Mafiascum.net

↑ Yates wrote:I'm just asking for YOUR reads on these guys as quid pro quo.

That's what I thought but the phrasing confused me just enough to want to confirm directly.

Yates wrote:@ Korlash - Do an ISO on him. He had 10 posts before his vote on me and the first 2 were RVS stuff. Then he found the "MoI Slip" re unfunny comedians. Then he backtracked after my post when a few people agreed with my post. 3 posts talking about the scumminess of MoI and him possibly being a bomb. Then he buddies up to you saying he's funnier. The first time he even mentions my slot is when he quotes MoI for calling me out on the L-1 business before I had a chance to respond. He says he had me Town before that in his post 5 minutes later. His next post is 10 hours later, after all of our back and forth, and votes me stating, "I can see why Yates thinks it's a slip but honestly it's too blatant to be an actual slip, more likely a weird grammatical error." That does not strike me as an actual reason for a vote. The only thing that had changed was you decided to crusade for MoI, Hence the sheep image.

And I get your logic in putting it together, but it's all just an assumption on your end . Short of the one buddy post (which me and V2V are buddies so it means nothing, buddy meaning 'friend' in this instance not partners >.>) there is nothing linking his vote to me at all. calling it a sheep vote just seems like a mischaracterization on your part. I never laid out a case on you that V2V said he 'agreed with, I never voted you with V2V following suit, I never said you needed to be lynched with V2V echoing me, none of the tell-tale signs of sheeping exist. Using terminology just for the sake of doing it is bad play and leads to your 'attacks' being weakened and escaped easily.

A better way to put it would "he's jumping on someone currently under scrutiny by others with little to no reason himself.(seemingly to go against his recent read)" It may seem close to sheeping but it's far more specific to him and a hell of a lot harder to escape out of.

Yates wrote:You are also wrong. I did not present a case on VJ. Mini Librarian mentioned that he though VJ was scummy. You seem to be ignoring the ever important first two sentences in the post:

A case is a collection of points gathered on someone in an attempt to suggest his possible alignment. (usually to suggest a scum alignment.) You presented two points against V2V and implied you 'didn't like him', that is a case regardless of it you intended it to be or not.

Presenting a case does not mean you HAVE to vote them or suggest they be lynched, nor does it even imply you HAVE to think they are scum. It is often used in that way, but it does not have to be. It is merely a gathering of points against a specific player, usually aimed at suspicious activity.

Yates wrote:So why are you misrepping my statements?

I have done no such thing. why are you so defensive about me labeling your case on V2V a 'case'?

Yates wrote:#376 - @Korlash, "You hold double standards, one for yourself and one for other players." - Fact.

Examples...

↑ Pizzadudes7 wrote:

↑ Fate wrote:pizza

I would say that this scum is here, but then you will just say "OH LOOK, HE ADMITTED IT!"

OH LOOK AT THIS SCUM

MoI writing him off as a VI? I that linked MoI as Pizza's scumbuddy, but MoI is known for having shit reads and taking opposite stances on people's alignment from me based on his asshat princible(tm).

↑ Korlash wrote:

Yates wrote:@ Korlash - Do an ISO on him. He had 10 posts before his vote on me and the first 2 were RVS stuff. Then he found the "MoI Slip" re unfunny comedians. Then he backtracked after my post when a few people agreed with my post. 3 posts talking about the scumminess of MoI and him possibly being a bomb. Then he buddies up to you saying he's funnier. The first time he even mentions my slot is when he quotes MoI for calling me out on the L-1 business before I had a chance to respond. He says he had me Town before that in his post 5 minutes later. His next post is 10 hours later, after all of our back and forth, and votes me stating, "I can see why Yates thinks it's a slip but honestly it's too blatant to be an actual slip, more likely a weird grammatical error." That does not strike me as an actual reason for a vote. The only thing that had changed was you decided to crusade for MoI, Hence the sheep image.

