Mafiascum.net

In post 4038, Desperado wrote:

Rena - 6 (Nero Cain, Cephrir, ffullisade, Seanald, Desperado, Bacde)

Amethyst Kitty - 7 (Kublai Khan, Slandaar, Desperado, Cephrir, ArcAngel9, Seanald, ffullisade)

Nachomamma8 - 4 (Nero Cain, Bacde, PeregrineV, ThAdmiral)

Nero Cain - 3 (Nachomamma8, Bulbazak, CTD)

These are the Rena, AK, and Nacho wagons at their respective apexes. Nero's wagon has only gotten as high as 3, so I'm not really sure what you meant by that, but anyway...

Seanald is the only one that really sticks out. He joins the Rena wagon with a naked vote (while supporting a cephrir wagon as well), and then votes AK with the bad policy lynch logic that basically no one liked.

Diving further into Seanald's ISO, the only time he mentions Ryu (while he was still alive) is to defend him here:

In post 872, Seanald wrote:

In post 870, Amethyst Kitty wrote:Redryu in junction with being passive to the bulb/hd-OM argument

not sure I understand this question, wasn't everyone being passive because their arguement was annoying as hell and everyone just told them to shut up? or has this arguement been going on since pages 20-29 cuz I havn't read the 20's yet.

It's also interesting to note that, after Ryu and Syryana's flip, Seanald made it a big show of not being concerned with Ryu's killer (because it was turning into a speculative circle jerk) here:

In post 2894, Seanald wrote:Ok So there has been a lot of talk about Red Ryu and shit, and who his partner/partners is which I get, and the talk has mostly just been a bunch of bacde and bulba tripping over each other's penises as they run around a bush.

Before turning around in the same post and sheeping Syryana's reads (note how he forgets that Ryu was already dead, as well--he really wants you to know that he isn't concerned with Ryu's death) here:

In post 2894, Seanald wrote:so just based off of Syr's reads, Desp,Red, and AA9(based on his comment) are switched into the scum pile. and baby spice and bacde join the null to scum pile.
theres more to read based off of syrs reads switching but I honestly can't keep it all in my head.

Honestly Seanald's whole treatment of the N1 deaths is just terribly scummy. Relevant posts are #2894, 2896, and 2899.

---------

The only time he interacts with Mac (thezmon's slot) is here:

In post 1045, Seanald wrote:I want to hear from Nacho before I follow the tomatos, and damn your tomatoes look good man.

also, never seen you town post this hard mala, its like not even a question.

@Mac, I'd like to know what you think of this game so far, you've been skirting this shit too long, pipe up sonny.

Which reads like scum asking a teammate to stop lurking. Mac was eventually replaced by thezmon, and the only time seanald interacted with HIM is here:

In post 1686, Seanald wrote:

In post 1685, thezmon221 wrote:In post 1674, Bacde wrote:I'm clawing for reasons to unvote you and vote for desperado you know

I'd so much prefer it for both of us to be town and I want to believe

but you aren't helping me here

you feel like scum to me love

WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH.

WOAH.

What happened to you being super convinced that Nacho was scum? Like, seemingly 100% convinced? But at its height you decide you want to go another way?

He's getting a chubby for nacho is what is happening, ive been seeing it in his eyes, he keeps looking across the room staring at Nacho's ass.

Until he becomes the 2nd to last vote when thezmon was clearly dead and gone.

--------

In the other direction...

Mac never mentions seanald, although I thought this post was interesting:

In post 915, Mac wrote:VOTE: Red Ryu

directing night actions? really?

especially in conjunction with AK's multiple posts of basically the same sentiment without a vote attached. Really starting to believe in one scum team + SK.

Thezmon only mentions Seanald (Ryu was listed as town in the same post) here:

In post 1410, thezmon221 wrote:NULL:
[Seanald, Kublai Khan, Desperado, Syryana, Nachomomma8, Cephrir]

and in his final reads post in #3247, in which Seanald is also null.

And Ryu only interacts with Seanald briefly, in this series of posts:

In post 865, Red Ryu wrote:Seanald for #1 vig pick.

In post 874, Red Ryu wrote:

In post 868, Seanald wrote:I'll vig your prick, and im still catching up. I don't have alot of time due to work so im a little over half way through right now.

Someone ask me something to get my dick juices in the game.

Hi, you posted now.

What reads you have, even simple or leaning ones?

In post 882, Red Ryu wrote:

In post 881, Seanald wrote:

In post 879, Seanald wrote:

In post 877, Amethyst Kitty wrote:Any gut feels of reads or anything.

I feel an overwhelming compulsion to follow the flowchart.....

and I have a town read on crash Text Dummie for the way he explained and handled the massclaim thing in the beginning pages there.

Explain.

I had the opposite.

Seanald never explained, and Ryu never followed up on it. Blatantly manufactured interaction.

-----------

Seanald has interactions with both blue scum that implicate him as a teammate. He was the 2nd to last vote on thezmon (without interacting with the process of thez's lynch whatsoever), and spent an inordinate amount of time trying to "decipher" the Syryana kill while downplaying the interest in examining Ryu's interactions.

And I was particularly disappointed with his treatment of Rena today because he told me in the quicktopic that he was considering her as a blue scum partner, and that he would ISO her because it was mostly gut, without following through on that at all.

In conclusion:

Unvote
Vote: Seanald

In post 3326, Nachomamma8 wrote:

In post 239, ArcAngel9 wrote:I am not liking the quick OS wagon. Its bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

as town, she white knights people who are having fast wagons on them, slows the game down because she knows what it's like to get attacked shittily

In post 682, ArcAngel9 wrote:Huh!!!
Can you all stop posting the fluff for heaven sake.. It’s not even 24 hours since I was here and it is 20 pages already.. Go slow people… Catching up is always a night mare!!!

Anywayz, Overall.. OS wagon is the most dumbest shit than ever. Every lurker who has no content/case to make is jumping in OS wagon, OS may not be the scum, If there is something odd about him that it is his claim. I will have to ISO some of his games to understand better but for now, I have no interest in joining his wagon.

