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NY 164: Maniacal Street Mafia (Anticlimatically finished.)

https://forum.mafiascum-staging.net/viewtopic.php?t=28253

Page 165 of 266

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:31 am
by Bacde
Yeah Seanald doesn't make sense as blue unless the whole scumteam is blue, just because Nacho is the last blue

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:33 am
by PeregrineV
In post 4096, ffullisade wrote:Molllie and I have a few pages to catch up on.

We'll think about the case desperado built on Seanald.

- f
Alternately, if your reading indicates Seanald is town, then you should mention that.
Or, if you find an independent reason why Seanald is scummy, then you could mention that and vote him.
Or, if you find holes or weaknesses in Desparado's case you can point those out.

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:37 am
by CrashTextDummie
The Seanald wagon seems like somewhat of a "least common denominator" type of thing to me. The most appealing aspect of it is that his neighbor is on board, but there are certainly better lynch candidates in my view.

-----------------

Cephrir's argument for keeping ThAdmiral alive is terrible. He's giving him a pass for not giving a shit, when such an attitude is strictly alignment neutral. It's bad play if he's town (in that he makes no effort to help his faction), but can work as a strategy if he's scum, as evidenced by Cephrir's argument. And then on the same page, he offers up this insight into Seanald's play:
Cephrir wrote:I think that could be something scum might do to look town (unafraid of looking anti-town) but I have trouble imagining town caring little enough to vote for such a dumb reason when they are supposedly actually suspicious of someone else. Plus, why does Seanald care if someone is annoying when he barely seems to be reading the thread?
So ThAd can't be SK because he's unafraid of looking anti-town and not giving a shit, but Seanald can be scum because he's doing it to look town and would be giving a shit if he was town. He's essentially making the same argument for both players, but reaching completely opposite conclusion.

Meanwhile, Cephrir hasn't said a peep about the fact that ThAd is planning to shoot one of his strong town-reads. If he was town, I would expect him to at least acknowledge this in his rampant white-knighting of ThAd.


----------------

Nero Cain's stance on ThAd is just as bad. He flat out stated that he thought ThAd was scum, but that he should be kept around "because he could be useful". From a town-perspective, I can't follow this reasoning at all; if you think someone is scum, you lynch them. An additional killing role has just as much or even more of a potential to further devastate the town than it has to be "useful", and if you actually think the player in question is scum there's no reason to believe that their actions are going to be in town's favor.

Nero-scum
knows
if ThAd is going to be useful to him based on the people he expressed a willingness to shoot. It's exactly the kind of stance scum would want to take if they're not aligned with the people in the crosshair. Keeping ThAd lynchable ("I think he is scum") while letting him do your dirty work. Unlike every other person who's waffled on ThAd, he doesn't want to keep him alive so he can prove his claim or because he actually believes the claim, but simply so he can be "useful".

----------------

Those two (in addition to ThAd) should be our top priorities for a lynch.

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:04 am
by mastin2
Image
Seanald is at L-2!


Ninety-Third Votecount
:
(Twenty-Sixth Votecount of Day Three,
AKA, the "Massprod = mass-activity" votecount.
)


Seanald - 8 (Desperado, PeregrineV, ArcAngel9, Bubazak, Cephrir, ThAdmiral, Slandaar, penguin_alien)

Nachomamma8 - 2 (Nero Cain, Bacde)

Amethyst Kitty - 2 (Kublai Khan, ffullisade)
Nero Cain - 2 (Nachomamma8, CrashTextDummie)
ThAdmiral - 1 (Human Destroyer)
Bacde - 1 (Rena)
Kublai Khan - 1 (Amethyst Kitty)

Not Voting - 1 (Seanald)

With
18
alive, it's
10
to lynch.

Day Three's deadline is Friday, July 5th, @ 12:30 PM PST, which is in (expired on 2013-07-05 12:30:00).

Bulbazak is V/LA over weekends indefinitely.
mastin2, the moderator, is V/LA for...a while.


Spoiler: Changes from last votecount
Amethyst Kitty - 2 (Kublai Khan,
Cephrir
, ffullisade)
Nachomamma8 - 2 (Nero Cain, Bacde,
ThAdmiral
)
Nero Cain - 2 (Nachomamma8,
Bulbazak
, CrashTextDummie)
Seanald - 8 (Desperado, PeregrineV, ArcAngel9,
Bulbazak
,
Cephrir
,
ThAdmiral
,
Slandaar
,
penguin_alien
)
ThAdmiral - 1 (Human Destroyer,
Slandaar
)
PeregrineV - 0 (
penguin_alien
)
Bacde - 1 (Rena)
Kublai Khan - 1 (Amethyst Kitty)

Not Voting - 1 (Seanald)
Last votecount was page 164, post 4078.