And I get your logic in putting it together, but it's all just an assumption on your end

with no supporting evidence

. Short of the one buddy post (which me and V2V are buddies so it means nothing, buddy meaning 'friend' in this instance not partners >.>) there is nothing linking his vote to me at all. calling it a sheep vote just seems like a mischaracterization on your part. I never laid out a case on you that V2V said he 'agreed with, I never voted you with V2V following suit, I never said you needed to be lynched with V2V echoing me, none of the tell-tale signs of sheeping exist. Using terminology just for the sake of doing it is bad play and leads to your 'attacks' being weakened and escaped easily.

A better way to put it would "he's jumping on someone currently under scrutiny by others with little to no reason himself.(seemingly to go against his recent read)" It may seem close to sheeping but it's far more specific to him and a hell of a lot harder to escape out of.

I believe it is called buzz-wording. If not, that's what I'm calling it from now on.

@ Yates: so your argument is that it's more likely that you say it as a slip instead of fabricating a fake one? That's just sad, because now it's a matter of interpretation. But the thing is, you read like a person with intellectual capacity, so I sincerely doubt that you honestly thought that was a slip.

: Why didn't you post something #374 immediately when asked, instead of waiting till more pressure was placed on you?

↑ pappums rat wrote:MoI has claimed Benmage is scummy for doing some of the same things that he has.

Examples of this please. A statement like this is just slander without evidence.

↑ pappums rat wrote:MoI misrepped me and said that I said one of them MUST be town, when that was simply not the case. I never "blasted" Korlash, I said his townread was gone and that his epic wall posts of mainly semantic arguments was the reason for that.

If you had read the thread you would have seen my utter lack of reasoning behind my suspicion of MoI.

I never said Korlash's posts became suspect, I said he is now null to me, meaning I had lost the initial townread I had on him.

So let me get this straight. You think Korlash is town at the beginning. Then somwhere past that you lose that town read on him. How does this happen if Korlash doesn't do something scummy to offset your townread on him?

--

This is the second time you've claimed someone has said something that it's not really apparent they are. (The first being MoI's bomb "claim.") Why do you feel the need to put words into people's mouths?

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↑ Pizzadudes7 wrote:

↑ Fate wrote:pizza

I would say that this scum is here, but then you will just say "OH LOOK, HE ADMITTED IT!"

Adding Pizza to the list of people I'm fine with dying. Play the damn game pizza. Start playing the victim and scumhunt.

He literally said he thought they were on DIFFERENT TEAMS if thats not speculating multi-ball idk what is. And if MoI wasn't softclaiming vengeful you have your head up your ass

Fate wrote:He literally said he thought they were on DIFFERENT TEAMS if thats not speculating multi-ball idk what is. And if MoI wasn't softclaiming vengeful you have your head up your ass

Wrong. He said "...if one flips town, the other will flip scum." He may have shortened it in his post 374, but that doesn't change his orriginal statement.

Multi-ball does mean multiple scum teams right? In this case, he was saying one is town and one is scum thus 'different teams'...

@Fate- no more Pizza for you. Spread yourself and talk about other players.

@Pizza- Is MoI scum?

↑ MagnaofIllusion wrote:

Pappums wrote:Damn, you are obsessed with pushing your horseshit "lining up lynches" point arent you? I didnt commit to jack shit. Why do you need me to say that pizza and you "fit well as partners" exactly? You two have not interacted enough to say something like that even if I wasnt going to wait for a flip before coming to a conclusion on whichever of you were not the one who got lynched.

You’ve completely avoided my questions – why if your stance is I wouldnt start talking about who your partners could be until after you were to flip scum. would you be entertaining other relational reads without flips. You could certainly say “Pizza doesn’t make any sense as MoI’s possible partner” based on what went on in thread (as I have discussed already).

Pappums wrote:I explained why his reaction was scummy and I never said he was a VI. If someone was a VI, that does not mean you should ignore it when they do scummy things.

Where did I ever say that VI’s can’t be scum or we should ignore their play?