Looks like Beast (majiffy) abandoned the Beauty (mollie) in the hydra. Mollie’s arguments make sense, she is town. Om the Destroyer is also town. And the never ending triangle arguments between OM, B&B & ephir looks very town vs town or there could a scum in between them but its early to see because it seems all of them has their own cases argue...

when she gets left behind, she yells at people for posting too much

In post 682, ArcAngel9 wrote:Both of you get a room!!!

teases people she likes

In post 1610, ArcAngel9 wrote:I am sorry about the inactivity, It’s just too many posts to catch up.. this is what happens when you fall behind in a large games. And having players like Jiffy, Nero, OS,& Bcade I couldn’t imagine any less than a massive amount post floods… Anywayz.. the catch up was really frustrating and such a butt hurt…..

this post is a REAL reads catchup post. AA can't do that as scum. not yet.

In post 1610, ArcAngel9 wrote:I am more likely not interested in lynching Nacho. At least not today please.. SO STOP THE NACHO WAGON. ITS BAD!!!

"he should be lynched when it's time to lynch him"
subtly paranoid, still doesn't want me gone before she knows wtf is going on

In post 1621, ArcAngel9 wrote:Then why are you voting Nacho, its not too late to build another wagon. Nacho case just doesn't make sense. I am not sure why nacho is not actually defending himself as much as I thought he would but this sounds little easy, like i said earlier, it would be a miracle if scum really had let town feed a scum on day 1 especially a player like Nacho.

she's picking up on me not defending myself as fiercely as I normally do
you think scumAA would pick up on this?
do you think scumAA EVEN as my buddy would pick up on this if I wasn't coaching her?

In post 1953, ArcAngel9 wrote:STILL NOT INTERESTED ON NACHO WAGON!!!!!!!!!!!

arc being loud and yelling to stop what she feels is probably a mislynch

In post 1956, ArcAngel9 wrote:You like me doing OMGUS right.. Here you get the 200%.... Die scum!!!

VOTE: Desperado

classic AA OMGUS

In post 1964, ArcAngel9 wrote:OMMFG, I can't stop laughing for this.
If you flip town Despo I ll jump from the top of mount everest!!!

strong promises for AAscum, no?

In post 2015, ArcAngel9 wrote:Firstly.. Try to be Civil. And Stop being a dick head!!!! this is a warning!!! Next time I may not be so nice!!!!

classic arctown

In post 2019, ArcAngel9 wrote:

In post 2009, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:

In post 2006, mastin2 wrote:I swear this was at 1990 less than five minutes ago. >_<

We're playing with hidden features!

Go back to your hydra, lazy bum!!!!

more of that teasing of people she likes

In post 3317, ArcAngel9 wrote:And who are you calling Horribad?? Get a life you punk!!! Huh!!

syryana knows why i like this one
her "huh!!" posts are usually hilariously and awesomely town
this one is no exception

In post 3329, Nachomamma8 wrote:tl;dr When Arc is town, she OMGUSes hard because she's used to scum attacking her for so long. She will also pick out people who have been easy targets, people who she feels like she can defend, and she will defend them from a position of authority (since she knows certain people will read her as town and she can hammer the hell out of them if they attack her). She's lighter as town because it's what she excels at, hence the occasional teasing with the people she interacts with. Her stronger, more aggressive posts are the ones she makes from that position of authority; she doesn't have it as scum and that's her strongest meta point.

In post 3989, CrashTextDummie wrote:

In post 3850, ThAdmiral wrote:I see that you are putting your hand up to die tonight. Excellent.

I suggest you start working on your defense now if you want to go down this path, cause you'd be making a better argument for your lynch tomorrow than any I could make myself.

-------------

Not feeling the AK lynch. Some people have called their defense manipulative, but it sounds sincere enough to me. Most of the stuff they're accused of don't really register as scummy with me.

Doesn't look like there's enough support for a ThAd lynch, though there's plenty of people who seem to doubt the claim. I really have to question the wisdom in letting a claimed killing role live when you don't think they're town. Probability dictates that he's more likely to shoot town than scum, so essentially you're just postponing the issue while allowing town numbers to go down faster. At least he's motivated to try and shoot in town's favor regardless of his alignment, I will grant that.

-------------

Nero Cain has pinged me hard lately and I think there's some interest there, so let's try that.

unvote, vote: Nero Cain

In post 3996, Nachomamma8 wrote:

In post 3854, Nero Cain wrote:So why was it not scummy on days 1 and 2? Why was my attack on Rena scummy but you didn't question any of the other players that followed me onto Rena?

It wasn't as scummy on Day 1 and Day 2 because I had other people in mind and I liked you from our exchange about mollie earlier. Now, I'm not so sure. I questioned you because I found your trail onto Rena suspect; I didn't pay attention to the others.

In post 3854, Nero Cain wrote:I'm relatively certain that I wasn't. Though I did find it scummy when he claimed he was way back on page 3. That looked like some hardcore stalling.

Seems pretty trutful to me considering he ended up replacing out not too long after.

In post 3854, Nero Cain wrote:IDK, I think all three of you are scummy. This whole "guess who my buddies are" is just cheeky scum trying to squirm out of a lynch.

It's me trying to figure out your thought process.

In post 3869, PeregrineV wrote:

Vote: Nacho

Why are you totally ignoring my request?

I didn't. I'm not necessarily completely complying with it, but I didn't ignore it.

In post 3870, Desperado wrote:Nacho, why don't you want to lynch AK anymore?

They seem town to me.

In post 3900, ThAdmiral wrote:In all seriousness though I tried to be useful about 10-15 pages back with some wagon analysis, and that is when everyone jumped on me.

So instead of taking it as "we see the content you're producing and we don't really like it" you took it as "stop producing content"? Come on now.

In post 3909, Amethyst Kitty wrote:I am also under the impression that he is a better player than this.

This is one of those things that always lead down bad bad roads. He might be a better player than you expect even though you don't agree with his reasoning, and he might be completely on track. On the other hand, he might not be used to this and it's frying his scumdar, OR you might be holding him up to unrealistic explanations. I've never really listened to this kind of reasoning unless people have had personal experience with the person before saying something like this.

In post 3912, Amethyst Kitty wrote:No, never mind. Peregrine is town

<<< Double-post deleted. >>>

Why is this?

In post 3950, Seanald wrote:UNVOTE: ceph

VOTE: AK

yeah sorry I just can't stand cry babies.

