Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

[Cheetory6]

Then CDB should have gotten notice your target went nowhere as that is the site meta yet I believe CDB claimed no result.

We've already been over this.
No result === no action, or sign wrong, or potential interference.

[Oversoul]

Or Aronis didn't use an action.

Or Aronis didn't use an action.

Then CDB should have gotten notice your target went nowhere as that is the site meta yet I believe CDB claimed no result.

That's how his role functions I believe

[TellTaleHeart]

This pretty much guarantees an action to go through tonight

unless roleblocked.

That's the catch.

Yes but with CDB it would be confirmed he was roleblocked. A lot more uncertainty exists with Mastin's action.

True.

Boon: CDB

[TellTaleHeart]

Oh wait, CDB said he already knew Aronis' sign though.

[Titus]

Then CDB should have gotten notice your target went nowhere as that is the site meta yet I believe CDB claimed no result.

We've already been over this.
No result === no action, or sign wrong, or potential interference.

CDB claimed an action so that is out.
CDB claimed he knew Aronis's sign so not matching signs is scum interference.
So that leaves

Aronis scum, CDB scum or roleblock.

[Cheetory6]

*deep breath*
Aronis could be scum or town who didn't make an action Major N1.
That is the alternative situation that CDB and I are referencing.

[Cheetory6]

Fekkk Oversoul and I are referencing*

[Untrod Tripod]

boon: TTH

any particular reason to not boon the almost-definitely-town?

[Cheetory6]

Because she can't do anything with it?
Might as well just not boon in that case.
zzzzzz.

If CDB is town then he's the best choice for the boon.

[Titus]

*deep breath*
Aronis could be scum or town who didn't make an action Major N1.
That is the alternative situation that CDB and I are referencing.

Then CDB gets a target went nowhere.

[Untrod Tripod]

ugh what did she claim

honestly I think that's almost as good as just not possibly giving scum two free kills tonight....

[TellTaleHeart]

boon: TTH

any particular reason to not boon the almost-definitely-town?

I don't have an action.

[ActionDan]

Tbh giving it to scum isn't that big of a deal anyway. With jarvik alive we should assume scum will get off 2 kills anyway, since they have 4 unmakes (atm) to play around with plus detects which should garner a kill in addition to the one im sure they'd have scoped out with jarviks ability. The question becomes whether it's best to diversify. If cdb is town this will paint the target on his back ever redder.

Definitely not worth giving to mastin tho.

[Oversoul]

*deep breath*
Aronis could be scum or town who didn't make an action Major N1.
That is the alternative situation that CDB and I are referencing.

Then CDB gets a target went nowhere.

In a non-hito game this is true. But in Hito's games he leaves more room for error. He doesn't give trackers the explicit knowledge to know they were roleblocked with a no result response.

Hito groups no result if you get roleblocked with no result if the target goes nowhere

[Titus]

Spoiler: CDB Claim Quotes

Right, given the situation, I think I have to do this now. I have been trying very hard to avoid having to do so.

I am Cepira Rulk, the Harrier.

I am a Tracker, slightly modified

.

If I match sign, I get to track my target on Major Nights. If I track them using an ability that needed them to match sign, and the sign they submit is the same as their own, I also get told the name of the ability I see them using. The only drawback is that I don't get results for actions that target me.

I correctly Detected a player whom I thought might be scum and might perform a kill during the Minor Night.

I actually would have been tempted to go in harder on this player Today but I was still hoping to have the wagon on me fall away without having to claim so that I could be more sure of getting the investigation away.

Right now I don't want to give away my Detect target and their sign if I don't have to - there's still a chance that I could use it, though the necessity of claiming makes that less likely. But I will if people whom I think are town think that it would help them decide whether or not to get the frak off my wagon.

This absolutely should not have come to this, but here we are.

PEDIT: TITUS, PLEASE LEARN TO READ, I DID NOT SAY I DETECTED SOMEONE LIKELY TO BE KILLED. I DETECTED SOMEONE I THOUGHT WAS LIKELY TO BE CHOSEN TO PERFORM A KILL IF, AS I SUSPECTED, THEY WERE PART OF A MAFIA TEAM. COULD YOU PLEASE, PLEASE ACTUALLY READ THE WORDS THAT I POST AND STUDY WHAT THEY MEAN. FOR ONCE!

