Mini 1250: That 70s Smalltown - GAME OVER

[jasonT1981]

vote:Seacore

thought I did that in my last post.

[farside22]

Wow I'm tired.

Oh look mr. we should no lynch is now voting someone that others called out.

Please hammer the confirmed scum Jason. His name is Kdows

[farside22]

For those that missed it:
Kdowns originally stated the following:

@Kdow: Who do you think is scum and why?

I'm waiting on CS to respond in this game a bit more. His lack of input is bothering me most of all.

Ironically I think it's seacore, but that is what my gut and highly annoyed mind is thinking. Calling me out on lurking early today while I was at work ...

Now that CS is calling out Jason, he changes his mind not only about no lynch but who he finds scummy.


HAMMER HIM!

[kdowns]

I didnt change who I find scummy I just never posted anyone other than seacore.

[The Fonz]

Farside22 (0)
ConSpiracy (0)
jasont1981(1) kdowns
Seacore (1) JasonT1981

kdowns (2) Farside22 Seacore

L-1

Not voting: ConSpiracy

5A 3TL.

[jasonT1981]

I'm going to have a think about this. All 3 are on my list of scum, Obviously Seacore and Con would be my preference for today and have been for a while for the most part. I see no scum motive for Farside to push the lynch given he is confirmed as town though..

Bah, I need to think about this.

[ConSpiracy]

@Con: I was thinking more about night 1 about protecting the cop. Quilford was town and Jason could as scum said he protected Seacore night 1 and the scum could have killed the tracker, no question asked.

I thought night 2. The sort of the same applies though. (though less convincing) IceGuy was vocal about being protected night 1.

Bold 1 - Sounds like a lot of WIFOM me to be honest.

He wasn't vocal of who he wanted to lynch, he had suspicions from a few people and would be easy to make a case on (lurking, odd convo with MoI end day 1)

Bold 2 - No, I will be using my power. Any request for me not to use it, is one I look suspicious upon. Say 2 die in night, I can save 1 until end of next day. We get an extra shot at a lynch if we lynch right today, and puts town in a good position. Not using it = not an option I think. Also, not protect a confirmed town? that is something scum would want, to take out a confirmed town going into the final few people left...

I will tell you who you should or shouldn't use your power in the next post with reasons.

1. He protected the cop over the tracker.
2. He was told to protect the cop over the tracker.
3. As scum he knows who he kill delays, so WIFOM was out of the question anyways.
4. I blatantly disagree the discussion between Magua and Jason to be scum. Why not as scum bussing? It was totally a "Quilford is likely to be lynched so let's put some heat on each other"-bussing.

ConS, I don't understand your thinking at all.

1 - I protected cop, because a confirmed town was needed. I did not like protecting Seacore, but had to.
2 - I make my own decisions on that.
3 - As town I also know who I kill deley... so whats the point?
4 - I had always said Quil was town. As scum I could easily have ridden that wagon for an easy lynch. Now, Magua went after both me and Quil in nothing but WIFOM attack his attackers. That is not bussing, that was desperate scum.

1. Was a misunderstanding.
2. Though it would be scummy if you didn't protect him and he was killed
3. Read 2
4. When he didn't get much suspicion? Right...

Cons' is my number 2 scum suspect. I had this gut/fear moment about Seacore, but not him as mafia. No way in hell do I see it.
As for the "slip" by Cons I was thinking about Jason's JK'ing mb53.
However if Cons believes that Jason's jailed scum, why does he suspect him of being scum.

As Seacore said, this doesn't apply.

Next post will have some redirections to may auto win, depending on the flip.

[jasonT1981]

I will tell you who you should or shouldn't use your power in the next post with reasons.

Nope, I will not take direction from someone I heavily suspect as scum or SK. This feels very heavily like scum or a SK trying to direct night actions to their advantage. And that is why I will not let you tell me how I should use my actions.

[ConSpiracy]

Farside conf town JK (if kdowns is scum)
CS Neighbourizer
Jason Kill delayer
Seacore night action less.

If kdowns is SK, 1 mafia left

Farside JKs Jason
I neighbour Jason
Jason doesn't kill delay (JK'ed)

If kill goes through, Jason is conf. town. Jason tells if I neighbours. If not, I am scum. If I did, Seacore is scum.
So we force scum to no kill.
We lynch one from pool {jason, seacore, me}
Farside JKs one of the other two at night, 50% to have the right one.

