level vary a lot and cannot be used to predict my alignment. You probably don't know that and I know you have to make the most convincing case you can to Stephen and see whatever you can find even though you know I'm town, but it actually does bother me to be accused of lying about RL stuff. So, like, do your thing but leave that part out please?
Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2022 9:23 am
by Stephen A Smith
I don't really care about activity tbh.
Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2022 9:25 am
by Stephen A Smith
I'll make a decision after I see Umlaut's best reasons.
Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2022 10:24 am
by Datisi
vote count 6.02
with 3 votes in play, it takes 2 to make a decision. day 6 ends in (expired on 2022-03-22 12:30:00).
Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2022 1:35 pm
by Andante
In post 3286, Umlaut wrote:Also, as a real-world request to Andante the person, please don"t insinuate I am lying about being IRL busy, as you are with comments like the end of 3278.
Anyone who has seen my town and scum games knows my activity and engagement level vary a lot and cannot be used to predict my alignment. You probably don't know that and I know you have to make the most convincing case you can to Stephen and see whatever you can find even though you know I'm town, but it actually does bother me to be accused of lying about RL stuff. So, like, do your thing but leave that part out please?
Sorry, not trying to specifically call you out cause you're busy, it's more like, when you are here, it's what you choose to focus on, like I get it we're all busy, I don't expect everyone here to just dedicate a month of their life only to this game.. idk it's whatever I only have 2 days left of this.
As annoyed as I am that stephen literally won't just vote Umlaut, I guess I can understand this whole "giving Umlaut a chance to defend themself" thing even though Umlaut is choosing to do everything but that right now...
Umlaut: I could town case myself
Me: Yeah do that I really want to see
Umlaut: Says I'm bussing
gg good talk.
Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2022 1:37 pm
by Andante
lol Datisi I'm laughing way too hard at your VC notes though XD I could just unvote and re vote every page.... lol jk I won't do that.. only a maximum of 59 hours left of this... wooooo technically I only need to dodge a prod once in that
Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2022 5:42 pm
by Stephen A Smith
well fwiw you know im leaning towards voting for umlaut since if i wanted to vote for you i wouldnt ask umlaut for _____ so.
Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2022 5:42 pm
by Stephen A Smith
just giving him a chance to make his case
Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2022 5:45 am
by Andante
In post 3292, Stephen A Smith wrote:well fwiw you know im leaning towards voting for umlaut since if i wanted to vote for you i wouldnt ask umlaut for _____ so.
lol I mean, when I was reading through it looked like you had the exact same thoughts on umlaut as me, so I'm not super concerned, just was bored and felt like putting in a bunch of effort here!! also just wanted to make sure last minute you weren't gonna be like "haha voting andante!!" cause I'm town!!!
Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2022 4:40 pm
by Stephen A Smith
if there is nothing from umlaut before Monday mid day I will hammer
Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2022 8:41 pm
by Datisi
prodding Umlaut.
Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2022 2:57 am
by Umlaut
Contrary to what Andante says, I think the most towny thing about me is my consistent advocacy for eliminating Nero on days 1 and 2, vs. her back-and-forth on that slot depending on whether it looked like it was savable or not. I think the only time I unvoted Nero on Day 2 was after the PR claim, and any look at my track record will show that I
always
back off from PR claims unless they are absolutely untenable. The fact that HockeyFan's claim seemed to corroborate his makes me more suspicious of anyone who
didn't
back off after seeing that (except of course Fire who knew better). Once there was a counterclaim I was immediately back on him.
I'll find some posts to support this but you can just look at my ISO, it's not all that long.
Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2022 3:06 am
by Umlaut
Trying to find that information and instead found a reminder of how Scorpius was shitpushing me all day 1 and then backed off when they saw no one was going for it.
This slot is useless right now. Will gladly remove vote if content is produced. Just a smart play to get rid of this slot.
It’s either VT or a scum role nobody wants. Unless I get proven differently by someone showing they want to play it..
In post 1072, Frozen Angel wrote:Not actually I have a town read on the worst for overkill last post not even realizing he is replaced out and worst reacting in real time to discussions felt natuaral. And stephen is an early town lean of mine for his early reation test but i have less confidence with that read.
Why is everyone being so ok with this slot(Umlaut) doing nothing? I swear if it gets to the point where people want to lim it,I'm looking at everyone that questioned me for bringing it up.
This is literally the fist time I've seen a lot get so much leeway 7 days into a game with 8 posts.
In post 1450, Andante wrote:greeting was literally only called out for not being around... that's how these easy pushes work... "too much pressure is going towards maf? distract with this!!!"
exactly. I got called out for pushing umlaut, and I was wrong.. now it looks scummy
If you believe that's busing I don't know what to tell you, that would be the dumbest goddamn bus in the world.
Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2022 3:25 am
by Umlaut
Please actually read the below, because I feel like you are likely to vote me without realizing how implausible it is that I could ever be scum with Nero. Spoilering it to save you the scrolling but read it anyway.
Spoiler: A bunch of posts I made about Nero
In post 691, Umlaut wrote:
Townreading Frozen Angel; scumreading Andante; think wavemode made decent points about Eyes/Nero and want to take another look at them after catch-up.
Pretty much immediately put Nero on my scumdar based on FA's case
In post 788, Umlaut wrote:Haven't done more catchup and probably won't have time to do more today since I'm at work (and then doing Valentine's Day stuff) but I like that both Fire and Frozen seem to have actually made the effort to read what I've written so far. And I also like that Frozen is arguing points with me even though I called her town.