Spoiler: Player Votecount History D3
CrashTextDummie: ThAdmiral->Nero Cain
Cephrir: Rena->ThAdmiral->penguin_alien->Amethyst Kitty->Seanald
Nachomamma8: ThAdmiral->Nero Cain->PeregrineV->Slandaar->Amethyst Kitty->ThAdmiral->Nero Cain
PeregrineV: Nachomamma8->Seanald
Nero Cain: Rena->Nachomamma8
Bacde: Nachomamma8->Rena->Nachomamma8->Unvote->ThAdmiral->Seanald->Nachomamma8
Bulbazak: ffullisade->Bacde->Amethyst Kitty->Unvote->Nero Cain->Seanald
Desperado: ThAdmiral->Rena->ThAdmiral->Nero Cain->Amethyst Kitty->ThAdmiral->Seanald
penguin_alien: ThAdmiral->Unvote->ThAdmiral->PeregrineV->Seanald
Slandaar: Amethyst Kitty->Rena->Desperado->ThAdmiral->Amethyst Kitty->PeregrineV->Seanald
Seanald: Rena->Cephrir->Amethyst Kitty->Unvote
ThAdmiral: Nachomamma8->Seanald
Rena: Bacde
Kublai Khan: Bacde->Amethyst Kitty
Amethyst Kitty: Seanald->Kublai Khan->Desperado->Kublai Khan
ffullisade: Rena->Unvote->Amethyst Kitty->Unvote->Amethyst Kitty
Human Destroyer: Rena->ThAdmiral
ArcAngel9: Cephrir->Amethyst Kitty->Desperado->Seanald


