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Post Post #50 (ISO) » Fri May 02, 2014 4:25 pm

Post by Paschendale »

You should stop changing which numbers you're talking about then. You have since added 2 and 4 to your list (for no given reason except that I am calling bullshit on you, but did so after your original four), and didn't add 7 because that was already shot down. In 17, you were specifically analyzing those with the most connections. Why can't you even stick to your own story?
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Post Post #51 (ISO) » Fri May 02, 2014 4:31 pm

Post by beastcharizard »

If you look at my first post you will see that 2 and 4 are the two most common numbers that occured. So you should be able to infer that I would also think they are likely to be scum. I didn't go after them at first because I believed the number 5, 6 and 11, 13 gave a greater chance of actual success do to the fact that they are the only ones of which can hit the nodes of 8 and 9.
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Post Post #52 (ISO) » Fri May 02, 2014 4:34 pm

Post by beastcharizard »

Also, when did I say anything about the most connections in post 17? For real show me where I said the people with the most connections are scum. I never once said that and I will not say that. You are either horribly misrepresenting what I said or are misunderstanding something.

I did put the nodes everyone is connected to into simple terms though so maybe that is what you are getting at.
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Post Post #53 (ISO) » Fri May 02, 2014 4:45 pm

Post by Porkens »

In post 39, Nobody Special wrote:
In post 28, Porkens wrote:The true bent nail of the thread so far is this, though:
In post 6, Nobody Special wrote:Pssh. Scum could be all on one side or the other.
To come in and only say that prickles me in the wrongest of ways.
Oh, we haven't met yet. You'd be surprised how else I can prickle you in the wrongest of ways.

I have a unique playstyle. You'll get used t it.

Or not. :cool:
So edgy.
In post 40, StrangerCoug wrote:VOTE: beastcharizard

Don't get me wrong—I'm all for breaking setups to pieces—but your insistence on "Hey, scum has to be in these nodes" instead of actually being productive is doing nothing to get us off the ground.
Well, it kind of has though.

Beast, you are legitimately confusing me. If you don't think the people with the most connections are scum, why do you want to lynch within that group?
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Post Post #54 (ISO) » Fri May 02, 2014 5:10 pm

Post by beastcharizard »

The people I want to lynch at this time do not have the most connections. I want to lynch between 5, 6, 11, and 13. Would I object to a 2 or 4 lynch? No I wouldn't because they occur the most times in what I did.

Lets keep in mind the people have to be scummy for them to be lynched too. This isn't some ignore how people play and just lynch these numbers strategy. If my lynch pool are the most town players then obviously I am not going to want to lynch them just because of my theory. Until the prove they are town though or at least show it they are all viable lynches in my opinion.

Would it be less confusing if I used names instead of numbers?
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Post Post #55 (ISO) » Fri May 02, 2014 5:21 pm

Post by tman2nd »

In post 54, beastcharizard wrote:The people I want to lynch at this time do not have the most connections. I want to lynch between 5, 6, 11, and 13. Would I object to a 2 or 4 lynch? No I wouldn't because they occur the most times in what I did.

Lets keep in mind the people have to be scummy for them to be lynched too. This isn't some ignore how people play and just lynch these numbers strategy. If my lynch pool are the most town players then obviously I am not going to want to lynch them just because of my theory. Until the prove they are town though or at least show it they are all viable lynches in my opinion.

Would it be less confusing if I used names instead of numbers?
I wasn't liking Char's theory until he said this. This seems reasonable. I don't think that's the way the scum kill works, but char seems more like town after this post.

On the other hand, I don't like the way sns has been playing. He transitions from voting because of setup speculation reasons to voting someone for doing what was just doing earlier. I also don't like the suggestion to go back to RVS. There is to much to go off of right now.

VOTE: snscompt1
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Post Post #56 (ISO) » Fri May 02, 2014 5:23 pm

Post by tman2nd »

Oh, and Aegor is a townread of mine.
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Post Post #57 (ISO) » Fri May 02, 2014 5:23 pm

Post by kunkstar7 »

:: VoteCount 1x0 ::


snscompt1 (4)
-
Aegor, SiX, RedCoyote, tman2nd

beastcharizard (2)
-
StrangerCoug, Paschendale

cxinlee (1)
-
snscompt1

Aegor (1)
-
beastcharizard


Not Voting (5)
-
Nobody Special, idk, cxinlee, Porkens, Snarky


With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.


