- You could speed it up and tell me which part you think is wrong
I voted you for two reasons: trying to herd votes onto slandaar and because ThAd looks like he distrusts you. Not merely because you wanted to lynch Slandaar.
5096
- Maybe, maybe not. But, it didn't take place. I gave my full list of players, my positions on them, and why I would want them dead/alive. I got a list of people he was thinking of shooting and a CTD read. I would think that if he thought I was town, we'd talk, and if he thought I was scum he'd bait me/draw out more info/etc.
I'm not sure I follow this. Are you trying to say something about how you think ThAd perceives you?
5097
-
Indeed. I feel like you're oversimplifying what I'm saying all the way through this discussion, as well as cast nuanced statements into black/white, yes/no terms.
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:09 am
by Cephrir
note to self: reread bulba's argument with nero cain because of reasons
- Maybe, maybe not. But, it didn't take place. I gave my full list of players, my positions on them, and why I would want them dead/alive. I got a list of people he was thinking of shooting and a CTD read. I would think that if he thought I was town, we'd talk, and if he thought I was scum he'd bait me/draw out more info/etc.
I'm not sure I follow this. Are you trying to say something about how you think ThAd perceives you?
5097
-
Indeed. I feel like you're oversimplifying what I'm saying all the way through this discussion, as well as cast nuanced statements into black/white, yes/no terms.
I'm actually trying to figure out how he perceives me, and if he's the vig. If he calls me scum, then I can expect to die or at least not bother QT posting. If he thinks I'm town I'd expect talking & scumhunting. If he's unsure, I'd expect talking and scumhunting.
If he's scum, then I'd expect he's not the vig. I was hoping to have this proved conclusively last night, but it didn't happen.
Still sticking with my initial replace-in impressions of town, but now trying to reconcile his motivations as town vig with my expectations.
I want it simplified, so your stance can definitively be determined for posterity.
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:12 am
by Desperado
So...everything points to Thad's claim be fake but you're going to trust your initial impressions anyway?
- Maybe, maybe not. But, it didn't take place. I gave my full list of players, my positions on them, and why I would want them dead/alive. I got a list of people he was thinking of shooting and a CTD read. I would think that if he thought I was town, we'd talk, and if he thought I was scum he'd bait me/draw out more info/etc.
I'm not sure I follow this. Are you trying to say something about how you think ThAd perceives you?
5097
-
Indeed. I feel like you're oversimplifying what I'm saying all the way through this discussion, as well as cast nuanced statements into black/white, yes/no terms.
I'm actually trying to figure out how he perceives me, and if he's the vig. If he calls me scum, then I can expect to die or at least not bother QT posting. If he thinks I'm town I'd expect talking & scumhunting. If he's unsure, I'd expect talking and scumhunting.
If he's scum, then I'd expect he's not the vig. I was hoping to have this proved conclusively last night, but it didn't happen.
Still sticking with my initial replace-in impressions of town, but now trying to reconcile his motivations as town vig with my expectations.
I want it simplified, so your stance can definitively be determined for posterity.
Like I don't think you meant to do it but this is the best case for Thadscum that's been presented all game.
- Maybe, maybe not. But, it didn't take place. I gave my full list of players, my positions on them, and why I would want them dead/alive. I got a list of people he was thinking of shooting and a CTD read. I would think that if he thought I was town, we'd talk, and if he thought I was scum he'd bait me/draw out more info/etc.
I'm not sure I follow this. Are you trying to say something about how you think ThAd perceives you?
5097
-
Indeed. I feel like you're oversimplifying what I'm saying all the way through this discussion, as well as cast nuanced statements into black/white, yes/no terms.
I'm actually trying to figure out how he perceives me, and if he's the vig. If he calls me scum, then I can expect to die or at least not bother QT posting. If he thinks I'm town I'd expect talking & scumhunting. If he's unsure, I'd expect talking and scumhunting.
If he's scum, then I'd expect he's not the vig. I was hoping to have this proved conclusively last night, but it didn't happen.
Still sticking with my initial replace-in impressions of town, but now trying to reconcile his motivations as town vig with my expectations.
Where on day 4 did you first allude to these misgivings?
I want it simplified, so your stance can definitively be determined for posterity.
Your version of simplification is highly and I believe deliberately inaccurate. I'd break out the "m" word but it's overused to the point of meaninglessness.
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:21 am
by PeregrineV
In post 5104, Desperado wrote:So...everything points to Thad's claim be fake but you're going to trust your initial impressions anyway?