I mean I get the feeling that what your doing now is very frustrated town flailing but, your just too annoying for me right now, if you can calm down and start doing things logically I'll probably take this vote off.

Mollie, I didn't like this at all.

In post 3962, penguin_alien wrote:I just don't buy that he's a vig.

Do you think that he's a serial killer? Otherwise, there's no reason you should vote him today.

In post 4102, CrashTextDummie wrote:The Seanald wagon seems like somewhat of a "least common denominator" type of thing to me. The most appealing aspect of it is that his neighbor is on board, but there are certainly better lynch candidates in my view.

-----------------

Cephrir's argument for keeping ThAdmiral alive is terrible. He's giving him a pass for not giving a shit, when such an attitude is strictly alignment neutral. It's bad play if he's town (in that he makes no effort to help his faction), but can work as a strategy if he's scum, as evidenced by Cephrir's argument. And then on the same page, he offers up this insight into Seanald's play:

Cephrir wrote:I think that could be something scum might do to look town (unafraid of looking anti-town) but I have trouble imagining town caring little enough to vote for such a dumb reason when they are supposedly actually suspicious of someone else. Plus, why does Seanald care if someone is annoying when he barely seems to be reading the thread?

So ThAd can't be SK because he's unafraid of looking anti-town and not giving a shit, but Seanald can be scum because he's doing it to look town and would be giving a shit if he was town. He's essentially making the same argument for both players, but reaching completely opposite conclusion.

Meanwhile, Cephrir hasn't said a peep about the fact that ThAd is planning to shoot one of his strong town-reads. If he was town, I would expect him to at least acknowledge this in his rampant white-knighting of ThAd.


----------------

Nero Cain's stance on ThAd is just as bad. He flat out stated that he thought ThAd was scum, but that he should be kept around "because he could be useful". From a town-perspective, I can't follow this reasoning at all; if you think someone is scum, you lynch them. An additional killing role has just as much or even more of a potential to further devastate the town than it has to be "useful", and if you actually think the player in question is scum there's no reason to believe that their actions are going to be in town's favor.

Nero-scum

knows

if ThAd is going to be useful to him based on the people he expressed a willingness to shoot. It's exactly the kind of stance scum would want to take if they're not aligned with the people in the crosshair. Keeping ThAd lynchable ("I think he is scum") while letting him do your dirty work. Unlike every other person who's waffled on ThAd, he doesn't want to keep him alive so he can prove his claim or because he actually believes the claim, but simply so he can be "useful".

----------------

Those two (in addition to ThAd) should be our top priorities for a lynch.

In post 4158, Nachomamma8 wrote:

In post 463, Nero Cain wrote:yea, that reason sucks but you're still a freshman and I could see that coming from newtown. Welp, back to OS.

vote:OS

But I also echo Nacho here, if OS flips scum then you need death.

In post 467, Nero Cain wrote:RYU defending OS hard here...

In post 515, Nero Cain wrote:Note to self: OS doesn't comment on Mollie's huge deflect

I didn't like that Nero's push on OS came with so many "ignoring him? you must be scum with him" remarks. It's essentially discrediting everyone who goes against the wagon; I liked his push on me a lot better and he didn't bring up all that shit when pulling it, but that could also be because multiball and he thought he might have caught me out as scum. The strength of the read and how long it carried on doesn't really make sense, though; his case on me was for questioning him on the mollie third party comments, and that scumread has stuck until now.

In post 1377, Nero Cain wrote:I think ya'lls vote on Nacho was rather opportunistic. Nacho already had 3 votes on him. You laid down a 4th vote supposedly oblivious to the budding Nacho wagon, which is something that seems like it would be easy to fake. And then when I call you on it you minorly flip out and pull out the "hey look over there" defense by telling me that I should look at bcade.

In post 2401, Nero Cain wrote:

In post 2395, Seanald wrote:

In post 2375, Kublai Khan wrote:UNVOTE:
VOTE: Oversoul

Le't do this.

In post 2376, Syryana wrote:

In post 2375, Kublai Khan wrote:Le't do this.

VOTE: Oversoul

In post 2377, Nachomamma8 wrote:

Vote: Oversoul

In post 2378, Cephrir wrote:K.

Unvote, Vote: Oversoul

....really all in one page right in a row, someone is scum here. I lean nacho/Cephrir most.

This, but its also likely multiball so OS could still be scum.

+ its OS and I'd love to lynch that.

But considering the strength of Nero's scumread against me, I find it strange as fuck that he keeps on jumping on people who were unlikely buddies with me. I also have no idea where the multiball assertion came from (completely out of nowhere), but his endorsement of an OS wagon while voting me and while people are saying there are likely scum in the OS jump was scummy as fuck.

In post 3189, Nero Cain wrote:you scum? Why would you care about who I fake vig tonight?

<<< Double-post deleted. >>>

This was a bullshit line of reasoning and I hate it. Nero accused Arc of being scummy because she wanted to know who he would fake vig and that was rolefishing apparently... I figured he was trolling because the reasoning was so bad, but apparently not.

In post 3398, Nero Cain wrote:Why? He's prob town 'cause scumcho was voting for him.

He can vote for mislynches when I'm voting them because it's probably multiball. But when I'm attacking someone he doesn't want me to attack, he can call him town because I'm attacking them. That's convenient as fuck and I don't really see how town-Nero could ever have a thought process like this.

In post 3433, Nero Cain wrote:would I ever do without you? Thank you for telling me what *I* think. I have scum reads on both of you and I'm not picky in who we lynch.

And now he's talking about how his read on Fuzzy is as strong as his read on me, but. He's been voting me the entire game...

In post 3666, Nero Cain wrote:

In post 3664, Kublai Khan wrote:I don't think so. Given that they have history, it looks more like scum-Bacde obfuscating any potential read that Nachomamma8 can get on him.

Eh, Nacho looks like scum to me. I guess they could be scum from different teams.

"Not scum together? Multiball."

In post 3693, Nero Cain wrote:

To be clear, he attacked fuzzy for stalling on page 3 and then attacked Hayrena for not scumhunting.

In post 3781, Nero Cain wrote:We aren't shooting or lynching me at all. Bcade and Nacho want me dead for shit all reason and it makes me paranoid.