In post 694, Nero Cain wrote:scum are far more likely to claim a PR to get out of an elimination than town unless said town is a pr. Not impossible that we did hit a town pr and I guess the correct play might be to give him a day or 2
Agree with others this is ugly, that first sentence compresses to "town who isn't a PR is unlikely to say they are" which is not exactly a revelation.
In post 1140, Umlaut wrote:I'm just going to give up on trying to catch up with this game since there have been 15 more pages posted since I started reading the first 15 pages, and
VOTE: Nero Cain
because nothing I've seen from him has made me think he's town, and I really disliked his reaction to the HockeyFan claim.
In post 1394, Umlaut wrote:I could vote Andante but Nero is still the bigger wagon and I like it more.
My first vote of the game onto Nero when I could just as easily vote Andante or any of the other more popular candidates if I were scum. Nero was kind of an underdog wagon at the time
to make a case on Nero that's already been made but: Vote onto Hockey wagon early was bad, hedgey fence-sitting "this claim is probably fake unless it's real" reaction was bad and exactly what I expect from scum hoping to let a miselim go through without getting blamed for it, hyperdefensive response to my asking Andante to explain her townread, comes out badly in back-and-forth with FA, haven't seen anything particularly "I wouldn't expect that from scum" to counter any of this
In post 1491, Andante wrote:idk what I want here.. I don't want this nero wagon to go through, I don't like too many on the wagon. I want a coaster d1
me too
So did you ever want the Nero wagon? Or if not why were you on it?
Challenging Scorpius on his lack of commitment to the wagon. If you believe Nero was double-bused this aggressively D1 I have a bridge to sell you.
In post 1590, Umlaut wrote:Not especially interested in Greeting wagon, I feel like he's answered my questions adequately and the case doesn't really impress me. This is a hard game to keep caught up with and I don't think Greeting struggling with that is indicative of anything.
We're getting kind of short on time. Nero wagon seems to have disintegrated but it's come back from that before and I have hope it will again. Failing that, someone sell me on something else because I agree with Worst there are a lot of people in the "wouldn't be too sad if they died" zone.
As scum busing I would absolutely take this opportunity to say "there's no time, need to consolidate" and vote someone else.
In post 1980, Eyes without a face wrote:My first thought is that someone's desperate to frame Nero. Greeting was his counterwagon and only Frozen was voting him along with Greeting.
This means that once again I won't be voting Nero today. In fact that's the first thing I have decided to do (or not to do actually) today.
I think you are overthinking this.
VOTE: Nero Cain
Rejecting WIFOM explanations for why that kill would exonerate Nero and insisting, no, the simple explanation is correct, it's just Nero killing whoever is inconvenient to him. Which in fact was the case!
In post 2171, HockeyFan wrote:Well theres 2 possibillites here that you likely need to look at b4 coming to this conclusion
A. both scum and eyes is trying to make nero look good
B. Eyes, as mafia is defending Nero town to make nero look
bad
Now, I also think Eyes is town, but not because Eyes is defending Nero
Do you really think the advantage of "making Nero look bad" outweighs the immediate advantage of not getting launched? Or that scum!Eyes would think it does?
In post 2446, Umlaut wrote:
Again rejecting explanations that could allow Nero to be town. I will not deny that I am willing to bus as scum but I would not go out of my way to demand town yeet my buddy like this
In post 2439, Nero Cain wrote:I'm an even night gunsmith so lets not vote town and TW instead.
UNVOTE: Nero
Provisionally accepting this claim, may revisit later depending on what happens. Nero would be a good investigation target if someone has an investigation that distinguishes Town Gunsmith from Mafia [Whatever].
Hockey, can you say whether you are a backup gunsmith specifically, or a backup of something else? (No need to say what else if not gunsmith)
Yes, I unvoted and "provisionally accepted" the claim. I also asked a question of Hockey to try and better confirm the plausibility of the claim, which is all you should need to see that I was not 100% committed to believing it. I wasn't 100% committed until we had had literally two corroborating claims (Hockey's and wave's) without a counterclaim.
In post 2485, wavemode wrote:what if I told you that I'm a 1-shot rolecop and I know for a fact that hockeyfan is a backup 1-shot gunsmith
so my knee jerk reaction to nero's claim was, how did he know to claim gunsmith of all things? hockey had not told us what he was a backup for
unless they are mafia GS and mafia backup GS? which, wow wtf. but it's technically possible I suppose. still, it's strange to claim that together and become joined at the hip (the typical risk associated with mason fakeclaims)
I believe this 100% (or as close to 100% as I ever believe anything in this game) and think it pretty much clears both Hockey and Nero unless there is some further mechanical revelation to the contrary.
I just can't imagine a setup with town gunsmith and scum backup gunsmith, or vice versa, would pass review, because it's way too swingy (you kill an opposing power role and your own team gets even
more
powerful as a result? That's, like, the opposite of how to keep a game balanced).
I
can
imagine a setup with scum gunsmith and scum backup gunsmith, but I don't believe Hockey and Nero make this sort of absurd all-in in the case where they're both scum. If they did it should be obvious eventually.
Pedit
never mind
VOTE: Nero
Immediately reversed course as soon as there was a cc. Can't claim towncred for this alone because it's not like scum had any choice but to vote Nero at that point but it should show you how disconnected from reality Andante's "UmLaUt TrIeD tO pRoTeCt NeRo" assertions really are.
