Mini 1558 - VisCon: Crossroads [Game Over]

[hiplop]

havingfitz please look at me as town again

I will stop being so useless soon! I really need to re-read asap. But ugh last phase was killing me

[Desperado]

Vote: havingfitz

@ Bork: It's still very much in play, trust me.

[FakeGod]

VoteCount 2.1

SXTLHGaiden [1] - notscience
Who [2] - Kalimar, Brian Skies
havingfitz [1] - Desperado

Not Voting [7]

- SXTLHGaiden pieguyn Majiffy hiplop kirroha Bait Who

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch

.

Deadline is March 30, 2014, at 11:00 AM PST.
Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2014-03-30 13:00:00)

[Brian Skies]

Vote: havingfitz

[hiplop]

what? why?

[borkjerfkin]

Ok desp - I'm giving you a little bit of wiggle room. Start being town. I don't particularly have a good track record with meta but you're aloof as fuck this time around and that's just not the you I'm used to.

VOTE: Brian

I don't like Brian's read progressions yesterday or today:

This whole flowcharting thing isn't giving me any good vibes at all. Bork basically summed up my issues with it earlier, but you have people blindly following you despite disagreeing with you. Some don't even have reasoning. You haven't challenged any of the votes on your wagon (and only challenge those off of it) and now the people who have stated disagreement with you are now just sitting on your wagon so you can get the lynch that you want.

Obviously I agree with the sentiment behind this, but I can't get a good indication that he's really trying to do actually pursue any of the offenders here:

1) 118 - kind of half-heartedly endorses the koneilwa wagon, which doesn't really jibe with what he says here - if he thinks the wagon is on scum then he shouldn't have any problem with all the bussing he apparently thinks is likely. Additionally, his hiplop vote there is pre-hiplop jumping on konowa, so it's not like he's been really scumhunting through jiffy's supporters or jiffy himself.

2) Then you have this out of nowhere D2:

Pretty sure [Bait] requested replacement. Do you still think he could be town? Why?

Implied scumread in that quote, leading up to his vote on Bait's slot directly above me. In addition to his getting absolutely nothing out of his Who vote (why did that even happen? when did he stop being town to you? why did you wait like no time for that to develop?) He is voting like the one person besides myself that reacted in a negative way to all the people lemming-ing the fuck out of Majiffy yesterday, a reaction that he himself apparently shared. Additionally, any semblance of a scumread on Bait yesterday stemmed from agreeing with Desp's point that Bait was chainsawing his scumbuddy (who has since flipped town).

I'm not seeing why he would want to vote here considering all the things I have mentioned. I understand that reads change but they require impetus for those changes - what really happened between 118 and all the other shit I mentioned other than the person Bait was allegedly chainsawing become confirmed town?

[borkjerfkin]

Other things:
Don't really like hiplop slot - no visible trajectory on anything and a lot of shit that makes no sense 'herp derp I'ma sheep Majiffy onto my townread cause ?'
I like ns' tone in his response to me if nothing else. I can only tend to read him tonally.

Definitely don't like anyone's fitz votes considering all bait really did was try to derail the fuck out of a wagon on town.

[Majiffy]

Hi bork. Good to see you're town as all hell.

[borkjerfkin]

yeeeeeeeeeeeep

[borkjerfkin]

where is your head at today?

[Majiffy]

I dunno. Kill doesn't give us much. I think we'll have an easier time finding the scum(s?) off the wagon than on the wagon.

[borkjerfkin]

That seems pretty arbitrary. Why do you say that?

[Kalimar]

The die roll was somewhat of a metaphor for how I feel about this game. I had four suspects in mind but didn't really feel strongly about them.

Who vote was a fixed outcome, though. I didn't like that he critiqued the Konowa wagon but didn't propose an alternative - which he never explained - until the nth hour. The stance-giving on Bait/Desp/Neil near end day 1 felt arbitrary and I couldn't tell why he felt that way, and his play generally comes off as being opaque and generic. I'm biased here a little because of UPick, but generally unimpressed.

[Kalimar]

For the sake of etc:

Hiplop's almost hitting the 'too blatant to be scum' lines, but I know that's a fallacious line of reasoning. I didn't like that he plied RVS reasoning into his seemingly serious pie vote, that he didn't just sheep Majiffy from the offset if that's what he was going to do, and the survivalistic 324 pings. He's also been posting more 'elsewhere'.

I think it's going to be very likely to find scum in the Who/hiplop pair. They may not be together just because of the similarity of the read degradation on Konowa-slot, though (dispersion heuristic).