Spoiler: Votecount History D3
On Mon, Jun 6/10/13 @ 02:30p,
Bacde
votes
Nachomamma8
in post 3367.
On Mon, Jun 6/10/13 @ 02:40p,
Nachomamma8
votes
ThAdmiral
in post 3375.
On Mon, Jun 6/10/13 @ 05:23p,
Nero Cain
votes
Rena
in post 3385.
On Mon, Jun 6/10/13 @ 06:01p,
Nachomamma8
votes
Nero Cain
in post 3388.
On Mon, Jun 6/10/13 @ 11:14p,
Kublai Khan
votes
Bacde
in post 3397.
On Tue, Jun 6/11/13 @ 04:18a,
Slandaar
votes
Amethyst Kitty
in post 3406.
On Tue, Jun 6/11/13 @ 08:55a,
Desperado
votes
ThAdmiral
in post 3417.
On Tue, Jun 6/11/13 @ 12:32p,
Bubazak
votes
ffullisade
in post 3432.
On Tue, Jun 6/11/13 @ 03:04p,
ArcAngel9
votes
Cephrir
in post 3444.
On Tue, Jun 6/11/13 @ 06:46p,
ffullisade
votes
Rena
in post 3462.
On Tue, Jun 6/11/13 @ 09:08p,
Seanald
votes
Rena
in post 3467.
On Wed, Jun 6/12/13 @ 11:07a,
Desperado
votes
Rena
in post 3489.
On Wed, Jun 6/12/13 @ 12:41p,
Bacde
votes
Rena
in post 3522.
On Wed, Jun 6/12/13 @ 01:45p,
Slandaar
votes
Rena
in post 3528.
On Wed, Jun 6/12/13 @ 02:15p,
Bulbazak
unvotes
ffullisade
and votes
Bacde
in post 3537.
On Wed, Jun 6/12/13 @ 02:42p,
ffullisade
unvotes
Rena
in post 3543.
On Wed, Jun 6/12/13 @ 03:04p,
Bacde
unvotes
Rena
and votes
Nachomamma8
in post 3548.
On Wed, Jun 6/12/13 @ 03:48p,
Nachomamma8
votes
PeregrineV
in post 3584.
On Wed, Jun 6/12/13 @ 03:49p,
Nachomamma8
votes
Slandaar
in post 3585.
On Wed, Jun 6/12/13 @ 03:50p,
Nachomamma8
votes
Amethyst Kitty
in post 3586.
On Wed, Jun 6/12/13 @ 06:07p,
Nero Cain
votes
Nachomamma8
in post 3623.
On Thu, Jun 6/13/13 @ 03:49a,
Slandaar
votes
Desperado
in post 3625.
On Thu, Jun 6/13/13 @ 10:02a,
Human Destroyer
votes
Rena
in post 3633.
On Fri, Jun 6/14/13 @ 10:06a,
Bacde
unvotes
Nachomamma8
in post 3671.
On Fri, Jun 6/14/13 @ 11:16a,
Desperado
unvotes
Rena
and votes
ThAdmiral
in post 3672.
On Fri, Jun 6/14/13 @ 11:30a,
Bacde
votes
ThAdmiral
in post 3673.
On Fri, Jun 6/14/13 @ 12:08p,
Slandaar
votes
ThAdmiral
in post 3678.
On Sat, Jun 6/15/13 @ 06:50a,
Cephrir
votes
ThAdmiral
in post 3711.
On Sat, Jun 6/15/13 @ 10:31p,
Seanald
unvotes
Rena
and votes
Cephrir
in post 3730.
On Sat, Jun 6/15/13 @ 11:17p,
Bacde
votes
Seanald
in post 3731.
On Sat, Jun 6/15/13 @ 11:59p,
Amethyst Kitty
votes
Seanald
in post 3732.
On Sun, Jun 6/16/13 @ 00:18a,
Amethyst Kitty
votes
Kublai Khan
in post 3733.
On Sun, Jun 6/16/13 @ 01:07p,
penguin_alien
votes
ThAdmiral
in post 3740.
On Sun, Jun 6/16/13 @ 03:07p,
Human Destroyer
votes
ThAdmiral
in post 3745.
On Sun, Jun 6/16/13 @ 03:18p,
Nachomamma8
votes
ThAdmiral
in post 3746.
On Sun, Jun 6/16/13 @ 05:10p,
CrashTextDummie
votes
ThAdmiral
in post 3752.
On Sun, Jun 6/16/13 @ 11:05p,
Nachomamma8
unvotes
ThAdmiral
and votes
Nero Cain
in post 3759.
On Sun, Jun 6/16/13 @ 11:28p,
Desperado
unvotes
ThAdmiral
and votes
Nero Cain
in post 3760.
On Mon, Jun 6/17/13 @ 06:02a,
Kublai Khan
votes
Amethyst Kitty
in post 3769.
On Mon, Jun 6/17/13 @ 06:50a,
Slandaar
votes
Amethyst Kitty
in post 3771.
On Mon, Jun 6/17/13 @ 07:28a,
Cephrir
unvotes
ThAdmiral
and votes
penguin_alien
in post 3772.
On Mon, Jun 6/17/13 @ 09:29a,
Bacde
votes
Nachomamma8
in post 3774.
On Mon, Jun 6/17/13 @ 09:53a,
Desperado
unvotes
Nero Cain
and votes
Amethyst Kitty
in post 3777.
On Mon, Jun 6/17/13 @ 11:03a,
Amethyst Kitty
votes
Desperado
in post 3792.
On Mon, Jun 6/17/13 @ 01:54p,
Amethyst Kitty
votes
Kublai Khan
in post 3821.
On Mon, Jun 6/17/13 @ 01:59p,
Bulbazak
unvotes
Bacde
and votes
Amethyst Kitty
in post 3822.
On Tue, Jun 6/18/13 @ 08:37a,
penguin_alien
unvotes
ThAdmiral
in post 3857.
On Tue, Jun 6/18/13 @ 11:53a,
PeregrineV
votes
Nachomamma8
in post 3869.
On Tue, Jun 6/18/13 @ 02:24p,
Cephrir
votes
Amethyst Kitty
in post 3885.
On Tue, Jun 6/18/13 @ 06:39p,
ThAdmiral
votes
Nachomamma8
in post 3900.
On Wed, Jun 6/19/13 @ 11:04a,
ArcAngel9
votes
Amethyst Kitty
in post 3921.
On Wed, Jun 6/19/13 @ 12:05p,
Seanald
unvotes
Cephrir
and votes
Amethyst Kitty
in post 3950.
On Wed, Jun 6/19/13 @ 12:28p,
penguin_alien
votes
ThAdmiral
in post 3962.
On Wed, Jun 6/19/13 @ 12:42p,
ffullisade
unvotes
Amethyst Kitty
in post 3966.
On Wed, Jun 6/19/13 @ 12:50p,
Bulbazak
unvotes
Amethyst Kitty
in post 3967.
On Wed, Jun 6/19/13 @ 02:52p,
Bulbazak
votes
Nero Cain
in post 3977.
On Wed, Jun 6/19/13 @ 04:04p,
ffullisade
votes
Amethyst Kitty
in post 3979.
On Wed, Jun 6/19/13 @ 05:24p,
CrashTextDummie
unvotes
ThAdmiral
and votes
Nero Cain
in post 3989.
On Wed, Jun 6/19/13 @ 07:29p,
Desperado
unvotes
Amethyst Kitty
and votes
ThAdmiral
in post 3991.
On Thu, Jun 6/20/13 @ 03:29a,
ArcAngel9
unvotes
Amethyst Kitty
and votes
Desperado
in post 4015.
On Thu, Jun 6/20/13 @ 04:56a,
Slandaar
votes
PeregrineV
in post 4016.
On Thu, Jun 6/20/13 @ 10:05a,
penguin_alien
unvotes
ThAdmiral
and votes
PeregrineV
in post 4017.
On Thu, Jun 6/20/13 @ 11:22p,
Desperado
unvotes
ThAdmiral
and votes
Seanald
in post 4038.
On Fri, Jun 6/21/13 @ 01:23p,
PeregrineV
votes
Seanald
in post 4056.
On Fri, Jun 6/21/13 @ 02:14p,
Seanald
unvotes
Amethyst Kitty
in post 4059.
On Mon, Jun 6/24/13 @ 03:45a,
Slandaar
votes
ThAdmiral
in post 4066.
On Mon, Jun 6/24/13 @ 08:24a,
ArcAngel9
votes
Seanald
in post 4070.
On Mon, Jun 6/24/13 @ 01:41p,
Bulbazak
unvotes
Nero Cain
and votes
Seanald
in post 4081.
On Mon, Jun 6/24/13 @ 02:02p,
Cephrir
unvotes
Amethyst Kitty
and votes
Seanald
in post 4083.
On Tue, Jun 6/25/13 @ 02:38a,
ThAdmiral
votes
Seanald
in post 4087.
On Tue, Jun 6/25/13 @ 07:02a,
Slandaar
votes
Seanald
in post 4088.
On Tue, Jun 6/25/13 @ 11:52a,
penguin_alien
unvotes
PeregrineV
and votes
Seanald
in post 4091.

