The Manor: Chzo Mafia (Game Over!)

[Stephoscope]

ZazieR at one time was one of our most prolific posters, and yet she hasn't posted since last month. We need to figure out whether she was muted by the doll.

Devestation, this is your final chance: is there anything more about your "Not shifting" comment that you'd like to share?

[populartajo]

Stheph, why exactly arent you claiming your result?

[Devestation]

he has claimed his result.

There is nothing to say, Steph.

[populartajo]

What result? I dont think I find any in my reread. Correct me if Im wrong.

[populartajo]

Also, why were you trying to break Steph code?

[Devestation]

Because I really really really really want that result, so I have more to make my decision off of D:

[Amished]

Hey, Dev:

What do you have against me?

[Percy]

We need to figure out whether she was muted by the doll.

She flakes. All the time. I wouldn't necessarily put it on the doll, given that she doesn't have it any more.

[Devestation]

Hey, Amished:
Post 3973

[Amished]

Hey, Dev:
You can't believe I extended hohum/elmo's life N1, and got Steph (who you obviously believe) to endgame through my protections?

[Devestation]

Well, if YOU believed it, you would already be voting Percy as the last logical move.

[Stephoscope]

Stheph, why exactly arent you claiming your result?

Because I already had one scum, and rather than blurt out my delight, I wanted to try and nail down another one.

I believe Devestation is scum...I realize he was cleared by Naomi, but it could be that his role makes him flip innocent, or someone else protected him from investigation. I believe he has something to do with the "reality shifts" that both Amished and Pyromaniac mentioned (I really wish we could have gotten more comparison/clarification from the two of them before Pyro's death...I had tried to make that happen). There is no other explanation for his "Not shifting" comment right before nightfall--I think he was giving someone else a heads-up. It's also interesting that Pyro flipped town despite having the Lenkmann role...which clearly becomes a bad guy in the Chzo story. So I think alignments maybe can vary depending on these "shifts", and so it's also possible that Devestation is a good guy turned bad.

Since Amished probably knows the most about the shifting stuff, I am interested to hear what he thinks before making up my mind once and for all about whether Devestation is scum. And should he agree that Devestation is scum, I want to know what he thinks about who should be lynched between Devestation and Percy, who is the Prince.

My hashed message at the beginning of today was:

Percy is The Prince, and is Evil aligned. You're very, very welcome!

Percy has almost definitely been controlling the night kill...but I am going to wait to hear from Amished before casting my lynch vote, as Devestation (if my theory is correct) probably takes over the kill if Percy is lynched, and I'm quite concerned about potential effects of this shifting stuff at endgame.

[Amished]

The shift in the video game made it so that the whole world was more dangerous. The welder would show up in a room if you waited too long. As the idol is gone (thrown out the window or whatever happened to it) I wouldn't expect him to come back. Clearly if we're "in" the story timeline, the doll will make it to like 400 years in the future or whenever, but it doesn't show up in any game *but* the manor and the space one (where it's destroyed).

I don't think anything really *caused* shifting in the game, other than the state of Trilby's mind. Gah, it's been too long. I believe there was nobody other than Trilby in any of the shifts, though the living people's (in the normal world who were killed) dead bodies showed up in the shift.

I still have some power if the reality does shift and I prevent it. I still have the same powers as I do now if I allow it to just take place, which at this point wouldn't be a terrible thing. Right now, though, I want to look back to see if anybody else made mention of shifting, if Dev only sometimes had the ability/it moves. I would've expected night communication, but I guess theme-wise, the prince isn't always around to be consulted.

Overall, I say that we get rid of the Prince. Getting rid of a major killing role is huge for us, and only makes us safer. Dev's actions today are highly suspect (trying to crack your code to see who it was, is the simplest and most logical conclusion) However, check to see if anybody made mention of a shift before deadline at any time to double check my own checking. This is something I don't want to miss if it does move around.

I shall vote for Percy later tonight after I look through everybody's posting that's still alive (other than Percy, of course).

[Amished]

I've not seen anybody alive (I also checked xtoxm since he was John Defoe, Zazier and LC since they've both had the doll) else say shifting, so I think it'd only be on him. Probably could *only* happen after the doll was gotten rid of completely.

Vote: Percy

[Percy]

Wow. Steph, what a fantastic game you've played.

He's lying, of course. I am, as I've always said, an Innocent. I'm the natural choice for a fake guilty result - in fact, I'm only one of two who haven't been cleared, and I'm the active one.

Now he tried as hard as he could to throw some weaksauce at Dev, but the "not shifting" argument was unconvincing. Why try throw crap at Dev? Because my lynch seals the deal for them, and they are saying "trust us, we'll protect you! Dev is obviously the only one left!" so either pop or ZazieR will vote to lynch me, and it's game over.

