Mafiascum.net

↑ Empking wrote:Yesv I have serious intentions of running it soon.

In theory I don't have that any problems with letting this game run. It looks like it suffers similar problems as the 6P Lovers setup, though. Every town player needs to be correct and vote together to lynch a scum (assuming scum don't bus) - that's an awfully difficult prospect on D1 with no information. Getting correct lynches requiring every townie to be right is going to be even harder, don't you think?

↑ Hoopla wrote:

↑ Empking wrote:Yesv I have serious intentions of running it soon.

In theory I don't have that any problems with letting this game run. It looks like it suffers similar problems as the 6P Lovers setup, though. Every town player needs to be correct and vote together to lynch a scum (assuming scum don't bus) - that's an awfully difficult prospect on D1 with no information. Getting

two

correct lynches requiring every townie to be right is going to be even harder, don't you think?

I think it'd be rather difficult to get three people not voting one another without making it rather obvious.

I'm aware, but there won't be any voting tells like that in lylo and even then, scum won't vote for each other then, so all you have is D1. It just seems like a slightly more convoluted variant of Lovers Mafia. I'm not a huge fan of two confirmed players in small setup like this either - seems like a cheap mechanic. I think we can give it a shot and see how it goes, though.

Hard Boiled is still an unresolved setup due to a possible breaking strategy. I think the simplest solution that still keeps most of the setup is going from 12 to 13 players and dropping the Hider Tracker. The Det/Psych is a unique facet of the setup that ought to stay and gives the game more depth. I think the Hider Tracker is the least integral role, and it's necessary to lose one role regardless of the game being 12 or 13p.

Going with hitogoroshi's analysis of Rusty Guillotine, I'm happy for it to be binned.

I'm not sure what to make of the Quack setups. It's an interesting mechanic, but I think too much hinges on the town getting lucky in getting rid of the Quacks early. The higher the ratio of quacks the town develops, the less trustworthy using their protections become. Regardless, 3:9 nightstart isn't the right starting base, as all three runs of the game hasn't featured a single night without a nightkill. I think the average amount of nightkills is even closer to two than one going off what we have so far, and given the town has little claiming benefits to their roles, we're essentially dealing with a glamourized mountainous setup, which obviously favours scum. I think whatever solution we use to patch this setup will take it too far away from what it is. I'd prefer someone to just make a new quack setup if this will be missed, but the current version should probably be binned, in my opinion.

Sooooo...

Is this dead or what?

Nobody is really interacting with me, so I'm periodically just making decisions after enough time has passed for someone to object.

Once these last setups are complete, this thread will only be used for approving new setups mods want to run.

I believe you can consider the last six setups as "binned", or rather "binned until somebody comes up with a way to save them".

↑ Hoopla wrote:Hard Boiled is still an unresolved setup due to a possible breaking strategy. I think the simplest solution that still keeps most of the setup is going from 12 to 13 players and dropping the Hider Tracker. The Det/Psych is a unique facet of the setup that ought to stay and gives the game more depth. I think the Hider Tracker is the least integral role, and it's necessary to lose one role regardless of the game being 12 or 13p.

I always thought the Hider Tracker was overpowered anyway.

I support this change, and having participated in the last 3 hard boileds run, I feel okay talking about this set up.

Alright, binning the Quack setups. Binning Rusty Guillotine. Hard Boiled goes up to 13p with the Hider Tracker also removed.

The only setups really left to talk about are Paris Mafia and Tread Carefully, then we're done!

I'll update the wiki pages for those later today.

Double Day -
Picking Simplicity -
Near Vanilla (14P) -
Weak MD (14P) -

Big Love -
Immunity Mafia -
Lovers Multiball -
Ninja Mafia -
The New C9 -

~~

Donner Party -
Medical Mafia -
Mayo Clinic -

Paris Mafia
Tread Carefully

10P Jester Mafia -
12P Jester Mafia -
Dethy -
Quack Mafia -
Quack Multiball -
Rebels in the Palace -
Rusty Guillotine Mafia -
Texas Justice Mafia -
Crush Nightless -

A question I have about Paris Mafia is what happens if a Goon is lynched D1 and then the other Goon and the Vig crosskill each other at night? The town now only has Mimes to deal with which doesn't fulfill the win condition of "eliminating all threats to the town". Does the town win by continuously no-lynching? Or is it a draw? Because they obviously can't lynch now.

I don't think it's fair that the Mimes need to secure their own lynches before the Goons die. Their game is entirely dependent on the scumteam surviving the first day and night, and quite possibly another day and night given how difficult it would be to get lynched as a Mime D1 and D2. I think the Mimes have really low odds of being lynched during the day, without being killed by scum or the vig and without the scumteam dying before them. There is just too much to do. This is even if town doesn't elect to play the game with a no-lynch strategy (which happened last game and fucked the Mimes over). Theoretically you could patch that problem by forcing the town to lynch, but that just creates more problems, like if the Goons are dead or the last Goon/Vig is outed and the town is forced to lynch, the Mimes can just block the final NK floating around to secure their lynch by town being forced to. It's just a messy combination of elements that don't really work.

