Mohab, could you explain what you found scummy about my slot ? I feel like my eyes will end up ignoring your posts if I don’t understand how you’re interpreting group 2 individually.
Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 9:46 am
by Mohab500
I am off for now, but I did see this stuff and I'll respond as soon as I have time tomorrow.
Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 9:53 am
by clidd
Mohab500 wrote:I am off for now, but I did see this stuff and I'll respond as soon as I have time tomorrow.
Ok.
Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 10:05 am
by dsjstr
Being in a 1 v 3 might not be as good as it sounds. Who ever the mafia is will kill someone from group 2 because of all the lynchbait in group 3. They will probably divide the 3 into separate groups which will lead us to imploding in on ourselves. Even if the person from group 2 is town how likely is it that the right bait is lynched? We need to stop talking about lynching based on the setup and start solving. No reason to rush this. UNVOTE:
Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 10:11 am
by clidd
Spoiler:
In post 362, Raya36 wrote:As promised time to dive into some Clidd analysis.
I thought his entrance was ok. He didn't waste time and came in right away with a new idea. I don't think what he said holds much weight and I don't think I'd ever use that as reasoning for a read but I think it's a good thought nonetheless. I think what I like most about it is instead of coming in and speculating the basic partition set-up like most of everyone else he's instead offered a new view which is still kind of related to mechanics but is also on the verge of scumhunting. Also if scum were trying to use this to push people who posted early game I'd expect them to actually go somewhere with it but he doesn't.
Now for his analysis post. I thought it was a good summary and organized things neatly for town to figure out what was most likely which is good. There's not much else I can say about it than that besides his logic seems sound and he seems to have good intentions. I will admit I'm not very strong mechanically so I did get a little lost in the discussion about this post.
In post 184, clidd wrote:
This sporadic behavior by Ame does not seem natural to me. I don't know to what extent she still has some paranoia for my slot, or if she is acting in bad faith with this push.
I agree with this point. I haven't played much with Ame before but her posting seems a bit fluffy as well. Although I haven't looked too much into it yet since I don't plan on going for group 1 and she has content as well as the fluff.
In post 166, Mohab500 wrote:I know I said I had a hunch that group 3 had 2 scum in it, but I am actually having a hunchier hunch about group 2 being all scum, so let's vote group 2, shall we?
I feel that your comments on posts 56, 57 and 138 were a more fluid progression. This change in posture did not seem to me to be within the investigative instance of before, which gives me the impression that it is a forced inference.
I find it odd that he shades someone suggesting voting for his group instead of discussing the suggestion directly. It makes me inclined to believe that he's trying to take away credibility. That said, if he thinks Albert is town and he's town this makes perfect sense.
I think his reads are fine. I don't completely agree with everything but his reasoning is good.
@Clidd, do you have a read on Albert outside of partition composition?
Overall I'm not convinced Clidd is scum and I still think that Albert is town. I really think scum would tone down their push for group 1 a little bit if they were pushing an agenda. For Clidd everything seems to come from the point of view of town in a group of 2 who reads their other group member as town.
I know I said I didn't want to make decisions based on the partitions but I think group 3 is the better choice still and partly because it has 1 more player than group 2. I don't think Albert is scum and I'm also leaning towards Clidd being town. Group 3 seems to have players that are more widely scumread and I think the chances of getting at least 1 scum in there are much higher than in group 2. I think group 2 is all town based on my reads and the partitions are 2-0-1, 1-0-2, or 3-0-0.
''
@Clidd, do you have a read on Albert outside of partition composition?
''
If you want, I can go into details, but basically it is because of the way he is playing. The aggressiveness he showed in defending the idea that group 1 is strategically feasible to be lynched seems to me an ignorant behavior that I see coming from an interpersonal trait characteristic of his profile, where he is probably frustrated/irritated by the gamestate, which makes sense within the scenario in which Town!Albert demonstrates emotional levels that would not make much sense in the Scum!Albert mentality, where he would be aware that his reasoning is fraudulent. In other words, it is my interpretation of the slot to distinguish that his expressions/reactions are within a natural spectrum of conduct, very different from what I feel about Ame, for example (which is forced).
Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 10:27 am
by Albert B. Rampage
In post 455, dsjstr wrote:Being in a 1 v 3 might not be as good as it sounds. Who ever the mafia is will kill someone from group 2 because of all the lynchbait in group 3. They will probably divide the 3 into separate groups which will lead us to imploding in on ourselves. Even if the person from group 2 is town how likely is it that the right bait is lynched? We need to stop talking about lynching based on the setup and start solving. No reason to rush this. UNVOTE:
This isn't right. If there's 1 scum left, it will be 2-1-1, town can lynch a group with one person in it, then it will be 1-1-1 and town can lynch again. This is the best odds of winning possible.
In post 350, Adorable wrote:I also think whoever are scum in this game are trying way too hard to look towny and it is Group 1 who is getting town read alot.