Not giving out the result until now was also never explained. I already went through my suspicions of Steph, and whilst I was ready to discard them before, turns out I was right.

Based on Amished's post above, with gems like

The shift in the video game made it so that the whole world was more dangerous.

...

I still have some power if the reality does shift and I prevent it. I still have the same powers as I do now if I allow it to just take place, which at this point wouldn't be a terrible thing.

The world becoming more dangerous wouldn't be a terrible thing?

Overall, I say that we get rid of the Prince. Getting rid of a major killing role is huge for us, and only makes us safer.

...which I find hilarious, because it's so poorly focussed - it's not saying "believe Steph", which should be argued, rather than obfuscated. It's saying "The Evil Prince is a character we should lynch, guys!", as if that needed stating. Also,

I shall vote for Percy later tonight after I look through everybody's posting that's still alive (other than Percy, of course).

More trust in Steph, and you're not even going to read my posts. Nice work buddy.

Also, I can't believe I didn't state this before, but a multi-targeting (at least three, at last count!), self-protecting doc in a game WITH ANOTHER DOC is beyond ridiculous.

I'm going to read through this game and try to get my defence ready. Don't lynch me until I've done it.

Preview edit: Oh, Amished has already voted for me. Pop, Dev, Zaz - give me 24 hours.

[Devestation]

I'm an innocent vanillager, and I haven't been told otherwise. I shall grant Percy the 24 hours, but only because I am worried about being wrong about Stepho.

[populartajo]

Busy times in my office. If things dont get sorted out here in the next tow days, Im sadly going to ask for a replacement. Hope not.

[Percy]

Going to quote an interesting back-and-forth from yesterday:

Percy's statement "As the latest result, this means one of two things: Either Stephoscope received the doll and is now on a scumteam with dramonic, or dramonic is innocent" ignores the obvious fact that dramonic could have picked up the doll, and would therefore be an anti-town Innocent (assuming that's what the doll does)

If you think this is a valid possibility, and a valid line of investigation, how do you explain your first post of the day?

dramonic is a good guy.

I take back everything I said about him.

WTF? All I can comment on is his role. I'm tempted to vote you right now.

What Steph wanted was me to list three possibilities:

1. dramonic is pro-town, as is Steph. Simple cop-clearing.
2. dramonic is anti-town, together with Steph. Simple scum play.
3. dramonic is anti-town because the doll changed his alignment, and Steph (who is good) knows nothing about his alignment because he gets an insane result when targeting the doll-holder. A great deal more complicated.

Now I am willing to seriously consider possibility three. What I found interesting is that Steph would criticise me for not considering this possibility, when it is quite clear that

he hadn't either

.

Summary:

Steph: "Hi, I'm the claimed cop with a good record, and I'm clearing a player, don't worry about him, ignore those things I said when I said he should die".
Percy: "Well, that means either Steph is telling the truth, in which case I'll take her advice and not worry about him; or she's lying, in which case dramonic is probably scum too".
Steph: "What about if I'm good and dramonic is actually scum? Why didn't you consider that?"
Percy: *is confused* "Well, you said he was a good guy."
Steph: "WTFFFFF?!!! I only said he didn't have a scum role, which may very well be independent of whether he's a good guy or not, because there might be doll weirdness! He might not be a good guy! You should have known that!"
Percy: *is getting really confused*

Whoa, lots of posts.

What stands out in my mind is a few things:

-Steph initially suspected Naomi and tried to get her lynched
-Steph then backed off, claimed cop, and confirmed Naomi's story
-After a little while, Steph voted to lynch Naomi
-Since then, Steph has cleared dramonic, Setael and Pablo.
-Steph did not clear Devestation (my mistake), he was cleared by Naomi.

I want to do some more reading and wait for her result today, but I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility that Steph has played a truly impressive game as fakeclaiming scum. Nowhere near sold on this theory, but it's what I'm working on at the moment.

This exchange got me wondering.
I ended up putting Steph in the "solid town" column, essentially because I couldn't square his defense of an unNKable townie as scum. However, he voted to lynch someone he knew was town, and for information:

Setting aside the fact that I am 100% sure that I am Janine and Naomi is Trilby, I must point out that it's ridiculous to think there'd be no Trilby counterclaim, given that Naomi's roleclaim was so bad and that Amished can apparently protect, and it's ridiculous to think that there'd be a Chzo game without Trilby. Naomi is Trilby, and if we need to lynch her to avoid a Setael lynch then so be it, but it should really be clear that she is absolutely Trilby.