Nero getting paranoid about me doesn't make sense, considering he's been scumreading me the entire game.

In post 3810, Nero Cain wrote:This whole "Nacho is a good scumhunter so he as town has to be correct about Nero." is nothing but a big pile of bullshit and potential chain lynching. It also seems incredibly lazy.

Bacde says that he'll probably suspect Nero if I'm vigged and flipped town, Nero flips the fuck out.

In post 4125, Nero Cain wrote:Yep, my bad. The slot is obvious town 'cause scum NEVER replace out.

Nero's response to me saying that fuzzy being lost was genuine since he replaced out immediately after, and Nero Cain overreacts.

In post 4168, CrashTextDummie wrote:Nacho's Nero case is awesome. Nice catch on the D1 multiball comment in particular. Sheep him.

In post 4125, Nero Cain wrote:Yeah 'cause those 2 extra lynches via kill sure wouldn't help town at all. Its not the first time I've been willing to leash a scum (sk?) killing power. Thad is obviously lying/trolling about being a neighbor AND a vig. That last line is fucking horrible.

a) Kills carried out by scum are not extra lynches.
b) You haven't done fuck all to "leash" ThAd until after I called you out.

In post 4226, Nachomamma8 wrote:

In post 4224, Nero Cain wrote:What the absolute fuck is this scumcho? There was a reason that that scumRyu defended the fuck out of OS before he flipped town. And I'm accusing him of the same thing. You are playing way dense this game.

Yes, because he was white knighting. That doesn't mean everyone who defends someone else is white knighting.

In post 4224, Nero Cain wrote:A basic understanding of large game site meta. Stop being dumb.

You could talk about this a little more because we've all played in large normals before and they sure as hell aren't always multiball.

In post 4224, Nero Cain wrote:and why do you think that town Angel would care about my fake vig?

I don't know why. But I do think that she wouldn't be bold enough as scum to ask you about your fake vig if she thought you were a power role because she would be afraid you would turn it against her.

In post 4224, Nero Cain wrote:context is important here. ⅔ blue scum are dead. This means there’s only one blue scum left. Unless you are claiming to be the last blue scum (and therefore hunting redscum) then he does have a much higher chance of being town.

What makes me redscum?

In post 4224, Nero Cain wrote:So? I can have a scum read on more than one person. You are doing it so why are you being a hypocrite. This is also a lie ‘cause I started out both day 2 and 3 voting for Rena.

Then why do you still suspect Bacde? He's town if Haylen is voting him, right?

In post 4224, Nero Cain wrote:That’s ‘cause I wasn’t “getting” paranoid about you two.

Then what were you trying to say in that quote?

In post 4224, Nero Cain wrote:Yea ‘cause Bacade’s “Nacho is a good scumhunter so Nero has to be scum” made so much sense. I know that I’m town so any lynch/vig shot on me would be a waste. But I guess you’ll be ok with getting lynched/vigged when I flip town right?

Bacde was saying that he could be lynched if I flipped town, but you didn't find issue in that. You only freaked out when he suggested you be shot on my townflip.

In post 4224, Nero Cain wrote:That was NOT was was said. I was obviously being sarcastic.

I realize that, yeah.

<<< Fixed a quote tag. >>>

In post 4236, CrashTextDummie wrote:

In post 4233, ThAdmiral wrote:

In post 4168, CrashTextDummie wrote:Nacho's Nero case is awesome. Nice catch on the D1 multiball comment in particular. Sheep him.

I'm not convinced. I think in large games it is not unusual to assert it might be multi-ball.

I did a bit of digging in Nero's completed New York games and you have to go back more than a year to find a proper multiball game with two mafia factions.

NY 163: open set-up, one scum faction
NY 161: single scum team
NY 160: scum team + SK
NY 151: scum team + SK
NY 150: single scum team
NY 143: two scum teams

So I don't see why Nero would just randomly assume that this game has more than one scum faction. Quick ISO-skim of his posts in those games reveals that he considers mafia + SK multiball. But I don't think the possibility of an SK would influence his scumhunting the way the multiball assertion did in this game.

It also turns out that his multiball thoughts in this game are inconsistent:

In post 1377, Nero Cain wrote:As for my read on you. I think your play has been pretty scummy. I don't think that everyone has a town read at you and those that do have it 'cause of meta. I have never played with Mala and my experience with Mara is limited so I'm willing to listen to other players that have more experience with ya'll and besides you are helping me kill Nachoscum so you get to ride in my null pile until I find out that this is multiball.

In post 2402, Nero Cain wrote:This, but its also likely multiball so OS could still be scum.

He's giving Mala a pass until he finds out it's multiball. He doesn't give OS a pass because it's likely multiball.

Either Nero is town who arbitrarily decided this was multiball somewhere between these two posts, or he's scum who knew this was multiball from the beginning, scumhunted the opposite faction in terms of this knowledge and let it color his play.

In post 4257, Nachomamma8 wrote:

In post 4241, Nero Cain wrote:

In post 4228, Bulbazak wrote:

In post 4224, Nero Cain wrote:

In post 4152, Nachomamma8 wrote:

In post 4125, Nero Cain wrote:The fact that AK has a good chance of getting lynched today and you are defending her so so so hard is making alarm bells ring.

what does this even mean

"you think a person who other people find scummy is town? RED FLAGS EVERYWHERE"

What the absolute fuck is this scumcho? There was a reason that that scumRyu defended the fuck out of OS before he flipped town. And I'm accusing him of the same thing. You are playing way dense this game.

So I'm scum if AK flips scum, and I'm scum if AK flips town? Can you make up your mind, so I know exactly why I'm scum?

Well I have no clue what you are doing. Lets say for instance, if Ryu had flipped before OS. I'm pretty sure we'd have a group of players that would have thought that Ryu might have been defending a buddy and some that might think that Ryu was defending town for town cred. Town really has no way of knowing what scum are doing.

But we can kill it.

vote:Bulb

You accuse Bulb of being scum defending scum.
Then you accuse him of being scum defending town.
Then you get called out on it.
Your response is that you have no idea what he's doing but he's scum anyways because scum defended another player.
Fuck no.