This feels like scum acting like they're scumhunting tbh, this statement adds little to nothing here: we know scum is trying to act like townt so can you please tell us something more discreet? What do you mean by trying too hard to be towny? And was that last part a jab against Group 1 or are you actually defending Group 1?
Actually idk if I townread Mohab anymore. Adorable seems like obvious lynchbait to me and their first post suggests they aren't aware of the set-up which scum would be. That could be a fake "slip" of course but based on the rest of their play I just don't think they would do that.
In post 391, Mohab500 wrote:Quick read, the way Albert is playing it seems he's banking on lynching Group 1 then not even having a day 2, so I am in favour of a group 2 lynch for the moment (for real now).
I'm also getting the feeling they were only voting for their group at first to get town-cred. I bet they planned to move to group 2 after the whole time.
In post 409, Mohab500 wrote:I just noticed, checking meta isn't even necessary at this point. This guy is misleading the rest of town, so I say if we only lose two town members at the most, we should just lynch group 2 to get rid of him. VOTE: group 2 I think my vote is on them, but just to confirm.
The only situation I see Albert being scum is him trying to bait the lynch on group 2 by acting very loud about lynching group 1. But it makes no sense to put scum in a group of 2 then bait it. So I really don't think Albert is scum. No scum would be that obvious about an agenda without their agenda being to be noticed.
In post 362, Raya36 wrote:As promised time to dive into some Clidd analysis.
I thought his entrance was ok. He didn't waste time and came in right away with a new idea. I don't think what he said holds much weight and I don't think I'd ever use that as reasoning for a read but I think it's a good thought nonetheless. I think what I like most about it is instead of coming in and speculating the basic partition set-up like most of everyone else he's instead offered a new view which is still kind of related to mechanics but is also on the verge of scumhunting. Also if scum were trying to use this to push people who posted early game I'd expect them to actually go somewhere with it but he doesn't.
Now for his analysis post. I thought it was a good summary and organized things neatly for town to figure out what was most likely which is good. There's not much else I can say about it than that besides his logic seems sound and he seems to have good intentions. I will admit I'm not very strong mechanically so I did get a little lost in the discussion about this post.
In post 184, clidd wrote:
This sporadic behavior by Ame does not seem natural to me. I don't know to what extent she still has some paranoia for my slot, or if she is acting in bad faith with this push.
I agree with this point. I haven't played much with Ame before but her posting seems a bit fluffy as well. Although I haven't looked too much into it yet since I don't plan on going for group 1 and she has content as well as the fluff.
In post 166, Mohab500 wrote:I know I said I had a hunch that group 3 had 2 scum in it, but I am actually having a hunchier hunch about group 2 being all scum, so let's vote group 2, shall we?
I feel that your comments on posts 56, 57 and 138 were a more fluid progression. This change in posture did not seem to me to be within the investigative instance of before, which gives me the impression that it is a forced inference.
I find it odd that he shades someone suggesting voting for his group instead of discussing the suggestion directly. It makes me inclined to believe that he's trying to take away credibility. That said, if he thinks Albert is town and he's town this makes perfect sense.
I think his reads are fine. I don't completely agree with everything but his reasoning is good.
@Clidd, do you have a read on Albert outside of partition composition?
Overall I'm not convinced Clidd is scum and I still think that Albert is town. I really think scum would tone down their push for group 1 a little bit if they were pushing an agenda. For Clidd everything seems to come from the point of view of town in a group of 2 who reads their other group member as town.
I know I said I didn't want to make decisions based on the partitions but I think group 3 is the better choice still and partly because it has 1 more player than group 2. I don't think Albert is scum and I'm also leaning towards Clidd being town. Group 3 seems to have players that are more widely scumread and I think the chances of getting at least 1 scum in there are much higher than in group 2. I think group 2 is all town based on my reads and the partitions are 2-0-1, 1-0-2, or 3-0-0.
''
@Clidd, do you have a read on Albert outside of partition composition?
''
If you want, I can go into details, but basically it is because of the way he is playing. The aggressiveness he showed in defending the idea that group 1 is strategically feasible to be lynched seems to me an ignorant behavior that I see coming from an interpersonal trait characteristic of his profile, where he is probably frustrated/irritated by the gamestate, which makes sense within the scenario in which Town!Albert demonstrates emotional levels that would not make much sense in the Scum!Albert mentality, where he would be aware that his reasoning is fraudulent. In other words, it is my interpretation of the slot to distinguish that his expressions/reactions are within a natural spectrum of conduct, very different from what I feel about Ame, for example (which is forced).