Deadline for Day One is in (expired on 2014-05-16 14:09:09).


In post 22, Aegor wrote:
@Mod: Has this game been checked for balance?
The game has been checked for balance.
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Post Post #58 (ISO) » Fri May 02, 2014 6:25 pm

Post by Aegor »

@Mod: Thanks!


I hope the mod's response has put this matter to rest.
In post 41, beastcharizard wrote:The people I want to lynch are the people who don't like my theory. What are the chances of that?
If you are scum, very high. If you are town, too high.
Also, like I have said it is a theory and it is the only one we have.
That does not make it better than no theory.
I also said I might not have gotten all of the possible combinations. Lastly I said it was most likely for the scum to be in those 2 pairs of people. You aren't explaining why it is bad you are just saying it is bad.
Because you have not presented a compelling case that the scum are more likely to be in any set of nodes than any other set of modes. Perhaps subsequent evidence will change that, but we have absolutely no flips and no information upon which to base any setup speculation. Therefore we should not engage in it, period.
In post 45, beastcharizard wrote:Aegor is saying lets ignore what I have said and just pretend this is a normal game. This isn't a normal game so doing what normally happens isn't going to help.
This is such crap I do not even know how to respond. Are you saying that standard scumhunting somehow does not apply to this game? Do you expect to receive divine messages or get beamed information (cf. Philip K. Dick) about the setup? The mod has stated the game is balanced. Therefore it is obviously not able to be broken on Day 1 via setup spec.
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Post Post #59 (ISO) » Fri May 02, 2014 6:35 pm

Post by Nobody Special »

In post 54, beastcharizard wrote:Lets keep in mind the people have to be scummy for them to be lynched too.
This isn't some ignore how people play and just lynch these numbers strategy.
If my lynch pool are the most town players then obviously I am not going to want to lynch them just because of my theory. Until the prove they are town though or at least show it they are all viable lynches in my opinion.
Oh, really?
In post 17, beastcharizard wrote:2 out of the numbers 5, 6, 11, 13 have to be scum in order for my theory to be correct.
It is my belief that we should lynch between these people.
No mention whatsoever about inherent towniness or lack thereof.
In post 19, beastcharizard wrote:It is my opinion that we should lynch between those 4 people. This isn't out guess the mod this is logic. The scum have to be able to target every player in the game or else the game would be unbalanced.
If there is a player the scum can't target with an action that would mean the player HAS to be lynched.
Lynching is controlled by the town and is the only guaranteed power which we have. Making a town player only kill-able by a town power wouldn't be fair.
Again, forced lynching according to position/number/relation, nothing about that slot's play.

Vote: beast
....what?



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Post Post #60 (ISO) » Fri May 02, 2014 6:46 pm

Post by Aegor »

VOTE: Nobody Special
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Post Post #61 (ISO) » Fri May 02, 2014 6:50 pm

Post by tman2nd »

I was about to post that NS just made a good point. The post that I liked from char is actually inconsistent, so I'm removing my townread on char and replacing it with a scumread.

But suddenly, naked vote on NS! Why?
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Post Post #62 (ISO) » Fri May 02, 2014 8:03 pm

Post by idk »

Really not liking Charizard's idea here. I know it's already been said, but by saying that you want to lynch one of 4 people, you are significantly lowering our chance of lynching scum. At the same time, it makes it look like you are putting a good amount of effort into scumhunting, trying to look pro-town. Overall it seems really scum-motivated.

Sns's play looked good up until he said to go back to RVS. Why would we go back to RVS when we already have discussion going on? I've played a few games with sns offsite (with a different username, though, tee hee), so I'm kinda using meta here, as he normally tends to have multiple scumreads and switches between them often. With a couple people he could find suspicious already here, him wanting RVS seems really out of character.