In post 4304, CrashTextDummie wrote:I'm surprised the Nero wagon has stalled, but maybe I shouldn't be. It's made up almost exclusively of strong town reads. Nacho's case i think was a very solid piece of scumhunting and it's starting to really make me comfortable with him. The only person on the wagon I have issues with is Cephrir (and those issues have nothing to do with him being on the wagon). It looks to me like scum are reluctant to bus.

I haven't heard a good argument for why we shouldn't lynch Nero. AA9 thinks the wagon is bad because it's a counterwagon, which is a pretty wtf argument. HD is bored by the wagon. AK is against it because she has a meta read on Nero, I think? All these people need to give better reasons for why they aren't voting Nero right now.

Question to AK specifically because she's expressed a solid town read on 4/6 of the people voting Nero: If he's town, why aren't scum jumping at the opportunity to mislynch him?

Ffulisade, I disagree that Nero's defense hasn't been scummy. He's very selectively defending himself, hides behind theory discussion and is sidestepping most of the actual issues. Cases in point:
- His defense for dropping the D1 multiball tell is that he considers all 20+ player games likely multiball. But I've quoted an earlier post that's clearly designed to give the opposite impression, that Nero

didn't

just consider this game multiball without any supporting evidence. He didn't address this point at all because there is no defense for it. It's damning evidence.
- He's arguing back and forth about the merits of leaving a killing role alive, but he doesn't doesn't address the fact that he failed to do the one thing that actually makes the strategy feasible for town, the leashing. He meekly stated that we should give ThAd a pool of players to kill from, but only after I called him out.

In post 4396, CrashTextDummie wrote:Someone needs to explain to me why we are letting Nero Cain get away with lying on a fundamental level. Preferably Desperado or Ffulisade, because I know they're paying attention.

In post 4322, Nero Cain wrote:You've already pointed out that I use multiball interchangeably. I generally find Mala/Mara to be scummy. I did not know if we had scum team + sk or scum team + scumteam.

No. That does not match up at all with what he said at the time:

In post 1377, Nero Cain wrote:I have never played with Mala and my experience with Mara is limited so I'm willing to listen to other players that have more experience with ya'll and besides you are helping me kill Nachoscum so you get to ride in my null pile

until I find out that this is multiball.

"

Until I find out that this is multiball

". There is zero room for interpretation here. Nero did not, at the time of this post, want to give the impression that he was considering this a multiball game by default.

He even admits to the fact that he changed his tune depending on who he wanted to push: "I didn't want to pursue AK, so I said A", "I didn't want to derail the OS wagon so I said B". Who does that as town? It's a quintessential scum tactic.

This point alone should be enough to lynch him on the spot.

And this is just getting silly:

Nero Cain wrote:So what am I supposed to do to leash him? Yell at him in all caps that if he shoots outside the acceptable targets 'cause he already knows that's how I feel. I've been giving my reads all day and deadline is a week away and there's no point in finalizing my pool this far away. Why are you so curious to see who I want vigged?

Nero is the one advocating a "leashing" strategy. I think it's a terrible practice, so why should I be telling him what he's supposed to do to leash ThAd? I've already pointed out how this play makes perfect sense for Nero-scum and I still fail to see how it makes any sense for Nero-town. He's pleading that he couldn't have done any more to leash him, but if you can't do more than nothing, it's really not much a strategy, now is it?

-------------

The only argument I've seen in Nero's defense is that his play here reminds people of other town games of his. I find this to be a very unreliable use of meta, because it assumes that Nero-scum is incapable of emulating his town play. I think the manner and style of his defense here is par for the course for anyone who's invested in the game regardless of alignment, though it's worth pointing out that at various points in the game and until recently, Nero gave the impression that he wasn't terribly invested in the game. The

content

of his defense on the other hand is terrible.

Thoughts on other players coming up in a separate post.

In post 4413, CrashTextDummie wrote:Desperado, you are spooking me a great fucking deal. It's like we've entered bizzarro land.

You vote Nero Cain, and all it takes for you to move on is him showing up to defend himself ("stop flailing like a wuss", as you so nicely put it). It's enough for you to move him into the "likely won't lynch" pile even. I'm beginning to question why you voted him in the first place, he certainly hasn't defended well against the most pressing issues at hand. And now you've started defending him with arguments that are just astonishingly bad to me:

1. This is a normal game. Giving the scum team a color distinction when there's not actually a second scum team to match it is tantamount to bastard moddery. It's at the very least mod trickery, which is already against the spirit of normal games, and I'd be severely pissed off with Mastin and whomever greenlit the game if that was the case. In addition, we have had two kills a night and a third killing party claimed in ThAd. There is every reason to assume this is a multiball game at this point.
2. Even if it wasn't a multiball game, it doesn't have

any

bearing on Nero Cain's scumminess. He said something that directly contradicts his claimed game theory stance, to defend a player of questionable alignment (AK, who you read as scum). He claimed having this game theory stance to defend a

very

questionable line of reasoning he used to help lynch OS-town. There is

not a single thing

about this whole story that adds up to Nero being town and it doesn't make a lick of difference whether he knew this was multiball, thought this was multiball or knew the opposite.

Not only did you do an almost complete U-turn on Nero, you also apparently threw the big issue you had with the Seanald wagon out the window. The vast majority of your strong town reads still don't support a Seanald lynch, while the vast majority of your other scum reads does or did at the height of the wagon. I reread your case against him, and it's still not as strong as you make it out to be. The totality of your valid points doesn't even come close to matching the one huge point against Nero in scumminess, and there are other strong points in favor of Nero scum in addition to that.

Seriously, get a grip.

In post 3678, Slandaar wrote:

In post 200, DLG wrote:

In post 125, Red Ryu wrote:Thor dumb town, posts to actionDan make this more apparent.

If you're reading someone as Town, why are you working so hard to alienate that player?
Why, if you're reading someone as Town, are you expending effort to marginalize their opinion?

"Dumb Town, or Scum" is an exceptionally scummy read to give out for myriad reasons.

This guy needs a noose. Can't wait for the game to "officially" start so we can "quick-lynch" scum.

In post 494, DLG wrote:VOTE: ArcAngel9
I'm truly disturbed by the complete lack of scumhunting.