Oh well. She's Trilby, I tell ya, but this should allow us to be more productive and save having to get a replacement.

Unvote
Vote: Naomi

I can't see someone protown doing this. It makes perfect sense for scum, though.

Steph has yet to translate her hash on pop's investigation yesterday.

Why haven't you done this?

But wait, there's more.

Here is his reported hash:

c62a7dc2ea448ee6b41c9e5634cfe8e9

Here is what he claimed it was:

Percy is The Prince, and is Evil aligned. You're very, very welcome!

Here is that sentence in hash:

d9587989df01472c67645a59751b8e11

So, lies. How did you honestly think I wouldn't check?

Vote: Stephoscope

.

[Stephoscope]

Heh--you must have thought you hit the jackpot there, and that I somehow screwed up.

I put two spaces between sentences when I type. There must be a filter on this forum that eliminates multiple spaces. Put another space between the two sentences I hashed, then let everyone know how that turns out for you.

I explained my logic regarding the Naomi vote back then, and nothing has changed.

And why would I translate populartajo's hash for you? He's pro-town, and that's all someone like yourself needs to know. I'm doing exactly what I've said I would...why do you think I've bothered to encode my results?

For anyone unconvinced, please note Percy's (and Devestation's) making a huge deal out of the Innocent PM he clearly has access to somehow, as well as the very minor omission that I guess Lamont (flipped Innocent) didn't pick up on, and note the obsession with knowing my results, even though I've been consistently clear and pro-town about when/why I will and will not share them.

Unvote
Vote: Percy

[Devestation]

Because I already had one scum, and rather than blurt out my delight, I wanted to try and nail down another one.

Who is the other scum that you have investigated?

[Percy]

The problem with your theory, Steph, is that we have the following:

Amished - Multi-targetting, self-protecting doc.
Steph - Honest, sane cop.
Pyromaniac - doc.
Naomi - unNKable, one-shot cop.
populartajo - Perhaps just innocent, perhaps another town PR

against:

One SK, two scum.

Yes, the SK can jump around a bit, but there are far too many PRs in this game. This game is not meant to be easy for the good guys, but with these PRs I can't see how the town could fail to win. The setup is completely broken if you believe Steph and Amished.

Devestation was cleared by a confirmed innocent, yet Steph has spent a lot of time digging dirt on him. He's cleared populartajo. That leaves me and ZazieR, so why is Steph concentrating on Dev?

There is no LyLo with Amished around. He has three protections, so even if you guys mislynch me today, all Amished has to do is protect himself, Steph, and one other person. Even if he picks wrong, tomorrow is 2v2 and the game is a draw.

So please, everyone who isn't Amished or Steph, ask yourself this. What is more likely - that there would be two cops, one unNKable, two docs, one multi-targetting and self-protecting, and the scum were given the townie PM, or that Steph is lying scum, I'm innocent, and the remaining claimed PRs are actually the scumteam.

[Amished]

As I'm part of the remaining power roles, Trilby is basically only unNKable as they only had 1 investigation, and "Lenkmann" was evil in the games and a weak version of a doc (couldn't protect the same person on consecutive nights) I'd say it's not that bad. As such, your insinuations that Tajo is a PR is completely bogus.

Also, since I get weaker if an unknown condition occurs (the reality shift) gives any other scum probable more power. Also, the fact that the SK can move around to somebody already "cleared" by an investigation is rather hard as well, as it punishes lazy play which is all too easy with a doc/cop team.

[Stephoscope]

Because I already had one scum, and rather than blurt out my delight, I wanted to try and nail down another one.

Who is the other scum that you have investigated?

Say what? I investigated Percy, who is the Prince, but I wanted to talk over my suspicions about you before revealing my information or casting my vote. How was this not clear?

[Stephoscope]

Devestation was cleared by a confirmed innocent, yet Steph has spent a lot of time digging dirt on him. He's cleared populartajo. That leaves me and ZazieR, so why is Steph concentrating on Dev?

I've TOLD everyone why I suspect Devestation. You are really grasping at straws. There was no need for me to "concentrate" on you when I have known since daybreak exactly who you are.

So please, everyone who isn't Amished or Steph, ask yourself this. What is more likely - that there would be two cops, one unNKable, two docs, one multi-targetting and self-protecting, and the scum were given the townie PM, or that Steph is lying scum, I'm innocent, and the remaining claimed PRs are actually the scumteam.

Unfortunately for you, I've already pretty much proven my ability and my town-ness. Good job lasting as long as you did.

[Devestation]

but I wanted to talk over my suspicions about you before revealing my information

draw your own conclusions, children >_>