The revelation in the QT seemed sincere, and I could see not shooting the first few days. So far, nothing has concretely pointed to his claim being fake & Overoul's role adds to legitimacy, so yes.
- Maybe, maybe not. But, it didn't take place. I gave my full list of players, my positions on them, and why I would want them dead/alive. I got a list of people he was thinking of shooting and a CTD read. I would think that if he thought I was town, we'd talk, and if he thought I was scum he'd bait me/draw out more info/etc.
I'm not sure I follow this. Are you trying to say something about how you think ThAd perceives you?
5097
-
Indeed. I feel like you're oversimplifying what I'm saying all the way through this discussion, as well as cast nuanced statements into black/white, yes/no terms.
I'm actually trying to figure out how he perceives me, and if he's the vig. If he calls me scum, then I can expect to die or at least not bother QT posting. If he thinks I'm town I'd expect talking & scumhunting. If he's unsure, I'd expect talking and scumhunting.
If he's scum, then I'd expect he's not the vig. I was hoping to have this proved conclusively last night, but it didn't happen.
Still sticking with my initial replace-in impressions of town, but now trying to reconcile his motivations as town vig with my expectations.
Where on day 4 did you first allude to these misgivings?
I want it simplified, so your stance can definitively be determined for posterity.
Your version of simplification is highly and I believe deliberately inaccurate. I'd break out the "m" word but it's overused to the point of meaninglessness.
So are you also objecting to my attempts to get you to simplify and clarify? Apparently you want me to use the question-answer-question technique since you're not exactly being clear with your answers.
So, which part is inaccurate?
- Maybe, maybe not. But, it didn't take place. I gave my full list of players, my positions on them, and why I would want them dead/alive. I got a list of people he was thinking of shooting and a CTD read. I would think that if he thought I was town, we'd talk, and if he thought I was scum he'd bait me/draw out more info/etc.
I'm not sure I follow this. Are you trying to say something about how you think ThAd perceives you?
5097
-
Indeed. I feel like you're oversimplifying what I'm saying all the way through this discussion, as well as cast nuanced statements into black/white, yes/no terms.
I'm actually trying to figure out how he perceives me, and if he's the vig. If he calls me scum, then I can expect to die or at least not bother QT posting. If he thinks I'm town I'd expect talking & scumhunting. If he's unsure, I'd expect talking and scumhunting.
If he's scum, then I'd expect he's not the vig. I was hoping to have this proved conclusively last night, but it didn't happen.
Still sticking with my initial replace-in impressions of town, but now trying to reconcile his motivations as town vig with my expectations.
Where on day 4 did you first allude to these misgivings?
I want it simplified, so your stance can definitively be determined for posterity.
Your version of simplification is highly and I believe deliberately inaccurate. I'd break out the "m" word but it's overused to the point of meaninglessness.
So are you also objecting to my attempts to get you to simplify and clarify? Apparently you want me to use the question-answer-question technique since you're not exactly being clear with your answers.
So, which part is inaccurate?
I am objecting to your oversimplifications because they have been inaccurate. My post 5101 is a clear and accurate correction of yours.
I can see a town motivation in trying to clarify things. I cannot see a town motivation in simplifying things to the point where they are obviously wrong. Your trust=townread/mistrust=scumread=vig-kill is an example of simplifying to the point of being obviously wrong. As was your statement that I voted you because you wanted to lynch Slandaar.
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:01 am
by ffullisade
Nacho, you around?
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:09 am
by PeregrineV
In post 5099, mastin2 wrote:I'll see if I can make something productive out of this post.
Mastin's summary of this game:
21 Nice town, I'll take it.
14 (Crowd) Start the game already!
13 Sure, blame it on your isp.
24 (Heavy Brittish accent) Dadgum.
26 (frantic) The wonder, the wonderthewonderthe--noooooo!
22 Quit posting!
30 Wololo...
27 You played 200 hours to die like
this
?!?
28 (Laughing, course voice) You should see ze oder threads.
15 Don't point at me...
17 (It is good to be the mod.)
You're the mod in this game....
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:12 am
by PeregrineV
Don't think I'm wrong about your reasons- it looks like they changed.
ffullisade wrote:I am objecting to your oversimplifications because they have been inaccurate. My post 5101 is a clear and accurate correction of yours.
I can see a town motivation in trying to clarify things. I cannot see a town motivation in simplifying things to the point where they are obviously wrong. Your trust=townread/mistrust=scumread=vig-kill is an example of simplifying to the point of being obviously wrong. As was your statement that I voted you because you wanted to lynch Slandaar.
How can I simplify something to the point that it's wrong?