In post 217, ArcAngel9 wrote:

In post 203, CrashTextDummie wrote:We should massclaim. I am not joking.

Raise of hands, everyone in favor.

are you crazy.. No claims plz!!!!!!!!!!



Mastin2, I don't have any issue with HD hydra.

This is the kind of reaction I expect to a proposed massclaim from scum. Belittle the idea, but take no initiative to figure out why someone is proposing such an idea.

Also, rather than any commentary about any of the content that developed pre-game, or up to that point, an aside to the mod that served no purpose.

In post 227, ArcAngel9 wrote:^wow, that VCA is just mind blowing. Great job Mastin

This post, in particular, gave me scum feelings towards ArcAngel9. Absolutely no commentary on the game state, no attempts to figure anything out. Prefering to interact with the mod over interacting with the game and other players is not Town motivated.

Her later commentary that the Oversoul wagon is bad 'cuz it's soooo quick again betrays her lack of interest in figuring out anyone's alignment.

Yep, yep, this is scummy behavior from someone who got a scum role PM. Let's lynch her.

In post 764, DLG wrote:{Amethyst Kitty, Bacde, BeautyAndTheBeast, Cephrir, Nero Cain, Om the Destroyer} --> Players I have no interest in lynching.
{ArcAngel9, Bulbazak} --> Players I would instantly lynch given the chance.
{Desperado, Nachomamma8, Slandaar} --> Players I'm uncertain about.

Everyone else has either made no impression on me, or haven't posted.

The whole 3rd party/Indie thing threw me for a loop when I read through it. My Town read on BeautyAndTheBeast just about went out the window. With a little more explanation, I'm thinking it probably was a dust up over different meanings applied to the same general term.

My read on Nachomamma8 dropped away from Town through this, though. I mean, I don't at all get him calling Nero Cain's flare up a dumb point. That looked a significant amount like potentially Nachmamma8 subtly buddying pirate mollie in particular, and through that, the hydra read on him. I'm a little unsure about this point, but that was my initial reaction on reading that post.

So, anyway, I'd really like to see more votes on ArcAngel9 or Bulbazak. I really don't like what is coming across as Bulbazak white-knighting BeautyAndTheBeast.

I really think this is scum if you look at how Ryu falls off the map in DLG's final reads post. Town just don't forget about people who they are so strong regarding ie saying 'This guy needs a noose. Can't wait for the game to "officially" start so we can "quick-lynch" scum.' then completely forgetting about them?

anyways sure lynch thad

VOTE: ThAd

In post 3885, ffullisade wrote:

In post 3874, Amethyst Kitty wrote:http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=19101

byee

Fery come back soon! I misss youuu

y u no like meh

anyways I compared that to what you have done here. you only did it once in the you linked and thank you for doing that! cos I was able to see the difference in that you do >_> when it is other people's shifty behaviour yet you are doing it in

this

game in posts where you are actually shifty. not sure if you realise that or not.

I have a big poker tell. when I am actually holding something good in my hand I start twirling my hair. <----- I don't even know I am doing it it why I would probably be absolutely terrible IRL mafia.

also don't you just hate it when your scummate tries to bus you in the most awkward way possible?

VOTE: amethyst kitty

lynch this lynch it with fire guys

sorry it took me so long to get there, I had a reason I was staying away from them but I just realised that it is not adding up to their responses in this game.

In post 3894, ffullisade wrote:

In post 3892, Cephrir wrote:

In post 3886, Amethyst Kitty wrote:Mollie you are being mean to me. I'm not going to talk to when you're accusing me of lurking when I was sleeping.
The fact you're saying I'm going to make empty promises and didn't even give me a freaken chance. Then accuse of me of a relative scum tell which is NOT true.

In post 3887, Amethyst Kitty wrote:It's okay Mollie.

You'll learn that this little relative scum tell with >.> is bogus. Just like I had to learn that the relative scum tell I had on Om was no longer valid. Please stop saying I normally do when I write is a scum tell. I used to do it all the time on my other site and its where I picked it up from.

I can skim my only scum game there, but I don't even think I did shifty eyes, tbh.

In post 3884, Amethyst Kitty wrote:Please walk me trough the Despo town read. I'm just not seeing it.

Dear Mara I hate 1v1. Why would you do this shit? <.<

Yes town is town bussing us. *dances*

Like these all sound like frustrated scum to me

do you see the difference between desperado's flail and ak's flail? I think telling the difference between scum flail and town flail is the most important skill a player can learn. I am by no means perfect cos sometimes I get it wrong but I can usually manage to spot town flail. scum usually resort to emotional manipulation like what scummy ak is doing.

In post 3968, ffullisade wrote:

In post 3920, Amethyst Kitty wrote:The whole KK v AK that's all of Mara's. I'm not getting involved.

Despo:

You do realize we are a hydra right? Two heads don't see eye to eye on the same thing. We are fighting over the reads (again). I, Mala, sees you as leaning scum whereas Mara sees you as a weak town read.

I want Mollie to answer my question, but I'll see if that happens.

if you are town you need to knock the fucking bitchiness off. cos you both are starting to piss me off.

you asked fery for her desp read not me. you acted like you didn't even want to talk to me so you can fuck off with that shit.

I am reading desperado as town cos when he had a whole pile of pressure and was getting ready to get lynched he put a lot of effort into leaving a trail of his thoughts cos he thought he was getting lynched that day. #3909 is the first time you have done this even though I asked you both for a list of your thoughts yesterday. all I got was "mollie your stupid" that is why you looked like you were scum flailing not town flailing. cos that is what scum do. I mean hell I nearly escaped a lynch as scum once cos I said, "eat a dick town!" and you both know what game I am talking about.

and let be me clear. I am not lynching you over this >_>. relative tells take time to develope and I have no idea if it is one or not. I have a few that I feel good about and they are combo of town tells and scum tells. you were scum in uber's newbie game and I seem to remember you doing it a lot whenever you said something scummy. when I made that post it was me musing out loud. I don't have it down as a relative tell for you but if you flip scum you best believe I am putting that one down and if you try to deliberately use it as town to mess with meta all that it will get you is lynched, it would be better to just say "oh hey I am going to stop doing this cos it is a tell that I didn't even know I had!".

