Mini 2097 - Make Me Regret This Game Over

[Menalque]

What do you think I was doing wrong in terms of thinking to arrive at scum!jjh? (@mastina but also @jjh)

Like I know I was wrong but I don’t necessarily see how I could have avoided SRing him there after the kori lynch and the initial aggression towards my slot

[Menalque]

To what extent was that manipulated by Eth0s?

I can't believe that actually just happened

Clearly no one in this game gives a shit about what seems like really sound logic to me

have a fun catch up lol. town just goofed on an unprecedented level.

....moderately

[Menalque]

I saw all of those prior to reading your push or the kori self-hammer

[Menalque]

Also who successfully protected against the final scumkill?

That actually didn't happen but schadd only posted the relevant kill so lol
Yeah schadd was a help but I need to leave better instructions for my backup mod next time

Who died?

[Menalque]

Thanks mastina + jjh for the feedback

I think maybe part of the problem is that I’m much more aggressive as scum in general, especially early. So I guess I was ascribing my own style to jjh rather than thinking about this properly from his perspective as a player who is different from me.

I was in another scumgame that’s now finished at the same time as this one where that’s exactly the strategy I went for (although I didn’t manage to get the lynch through, so I wonder if that was making me feel more like jjh’s confidence was scum. Like I couldn’t imagine town actually being that sure because I never am, and I try not to over exaggerate the confidence in my reads — as both alignments, but more so as town obviously, because then the reads are real

Will also bear in mind your points about general play and site meta, mastina. I think sometimes I struggle to identify if something really is good logic or not tho, and that makes doing that sort of analysis more difficult for me. I guess another thing is to keep trying to get better at identifying good vs bad logic then.

[Menalque]

In hindsight the fact that his power was super fuckin similar to mine should have been an alarm bell
We claimed in our pt and although he said disloyal jailkeeper I was actually thinking in my head all game that it was roleblocker
And it never occurred to me “hmm, two roleblockers for town is kinda weird actually”

I don't know why Gamma didn't just call ethos's role an Alien because combined roleblocker/rolestopper is an existing role, Alien, which has been around onsite since before I joined (it predates 2008), and which has been Normalized as a whitelisted role.

Calling it combined makes it fit in with all those modifiers

I could see it plausibly powering up to separate roleblocking and rolestopping

Also I hate how it is called that
Like how does roleblock + rolestop = "IT WAS ALIENS"

[Menalque]

Menalque, do you think you'd have suspected Eth0s if I'd died and Chemist had claimed to have doctored me

I think so, just from you town flipping and knowing that eth0s was some form of roleblocker

[Menalque]

I guess he would claim he targeted chem bc chem was conf!town and he thought chem would be the NK bc of that?

[Menalque]

And he thought mastina would be on you?

[Menalque]

I think maybe he thought he could ride out one more day with me before killing me

[Menalque]

I mean my first thought when he flipped but no one else did was “huh, guess mastina or chem doc’d me then”

[Menalque]

I thought D4 was massclaim

[Menalque]

Wait didn't you say he claimed disloyal as well lmao

P sure yeah

[Menalque]

I'm a town disloyal jailkeeper. I submitted 3 items. Keys, badge, and a wanted poster. It was implied in my role PM that my jailkeeping abilities might block all actions against my target, not just kills.

[Menalque]

nope, I'm just that bad with roles that I genuinely didn't know. I was wondering if it was you vaguely by last night (that's partly why I role blocked you for tomorrow) but I really wasn't sure

[Menalque]

if we could do this over again I would have submitted vanilla ice cream, vanilla yogurt, and vanilla extract

[Menalque]

Yeah, I think this game is more evidence that bussing isn’t necessarily effective unless you’re hard and early, and even then you have to explain not being the NK after that. I thought you played a good scumgame, but tbh I think you prob should have made different NKs. I don’t think the people you focussed on eliminating were doing a lot, and I think that made it easier to eliminate your partners. Killing me/jjh early would prob have been better I think, as it would have let you control the momentum and direction of the game more.

[Menalque]

Yeah, I think this game is more evidence that bussing isn’t necessarily effective unless you’re hard and early, and even then you have to explain not being the NK after that. I thought you played a good scumgame, but tbh I think you prob should have made different NKs. I don’t think the people you focussed on eliminating were doing a lot, and I think that made it easier to eliminate your partners. Killing me/jjh early would prob have been better I think, as it would have let you control the momentum and direction of the game more.

I didnt have any pings on roles N1 but I felt like jjh and son would be menaces to deal with throughout the game. We were hoping to get info on jjh that night and I thought he was possibly mislynchable so I didnt wanna kill him.

I knew you were TRing me so I wanted to keep you around.

Momo/chemist was nonexistent

TD hadnt done much at that point

Mastina looked kind of bad from her catch up I think

Adorable was pretty much null to all

Elbirn also felt mislynchable

Suji/EP also felt quite mislynchable

Night 2 I still think we had no info on roles and TD started getting to read by all with his townspewing, plus I knew he would want to lynch TL so I advocated for that one


This isnt me arguing that we made the right kills, rather looking for advice on what would've been better

I would always argue to NK to increase scum control of gamestate, I think, and I think you would have benefitted from having a long term plan on who you wanted to bring to lylo with you and who you were gonna try to mislynch there.

Jjh and I were two of the most active players I think, in terms of moving the game around, and even if we were conflicting at times that weakened your hold on things. Mastina would have been a solid NK later in the game, especially if she’d become more active, or you could have targeted her via elbirn.

I would have liked either me or jjh N1, and the other N2. After talking with me in the pt, I think you probably should have nk’d jjh then hard pushed EP instead of letting the elements lynch happen D2 even with you getting credit for the bus. Then kill me N2 which frees you up to claim whatever you like if needed.

At that point you’d have a game of: you, ele, TL, TD, SoaS, adorable, mastina, chem, Elbirn

You might have needed to 1v1 mastina there if she’d become active, but I think that would have been a pretty promising gamestate. If you managed to mislynch let’s say elbirn there, you could kill mastina and then push either SoaS or adorable for the win.

[Menalque]

(how long should I wait to officially talk about my next planned modded game)

Talk about it whenever but don't run anything until you actually have time to run a game from start to finish

I've been talking about running Kenshi Mafia for like 8 months now and it's happening some time in 2020, but that's not the next game I'm running (I actually just inned to mod a skyrim mod upick) because the large queue is saturated and also I need to be in the right place to run a large mechanical game

What size is the Skyrim upick?

[Menalque]

I do regret busing elements. To be fair I thought he was going to claim a guilty on jjh and then I was gonna change votes but he didnt do that

I think by day 3 I really didnt have much choice but to bus TL given the way I played but if I could've avoided it I'd like to hear some advice on that too

I think you should have got him to stfu via the PT then kept pushing jjh. I prob would have gone there and you might have had the votes. If you’d killed me after you might have been okay.

[Menalque]

Oof, 13p and a Skyrim theme

PRE IN ME UP BABY

[Menalque]

I think you’re maybe a little too worried about seeming town as scum Eth0s

Perhaps consider that town are always in positions of doubt and uncertainty, so you can always just bullshit along the lines of, for example re: TL “I honestly believed he was mislynch bait and scum was trying to set him up”