In post 4773, PeregrineV wrote:The fact that neither of these are reaching full majority bugs me.
@Mastin- I hate deadline lynches. Just so you know.
<<< Would you rather have a failure to reach majority result in a no-lynch today? How 'bout day one? This game's long enough as it is already, no-lynching would make it go on for even longer. Plus...If you couldn't tell...I hate deadline no-lynches, just so you know. >>>
@Slandaar-I searched your Iso for "Crash" and "CTD" and QT, just to see if you mentioned anything regarding it.
You didn't, except to say Crash is town a few times.
Since I don't know why you feel this way, it's either real, or artificial.
Since your cases on other players seem artificial, this townread is looking the same way too. How is it not "worth" your time to explain why your neighbor is town?
Requesting ThAd, ArcAngel, Bacde or Desp moves their vote to Slandaar.
Hey Peregrine why were you working so hard to herd votes onto Slandaar yesterday?
CTD wrote:I think it's hilarious that you're questioning the fact that I moved my vote off of you and onto the guy you're trying to lynch tough.
Why? I've always considered that a town tell. If Nero was worried about Bulba being lynched after you put your vote on him, he would have unvoted. Instead he's analysing other peoples votes on that wagon.
Please tell me that's not the only thing you've taken away from my post, you've managed to quote about the least important sentence from it. To say that he's analyzing my vote against Bulba is a stretch. To call such a throwaway question a town tell in the face of everything else he's done is a bigger stretch. Aren't you the least bit bothered by his play as outlined in the rest of my post?
What's your read on Bulba?
--------------------------
In post 5061, Bulbazak wrote:I was burned yesterday after being so sure that Slandaar would flip scum. I'm not too keen to stick my hand back in the fire today. Also, between the two, Nero is the more social threat, while all Seanald does is lurk, sheep, and occasionally stir the pot.
Does your scumread on Seanald stem solely from your neighborhood spec? This is something that's bothering me about your list of reads, it still seems to be informed heavily by your neighborhood theory but you're not willing to vote according to said theory, which is giving you an awful lot of gray area inbetween what you say and what you do.
Also, your argument here that Seanald is the more harmless out of the two reads as a rather cheap excuse to me, considering how paramount his flip allegedly is for several of your other reads. I don't even know what "social threat" is supposed to mean here.
-----------------------
Ffullisade, it seems to me like your case against PV largely depends on Bulba flipping scum. At least your primary reason for suspecting him (herding votes onto Slandaar) does in my opinion. Please consider moving your vote there.
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:25 am
by PeregrineV
In post 5114, ffullisade wrote:You've continually recast my reasons as "because you wanted to lynch Slandaar" rather than "because you tried to herd votes onto Slandaar."
So I was attempting to herd votes on Slandaar to NOT get him lynched?
Finish this sentence "because you tried to herd votes onto Slandaar" because _____________________.
In post 5114, ffullisade wrote:You've continually recast my reasons as "because you wanted to lynch Slandaar" rather than "because you tried to herd votes onto Slandaar."
So I was attempting to herd votes on Slandaar to NOT get him lynched?
Finish this sentence "because you tried to herd votes onto Slandaar" because _____________________.
1. A number of players voted him, made cases and wanted to get him lynched.
2. You voted him, made cases and wanted to get him lynched.
2a. You called players out and asked them to move their votes to him.
3. My vote is on you, not one of the other players who voted him, made cases and wanted to get him lynched.
----------------------------
Nacho, I think I've seen enough. Do you have meta to the effect that peregrine acts dumb as a post as town when someone puts a vote on him?
No, I've been suspecting him since his IIoA on d2, where he didn't come up with any reads until
after
I pointed it out.
In post 5116, CrashTextDummie wrote:
Also, your argument here that Seanald is the more harmless out of the two reads as a rather cheap excuse to me, considering how paramount his flip allegedly is for several of your other reads.
His flip would only be paramount in substantiating my neighborhood spec. As far as actual reads, his flip really doesn't do much in the grand scheme of things.
Nero is more active than Seanald, and therefore more influential and harmful to town. He's also the most likely to get away if not pressed. Seanald has no original thought of his own, which means he is not harming the town to the extent that Nero is. Seanald can wait. Nero needs to be lynched.