Pappums wrote:ROFLMAO holy shit what a fucking god-awful LIE that was. RC was taking a TON OF SHIT because you were taking jabs at him and he replaced out BECAUSE HE COULDNT TAKE IT ANYMORE and because HE HAD A LARGE GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO WANTED TO LYNCH HIM LARGELY BASED ON HIS INTERACTONS WITH YOU. I was lynched almost immediately even though I did some decent scumhunting BASED OFF OF RC'S BEHAVIOR. TO SAY OTHERWISE IS AN OUTRIGHT LIE.

Here’s the link for those who want to observe for themselves.

For the record – the only vote you got right out of the gate after you replaced in was Empking’s. In fact it was Katsuki who got the first early wagon. It was only after you started posting that heat came your way. You made your own grave there.

Pappums wrote: I never said Fate and Benmage were easy targets, learn to read. I said you were trying to stir shit up between them LIKE YOU DID WITH RC.

1. Asking them about their reads / interactions with each other isn’t ‘stirring things up’. It’s scum-hunting. Should I scream mis-rep like you now?
2. How is my direct attack on ReaperCharlie in that game in any way similar to my play here? You are trying to say I am ‘stirring things up’ like I did there yet in that game I went head to head calling him scum. It’s not analogues at all and your attempts to make it so are scummy.

1. Yes, I certainly could have said that about pizza but I didnt. I said what I did about Yates and yourself based on your interactions. You havent really had any interactions with pizza, therefore no hint of a relational tell could be made in this regard. Yes, I said I wouldnt make decisions about scumbuddies until a flip, but that does not mean that I wont speculate in certain situations, especially when your interactions with Yates were as significant as they were.
2. You didnt, but you were ignoring pizza's scumminess and brushing it off with a ssimple "he's VI" statement.
3. Yeah, there wasnt an active large wagon on him at the very moment I entered, but he was many peoples' top scumread and were ready to lynch me for his actions (actions that you perpetuated). You are clearly trying to reinterperate the game in question for those in this game in a way that isnt factual.
4. Yeah, different methods but the way I see it you are still trying to come up with the same results.

↑ MagnaofIllusion wrote:

↑ PeregrineV wrote:I did. I even included myself on the wagon to analyze.

No, you said "Hey, pretend this happens". That's not saying "I intend to hammer". If that was what you were going for I suggest in the future you be a bit more direct and clear.

LOL you are so full of shit. It is obvious that is what PV meant, dont try to pass it off like you didnt know what he was intending.

↑ The Mini-Librarian wrote:

@Pappums

: Why didn't you post something #374 immediately when asked, instead of waiting till more pressure was placed on you?

↑ pappums rat wrote:MoI has claimed Benmage is scummy for doing some of the same things that he has.

Examples of this please. A statement like this is just slander without evidence.

↑ pappums rat wrote:MoI misrepped me and said that I said one of them MUST be town, when that was simply not the case. I never "blasted" Korlash, I said his townread was gone and that his epic wall posts of mainly semantic arguments was the reason for that.

If you had read the thread you would have seen my utter lack of reasoning behind my suspicion of MoI.

I never said Korlash's posts became suspect, I said he is now null to me, meaning I had lost the initial townread I had on him.

So let me get this straight. You think Korlash is town at the beginning. Then somwhere past that you lose that town read on him. How does this happen if Korlash doesn't do something scummy to offset your townread on him?

1. I didnt post something like 374 immediately because
2. Slander? ROFLMAO. If you've been reading the game you would see that MoI has had the same sort of double standards about what is acceptable as Korlash has. Im not going to go dig through all these walls for you.
3. Someone doesnt need to do something inherently scummy for someone else to lose their townread of them.

Just to clarify regarding the "different teams" statement, I wasnt referring to multiball, I meant that one was likely scum and the other likely town.

@Mini-L- Can you give a brief opinion set on Korlash and MoI, please.

Guys, Yates is scummier than Pizza. Can we lynch him first? Promise we can kill pizza tomorrow.

i will probably not be finished rereading until later today or saturday, so expect more from me on sunday.

Behind, luckily no rugby this weekend, so will catch up soon

↑ vijay2vasandani wrote:I sincerely doubt that you honestly thought that was a slip.