I don't know how to fix this setup, but it is popular, so I'm willing to listen to ideas on how to fix it, otherwise it faces the chopping block.

I'm thinking of some kind of must-lynch adaption, but it doesn't fix the issue of the scum dying first. Paris should probably be binned.

I have no idea about tread carefully. It should probably be changed so that the same goon can't kill twice in a night. And possibly make it 13p somehow?

Would you have a link to the last paris mafia game?

If the Mimes are the only team alive, then the Town wins if their numbers equal or are lower than the number of Mimes alive, forcing the Town to lynch...?

Or is that just stupid. >__<

↑ mykonian wrote:Would you have a link to the last paris mafia game?

Here you go, myko.

↑ Quilford wrote:If the Mimes are the only team alive, then the Town wins if their numbers equal or are lower than the number of Mimes alive, forcing the Town to lynch...?

Or is that just stupid. >__<

That still doesn't solve the problem if the vig is alive but Goons dead, as the town can then no-lynch to vig through the Mimes... unless you disallowed the town from no-lynching in this scenario too. But then does the game end if the Vig is still alive in a 2-2 endgame? Either way, you're going to have to have annoying arbitrary game rules for multiple scenarios. And I still don't think the Mimes have much of a chance of winning, given they're Lovers and 1 vig/scum kill is all it needs to eliminate them.

No lynching is as usual very determental to the town compared to the scum. The calculations done there are purely focussed on the threat of the mimes. The game is about the double threat for every team.

Mimes are the most fun role in that setup. They are hard to win with. And since people usually play this game for the first time, a lot of attention goes out to them. I don't believe that the no-lynch day 1 was really optimal, only anti-mime optimal. And regardless of all that, I doubt there will a lot of mimes who would complain they don't have an equal chance to win. Few people ever get to play a fun jester, and the mime is exactly that.

It's very hard to improve also, I think. The game is already pretty much stripped of all possible unnecessary bits.

An attempt at a setup as closely related to Paris Mafia as I can get:



1x Mafia Goon
1x Mafia 1-shot BP
2x Mimes
1x Compulsive Vigilante
1x Jailkeeper
6x Townies

~~

- Daystart
- Mimes have a new win condition. . So, if the first Mime is lynched, the second one must be lynched. If the first Mime is nightkilled, the second one must be nightkilled.

- Endgame Rules:
- If ONE Mime is alive after the Goons are dead, the town automatically wins if that Mime's wincon is to be NK'ed, as the Compulsive Vig can shoot itself leaving the Mime no chance for victory. If that ONE Mime's win-con is to be lynched, it is a Town/Mime draw as a no-lynch cycle begins, UNLESS the Vig is still alive, in which case it's a town win as the town can no-lynch continuously and vig everyone else.
If BOTH Mimes are alive after the Goons are dead, the town automatically wins if the Vig is alive as the town has the option of lynching all the players, or vigging all the players, so depending on when the first Mime dies determines how town kills the rest of its players. If the Vig is dead, then it becomes a Mime/Town Draw as town cannot lynch or NK in this situation.
- In a Goon/Townie/Mime With a Lynch Wincon endgame and the Mime is lynched, the Mime's wincon resolves before Mafia's and the Mimes win. If the Townie is lynched the Goon kills the Mime at night to win.
- In a Goon/Townie/Mime With a NK Wincon endgame and the Goon is lynched, it's a Town/Mime draw, as the town player doesn't have the majority to lynch the Mime. If the Townie was lynched, it's a Goon/Mime draw as the Mafia doesn't hold the majority and also can't kill the Mime at night.

Endgame rules are a bit long, but I'm sure you can trim them down into something more readable. This wincon gives Mimes a better shot at winning or securing a draw, and prevents a Day 1 no-lynch being a viable strategy for town.

That sounds like it's worth an experiment.

That's an interesting idea. I'd run it as an experiment.

I'd play it as an experiment.

The proper plural of child is children.

I'm calling a moratorium on the Gurgi EC8 and Weak MD setups. Both have been played recently and both suffered from game-warping hypocopping strategies, which appears to be inherent with putting Weak Doctors/Hiders/Weak Cops etc. in Open Setups.

My question to the community is: Is hypocopping a damaging mechanic when it's optimal play for towns to follow it? Such strategies tend to turn the game into a logic puzzle and makes being a powerrole kind of pointless. It also saps the interest in dying town powerroles - in a normal closed game, a Hider turning up dead at the start of Day 2 makes for interesting speculation on why it died, but in an open game, you merely check their last post the day before.

The setups could still very well be balanced, but I don't see the point of the game when it is entirely based on hypocopping strategies - I don't see this as much different than a follow-the-cop based setup.

In principle, I don't have a problem with hypo* strategies as long as they are not infalliable or almost infalliable.

Weak M.D. and Gurgi EC8 provide too few possibilities for scum to interfere with town's plans. JK9++ has the possibility of a hider but enough unknown variables to make a hypo* strategy beneficial but not (almost) game-breaking.

That's a fair assessment.