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:08 am
by Bulbazak
In post 4097, CrashTextDummie wrote: I'd like to be given a day or two to post my full thoughts on the game before we go to night.
I'm willing to do that.

Unvote

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:09 am
by Bacde
Once again, if Nero flips scum I will reconsider my case on nacho

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:20 am
by Desperado
Unvote: Seanald


I'm also trying to figure out what it means that Seanald got to L-2 without any of ffullisade, CTD, bacde, Nacho, or Khan joining the wagon.

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:24 am
by CrashTextDummie
In post 4105, Bacde wrote:Once again, if Nero flips scum I will reconsider my case on nacho
Only one way to find out.

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:52 am
by Cephrir
CTD wrote:Cephrir's argument for keeping ThAdmiral alive is terrible. He's giving him a pass for not giving a shit, when such an attitude is strictly alignment neutral. It's bad play if he's town (in that he makes no effort to help his faction), but can work as a strategy if he's scum, as evidenced by Cephrir's argument. And then on the same page, he offers up this insight into Seanald's play:
Cephrir wrote:I think that could be something scum might do to look town (unafraid of looking anti-town) but I have trouble imagining town caring little enough to vote for such a dumb reason when they are supposedly actually suspicious of someone else. Plus, why does Seanald care if someone is annoying when he barely seems to be reading the thread?
So ThAd can't be SK because he's unafraid of looking anti-town and not giving a shit, but Seanald can be scum because he's doing it to look town and would be giving a shit if he was town. He's essentially making the same argument for both players, but reaching completely opposite conclusion.
The primary difference is that, given ThAd's claim, I don't believe he can possibly be mafia. This attitude can work for mafia but it does not work for an SK, as said SK needs to be one of the last two players alive, and a player would never think he'd be able to do that while playing like Thad has been. If it helps, I would rule Seanald out as an SK as well for the same reasons.
CTD wrote:Meanwhile, Cephrir hasn't said a peep about the fact that ThAd is planning to shoot one of his strong town-reads. If he was town, I would expect him to at least acknowledge this in his rampant white-knighting of ThAd.
The first time he said it I didn't take it seriously, but yeah, I should address this now that it's clear he is serious.

@Thad
:Are you able to not shoot CTD tonight if that's the condition for you not being lynched today? If it comes down to it, running Thad up until he agrees to this would probably be worth it. Everyone else, don't end the day until this has been discussed.