VJ... I don't even know how to respond to this anymore. There are walls of text back that way [points to the left] that show you my thinking and it's practically broken down in a timeline. You still haven't provided an argument of your own as to why that wasn't a slip/self-incrimination/whatever else you want to call it.

And as to this:

↑ vijay2vasandani wrote:Guys, Yates is scummier than Pizza.

My biggest beef with you is that you *STILL* haven't presented a case on me. You can't just throw stuff like "x is scummy" around without providing a reason for it. Well, technically you but it isn't terribly useful or Town.

Try building a case on your two biggest scum suspects using your own voice and arguments.

Also, speaking of lining up lynches...

↑ vijay2vasandani wrote:Guys, Yates is scummier than Pizza. Can we lynch him first? Promise we can kill pizza tomorrow.

*sigh* case? My case is that you're fabricating a scumslip. I don't understand what else I can do. Sure you can defend yourself but I'm obviously not convinced. Like I said, it's a matter of who they believe.

↑ PeregrineV wrote:@Fate- no more Pizza for you. Spread yourself and talk about other players.

@Pizza- Is MoI scum?

If I had other scumreads, I'd tell you about it. I just have a bunch of null and potential scum, and then townreads. And I'm not going to broadcast how town someone is in every post

↑ vijay2vasandani wrote:Guys, Yates is scummier than Pizza. Can we lynch him first? Promise we can kill pizza tomorrow.

I'd lynch Yates

↑ pappums rat wrote:1. I didnt post something like 374 immediately because there is this thing called the game thread, and I have outlined why MoI is scum throughout it.
2. Slander? ROFLMAO. If you've been reading the game you would see that MoI has had the same sort of double standards about what is acceptable as Korlash has. Im not going to go dig through all these walls for you.
3. Someone doesnt need to do something inherently scummy for someone else to lose their townread of them.

1 & 2: I've tried to put my emotions in the background for the following message. It probably wasn't successful.

Do you actually think you are helping the game at all if you refuse to repeat yourself or give examples? This game revolves around discussion. You are actively stifling discussion when you give coy responses and refuse to answer questions like this. So don't tell me to go read the fucking thread OK? You don't even have to repeat yourself fully, hell post numbers will work. Especially that double standards thing, because I don't see that at all. Enlighten me, convince me. Just snarkily saying "lol, read" isn't helping at all.

3: Can you explain how this works? I'm just not following how this makes any sense.

--

↑ PeregrineV wrote:@Mini-L- Can you give a brief opinion set on Korlash and MoI, please.

Korlash - Nuller than null. Frustratingly so. Hopefully after some flips I can make some alignment decision on him.

MoI - I find the case on him very deficient and based on flimsy meta tells, so I'm leaning town on him right now. The only thing that gives me pause at all is that his wagon suddenly stalled at L-1 which does seem a little odd for a wagoned townie to me.

Hi.

Now that pleasantries are over with, I'm gonna "fuck shit up".

Cheers!

Librarian is town, Jester was already town

All right, lookin forward to some sanity in this thread

– Your ISOs might have to come this weekend or Monday. Let me see how the rest of my commitments go today before LA.

--

Yates wrote: Also, speaking of lining up lynches...

Let me ask you – do you see a function difference between the following scenarios as far as scumminess of ‘lining up lynches’?

A. If player X flips Town player Y should be lynched as they are likely not partners and vice-versa.
B. I think Player X is scummy but Player Y is scummier so let’s lynch Player Y first and Player X the next day.

--

Korlash wrote:Presenting a case does not mean you HAVE to vote them or suggest they be lynched, nor does it even imply you HAVE to think they are scum. It is often used in that way, but it does not have to be. It is merely a gathering of points against a specific player, usually aimed at suspicious activity.

Um, whut? Are you saying that actually building as case (as Town is the underlying premise here) doesn’t have to be in furtherance of finding scum? Aside from some really obtuse gambitting what purpose would you suggest as a viable and useful reason for building a case on someone you DON’T think is scum?

--

Fate wrote: MoI writing him off as a VI? I that linked MoI as Pizza's scumbuddy, but MoI is known for having shit reads and taking opposite stances on people's alignment from me based on his asshat princible(tm).