I am lynching you cos you have looked scummy all game. I have been staying away from you and trying to steer people away from you. desp asked me about my read on you. I listed games that I had meta knowledge of and pointed out how it was possible that you were town.

but her is the deal; if I am going to put my credibility on the line and ask other players to trust my judgment you best believe I am going to firm up that read. mala, I put my credibility on the line for rob when I shouldn't have in the epic game. he said a couple of wonky things but I was trusting

your

read but using

my

credibility. <---- will never do this again. from now on I will always firm up my read before doing that.

so how do I firm up my read? by interacting with players. I asked you about nero and was ignored until I started going after you and pointed out that you were ignoring my question. I asked for a list of all the players from towniest to scummiest and you still have yet to do that. #3909 is the only post that even remotely looks decent. but here is the thing; why did you not post something like that yesterday when I asked instead of you flailed around all over the place, called me stupid and tried to emotional manipulate me. at this point it might be a matter of too little too late but I am still catching up in the thread.

In post 3972, ffullisade wrote:

In post 3932, Amethyst Kitty wrote:You know what. Fuck it.

Mara is going solo. I'm done.

<<< If this is an official request for MS Marangal to replace Amethyst Kitty, please clarify to make it explicit. >>>

Mollie is going off on me for a relative tell that isn't a relative tell and ignoring everything she said prior. She's started to fish at me because I dropped a PR tell during Day 1, but didn't breadcrumb any results. So apparently me not breadcrumbing = me being scummy. She's ignoring anything and everything I might have told her during past games and even on skype.

I am not ignoring anything.

I pressured you and you reacted horribly.

you both

however ignored my question about nero and have not done the one thing that I asked you both to do.

so you think I am role fishing you? I mean if I spotted the tell you would be dead right? cos I don't leave specials alive

you still look like you are scum flailing.

Not to mention she won't explain the damn Despo town read.

as I mentioned in a previous post, you didn't ask me you asked fery. you told me "bye". so I have explained my desp read even though you never asked me are you going to put your big girl britches on and stop acting like a freaking 2 year old who is not getting their way?

AA is lurking and just jumping on the wagon without fleshing shit out.

Mara is engaging in 1vs1 which I don't want to fucken deal with.

Slandaar does a 180 because thor flipped out. Btw I will probably see another 180 from you during the next day after we flip town.

Despo is likely scum.

I agree, arc is lurking to the point of ridiculousness. unfortunately she does this as town and you know it cos you gmed a game with her and I in it. she freaking went awol for days, often didn't seem to know what was going on and she was town. I know you read that game so the lurking should be a null tell for her and you should know this.

I seriously doubt you are town at this point cos everything you are saying is bullshit.

In post 3979, ffullisade wrote:

In post 3976, Amethyst Kitty wrote:Mollie, Mala needs to cool down. Right now, she thinks you're acting like a bitch.

I wasn't the one who started calling someone stupid when they were asked to do something. if you were both at work like you claimed then a "I will get to it later, I promise" and a "we said we will get to it later". what you both did was to call me stupid over a period of several posts. <--- I call that the majiffy tell but lots of people do it when they are scum. nero and mastin are the only ones who do it regardless.

You know as well as I do how hard it is to do anything rationally when you're emotionally impaired.

lol.

when you pressured us, we were both unavailable to do anything beyond shallow interactions, we both told you this. Post 3909 was made the moment I got home from work, it was made ~5:00 my time

yeah you did and then proceeded to call me stupid and meltdown all over the place.

I gave you my read on nero, albiet it's mostly a response to Nacho but it has what you're looking for as well. at least I think it does.

you did not give it to me when I asked for it. you gave it later after some thought. cos when I originally asked for it you were around and not at work and had plenty of time to answer. you both were.

I also don't think I ignored any of your requests, I have followed through all of them when I said I would be able to do so. I told you, when you were asking for us to do something that I wouldn't be able to do it at that time.

no, I am still waiting for a complete list of all the players from towniest to scummiest. this is like the third time I have asked for it. I also want an explanation of your null reads if you have any.

3911 is what I have as reads at this time. I never do full reads list, I never explain my reads on someone unless I have to so 3911-12 is what you're going to have to deal with for now.

okay. so here you admit that you have not done what I asked of you after just saying you did everything I asked of you.

okay.

see here is the thing. the aTe-ing is not working for either fery or I. why cos we are both the Mistresses of Emotional Manipulation and do it regardless of alignment. there are different motivations behind it though. it is subtle, but they are there. fery and I have both self-voted, lashed out, fake meltdowns and emotionally manipulated the fuck out of anybody who tried to lynch us as scum. we have both even done the "fuck you" and I know I have subbed out of game cos I had too much IRL stuff going on but told other players that it was because of them. I think we have gotten burnt out on it though cos neither of us really do it as much anymore, for me, only special occasions. but I know it can be done and it usually wins games.

SO. if we remove all of the aTe and just go by body of work what we are looking at is a whole lot of scummy behaviour. there is a lot of inconsistency to what you guys are saying for instance mala saying that she asked me for my read on desp but she didn't she told me "bye", she asked fery. <----- crap like that looks more like scum getting rattled than desperate town trying to avoid a mislynch.

fery and I both still think you are scum. you cannot bullshit bullshitters <---- we can spot it. if you guys are town then all I can say is whoa, get a grip. we all lose it from time to time, LET ME BE THE FIRST TO SAY I HAVE HAD SOME AWSUM EPIC MELTDOWNS AS ALL ALIGNMENTS. <---- not proud of them (well some of them I kind of am cos they were really funny) but it happens.

anyhoo without much further ado

VOTE: amethyst kitty

In post 4027, ffullisade wrote:@ ak

Mala has him as scum. Mala thinks AD was really fluffy, and Thad is the exact same. He isn't as aggressive as she's used to him being and he's following pushes of others over making pushes of his own. She also think his Vig claim is lazy, and a fake-claim. she's thinking SK, or red scum.

She also thinks that Mollie's relative tell that we used in Tit for Tat can be used on him again this game

.

?

I went back and looked in our chatlog about that game and I don't see how you could interpret that tell and apply it to this game. if anything he is doing the opposite. I believe him cos of his whole suck my dick post which I found to be kind of funny. I am just not feeling that he is scum but then I suppose I could interact with him to firm up the read cos I haven't played with him that much. and I think I will.