Aegor, what's with the Nobody_Special vote? It seems pretty random. Your other posts seem pretty town, though, so no real suspicions there. That being said, I liked N_S's post. He makes a good point.

Just phone-posting here, but I will

VOTE: BeastCharizard
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Post Post #63 (ISO) » Fri May 02, 2014 10:04 pm

Post by snscompt1 »

In post 62, idk wrote:
Sns's play looked good up until he said to go back to RVS. Why would we go back to RVS when we already have discussion going on? I've played a few games with sns offsite (with a different username, though, tee hee), so I'm kinda using meta here, as he normally tends to have multiple scumreads and switches between them often. With a couple people he could find suspicious already here, him wanting RVS seems really out of character.

VOTE: BeastCharizard
Damn! Ive been found out! Youre right. I typically and the Village Idiot, but Im slowly starting to become a better player. Slowly.

I suggested back to RVS because although there is discussion on Charizard, I dont think its a good one. Trying to see the way the game works is part of the game and trying to see whether he is scum or town for trying to debug it isnt helpful since we are supposed to do that. Just not yet I think.

Who are ye offsite?
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Post Post #64 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 12:25 am

Post by Snarky »

Hmm... Aegor's reaction makes me feel charizard may be on something.

VOTE: Aegor
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Post Post #65 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 12:41 am

Post by Snarky »

Oh, and he also got way to many "townreads" for my liking. All he did was arguing setup spec. So, RedCoyote and tman2nd, why is Aegor a townread of yours?
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Post Post #66 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 4:33 am

Post by StrangerCoug »

Nobody Special's post makes me feel like he and I are on exactly the same wavelength. Town. (I like Paschendale, too, though—he brought up some things I didn't think of.)
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Post Post #67 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 5:42 am

Post by Paschendale »

I will join my voice to many others in asking, "Aegor, what's the deal?"
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Post Post #68 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 6:12 am

Post by beastcharizard »

In post 59, Nobody Special wrote:
In post 17, beastcharizard wrote:2 out of the numbers 5, 6, 11, 13 have to be scum in order for my theory to be correct.
It is my belief that we should lynch between these people.
No mention whatsoever about inherent towniness or lack thereof.
You are right. After 14 other posts I should have a clear read on every player in the game. I guess I just wasn't paying attention enough.
In post 62, idk wrote:Really not liking Charizard's idea here. I know it's already been said, but by saying that you want to lynch one of 4 people, you are significantly lowering our chance of lynching scum. At the same time, it makes it look like you are putting a good amount of effort into scumhunting, trying to look pro-town. Overall it seems really scum-motivated.
Those are the people I would like to lynch between. As much as I would like to, it doesn't look like I am leading town right now so I am not dictating the whole towns lynch pool. There are many games where people want to lynch someone and that doesn't happen until later in the game. Why is it scummy for me to narrow down my own personal lynch pool? Also if my theory is correct we have a 50/50 shot of hitting scum in my lynch pool compared to the unknown chances of hitting scum if we just lynch anyone. You also have a 0% chance of hitting scum if you lynch me.

Finally, how is it scum motivated to try to break the game or to figure out the scum by the nodes?
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Post Post #69 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 6:52 am

Post by Nobody Special »

In post 64, Snarky wrote:Hmm... Aegor's reaction makes me feel charizard may be on something.

VOTE: Aegor
You're gonna have to walk me through this, step by step.
....what?



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Post Post #70 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 6:56 am

Post by Nobody Special »