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:21 pm
by Bulbazak
In post 4106, Desperado wrote:
Unvote: Seanald


I'm also trying to figure out what it means that Seanald got to L-2 without any of ffullisade, CTD, bacde, Nacho, or Khan joining the wagon.
I'm trying to figure out what you mean by this post.

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:29 pm
by Desperado
Those are my five strongest townreads and none of them contributed to Seanald's wagon. It's making me paranoid.

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:35 pm
by Bacde
Man I really like Desperado right now

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:41 pm
by Desperado
bacde, I asked you a while ago to show me you had support for a nacho lynch. I'm pretty sure you don't.

So can you join us here on day three? You seem to be stuck on day one.

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:46 pm
by Cephrir
To be fair, Desp, Bacde is too busy worrying about Nacho and KK & Nacho don't seem to have posted since you made your case.

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:55 pm
by Desperado
It's not that they didn't join the wagon. It's that the wagon got to 8 without 5 of my townreads.

Like I said I'm still trying to figure out what that means, if anything.

The other problem is there was basically no opposition. The case is good, but if I'm wrong about seanald then we get nothing from the lynch.

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:10 pm
by Amethyst Kitty
In post 4114, Desperado wrote:It's not that they didn't join the wagon. It's that the wagon got to 8 without 5 of my townreads.

Like I said I'm still trying to figure out what that means, if anything.

The other problem is there was basically no opposition. The case is good, but if I'm wrong about seanald then we get nothing from the lynch.
Wrong. You get
something
from the lynch, but it's
nor
what
you
desired. You still get information, but it's using that information to your advantage.

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:13 pm
by Desperado
What would we learn from a seanald town flip if no one opposes his lynch?

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:16 pm
by Amethyst Kitty
In post 4116, Desperado wrote:What would we learn from a seanald town flip if no one opposes his lynch?
Wagon analysis.

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:25 pm
by Desperado
My point is that wagon analysis would be unreliable if no one disagreed with the lynch.

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:36 pm
by Amethyst Kitty
In post 4118, Desperado wrote:My point is that wagon analysis would be unreliable if no one disagreed with the lynch.
;_; you're not getting my point. It's not unreliable if you analysis it against the other wagons.

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:04 pm
by ThAdmiral
In post 4108, Cephrir wrote:
@Thad
:Are you able to not shoot CTD tonight if that's the condition for you not being lynched today? If it comes down to it, running Thad up until he agrees to this would probably be worth it. Everyone else, don't end the day until this has been discussed.
What would stop me from saying I won't shoot him, and then shooting him anyway?

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:30 pm
by Bulbazak
In post 4120, ThAdmiral wrote:
In post 4108, Cephrir wrote:
@Thad
:Are you able to not shoot CTD tonight if that's the condition for you not being lynched today? If it comes down to it, running Thad up until he agrees to this would probably be worth it. Everyone else, don't end the day until this has been discussed.
What would stop me from saying I won't shoot him, and then shooting him anyway?
You are a claimed power role, which means you should be more subservient to the whims and needs of the town than if you had not claimed. If you refuse to act pro-town in this way, what good are you?

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:02 pm
by Cephrir
Do you want to win, or don't you, Thad? Are you actually going to be so egotistical that you're going with your own self-admittedly weak read when literally everyone disagrees with you? Should I lynch you just for asking that question?

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:34 pm
by Amethyst Kitty
I don't like how fast this seanald wagon has sprouted...

Bulb (at least I think it's you who asked) Scum would set up mis-lynches in multi-ball for the exact same reason they would set up mis-lynches in a non-multiball. they need the mislynches to win, even moreso here since the numbers are smaller and thus, would have more of a desire to do that kind of action.

what's the town motivation of setting up mislynches in the way Khan did because I can't really think of any.

post 4007 was odd and unneeded, don't know why he put it there. I don't even know if I can call it AtE, but it kinda looks like an attempt to do so?

~Mara

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:41 pm
by Amethyst Kitty
In post 4019, Bulbazak wrote:I'm unsure what you're saying. Is it that Nero is always anti-town, yet he always goes after the most anti-town player?
Kinda?

I mean, I don't really find him to be that anti-town but yes, he does tend to go after anti-town players thinking that they are scum as town. I see alot of town nero thought process and alot of town-Nero emotion, confusion, irritation ect... stuff that I experienced with him when I hydra'd with him.

if you really need me to, I can go post by post and pick out what it is exactly what I'm using as a base for my town read on him, but I'd prefer not to >.>

~Mara
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