This way, we have two players lynched instead of one.

If kdowns is mafia (very unlikely) 1 SK left

Farside JKs jason
I neighbour Seacore (QT talk)
Jason doesn't kill delay (JK'ed)

If kill goes through on farside, both I and Seacore know jason is conf. town. That way it will be a 1v1 between me and Seacore
If kill goes through on Seacore, I can be the only one to submit it, so I am scum
If kill goes trhough on me, Seacore can be the only one to submit it, so he is scum.
If no kill, we lynch {jason, seacore, me}
Farside has 50% to JK scum next night.

It's vital to JK jason, as he could kill delay his own kill. Though again two lynches possible (or a 1 v 1 between me and seacore)

If kdowns is town, 1 SK and 1 mafia left

If Seacore is mafia -> has to kill farside or she will win if scum (not if you haven't lied)

Farside JKs jason/seacore
I neigbour said player (or if I am JKed, nobody)
Jason kill delays farside.

We have to hope for only a cross kill to win.

Every body, look for holes. If every one agreed with it, I will hammer. And jason, lucky you. This way it doens't even matter if you kill delay or not.

[Seacore]

I just woke up, but I see no problem with the plan. Assuming kdowns is SK, we've won this.

[Seacore]

Okay, I've thought more about it.

The kdowns SK plan is stong, and Jason should follow that plan regardless of where it came from. It will win the game for us

The kdowns Mafia plan is weaker but I agree that it's the best we've got. It still seems to come down to a lylo, but gives us some info.

The kdowns town plan isn't really a plan, but that's fine, because it,s really unlikely.

[farside22]

I'm going to have a think about this. All 3 are on my list of scum, Obviously Seacore and Con would be my preference for today and have been for a while for the most part. I see no scum motive for Farside to push the lynch given he is confirmed as town though..

Bah, I need to think about this.

If push came to shove I would lynch either Kdowns or Cons.
Problem is if Kdowns is the SK or mafia me JK'ing him does nothing.

[farside22]

I so can WIFOM that plan.
Scum knows who I targets, chooses not to kill and allows X player I target to be the lynch genine pig for a scum/sk win.

Yeah, no thanks.

That is why I'm not telling anyone who I will be JK'ing tonight.

[jasonT1981]

and why I wont be telling anyone who i protect...the danger of this plan is scum and SK can control night actions to their advantage (especially since 2 of 3 are scum/sk). im a little drunk right now though, so will post tomorrow. The only ones whos opinion I can I fully trust right now is Farside as he is confirmed town and I know his actions/posts/thoughts are what he thinks is best for town.

the rest, i cant trust.

[farside22]

I didnt change who I find scummy I just never posted anyone other than seacore.

I asked you twice to tell me who you thought was scummy and the only person you named was Seacore.

Your verified that with your second post. You never said squat about Jason and your vote is opportunistically scummy.

[jasonT1981]

I didnt change who I find scummy I just never posted anyone other than seacore.

I asked you twice to tell me who you thought was scummy and the only person you named was Seacore.

Your verified that with your second post. You never said squat about Jason and your vote is opportunistically scummy.

Damn, you know... you're right. I did a quick ISO of KDowns, his first mention of me, this ENTIRE game was the vote. which he later explained as 'just poking at me'

Nope, Although Compared to you and Farside who have me labeled as the Most, Jason has me the least and I am just poking him atm.

Most of his posts are one liners, pointless and no real notions of hunting scum.

Yea, looking in ISO of Kdowns, It is shocking, but this post sticks out the most to me.

Policy lynches tend to lead to a mislynch

In my case it would of been a mislynch

I don't know why, but this, and the below appeal to fear/emotion really sits out at me...Gah, im very conflicted right now on this.

Fine. If you are going to base it off of that then lynch me. It'll be a Town Loss.

One last time I am going to ask

? Oh Wait. I just realized I did hammer both times. But I am not the SK . I can prove this to you.

Prove this to us.Or tell us you can not actually answer this, because your signals are mixed on this.

I also would ask, why if you say this. Today (D3)

VOTE: No Lynch

this

I will not support for any lynch today because it is Mylo.

this

... I'm not hammering anyone, I am keeping my vote on No Lynch.

and this

In this situation I think it would be best to No Lynch.

you suddenly jump to a vote on me... for NOT suspecting you as highly.

I don't understand his motivation for wanting to kill me as he could of Hammered me by now.