In post 68, beastcharizard wrote:
In post 59, Nobody Special wrote:
In post 17, beastcharizard wrote:2 out of the numbers 5, 6, 11, 13 have to be scum in order for my theory to be correct.
It is my belief that we should lynch between these people.
No mention whatsoever about inherent towniness or lack thereof.
You are right. After 14 other posts I should have a clear read on every player in the game. I guess I just wasn't paying attention enough.
You are deliberately misquoting me and also (I think) deliberately misundrstanding what I said. The original quote (meant to be taken as a whole, not parceled out like some parceled-out thing):
Spoiler: Original quote
In post 59, Nobody Special wrote:
In post 54, beastcharizard wrote:Lets keep in mind the people have to be scummy for them to be lynched too.
This isn't some ignore how people play and just lynch these numbers strategy.
If my lynch pool are the most town players then obviously I am not going to want to lynch them just because of my theory. Until the prove they are town though or at least show it they are all viable lynches in my opinion.
Oh, really?
In post 17, beastcharizard wrote:2 out of the numbers 5, 6, 11, 13 have to be scum in order for my theory to be correct.
It is my belief that we should lynch between these people.
No mention whatsoever about inherent towniness or lack thereof.
In post 19, beastcharizard wrote:It is my opinion that we should lynch between those 4 people. This isn't out guess the mod this is logic. The scum have to be able to target every player in the game or else the game would be unbalanced.
If there is a player the scum can't target with an action that would mean the player HAS to be lynched.
Lynching is controlled by the town and is the only guaranteed power which we have. Making a town player only kill-able by a town power wouldn't be fair.
Again, forced lynching according to position/number/relation, nothing about that slot's play.

Vote: beast

In post 68, beastcharizard wrote: Finally, how is it scum motivated to try to break the game or to figure out the scum by the nodes?
Scum have a vested interest in misleading the town; if you have information that you know makes this theory of yours wrong, it would be in your interest to push it on the town so they go in the wrong direction.
....what?



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Post Post #71 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 7:06 am

Post by beastcharizard »

When quoting multiple things if there are text in between the quotes I assume the text only applies to said quote. If you put them all together then text at the bottom that would mean you are talking about all the quotes at the same time.

In I say that I won't lynch them if they are town. That is before the other two posts that you quoted. Are you just ignoring that post?

The last part of your post is so WIFOM.

What if you are scum and know my theory is correct and are trying to get my lynched because of it? Those types of statements/questions helps nothing and helps no one.
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Post Post #72 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 7:20 am

Post by Nobody Special »

You just keep changing your story, I'll get the rope.

And it's laughable how you say that MY answer to YOUR question is "so WIFOM." And then you try to turn it around to make ME look like scum.

Yeah, eat rope.
....what?



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Post Post #73 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 7:47 am

Post by Aegor »

In post 61, tman2nd wrote: But suddenly, naked vote on NS! Why?
In post 62, idk wrote:Aegor, what's with the Nobody_Special vote? It seems pretty random.
In post 67, Paschendale wrote:I will join my voice to many others in asking, "Aegor, what's the deal?"
I admit that I cannot see the confusion; the reason for my vote seems perfectly obvious to me.

BC is attempting setup spec/outguessing the mod. This attempt is misguided and anti-town. Yet nothing in BC's posts suggest any actual knowledge of the setup, nor do I detect any nefarious intent in any of his posts. He just seems to be pushing a bad idea.

On the other hand, NS completely misrepped BC by suggesting that he would lynch slots regardless of whether the people in them are scummy ("No mention whatsoever about inherent towniness or lack thereof."). This is just factually inaccurate, as BC has said, because he stated that he would not lynch people he really thought were town, etc. Moreover, jumping on BC is just lazy because his idea is bad. NS did not actually explain why BC's idea was truly scummy, nor did he point out any legitimate scumminess in BC's posting. His only argument depends on a selective reading of BC's posts, and he has maintained in his last post that BC is changing his story, which is simply not true.
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Post Post #74 (ISO) » Sat May 03, 2014 7:54 am

Post by Paschendale »

In post 73, Aegor wrote:On the other hand, NS completely misrepped BC by suggesting that he would lynch slots regardless of whether the people in them are scummy ("No mention whatsoever about inherent towniness or lack thereof."). This is just factually inaccurate, as BC has said, because he stated that he would not lynch people he really thought were town, etc. Moreover, jumping on BC is just lazy because his idea is bad. NS did not actually explain why BC's idea was truly scummy, nor did he point out any legitimate scumminess in BC's posting. His only argument depends on a selective reading of BC's posts, and he has maintained in his last post that BC is changing his story, which is simply not true.
I wouldn't call that a misrep. Pushing for lynches based on setup spec is exactly what Charizard was doing. Charizard has also changed his story, or rather, changed the results that his supposed mathematical ideas give.
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