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:55 am
by CrashTextDummie
Bulba, you said you didn't want to poke into the neighborhoods unless there were legitimately reasons to suspect someone:
In post 4912, Bulbazak wrote:There's a small voice in the back of my mind that keeps whispering to me about my neighborhood speculation, which if we find scum in the neighborhoods I still stand by. However, after Slandaar's flip, I really don't want to go aimlessly poking around in the neighborhoods for the sole reason of proving my theory. I want to find scum for actual scummy reasons, not just theory. Therefore, if we go after one of the neighbors for legitimately scummy reasons, and they flip scum, only then will I evaluate given my theory, but until then, it's too dangerous to try on that reason alone, making it more in line with a policy lynch, which I'm not especially a fan of.
You claim to have legitimate reasons to suspect Seanald, but when asked why you're not going after him you said:
In post 5061, Bulbazak wrote:I was burned yesterday after being so sure that Slandaar would flip scum. I'm not too keen to stick my hand back in the fire today.
Which seems rather contradictory to me.
Bulbazak wrote:Nero is more active than Seanald, and therefore more influential and harmful to town. He's also the most likely to get away if not pressed. Seanald has no original thought of his own, which means he is not harming the town to the extent that Nero is. Seanald can wait. Nero needs to be lynched.
Why is someone who's active more harmful to town than a scummy lurker? Someone who's sheeping a harmful wagon is just as bad for the town as someone who's creating and pushing a harmful wagon. Seanald was voting you at the end of yesterday and he's voting you now, so if you were town, you of all people should have some perspective of how harmful he's being.
Your argument for why Nero needs to be lynched before Seanald quite frankly doesn't make any sense.
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:55 am
by CrashTextDummie
Ffullisade, I'm quoting this because I think you might have missed it:
In post 5116, CrashTextDummie wrote:Ffullisade, it seems to me like your case against PV largely depends on Bulba flipping scum. At least your primary reason for suspecting him (herding votes onto Slandaar) does in my opinion. Please consider moving your vote there.
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:05 pm
by Bulbazak
In post 5120, CrashTextDummie wrote:Bulba, you said you didn't want to poke into the neighborhoods unless there were legitimately reasons to suspect someone:
In post 4912, Bulbazak wrote:There's a small voice in the back of my mind that keeps whispering to me about my neighborhood speculation, which if we find scum in the neighborhoods I still stand by. However, after Slandaar's flip, I really don't want to go aimlessly poking around in the neighborhoods for the sole reason of proving my theory. I want to find scum for actual scummy reasons, not just theory. Therefore, if we go after one of the neighbors for legitimately scummy reasons, and they flip scum, only then will I evaluate given my theory, but until then, it's too dangerous to try on that reason alone, making it more in line with a policy lynch, which I'm not especially a fan of.
You claim to have legitimate reasons to suspect Seanald, but when asked why you're not going after him you said:
In post 5061, Bulbazak wrote:I was burned yesterday after being so sure that Slandaar would flip scum. I'm not too keen to stick my hand back in the fire today.
Which seems rather contradictory to me.
Bulbazak wrote:Nero is more active than Seanald, and therefore more influential and harmful to town. He's also the most likely to get away if not pressed. Seanald has no original thought of his own, which means he is not harming the town to the extent that Nero is. Seanald can wait. Nero needs to be lynched.
Why is someone who's active more harmful to town than a scummy lurker? Someone who's sheeping a harmful wagon is just as bad for the town as someone who's creating and pushing a harmful wagon. Seanald was voting you at the end of yesterday and he's voting you now, so if you were town, you of all people should have some perspective of how harmful he's being.
Your argument for why Nero needs to be lynched before Seanald quite frankly doesn't make any sense.
Since when is lurking scum more dangerous to the town than scum that makes waves? Nero can do more damage with his influence than Seanald can, because all Seanald is doing is following others and staying in the shadows. Lurking scum can be countered effectively if identified. Scum such as Nero is more difficult to take care of, because they act like an infection in the entire organism. The longer it takes to get them out, the more townies they take with them. Nero-scum needs to be lynched as soon as possible, or he will never be taken care of, and town will go into endgame with his hand grasped firmly around their throats.
And it's not contradictory to not want to mess around with the neigborhoods again after being burnt badly the previous day, regardless of my read on Seanald. I was sure about my read on Slandaar as well, and look what happened. I'm not keen in going back and revisiting that blunder the next day by diving into the neighborhoods again.
The best analogy would probably be getting in a car accident. You are not exactly gung-ho the next day about getting behind the wheel again. I want to take care of Nero today, and after that, I'll revisit Seanald and the neighborhoods.
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:11 pm
by Amethyst Kitty
could someone be an angel and give me the neighborhood pairings?
<<< The only Angel in this town died last night. Geez, doesn't anybody read the flavor? >>>