You are right, I could have hammered a long time ago, I have long said I would rather lynch Seacore or Con... yet you find this suspicious? how so?

Why the sudden vote swing from no where after a very staunch position of no lynch? Where did I say I wanted to kill you? I have never said such words. I have said I suspect you as scum or SK, but not as highly as others (but the more I look, the more I am thinking your lynch could be a good idea) but not that I want to kill you!

Gah.. I need to bloody sleep on this.

[Seacore]

I really don't understand the paranoia you two have of ConS plan, parts of it look rock solid to me and the rest doesn't seem open to scum manipulation, but whatever. Either way, kdowns has to die, stop dragging it out jason, nobody else is going to receive 3 votes today.

You'd need me to get ConS lynched, and I'm still undecided about which of you is the other scum. Killing kdowns buys me a night to decide.
Likewise, I don't think Farside or Cons is willing to have me lynched.

[ConSpiracy]

Okay, I've thought more about it.

The kdowns SK plan is stong, and Jason should follow that plan regardless of where it came from. It will win the game for us

The kdowns Mafia plan is weaker but I agree that it's the best we've got. It still seems to come down to a lylo, but gives us some info.

The kdowns town plan isn't really a plan, but that's fine, because it,s really unlikely.

Keep in mind that the SK doesn't mean an auto win, because we can just lynch 2 out of 3.
The Mafia plan is entirely the same, except for the possibility of a Seacore-me 1v1.
The town plan isn't really possible, because no-one is trusted to be town and we have to hope for a cross kill and no other kill to win the game. (or two cross kills obviously)

I so can WIFOM that plan.
Scum knows who I targets, chooses not to kill and allows X player I target to be the lynch genine pig for a scum/sk win.

Yeah, no thanks.

That is why I'm not telling anyone who I will be JK'ing tonight.

Can you just stop your paranoia for once and actually read my plan. It even consists the possibility of scum not sending in a kill...
Really farside, being thick headed as this is not going to help. Read my plan and find a flaw in it. If not, you follow the plan. If you find one, don't follow the plan. The possibility of lynching two players is far better than just lynching one player.

and why I wont be telling anyone who i protect...the danger of this plan is scum and SK can control night actions to their advantage (especially since 2 of 3 are scum/sk). im a little drunk right now though, so will post tomorrow. The only ones whos opinion I can I fully trust right now is Farside as he is confirmed town and I know his actions/posts/thoughts are what he thinks is best for town.

the rest, i cant trust.

Again, that is all thought out in the plan. Instead of just throwing it away entirely without looking at it, read it.
also the buddying up to farside is noted.

---

All right, so let's say we don't stick to the plan.
If kdowns is SK/mafia, a NK is much more likely to happen/or be delayed. (read my plan that shows why scum most likely wouldn't kill if that plan is done)
That makes it 2:1. That is LyLo instead of MyLo with conf. town JK that can stop the night kill.

[jasonT1981]

you see, the reason for my 'Paranoia' as you put it, and reluctance to go along with the 'plan' is that I know I am town, I know Farside is confirmed town... the rest are unknown and all highly suspect as scum SK, and we know that 2 of 3 of you are, so it stands to reason AT BEST that IF Kdowns is anti-town at least one pushing this 'plan' is not in the towns interests.

And there is the

very real possibility

you both are anti-town roles leading this scenario and controlling the night actions. I am not having it, and I am not having my actions dictated to me by someone(s) who I feel should be lynched today.

The only one who will have a say in what I do tonight, is me... IF you really are town, you should fully understand my reasons as to why I won't.. the fact you don't shows me that you don't have towns interests at heart.

[ConSpiracy]

you see, the reason for my 'Paranoia' as you put it, and reluctance to go along with the 'plan' is that I know I am town, I know Farside is confirmed town... the rest are unknown and all highly suspect as scum SK, and we know that 2 of 3 of you are, so it stands to reason AT BEST that IF Kdowns is anti-town at least one pushing this 'plan' is not in the towns interests.

And there is the

very real possibility

you both are anti-town roles leading this scenario and controlling the night actions. I am not having it, and I am not having my actions dictated to me by someone(s) who I feel should be lynched today.

The only one who will have a say in what I do tonight, is me... IF you really are town, you should fully understand my reasons as to why I won't.. the fact you don't shows me that you don't have towns interests at heart.