If it gets to the point where I'm going to have to be hammered (and it still frakking shouldn't, btw, there are enough people and enough time to save me), please give me a chance to out the sign of my target. I think it's worth doing if I'm not going to survive.

Why do you think this is a good idea?

Because I'm actually confident-ish in the read, and I'd like for him to die soon if I'm lynched. I'll just say it, for the sake of transparency.

I detected Aronis

, who I think is probably lurker scum letting the loud players just fight it out among themselves.

I really, really, really dislike role-based excuses for how people are playing. Because they come a lot more often from scum than town. I also think given your stated reads and how weak all your scumreads are that this really is just an excuse for playing in a way that people are finding scummy

That's not quite what I'm trying to say. I'm not trying to excuse my whole play - the only difference to how I would have played this as a VT, I suspect, is that I would have just sat on Aronis since the end of the Minor Day. This is just to explain why I haven't pushed Aronis

and that if you honestly think that someone outside of that is LIKELY enough to be scum that you can make a better case than your previous one throwing darts at ActionDan, you should be making that case.

You can tell from my reads list that Aronis is my strongest scumread but I don't really have anything to push - it's just the fact that he's probably generic lurker scum - so I got a bit too enamored with finding something else to do and taking advantage of my detect to hit him at night. In a game where I can't always expect my night actions to work even if I target the right people, having the advantage of definitely being able to track a suspect and therefore lynching somebody else was really appealing.

Also, implying you're worth protection right now to me sounds basically deluded.

I have a powerful pro-town role, and if I survive this wagon then it'll be because people believe that I'm town - because, look at ActionDan, it's not just going to be a formality based on claim alone - so at that point those are the ingredients for someone being worth protection, yes.

quick tell me if you want Aronis's sign, I'm not sure

@CDB...did you ask hito what a track would return as a result to any actions that didn't go through because of sign shenanigans? No result? Or no response?

If you mean 'what would happen if my target submitted an incorrect sign?' then no, I actually haven't. I'd sort of assumed that a failure to match sign means you technically don't use an action, but you bringing it up makes me realise that I don't have a particular reason for that to be true instead of any other possible interpretation. I will ask hito about it.

Confirmed: I get the result even if my target incorrectly matched sign.

If all CDB has to do is match a sign to get his ability to go off, there's zero reason for his ability not to go off tonight.

CDB detect minor night one. Gets wrong sign.
CDB attempt major night one. Wrong sign.
CDB then should know Aronis's sign.

If CDB fails to check Aronis, then either CDB or Aronis is likely scum with a remote possibility of a roleblocker.

What are you talking about? I got Aronis's sign on Minor Night 1.

CDB knows Aronis's sign and gets a result even if target fails to match sign.

[Titus]

*deep breath*
Aronis could be scum or town who didn't make an action Major N1.
That is the alternative situation that CDB and I are referencing.

Then CDB gets a target went nowhere.

In a non-hito game this is true. But in Hito's games he leaves more room for error. He doesn't give trackers the explicit knowledge to know they were roleblocked with a no result response.

Hito groups no result if you get roleblocked with no result if the target goes nowhere

Maybe we should clarify this.

[Cheetory6]

Unless your role states otherwise, I will not distinguish between "no result", "roleblocked", and "did not match sign" for why a particular ability returns no result.

[Titus]

Still think the boon should be given to Mastina as she can just heal CDB or TTH and we would get the same info anyway.

[Oversoul]

Are we all on the same page now? Should probably link Titus to that post Cheetory.

[ActionDan]

Yes page 186

[Gammagooey]

ugggh

this boon has so much potential downside.

actually

Boon: Oversoul

[Gammagooey]

i do not support giving the boon to people who have been forced to claim. (cdb and mastin)

oversoul looks town and was one of the god-tier town of ffery's read list and is probably widely town-read enough for it to actually happen.

[Gammagooey]

and oversoul you are not allowed to say anything about whether or not you are "okay" with being booned

NO SOFTCLAIMS FOR A BETTER FUTURE

[Oversoul]

But 2 of my teammates are dead already and we need something to read

[Gammagooey]

every single one of my teammates are not only dead but have all been lynched and have all flipped town.

and uh there's plenty to read

go reread the past 180 pages and come back or something

it probably won't be helpful but there's a chance that you absorb so much information that you reach enlightenment and become a messiah

that'd be nice