I still think this is town
Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 10:49 am
by Raya36
Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 11:19 am
by Daenerys and Dragons
if there is some weird scum conspiracy to lynch a bunch of town in 1 to win then Albert would be scum obviously
In post 455, dsjstr wrote:Being in a 1 v 3 might not be as good as it sounds. Who ever the mafia is will kill someone from group 2 because of all the lynchbait in group 3. They will probably divide the 3 into separate groups which will lead us to imploding in on ourselves. Even if the person from group 2 is town how likely is it that the right bait is lynched? We need to stop talking about lynching based on the setup and start solving. No reason to rush this. UNVOTE:
This isn't right. If there's 1 scum left, it will be 2-1-1, town can lynch a group with one person in it, then it will be 1-1-1 and town can lynch again. This is the best odds of winning possible.
Mafia get a NK
Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 11:25 am
by Raya36
In post 461, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:if there is some weird scum conspiracy to lynch a bunch of town in 1 to win then Albert would be scum obviously
In post 455, dsjstr wrote:Being in a 1 v 3 might not be as good as it sounds. Who ever the mafia is will kill someone from group 2 because of all the lynchbait in group 3. They will probably divide the 3 into separate groups which will lead us to imploding in on ourselves. Even if the person from group 2 is town how likely is it that the right bait is lynched? We need to stop talking about lynching based on the setup and start solving. No reason to rush this. UNVOTE:
This isn't right. If there's 1 scum left, it will be 2-1-1, town can lynch a group with one person in it, then it will be 1-1-1 and town can lynch again. This is the best odds of winning possible.
Mafia get a NK
They only have a NK N1. 5 players left in group 2 and 3. 4 left after NK.
your faction is responsible for forming a partition each night. i will take whatever the last bolded proposition is, as long as it places every living player (or every player that will be living come morning) in one of the three groups, and no groups are empty. you may ask me randomize the order of the groups and the players within the groups. if i don't get a valid partition i will create one randomly.
on the first night, you may also select someone to be killed.
you win when you control half the vote during a day phase, or when nothing can stop that from happening.
please confirm by proposing a partition for day 1 (or affirming another suggestion)
Hmm, this will create more WIFOM. It obviously justifies 1-?-? because that would be the only time the mafia could pull it off.
Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 12:17 pm
by Albert B. Rampage
what did you say?
Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 1:22 pm
by dsjstr
I'm not sure how to answer that...
Could you be specific about what you want me to say
In post 461, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:if there is some weird scum conspiracy to lynch a bunch of town in 1 to win then Albert would be scum obviously
-dragons
But Albert is acting way too obvious for that??
thats exactly what i'd expect scum!albert to do. it's lower effort, and it plays into the WIFOM very nicely
your faction is responsible for forming a partition each night. i will take whatever the last bolded proposition is, as long as it places every living player (or every player that will be living come morning) in one of the three groups, and no groups are empty. you may ask me randomize the order of the groups and the players within the groups. if i don't get a valid partition i will create one randomly.
on the first night, you may also select someone to be killed.
you win when you control half the vote during a day phase, or when nothing can stop that from happening.
please confirm by proposing a partition for day 1 (or affirming another suggestion)
Hmm, this will create more WIFOM. It obviously justifies 1-?-? because that would be the only time the mafia could pull it off.
In post 461, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:if there is some weird scum conspiracy to lynch a bunch of town in 1 to win then Albert would be scum obviously
-dragons
But Albert is acting way too obvious for that??
thats exactly what i'd expect scum!albert to do. it's lower effort, and it plays into the WIFOM very nicely
So you're thinking scum want us to lynch group 1 and Albert is the one in charge of aggressively pushing that? And that's why he's in the smallest group maybe? In case that backfired?
In post 461, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:if there is some weird scum conspiracy to lynch a bunch of town in 1 to win then Albert would be scum obviously
-dragons
But Albert is acting way too obvious for that??
thats exactly what i'd expect scum!albert to do. it's lower effort, and it plays into the WIFOM very nicely
So you're thinking scum want us to lynch group 1 and Albert is the one in charge of aggressively pushing that? And that's why he's in the smallest group maybe? In case that backfired?
In post 461, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:if there is some weird scum conspiracy to lynch a bunch of town in 1 to win then Albert would be scum obviously
-dragons
But Albert is acting way too obvious for that??
thats exactly what i'd expect scum!albert to do. it's lower effort, and it plays into the WIFOM very nicely
So you're thinking scum want us to lynch group 1 and Albert is the one in charge of aggressively pushing that? And that's why he's in the smallest group maybe? In case that backfired?
I haven't decided. I'm leaning towards that not being the case, though. I think 2-3 scum are in group one.
The scenario im talking about is if scum distributed 1/1/1. Scum in group one advocates for group one annihilation. Albert in group two advocates to kill group one. And the scum in group three could do it too
I can feasibly see Albert!scum opting to choose to do a super obvious scream that group 1 is obvscum (as WIFOM), but im leaning towards that not being the case
Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 2:05 pm
by Albert B. Rampage
I would propose marriage to a bat before I did 1/1/1 as scum.