1. That is not a reason not to follow the plan as you again didn't read it. Read it, quote en tell what is wrong about the plan instead of just saying "Meh, I don't wanna do it because it might be wrong"
2. That's occasion 3, were I said you should kill delay. (Farside in this case)
3. The fact that you aren't even considering a plan that has gives town 2 lynches instead of 1 is not in the best town's interest. If you are really town, you'd at least read it and tell and quote what's wrong about it.

[farside22]

@CS: Lets say I JK Seacore tonight and no one dies will you think he was scum?

[ConSpiracy]

@CS: Lets say I JK Seacore tonight and no one dies will you think he was scum?

Nope, as the plan says (though with jason as Jked)

[jasonT1981]

you see, the reason for my 'Paranoia' as you put it, and reluctance to go along with the 'plan' is that I know I am town, I know Farside is confirmed town... the rest are unknown and all highly suspect as scum SK, and we know that 2 of 3 of you are, so it stands to reason AT BEST that IF Kdowns is anti-town at least one pushing this 'plan' is not in the towns interests.

And there is the

very real possibility

you both are anti-town roles leading this scenario and controlling the night actions. I am not having it, and I am not having my actions dictated to me by someone(s) who I feel should be lynched today.

The only one who will have a say in what I do tonight, is me... IF you really are town, you should fully understand my reasons as to why I won't.. the fact you don't shows me that you don't have towns interests at heart.

1. That is not a reason not to follow the plan as you again didn't read it. Read it, quote en tell what is wrong about the plan instead of just saying "Meh, I don't wanna do it because it might be wrong"
2. That's occasion 3, were I said you should kill delay. (Farside in this case)
3. The fact that you aren't even considering a plan that has gives town 2 lynches instead of 1 is not in the best town's interest. If you are really town, you'd at least read it and tell and quote what's wrong about it.

I have read it, you seem to think I have not. the point is, this is fully open to scum/SK manipulation like Farside points out. Given I already know 2 of you 3 are guarenteed scum/SK... you see my bind, right?

[ConSpiracy]

I have read it, you seem to think I have not. the point is, this is fully open to scum/SK manipulation like Farside points out. Given I already know 2 of you 3 are guarenteed scum/SK... you see my bind, right?

Point out how. There is no manipulation. The thing farside pointed out is thought of in the plan.

[Seacore]

The plan is really clear.

If (when) kdowns flips as SK, then we'll know that there's only a mafia out there. Because mafia cannot do their Kill action and their normal action, the plan works as follows
Confirmed town farside JKs jason. Therefore if there is a kill, we know jason is confirmed town.
Cons will also target Jason as a neighbour. So if there is a kill (which confirms jason as town) confirmed town jason can say whether he was targeted with neighbour by ConS or not.
If ConS used his neighbour power, he cannot kill. Which means if Farside didn't kill, and jason didn't kill and Cons didn't kill, if there was a kill, it must have been me. If Cons didn't use his neighbour power, we assume he was the killer and lynch him.

It is almost perfect.
If there is no kill, however, it does not prove jason is scum, but it still allows us one more day to discuss it with all of us still alive. It is a great plan.
Small town games are all about working out the best combination of actions and targets, to say "no, I'm going to go rogue, because I know I'm town" is dumb when the plan is great.
If the plan is clear and there are no holes, then it doesn't matter who came up with it, it exists on it's own merits.

Find a flaw with it, or follow it. To do otherwise is scummy.

Okay, so that was scenario 1.

Scenario 2 is if kdowns is mafia
This leaves an SK alive which means we can't declare "using an ability" as proof that you didn't kill.
I think the best scenario for it is that Farside JK's jason
This is not so much to stop jason from killing as to a) remove the kill delay from the equation and to b) protect him.
This means that if there is a death it is ConS or myself. Which gives us a 50/50 in lylo.
This is much better than any other option. If the kill delay is used (or left unJK'd) then jason could delay and kill the same target which really muddies the waters.

Finally, if kdowns is town then it really just all comes down to where the NKs fall and abilities should not be dictated.

Again I will say that instead of being blind and just saying "scum would totally want to dictate actions" actually look at the plan(s). The kdowns-SK one in particular is awesome. Best case scenario it wins us the game, worst case scenario it makes us skip a night.

Unvote

I really want to hear jason (and farside) say that they'll follow the plan or why they won't before we get to a lynch. You MUST find a problem with the plan before saying no.