Gaiden's ISO is a barren wasteland and I don't really like the unvotes without revotes. The repartee with GiF felt a little reactive and odd too. This is fairly generic stuff, granted; I'll admit it's more that I'd like to see useless die than really believing in him being scum here (though he could be; he's at least above statistical chance).

And, pie has residual suspicion from day 1. I want to observe him for a while, though that's hard when he doesn't post.

[Majiffy]

That seems pretty arbitrary. Why do you say that?

RVS-Deadline-D1 wagon? There is literally nowhere to even begin VCA.

Reasons people stayed away from the wagon, however...

I think it's going to be very likely to find scum in the Who/hiplop pair. They may not be together just because of the similarity of the read degradation on Konowa-slot, though (dispersion heuristic).

I'm kind of in agreeance with this. I'm inclined to start with Who but we'll see.

[Brian Skies]

what? why?

I thought it would be worth more to explore the Day 1 Desp-Bait OMGUS over a [now predetermined] dice-roll. I do find your sudden interest in the Bait wagon intriguing.

Obviously I agree with the sentiment behind this, but I can't get a good indication that he's really trying to do actually pursue any of the offenders here:

1) 118 - kind of half-heartedly endorses the koneilwa wagon, which doesn't really jibe with what he says here - if he thinks the wagon is on scum then he shouldn't have any problem with all the bussing he apparently thinks is likely. Additionally, his hiplop vote there is pre-hiplop jumping on konowa, so it's not like he's been really scumhunting through jiffy's supporters or jiffy himself.

I'm pretty sure I was already voting one of the offenders before making the above quote. So I'm not seeing the issue here.

And taking a look at the people who sheeped him, I was interested to see what Majiffy thought about them. I mean, you had what? Two people sheeping for the sake of sheeping (notty, Gaiden), two people who were townreading Konowa but were voting him anyways (Giffy, Hiplop), and Desp who actually made some semblance of a scum-read before joining the wagon. I decided to cut through the bullshit and take a look at the root of the wagon instead. Flow-charting seems to be Majiffy's thing so I wanted to see what he thought about all of it.

In addition to his getting absolutely nothing out of his Who vote (why did that even happen? when did he stop being town to you? why did you wait like no time for that to develop?)

I had a small townread on Who based on something he said that resonated with me. The read deteriorated towards the end of Day 1 and I wanted to see more from him. As for why I switched my vote, I was just more interested in the Bait wagon.

Definitely don't like anyone's fitz votes considering all bait really did was try to derail the fuck out of a wagon on town.

Is this really the only reason you think people are considering Bait-scum?

[Brian Skies]

if he thinks the wagon is on scum then he shouldn't have any problem with all the bussing he apparently thinks is likely

Also, when did I ever mention anything about bussing?

[borkjerfkin]

Also, when did I ever mention anything about bussing?

It's my attempt to extrapolate how you feel about both the neil wagon and the people on it - basically when you say:

This whole flowcharting thing isn't giving me any good vibes at all.

I can't tell that this is actually making you feel worse about the neil wagon (the last thing you really say about it is that 'you opposed it until [something he said] happened (118)') because you don't really take any stance about it here so I'm using the last stance you did give. I'd have expected 236 to contain something about being worried that neil was flipping town if you were really that concerned that people were sheeping Majiffy with no reasoning (because if you thought this was a wagon on scum and people were bussing, this should be exciting, not worrying).

re: getting to the root of the flowcharting - how do you feel about Majiffy so far considering his answer to you and his posts today?

Is this really the only reason you think people are considering Bait-scum?

Considering that I haven't seen any alternate reason, I am again default to reasoning I

have

seen. Feel free to correct me instead of just implying I'm wrong and not elaborating.

[Desperado]

"All he did d1 was try to unjustifiably derail a lynch on a townie" sounds like a mighty fine reason to suspect someone as scum to me.

[borkjerfkin]

unjustifiably

go on...

[Desperado]

Did anyone give a reason why konowa/neil was town?

[borkjerfkin]

This is an incredibly scummy wagon.

I'd rather no-lynch over hammering this.

While I disagree emphatically with the no lynch part, he's inferring that neil is probably town because the wagon on him looks awful.

This isn't an unreasonable position.

[Desperado]

With no flips? Hell yes it is.

[borkjerfkin]

I don't agree. If I'm scumreading tons of people on a wagon, I am (generally) going to be disinclined to vote on it.

[Desperado]

But he was only scumreading two of us