@ nacho

re: seanalderina

I could see him making that post as either alignment but for completely different reasons.

re: ak

see, I don't think mara is acting at all like she did in polygamy. she seems too calm, almost like she is being coached. I see the same behaviour in popcorn either other than she was calmer in that game to a degree, she just didn't know what to say when wisdom went after her and I was not around to help. I have been negging on her scum game hard <---- cos I want her to improve her game. she and mala will understand this and I think so will you.

she says things like this:

for me, alot of it is meta based... he does alot of 1v1 ( I don't know if he does these as scum too) and his thoughts and ideas look pretty genuine to me. I see a bit of logical fallacy in his posts, though he's generally fearless with his opinions and doesn't really care of how others view it. He has that stubborness that I have witnessed him to have as town and is unwavering behind it. He's pretty aggressive in his attacks, the only thing I have a problem with is his choice of targets. some of them look pretty easy. I can't really follow his thought process behind his Rena, Kitty, Nero, and Thad votes but that's pretty minor I think.

and I don't feel like I am talking to mara. I swear that reads list looks more like mala than mara it is weird. I mean I feel like I am talking to this player:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... start=1200

iso it. mala's scum game is highly detailed.

but mara is signing the post. so it confuses me.

nacho I am telling you that I have done exactly what mala has done in this game as scum and everyone town read me for it. I know it is not good yardstick to measure another player with what I have done, but there is something there that I just don't like. I mean, how is applying pressure (and god knows I have been nice I mean we all know how mean I can get when I get pissed off <----working on it) being mean? go back and read the exchanges and tell me that it was not an overreaction.

and don't say a thing about how I am at tr that is years of frustration we are talking about that someone who is not familiar with the history would understand. I think you are putting them in your town pile and they don't really belong there.

I have always had a seekrit belief that the game is usually won by the player(s) who most wants it. I think scum really wants this, especially red scum. ak's post asking about "do you think that it is possible that it is scum + sk?" is a lead up to stoking the fires of a thad lynch. do you know what does not add up with their thad scum read? I fucking read him like a picture book so wouldn't you think they would put more stock in my read?

and of course if thad by some chance flips scum I will eat humble pie but I am going to fight his lynch kicking and screaming cos I want to at least give him a chance. also wondering if the stuff between khan and them is scum theatre. it is possible but I feel like slaandy if more of a likely partner.

In post 4035, ffullisade wrote:

In post 4029, Amethyst Kitty wrote:I'm going to keep every emotion that I may or may not have out of this post.

@Mollie:

You have a point in regards to the reads, but no it was actually Mara that did that. She asked me for my reads and I went back and read through all of Thez/Ruu's posts. I gave the reasons why I thought Thad/Despo are scum. Might not have been in great detail, but I tried to explain it as best.

Why ask us for our reads if you were just going to twist it and say we are scum for it

. Along with the fact you pulled up my scum game, but you're forgetting it's just not scum-Mala that can post reads like that because Town-Mala has also.

I have been wanting your reads all game. it took heavy pressuring before you finally gave them out in this day round. I want a trail. if you are town then hell yeah I will be doing a follow up if I am alive, if you are scum then hey we have something to work from.

My skype message to Mastin was about skype logs, but I think they are treated similar to QT post logs so I wanted to check with him before posting it. I would have proven that Mara did all of that work and not me.

Mollie I tried working with you earlier and tried to reach out a few times. I asked you about Thad because I saw that relative tell from Tit For Tat in this game. It wasn't as obvious, but it's there in his earlier posts.

there was no follow-up with the reach out instead you are applying a relative tell I have on a player when I am not applying it myself cos I am not seeing it. if it is there then show me. what you

might

be applying is what I had on his meta but then why not listen to the player who gave it to you.

You are forgetting that we are hydra'ing and we can control each other. The only time we can't control each other's emotions is when we aren't around at the same time. You're trying to fuel justification by saying she's being coached. Similar to KK saying that we were coaching Ryu. KK you need to read up on my meta I do the whole cop thing regardless of alignment. I flipped out of scum-OM for doing it because he tried to direct the action during Switch.

you were both around when you melted down. so not much control there. :/

it isn't similar to what I am saying about ryu at all. I don't think you are blue scum. I think you are red scum and there is someone on your team who is coaching you or you are coaching mara cos that did not look a post of hers. I also think you are playing the hydra cog dis to the max which is what we did in the popcorn game. but cog dis in a hydra a null tell so that is not my angle. my angle is, is that there is something going on with you 2 and when I pressed you scumflailed. I mean you melted down over

nothing

. mebbe you were mad cos I brought up the skype thing and that is why I tell people when I hydra with them to go ahead and put yourself on invisible if you are a lurky scum player cos it is pretty damn hard to ignore. and I see no reason not to bring it up when you don't do that, it at least lets you know to cover your tracks better. it is the same as remembering people's work and computer time schedules it is never something I intentionally do it is something that I just do.

if that is what offended you I apologise.

but if we are just going to go off of in thread behaviour up until this point you guyz looked pretty scummy and there was only 1 reason I could give for that, I even flagged it to nacho on d1 I think. one of the main reasons why I do not think he is scum but scum make weird choices in their nks on this site but I think nacho is town.

anyways you probably won't be the lynch for the day cos when women fight men scatter. it is a survival mechanism for them or something.

In post 4044, ffullisade wrote:I missed this post

In post 4031, Amethyst Kitty wrote:Oh and Mollie;

Mara doesn't appreciate you using her worse two scum games to judge her. Also the fact the post this game with the reads looks nothing like my detailed posts. Being calm is not a relative-scum tell.

I don't appreciate being called stupid just cos I decided to put pressure on you.

when did she tell you this? I think it looks more like yours and less like mara's. *shrug*

being calm

is

a relative scumtell but it may not apply to her. dunno.

So on the most random note. The fact is Rena, Nacho, Nero & our wagon took off like wildfire, but we can't get any votes onto Despo/KK.

I did say Thad too so I'm kinda wondering about that scum-read I had on him due to that fact, but the wagons were fast paced and I have noticed the wagons that are harder to get votes on are sometimes scum rather then town

.

when you get back lets talk about this.