Let’s analyze this statement –

1. Fate are you suggesting Pizza ISN’T a VI? I’d like you to actually address that then I will address your “MoI is just shitty and taking opposite stances as a douche”.
2. Everyone please note – this statement clearly comes from the standpoint that Fate assumes I am Town. Scum don’t have ‘shitty reads’ … they push mislynches.
3. I’ll be quite curious at Benmage’s thougths on what is clearly inflammatory language that he states is a scum-motivated play.
4. So earlier I was being a jackass and demotivated you yet you feel free to do the same? If being a douche isn’t Pro-Town (your earlier inference from your posts) why would Town Fate do it now?

Korlash and Mini both point out properly how Fate’s Multiball comment was incorrect.

Fate at 416 wrote: If I had other scumreads, I'd tell you about it. I just have a bunch of null and potential scum, and then townreads. And I'm not going to broadcast how town someone is in every post

Fate at 421 wrote:Librarian is town, Jester was already town

All right, lookin forward to some sanity in this thread

Let’s see if anyone else sees what I see here in this Thor-style summary.

Fate – I have no other scum reads. I have Null and potential scum (um, what’s the difference between scum reads and potential scum reads from a Town perspective?) and Town and I’m not just giving out Town reads for no reason.

Fate (2 hours later) – Nevermind the person attacking me and that new person who just replaced in are both solid Town.

--

Pappums wrote: 1. Yes, I certainly could have said that about pizza but I didnt. I said what I did about Yates and yourself based on your interactions. You havent really had any interactions with pizza, therefore no hint of a relational tell could be made in this regard. Yes, I said I wouldnt make decisions about scumbuddies until a flip, but that does not mean that I wont speculate in certain situations, especially when your interactions with Yates were as significant as they were.

Yes, but your reaction originally based on this statement rings false. You could have said “I don’t see enough possible connections to make that determination currently”. But your reaction was very much overblown “I don’t take your bait I never make scum-buddy determiniations before flips, OMG you are scum misrepping and stuff”. And then you find reason to do so with Yates (in saying we aren’t buddies).

Pappums wrote:2. You didnt, but you were ignoring pizza's scumminess and brushing it off with a ssimple "he's VI" statement.

As I asked Fate – do you disagree he is a VI? I will fully explain my position after you both answer.

Pappums wrote:3. Yeah, there wasnt an active large wagon on him at the very moment I entered, but he was many peoples' top scumread and were ready to lynch me for his actions (actions that you perpetuated). You are clearly trying to reinterperate the game in question for those in this game in a way that isnt factual.

Actually no, I think you are doing that. I’ve included the link so everyone can conclude for themselves. Suffice it to say that I don’t agree with your premise.

Pappums wrote:4. Yeah, different methods but the way I see it you are still trying to come up with the same results.

So in other words you are forced to concede you were making bad analogies but are going to just stick with your conclusion ‘because’. Quite scummy.

Pappums wrote:LOL you are so full of shit. It is obvious that is what PV meant, dont try to pass it off like you didnt know what he was intending.

Look – more NO U rhetoric. No, I am not full of shit and your constant assertion without being able to show otherwise is scummy.

Pappums wrote:2. Slander? ROFLMAO. If you've been reading the game you would see that MoI has had the same sort of double standards about what is acceptable as Korlash has. Im not going to go dig through all these walls for you.

Just like with Benmage – making blank assertions without providing back-up and further sticking to positions when your original premise is refuted isn’t a Town thought process.

Rat 3 - MOI,Korlash,Mini-Librarian
Pizza 3 - Shotgun, Fate,pappums rat
MOI 2 - Benmage, ,Yates
Mini-Librarian 1 - Zeek
Yates 1 - vijay2vansandani,
Korlash 1 - PereV




MattP
Pizza

(expired on 2012-05-15 10:21:52)

till Day 1 Deadline

60 posts in. Hard to believe that anything will convince me that MoI is not scum by this point, but I'm shaking with anticipation to read the last 360 posts to see if I'm disproven.